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General Motors discussions

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  • jcgablejcgable Member Posts: 30
    To your point, an associate just had his Acura TL (2003, 26,000 miles) lock up on the freeway, as the transmission shifted instantly and suddenly from 5th to 2nd gear. Nearly killed his wife. This is a widely known problem in the Honda family, with TSBs, extended warranties and class action suits settled. Yet, because this particular TL doesn't fall within the vin numbers of the "affected cars", Acura is refusing to pay for the replacement transmission.

    My 55 year old friend was teaching her young exchange student to drive so she could get her permit with her 2002 TL (different generation), when her transmission shifted from 4th gear to 1st suddenly, the car jolted, and she went over the curb. She barely was able to avoid missing a tree... I'm not saying that this is typical amongst Acura (Honda) Transmissions, but it isn't impossible. Additionally, my ex managed to kill his Honda transmission at 60,000 miles. This is even a little extreme to believe... but it happened. That said, My sister has driven her cavalier for years, constantly shifts into drive while the car is still rolling in reverse, and her transmission is still going strong...

    *knocks on wood*
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Member Posts: 2,770
    From the first paragraph of Car&Driver's article on the '08 CTS:

    "Amazingly, each new product coming down the GM pipeline these days seems to signal that the once-defining beancounter beaurocracy has finally been replaced by a genuine desire to create top notch products. And the latest CTS is the most comprehensively integrated vehicle we've seen yet."

    I've been reading them close to 25 yrs., and that is the most positive thing I've read about GM in a long time. They were really impressed by the car, and while they weren't all that impressed by the manual, they can see why BMW buys the automatic from GM. It's that good.
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    I don't have a GM transmission story. I had both Ford and Honda automatics (one each) go on me. Ford could not be bothered with me. We incredibly arrogant for people with a bum transmission. Honda was just the opposite. Could not have asked for better treatment.

    Both had failures that allowed the vehicle to limp home.

    My best automatic was on an 87 Maxima that had 167K on it when I sold it and everything original in the tranny. I knew of its whereabout up t 200K and all was well.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    they are not radically diffent. They are all soft riding family cars built for highway cruising. As usual you fail to actually explain the basis for your statement. Then again, if you did that it would cut down on your posts drastically. Care to explain why the toyota cars are so much more different than the epsilon cars by GM?

    Well, I don't want to put words in Loren's mouth, but maybe here's a similar analogy...the GM epsilon cars are kind of like identical triplets, all wearing different dresses. Whereas the Toyotas are just sisters...there's a family resemblance but it's not as noticeable. The Camry's the shorter, chunkier sister with kind of a swollen nose. The Avalon is the taller sister. And the ES300 is the sister whose built like a linebacker and has been approached by Hollywood to star as the lead role in an upcoming movie rendition of "Maude" :P
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Member Posts: 2,770
    I think the ES is going to be a little busy for Maude. Read on (from autoblog):

    Lexus cars are regarded as some of the safest on the road, however a new lawsuit against the company could tarnish this reputation. A class action brought about by a Florida law firm alleges that the Lexus ES350 is fitted with a faulty front passenger airbag sensor that could prevent the airbag from triggering in the event of a collision.

    The suit goes on to explain that the defective vehicles are fitted with a weight sensor that gauges the weight of the person in the front passenger seat, but that these sensors have been found to be faulty.

    One representative claims that he tested multiple ES350 vehicles and found them to be defective, as did other customers from across the country. Worse, it claims Toyota was warned about these issues and failed to correct them. The owners want Toyota to recall and repurchase all ES350s, refunds for those that leased the cars, each car to be refitted with a working airbag system, and compensation for any loss of value and costs owners incurred during this process. We'll be watching this one closely

    BTW, sisters, triplets, they're STILL siblings. When you hike their skirts you still see :surprise: :surprise: :surprise: (OK, that's just wrong, I know)
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    Great!

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    IIRC the Avalon is built on an extended previous Camry chassis--called all new Avalon at the time by Toyota. The Camry and ES are similar like a before and after picture of a Jenny Craig commercial: one is puffy and the other has lost weight but they both are the same skeleton.

    I recall one poster informing me that Avalon and Camry didn't share a simple part number!!! But they're built on the same chassis according to Edmunds review. :blush: Think whatever you want. ;)

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Well since the Toyota is still the focus of attention here....
    A Camry is 71.2 in. in width, Rear Hip Room is 53.9 in, Rear Leg Room is 38.3 in. and Rear Shoulder Room is 56.9 in. -- compared to Avalon being width of 72.8 in., Rear Hip Room 56.2 in. , Rear Leg Room of 40.9 in. and Rear Shoulder Room of 58.2 in. So those wanting a larger car, get their larger car. It is a different car.

    Compared this to the Saturn Aura: Width is 70.3 in. , Rear Hip Room 52.5 , Rear Leg Room 37.6 , Rear Shoulder Room of 54 in. which is 2.9 in. less than a Camry and 4.2 in. less than an Avalon.

    As for ES compared to Camry, I would not personally pay the difference, but if offered the ES over a Camry I would not pass on the opportunity. Well built cars. with a better interior than a Camry. Of course if you think cars are all the same in this class, you may prefer the first ever G6. :D

    Loren
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Or you could think of the G6, Aura, and Malibu as having a multiple personality disorder, and just thinking they are different.

    I guess I could assume the Saab 9-3 is truly unique. Never assume. Never went into researching the car before buying due to the cars less than average reliability over the years. I hear it is off of the same platform.
    Reports of the Space Shuttle using the same platform however, have to be wrong.
    :D
    Loren
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    I'm talking about under the skirts. The body can be puffed out on one model (ES and AValon) and interior measurements idealized. Underneath. Underneath.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • jcgablejcgable Member Posts: 30
    I think the biggest problem for GM at this point is perception. I'd hate to say it, but I feel as if some of the die-hard Toyota fans are losing steam on some of the many valid arguments that they used to have. Granted, Toyota has a MAJOR coup with the Prius. No one else was willing to gamble on a unique looking hybrid model. Their success (while not totally based on Prius sales) have benefited greatly from the image boost prius has given them. That said, after looking at GM's new offerings, I would say that the only true edge that the Japanese automakers have is perception; and a mild MPG advantage.

    That said, I think that GM needs to hit hard at its' chief rivals. The Malibu needs to TARGET the Camry and prove that it is just as good. They need to showcase the CTS against the 3 series and other competitors. They also need to point out the faults of the other competitors' products to attempt to show that the Japanese brands DO have faults (Crazy, I know).

    Here is my idea:

    image
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Member Posts: 2,770
    That's classic!!!
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Well underneath one finds the tires. And in the case of a base Aura, Korean tires. :surprise:
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Would that be the First Ever CVYMBUO-8 ?

    Very nice, every rendition gets a little finer. The exterior is possibly an improvement on the SATRN-AA, with definitely a more sporting interior.
    A very nice and unassuming design which is non-offensive and blends well with the competition. Nothing which jumps out and grabs you. If you are following in the footsteps, this one pretty much is leaving the same print.
    Loren
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    >Now we have a car that we cannot sell to a retail customer and would lose thousands upon thousands of dollars to wholesale away.

    You're always "on," aren't you.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    What is that quote from, BTW? What car? Hummm?

    To answer question: Yes, lately this is the case.
  • jcgablejcgable Member Posts: 30
    Take Two. I Promise I'm done now. ;)

    The Cadillac CTS ad.

    image
  • jcgablejcgable Member Posts: 30
    I hate grammatical errors. There are a bunch of them in my "ad". Here is the accurate transcript.

    Dear _________________ , (Insert Luxury Automaker Name Here)

    We apologize for overlooking the chapter of the automotive textbook that says that Luxury Sedans should be boring, stuffy, and mundane. To our dismay, we can’t find anything stuffy about our all new 2008 CTS Sedan. The optional Bose Sound system with state of the art iPod integration will set even the most boring music on fire. Our completely redesigned interior, with soft flowing lines and an unmatched standard of quality, is anything but mundane. On top of all of this, our 300 horsepower, 3.6-liter variable-valve-timing V6 engine with direct injection can even make a trip around the block raise the driver’s heart rate... We don’t know what we were thinking. If we had known how cool this car would be in the end, we would have added tacky gold badges or something. We promise we wont do it again.

    ;)
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Oh, man! You should write ad copy! Your ideas are better than most out there! How's this for an idea? Show 'Yotas and Lexi with UPC bar codes substituting for nameplates.
  • 14871487 Member Posts: 2,407
    reread my post, you cant link to articles more than a week old without paying. Go to philly.com and search for it yourself if you don't believe it exists.
  • 14871487 Member Posts: 2,407
    "Then share it with us, because based on how many times I've had to correct your misinterpretations of reviews of GM vehicles in Car & Driver, Automobile, Consumer Reports and Motor Trend, I don't trust what you have to say, and neither should anyone else.

    We are not taking your word for it, because under your standards, any honest criticism of GM is interpreted as GM bashing. "

    reading is fundamental. If you read what I write you might be able to avoid making dubious claims in your responses. I already explained why the article cant be read for free. Go back and reread my post. You havent corrected me on anything. You are completely naive and get all of your opinions from C&D and CR. Come up with your own ideas. To suggest that everything printed about the auto industry or any topic is 100% subjective is beyond foolish. I cant stand people who act like things have to be true because it came from a certain source. Kind of like those who believe anything the government says (about reasons for war or anything else) because "they are the government and they wouldnt lie to us". Grow up and enter the real world and stop defending garbage put out by the press.

    you have rambled on and on defending an editorial that you havent even read but have totally avoided ONE simple fact. Toyota has joined the Big in opposing the drastic CAFE standards. Anyone with common sense would stop the insane argument about Toyota being for fuel economy at all costs and the BIg 3 being obstructionists. The facts DO NOT bare that out. I know facts are not important to you, but they are to me.

    "1. How many hybrids does GM sell?
    2. What percentage of Toyota's sales consist of hybrids and four-cylinder cars? What are the similar figures for GM?
    3. Which company depends on trucks and SUVs for whatever profits it makes? "

    I dont like wasting time trying to explain simple concepts to those who are clueless about the industry. First of all GM doesnt make money in the US period. It makes money from its overseas sales which are mostly cars (many with small engines and diesels), not trucks since trucks arent popular outside of the US. Secondly, we all know GM sells more trucks than Toyota and that is for many reasons. Firstly, GM makes better trucks than Toyota and has been making good trucks for decades when Toyota has only been doing so for a few years. Secondly, Toyota doesnt have enough truck capacity to outsell GM. Thirdly GM would rather sell trucks because they sell for more and thus are better able to cover high wages and legacy costs. If GM had the same cost structure as Toyota they would be happy to sell profitable small cars. They dont so they cant. You also fail to mention that Toyota imports many of its smaller vehicles and the Prius. That kind of proves that they wouldnt make a profit on them if they produced them in the States. Same as GM.

    Dont ask me stupid questions about how many hybrids GM makes. You and I know the answer to that. That doesnt change the fact that Toyota is against the CAFE proposals pushed by extremist in Congress. If Toyota is against them and they are the hybrid leader what does that tell you about how far fetched and expensive the regulations would be? Use common sense.

    "Spend less time at attempted mind reading - you're not very good at it - and more time learning more about the auto industry. "

    LOL! So I can be knowledgable like you? Surely you jest. At what point have I demonstrated any lack of understanding of the industry? If you dont want to see GM go under what exactly do you want? Just curious. Most import fanboys like yourself ignore facts when convenient and then preach doom and gloom about how the Big 3 are going under and deserve to do so. Then we hear about the 70s, CR rankings, how these problems should've been fixed 30 years ago, how all the current management should be fired, how you are angry that unskilled UAW members make more money than you, etc, etc. Same soup warmed over. Oh and then you top it off by saying "I really want Detroit to succeed but they dont make any products that can stand up to Hyundai, much less Honda and I have no choice but to love imports". See, I just saved you a whole lot of trouble.
  • 14871487 Member Posts: 2,407
    Please note the difference (this is a huge problem for many) between shooting holes in biased, flawed, dated GM bashing statements and being unwilling to criticize GM. I have PLENTY of criticism of GM, but I am not one to go for all this "GM is run by idiots and makes no competitive vehicles" crap being pushed here by so many. I also like to keep GM's products in context with the industry as a whole, not just Toyota. Toyota is doing a lot of things better than a lot of people, not just GM. Hell, Toyota is whipping up on Nissan and Honda as well. No auto manufacturer (Asian, American or German) is in a better position than Toyota right now. For the record I am a firm believer that the GM midsize trucks are crap, the Aveo needs better mileage, the Lucerne needs a better base engine and 6 speed autos, the GMT900s should've launched with 6 speeds on at least some models, the H3 should've had a V8 or the I-6 from launch and GM needs navigation in more of its cars. Since I shoot down any and all criticism of GM according to some, its a miracle that I was able to come up with that list.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    Hmmm, I had been pulling for the '08 Malibu, and I thought that the concepts on display at the auto show were pretty attractive. But I just don't think it looks all that great from that angle. The front-end makes me think of an oversized Yaris a bit.

    Did they change the final version's styling any from the concept? Or maybe it just looked better when Chevy had it put up on a pedestal (literally).

    Still, that might just be a bad angle. No car looks great from EVERY angle, unless it's something like a '57 DeSoto or '67 Catalina. :P
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    ...or an '89 Cadillac Brougham!

    Chevy seems to be going with this horizontally split grille theme shared with it's trucks. This isn't new for them. If you look at 1949-54 Chevrolet passenger cars, they pretty much had the same grille theme.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    That front looks a little HHR from the low angle of the shot. And if they move the bowtie to the top rung of the grill it would look like the pig snout of the Camry. I hope they have changed the appearance from that.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    Chevy seems to be going with this horizontally split grille theme shared with it's trucks. This isn't new for them. If you look at 1949-54 Chevrolet passenger cars, they pretty much had the same grille theme.

    Heck, even my '85 Silverado has the split grille thing going on. It also reminds me a bit of some of the Chevies in the 60's and 70's, where there would be a bit of a sub-grille down in the bumper that matched the texture of the upper grille between the headlights. Or on some cars, like the '65 and '72 Chevies, where the fairly slim front bumper bi-sected the grille, creating the illusion of an upper and lower grille.

    I think that sub-grille effect works pretty well on the '08 CTS pictured in the spoof above. But I just don't care for the Malibu's split-grille, with two contrasting shapes. Plus, it has the openings in the lower part of the fascia that just make the overall effect a bit disjointed.

    But, to be fair, I don't find it any less attractive than a Camry or Accord. But among cars in this general size class, I think I like the looks of the Altima, Fusion, and Aura better. In roughly that order.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    Very amusing, your ad copy is better than much of the dreck produced by the GM braintrust in a long time.

    I just hope these new CTS end up without the gold badges and landau tops.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    If enough of us use (abuse?) the language in certain ways long enough, the usage will become correct. The beauty of English. :)

    Grammar and the Peeves that Pet It
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Sometimes you can find articles in Google cache, like this 7/23 editorial from Philly.com that mentions the Prius - link
  • grbeckgrbeck Member Posts: 2,358
    1487: reading is fundamental. If you read what I write you might be able to avoid making dubious claims in your responses. I already explained why the article cant be read for free. Go back and reread my post. You havent corrected me on anything.

    Here are two examples of your past mistakes: saying that Automobile held that the Aura was superior than the Accord, which wasn't true (it said the top-of-the-line version drives at least as well as the Accord), and saying that Car & Driver doesn't like Acuras because they are front-wheel-drive in the near-luxury class, which is odd considering that they have put quite a few Acuras on the magazine's annual Ten Best list.

    1487: You are completely naive and get all of your opinions from C&D and CR. Come up with your own ideas.

    As opposed to viewing, say, an Aura as better than an Accord because you say so?

    1487: To suggest that everything printed about the auto industry or any topic is 100% subjective is beyond foolish.

    True, which is why I haven't done that. On the other hand, if one posits that Car X is superior to Car Y, I, and almost every other poster on this site, need more than "because I said so" to back up this opinion.

    1487: Grow up and enter the real world and stop defending garbage put out by the press.

    There is a difference between "defending the garbage put out by the press" and regarding skeptically your claims that an editorial said something, based on a prior history of selective recall and outright mistakes.

    1487: Toyota has joined the Big in opposing the drastic CAFE standards. Anyone with common sense would stop the insane argument about Toyota being for fuel economy at all costs and the BIg 3 being obstructionists. The facts DO NOT bare that out. I know facts are not important to you, but they are to me.

    First, you haven't given us a date for that article. Toyota only recently joined the Big Three in the fight against higher standards. It's entirely plausible that this editorial was written before Toyota joined the fray.

    Second, I never denied that Toyota is fighting the higher CAFE standards.

    Third, there is still your denial that Toyota is far ahead of GM and everyone else on hybrid technology, and that the 2-3 mpg advantage that Toyota's lineup enjoys compared to GM's lineup is a big difference among full-line manufacturers.

    1487: First of all GM doesnt make money in the US period.

    And most of the losses are driven by their cars. If the truck market tanks, GM is toast in the U.S.

    1487: It makes money from its overseas sales which are mostly cars (many with small engines and diesels), not trucks since trucks arent popular outside of the US.

    We are talking about the U.S.; this is irrelevant.

    1487: Thirdly GM would rather sell trucks because they sell for more and thus are better able to cover high wages and legacy costs.

    Which proves that GM has been focusing too much on trucks, and not enough on cars - not a good strategy in with volatile gas prices.

    1487: Dont ask me stupid questions about how many hybrids GM makes. You and I know the answer to that.

    Then tell us...

    1487: If you dont want to see GM go under what exactly do you want? Just curious.

    That they make better cars and make money while doing it?

    That they stop tantalizing us with great show cars and then expect us to buy the milquetoast products in the showrooms?

    That they stop saying that the exciting new products that will save GM are just around the corner?

    That they stop acting as though they can position a division in the marketplace based on what Bob Lutz says (Buick is a Lexus competitor! No, Buick is a premium American road car! No, it's a floor wax and a dessert topping...oops!)?

    1487: Most import fanboys like yourself ignore facts when convenient and then preach doom and gloom about how the Big 3 are going under and deserve to do so.

    I'm such an import fanboy that there is Ford Focus, built in Wayne, Michigan, by the Ford Motor Company, parked in our driveway.

    Did Michigan secede from the Union while I wasn't watching? Who knew!
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Hope you do not mind but I passed your ad onto somebody who may use it.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Plagued by overcapacity due to slow-moving pickups and SUVs, GM
    finds a bright spot in the demand for its popular new 8-seat cross/utility
    vehicles: the Buick Enclave, GMC Acadia and Saturn Outlook.

    Sales of the trio are outstripping GM’s ability to keep them in stock at
    dealerships, says Anna Kretz, vehicle line executive for the vehicles.

    The Buick Enclave, which went on sale in April, currently has an inventory
    of only 20 days. More than 1,000 Buick dealers don’t even have one in
    stock. “The inventory for Acadia has never been over 30 days since we
    launched,” she says.

    GM delivered a combined 57,397 units of the Outlook, Acadia and Enclave in
    the year’s first half, Ward’s data shows.

    Kretz says sales should be higher in the second half because the Enclave
    didn’t go on sale until April.

    GM recently announced it is launching a third shift at its Delta Township
    plant outside Lansing, MI, in mid-September. But Kretz insists the auto
    maker intends to manage supply closely.

    Should high market demand continue, GM has the option of adding overtime to
    the 3-shift schedule, but it does not want to produce an oversupply of the
    three vehicles, she says.

    The plant can build up to 250,000 units if needed, Kretz says. “It just
    depends on where the demand is.”

    What is particularly gratifying to GM is that more than 40% of buyers of
    the three vehicles are new to the brand. Only 20% of Enclave buyers are
    trading in a Buick,
    Kretz says, which is positioned against mid-luxury CUVs
    such as the Acura MDX, Volvo XC90 and other imports.

    The Acadia and Outlook are positioned against competitors such as the Honda
    Pilot. “We’re getting some customers from the Pilot,” Kretz says.

    The GM CUVs are being sold very well equipped. The average transaction
    price for the Saturn Outlook is $31,000 vs. just under $25,000 for a base
    model. The GMC Acadia’s average transaction price is $33,500 compared with
    just under $30,000 for a base model.

    The Buick Enclave has a base price of about $32,000, but its average
    transaction price is about $37,500, Kretz says.

    The Enclave is seeing the highest take rate on all-wheel drive at 45% of
    sales. The Outlook’s AWD take rate is 30% and the Acadia’s is 40%. Price of
    the AWD option is just under $2,000.


    About 600,000 CUVs were sold industry-wide last year, Kretz says,
    predicting the segment could reach about 800,000 units this year.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Here’s a company-by-company rundown of the good, the bad and the ugly of
    July vehicle sales:

    GENERAL MOTORS
    GM sold 320,935 vehicles in July, down 18.5 percent compared with a year
    ago. Paul Ballew, GM's executive director of Global Market and Industry
    Analysis, rated the automaker’s sales performance as “okay,” considering
    last year’s summer months were boosted by rich incentives. Further, GM’s
    July performance improved from its dismal June.

    The Good:
    GM’s market share hit a high for the 2007 calendar year to date at
    around mid-24 percent;
    GM is spending significantly less on incentives than it did a year ago.
    In July 2007, GM’s Total Cost of Incentives (TCI) calculated by
    Edmunds.com was $3,130 per vehicle, down 30.5 percent from last July’s
    TCI of $4,502.
    GM’s new crossovers – the Buick Enclave, GMC Acadia and Saturn Outlook
    –are selling extremely well;
    Saturn’s new models, including the Aura and Outlook, are successful.

    The Bad:
    GM’s older cars are slow sellers;
    Buick’s car sales are down 28.9 percent;
    Chevrolet Cobalt sales fell 31.1 percent; sales of the Malibu, scheduled
    for replacement this fall, dropped 45.1 percent.

    The Ugly:
    GM’s retail sales plummeted 26 percent from July 2006;
    GM’s full-size pickup truck sales, despite a bit of a rebound from June,
    are down 26.5 percent from a year ago, but 0 percent financing for 60
    months is required to move them;
    GM’s incentives are bound to rise.

    For the year to date, GM has sold 2,243,697 vehicles, down 9.4 percent from
    the first seven months of 2006.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    TOYOTA
    Toyota reported July sales of 224,058 vehicles, a decrease of 3.5 percent
    from July 2006. It was Toyota’s first sales decline in nearly three years.

    Lower sales overall were due to lower sales at the Toyota Division and
    Scion. Toyota sales were 196,917 vehicles, a 4.5-percent decline from a
    year ago. Toyota car sales were down 10.2 percent. Truck sales were up 4.2percent for their best ever July. Lexus had its best ever July of 27,141
    vehicles sold, up 4.9 percent.

    The Good:
    Lexus sales were up 4.9 percent;
    Toyota Prius sales posted their best-ever July with 16,062 sales, up
    50.5 percent over July 2006;
    Tundra hit all-time best-ever record sales of 23,150, thanks to
    record-high incentives;

    The Bad:
    Toyota is not immune to the same economic pressure impacting domestic
    sales; overall sales dropped TK, the first sales decline in three years;
    Corolla sales fell 25.9 percent; Yaris sales dropped 16.5 percent.
    Toyota lowered incentives on both models significantly and will likely
    have to bump them up;
    Camry Hybrid sales were off 13.8 percent. The high price of the Camry
    hybrid has turned off some consumers who have opted for the regular
    Camry, which saw sales rise 3.2 percent in July. Toyota has responded by
    de-contenting and lowering the price of the Camry hybrid for 2008;
    Sales of the new Scion xB are falling short, so far, despite its first
    full month of new model sales. Sales are down -20.7% from July 06.

    The Ugly
    Incentives in the Tundra are forecasted at an all-time high of $6,861
    per vehicle for July, up 31 percent from an already high $5,242 in July
    06;
    Tundra ranks No. 1 among all trucks for the highest incentive.i>
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Hybrid vehicles are on track to achieve record U.S. sales this
    year despite signs consumer interest in hybrids is waning, an auto
    information company said Thursday.

    An estimated 187,000 hybrids were sold in the first six months of 2007,
    accounting for 2.3 percent of all new vehicle sales, according to J.D.
    Power and Associates. Although a slowdown is expected in the second half of
    the year, J.D. Power is forecasting total sales of 345,000 hybrids for
    2007, a 35 percent increase from 2006 when the current record of 256,000
    hybrids were sold.

    The Toyota Prius continues to be the best-selling hybrid model, accounting
    for just more than half of all hybrids sold. J.D. Power said Prius sales
    got a boost this year from incentives of up to $2,000 per vehicle, which
    helped offset a decrease in federal tax breaks for Toyota and Lexus
    hybrids. Toyota Motor Corp. said Wednesday that Prius sales were up 85
    percent in the first seven months of this year compared with the same
    period a year ago.

    Mike Omotoso, senior manager of global powertrain forecasting for J.D.
    Power, said the percentage of people who say they're considering hybrids is
    dropping as buyers realize the vehicles may not save enough fuel to justify
    premiums of up to $3,000.

    “Toyota is realizing that. That's why they're offering incentives,” he
    said.

    Later this year, a two-mode hybrid system developed jointly by General
    Motors Corp., BMW AG and DaimlerChrysler AG will begin appearing in some
    trucks and sport utility vehicles. The system uses a computer to choose
    from thousands of combinations of running on one electric motor, two
    electric motors, a combination of electric motors and the gasoline engine,
    or shutting down some of the gas engine's cylinders.

    Omotoso estimated that the system costs between $6,000 and $10,000, so the
    manufacturers could have a difficult time making money on it unless
    consumers will pay a premium.


    So what will consumers do when they are forced to buy hybrids/lightweight/smaller vehicles/25% price hikes once the 35 mpg kicks in? Bet it is somewhat like the other debacles the government gets when something is forced on them (the consumer) and they really do not want them.
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    Hmmm, I had been pulling for the '08 Malibu, and I thought that the concepts on display at the auto show were pretty attractive. But I just don't think it looks all that great from that angle. The front-end makes me think of an oversized Yaris a bit.

    Think that the front end of new Malibu would look great if that top element were removed and filled in with just plain painted hood. Would hope that effective cooling could be done with remaining lower elements.
  • grbeckgrbeck Member Posts: 2,358
    62vettefp: Saturn’s new models, including the Aura and Outlook, are successful.

    Won't argue about the Outlook, but the Aura is not successful (even though it's a good car). GM set a sales goal of 90,000 for the Aura, and it is nowhere near meeting it. Plus, so far, about 23 percent have gone to fleets.
  • jcgablejcgable Member Posts: 30
    If enough of us use (abuse?) the language in certain ways long enough, the usage will become correct. The beauty of English.

    *Loves It*
  • jcgablejcgable Member Posts: 30
    Of course not. As long as I don't find the exact ad with a Copyright General Motors below it it's not a problem. feel free to pass on my contact information to whomever would use it as well. I have other ideas ramping around in my marketing major brain.
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    What is particularly gratifying to GM is that more than 40% of buyers of the three vehicles are new to the brand. Only 20% of Enclave buyers are trading in a Buick,

    That's not too surprising, since Buick didn't have much in the way of SUVs before now. So what does get traded in on an Enclave?
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    That's not too surprising, since Buick didn't have much in the way of SUVs before now. So what does get traded in on an Enclave?

    ??? Rendevouz, Rainier, Terazza.

    Out of 5 models available at Buick last year 3 were SUV/CUV/Minivan people haulers. And while not huge sellers together they sold 96,000 units in '05 and 71,000 in '06 (US). Compare this to Lexus sales of 140,000 units in '06 with 3 models. So not exactly peanuts. Enclave should be able to sell close to 70,000 units per year.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Or a bit like the front of the current Chevy scheme on a fourth generation Classic Malibu. The fourth gen. wasn't that bad, in a let's get something going like a Camry way, styling. The fifth generation looked best, or cooler in a MAXX version. The sixth generation is more fourth + new gen. grill and lighting. It'll look better than the fifth. Just as the face lift helped Impala with sales, the New Malibu should capture some more customers. Add a sport suspension to an i4 with a stick, or the 3.6V6 with the 6 sp. and it should be entertaining to drive. Or do they plan on making all the models with a firmer feel?

    Read an article about the Aura, somewhere, and they talked about the XE being a softer ride than the XR. I thought they used the same suspension for both models. Was this something imagined - assumed? I have driven both, but not on the same day. The XR has the kick-in-the-pants power and the paddle shift, which may be good for down shifts on tighter turns. Not sure what is gained, if anything, trying to shift through all the gears from a launch.

    Loren
  • 14871487 Member Posts: 2,407
    no one in their right mind would ever say that I said C&D doesnt like Acuras. C&D loves acuras although they do note that RWD is their preference for sports sedans. What are you talking about?

    furthermore, in last years new car issue for Automobile they said the Aura was better looking and more engaging to drive than CAmry or Accord. Look it up for yourself. I assure you I am not misinformed. Next you will be telling me Autoweek didnt really rank the Aura over the Camry in their comparison.

    "As opposed to viewing, say, an Aura as better than an Accord because you say so? "

    No, Automobile and Motorweek (best family sedan was Aura) say so though. Accord V6 and Aura XR have never been directly compared. Also Autoweek compared Aura to camry (which is newer and better than Accord) and chose the lowly Saturn. No, dont take my word for it. In case you have missed it, I usually have some back up for my statements here. Its something you might want to look into.

    "I'm such an import fanboy that there is Ford Focus, built in Wayne, Michigan, by the Ford Motor Company, parked in our driveway"

    company car? Trade it in for a Civic, trust me.

    "And most of the losses are driven by their cars. If the truck market tanks, GM is toast in the U.S. "

    is that supposed to hurt my feelings? I dont get your point with these one liners telling me how close GM is to going under. COmmon sense tells us that GM would prefer if gas werent $3 a gallon and SUV sales werent declining. Trucks cost more and EVERYONE would rather sell more expensive vehicles than cheaper ones. This is why Toyota is spending $100M advertising the gas guzzling Tundra but spends next to nothing on the Prius. How many Prius ads have you seen? Ever thought about why that was?

    "That they make better cars and make money while doing it?

    That they stop tantalizing us with great show cars and then expect us to buy the milquetoast products in the showrooms?

    That they stop saying that the exciting new products that will save GM are just around the corner? "

    you have once again shown your bias and that you are not going to give GM any credit no matter what. Yes, GM has never turned a concept into reality- except for SRX, XLR, Solstice, SSR, H3, etc. You are so right! yes, Gm's actual vehicles pale in comparison to the exciting models offered by Toyota and Hyundai. The C6, Solstice GXP, V series cadillacs, Escalade, H3, XLR, TB SS etc. are all dull vehicles. Why cant GM make the really exciting stuff like the Asian automakers? I see the light! Toyota= exciting styling and great performance while GM=milquetoast models that put you to sleep.

    Yes the good product is "around the corner" because nothing good is for sale now. The lambdas, Vette, XLR, CTS-V, Vue, aura, STS, kappa roadsters, SRX, GMT900s, etc. are not on sale now. We are still waiting for them to arrive. When oh when will those competitive cars show up? And the CTS and Malibu are WAY down the road as well. The nerve of GM with their smoke and mirrors!

    each post reduces your credibility even further. Bottom line, you dont like GM and never will and have no intentions of buying anything they make regardless of merit. Your arguments would make much more sense if this was 2002 instead of 2007. Even haters like C&D are acknowledging GM's progress- check out their review of the CTS for proof.
  • 14871487 Member Posts: 2,407
    When did GM announce sales projections for the Aura? You mentioned this before I believe but I still dont know where these figures are coming from.
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    Even haters like C&D are acknowledging GM's progress- check out their review of the CTS for proof.

    C and D is not a hater.

    Latest issue of Road and Track is complimentary to CTS and Enclave.
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Member Posts: 2,770
    Absolutely!!! I noted the opening paragraph in C&D on the new CTS that was VERY complimentary to GM. I think it's good to see the products coming out every bit as good as the models that debuted at the various car shows this winter. I think GM has realized how serious a predicament they put themselves in, and are doing things to right the ship.
  • chetjchetj Member Posts: 324
    i work at a auto supplier and we havent worked OT since may
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    I was thinking along the same lines as bumpy: I wonder what the #1 model being traded in on an Enclave is...

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • dave8697dave8697 Member Posts: 1,498
    If Aura is at least as good as Accord, then it is exactly tied or better than the Accord. those are the two choices.

    If GM's truck sales don't tank soon, their plans to continue reviving their car business might be too successful and Camcord won't be the only choice. That will suck. Everyone should drive a Camcord and be sending $500 a month to Japan.
  • vodkavodka Member Posts: 2
    First, the aura parts looks better than the Camry and Accord parts, hands down. This isn't even a comparison. Interior.. I'm not sure, I haven't looked at it yet.

    Performanace... 160 hp seems really low for a car in this segment, which both the 4cyl camry and accord have. I'm just going to throw those two versions out the window. Way too underpowered.

    The Aura starts at 220 hp.. albeit it is more expensive than the 4cyl camry / accord, but can you really buy a car in this segment with such a weak engine? My cheap coupe has nearly 160 hp.

    The Aura XR costs $1500 more than the camry 6cyl, and the camry 6cyl has 268 hp at the high end compared to the XR's 252 hp. However, who cares about the high end. The XR can hit 0-60 in just over 6 secs, whereas the camry is 7 seconds. That's what the extra $1500 is for, and a second faster to 60 is definitely worth the money... especially in America where you can only drive 70mph on the freeway legally.

    And... the best part for Americans who have family working for GM... Discount plans! Can't say that about the Japanese car companies.

    So in conclusion.. the exterior looks better and while a bit more expensive, the low end Aura beats the performance of the low end camry/accord. Again, while a bit more expensive, the high end Aura is quicker than the high end camry 0-60, but has less hp at the high end .
This discussion has been closed.