No, sls007. Some of the posts could just be copied. Same thing over and over. And always the last word... No one else has any knowledge to be left alone; any statement always countermanded. It's becoming ???? I've asked one to just ignore my posts for that reason.
The bottom line is if GM can offer progressive styling and quality at a fair price they will survive. Only time will tell. They perhaps on certain models are being to fair thus isn't helping resale value.
It's a year away, I am shocked by the Matrix's numbers also. Who the hell is buying them all? We get 3-4 maybe and then they're gone for a couple of weeks.
I did hear in the Corolla forum that the Matrix/Vibe in Sept was going to get the Camry 2.4L. True or not???? If it does it'll make that even more attractive.
If you are talking about post#1952 that is nothing more than a statement of fact. That's how decisions and informed opinions are made....analyzing facts.
If you were referring to another post I'm sorry it wasnt clear.
This country has been at a disadvantage for more than 5 years. That is one reason why there is little industry left here
It's statements like this that make any reasonable person wonder how anyone can discuss a subject rationally. You do seem to have a very good knowledge of GM products and their good and bad points.
But...
since 1985 the auto industry is 40% bigger and more productive. It's BOOMING... just not in GM's perspective.
since 1995 the US$ has had a 15% currency advantage over all the European countries;
Since 2001 as noted above the US$ and Yen have remain stable versus each other.
Want more... The US Steel industry is the most prodcuctive and innovative in the world!!!! The US steel industry is in it's best cycle ever!!
You may want to think that things are going to hell in a hand basket but in reality they are not. For sure though certain areas are hurting while others are booming. This is capitalism at work and it's all good.
GM spent 5.4 Billion on health care in 2005. 3.7 billion on retirees (hourly and salary) and 1.7 billion on active employees (1.1 million people total).
So that is 3.7 billion that the imports did not have to pay and 3.7 billion out of the GM losses last year.
This was GM's decision back in the late 80's and they knew what they were doing. While the bloom was on the truck/SUV market all was good. Now it's more difficult and all that can be said is that GM/F have to find a solution to past bad decisions. It's noone else's fault.
It(GTO)lasted longer than I thought it would! It was over prices especially next to the Mustang GT. GM and Chrsyler might as well give up trying to outsell the Mustang..it ain't going to happen. Ford has got the hold on that very tight! Long live the Mustang!!
You may want to think that things are going to hell in a hand basket but in reality they are not. For sure though certain areas are hurting while others are booming. This is capitalism at work and it's all good.
I'm not sure where your getting this economic boom from ???? We as a society are adding thousands and thousands more in debt to the credit cards and to the buying of a over inflated real estate market. But hey if that's the way you see the economy in this great country, then more power to ya. :confuse: I'd advise you to get a second opinion and look at midwest states where the majority of manufactoring takes place and the many losses in not just automotive.
The sad thing is the GTO might not be styled as well as the "Stang" but you get alot more car in GTO form than in Mustang trim. $ $31K and change for 400 hp. + a quality interior is a deal. The Holden Manaro/GTO just never caught on in the U.S. :confuse:
Costs, I assume would be high for German makes of cars which are popular here in the States, such as the BMW and Mercedes, yet the cars are around the same price or lower over the last decade. The Euro is now worth more than the US Dollar, yet a starter Mercedes cost less than it did when it was the 190 class. In real dollars adjusted, much less now to buy the German car.
I don't think it is the exchange rates which are the problem.
The right car,as in Chrysler 300 and Magnum, or a Ford Mustang seem to be good selling cars. Chrysler's warranty is now shorter, so I am not sure how that will impact future sales. Maybe a lot of the woes of GM are not having anything to sell that the customer wanted. The CTS and Corvette have a little bit of appeal in their own way, but most of the cars a still kinda bland. People looking for just a point A-B car, will look more at gas mileage, comfort, resale and such. Something which Toyota, and Honda can do quite well. So those drifting into a GM showroom are thinking more of how much less is their car. Yes, it has to be discounted before any consideration is made. Those looking for style, drivers that enjoy the road, or want a little extra style flair will more likely be sucked into the Ford showroom to see the Stang, or into Chrysler to see a 300 or the latest new car. Sure the Solstice is kinda cool, but is hardly seen in a showroom, and is in a very limited market.
Does anyone know what the slogan, " Chevy, An American Revolution," means?
Once again, the question of will the 2006 styling save GM. That is easy -- NO! This doesn't mean a GM, or re-organized GM can not survive. Doesn't mean they are not going to sell cars in China. Just can not believe the current direction of GM and current styles will cut it. Due to the lower quality of some the earlier cars, they need a longer warranty, some way to stabilize the resale value of the cars, and perhaps a National Health Care Plan in USA, as a recovery. After the chapter 11?
The Camaro would be a good starter car to get things going again at Chevy. Make it look like the show car, keep the size and weight down, while offering a 3.6 V6 at a reasonable price, like say $21K. It would have the HP, and with lower weight than a Challenger, say 3,000 to 3,200 # would be a good handling and scooting car. Chrysler and Ford seem to be producing a pony car which is large and heavy for a sports car, so why not go with lighter and more agile? Gas mileage would be great, as would the zero to sixty, in a reasonable priced car. Add a corvette engine for say seven grand more. And upgrade package for those that want all the bells and whistles for say $3K more.
I would have advertised it as a Holden, run race footage on the commercials, and priced it around $30K or less, depending on the options. Sell it through a Saturn Import Dealerships, or perhaps Cadillac. I see SAAB at the dealership, so why not Holden and Opel. Still think they may as well make Saturn an import dealership, as there is nothing at Saturn to really buy, other than the Opels hitting the shore soon.
You said quite a bit. I won't argue with what you said. I for one Loren want a fun GM sport/lux sedan "BMW 3" like car in the mid to high $30's with benchmark Quality and creature features like Acura/Lexus. Will the G8 finally be it ????? I'm praying on it. However the new 07' CTS seems to be good on what little we know. I'm also praying on it too. I'm also praying it get's a really nice interior and the bells and whistles of the STS/DTS.
GM no doubt has done alot of "wrongs" in it's past. It has alot of "making up to do" and therefore perhaps a industry leading warranty would really help resale and consumer confidence.
I for one do like the GTO and will miss it. There was alot of potential for the GTO, and if the redesign would of saw the light of day, perhaps it would of been a "hit". Obviously GM saw it as to much of a risk and thus canceled the 08'
The Camaro I think will be a neat car. I wished they would make a special I-ROC Z-28 edition and forget the "SS" thang for a while. The I-Roc would have somewhat the image appeal of the Shelby. Not as good yes, but better than SS ! :mad:
It's statements like this that make any reasonable person wonder how anyone can discuss a subject rationally. You do seem to have a very good knowledge of GM products and their good and bad points.
But...
since 1985 the auto industry is 40% bigger and more productive. It's BOOMING... just not in GM's perspective.
I was referring to industry as all of US not Auto. As I said very little is still made in this country. Turn anything over and it rarely says made in US. Yes we as a country are buying more and more. The stuff is so inexpensive. When I was a kid we had quite a few toys. today we have a birthday party for my 5 year old and we gt at one party over 20 gifts which is more than we had all together. For $15 you get a lot today. Guess this is great and hopefully it will continue.
since 1995 the US$ has had a 15% currency advantage over all the European countries; Europe is in the same boat we are. Little I buy here says "Made in Europe".
Since 2001 as noted above the US$ and Yen have remain stable versus each other.
Want more... The US Steel industry is the most prodcuctive and innovative in the world!!!! The US steel industry is in it's best cycle ever!!
You may want to think that things are going to hell in a hand basket but in reality they are not. For sure though certain areas are hurting while others are booming. This is capitalism at work and it's all good. I know and thats great. Just seems like it cannot continue unless we somehow as a country turn around. I guess we can always sell corn. We have lots of land.
Just seems like it cannot continue unless we somehow as a country turn around. I guess we can always sell corn. We have lots of land.
My FIL says the Black Sea area of Russia is so rich with fertile farm land that it will make grain/corn prices in the U.S. drop like a rock. He said South America is basically untouched and once they get rolling you can pretty much kiss American Farming goodbye !!!!! So basically American Farmers are getting outsourced too. :surprise:
dis·cus·sion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (d-skshn) n. Consideration of a subject by a group; an earnest conversation. n 1: an extended communication (often interactive) dealing with some particular topic; "the book contains an excellent discussion of modal logic"; "his treatment of the race question is badly biased" [syn: treatment, discourse] 2: an exchange of views on some topic; "we had a good discussion"; "we had a word or two about it" [syn: give-and-take, word]
During a discussion, opinions offered as facts, or outright mistatements, will be corrected.
I believe it was President Harry S. Truman who once said, "If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen."
Thanks for that. It's pretty obvious that some people are heavily invested in these "opinions", even though a quick look at the actual facts proves them well off the mark.
The dollar has half the value against the yen that it did twenty years ago. If a strong dollar was a primary reason why we buy imported cars from Japan, then this long-term trend of the sliding dollar should have killed that, but it didn't.
Yet we want the cars, anyway (including the "Japanese" cars built in the USA.) Is there something in the water, or perhaps there's a more rational explanation?
In case some or maybe all of you have not noticed, when your reply to someone's post, a link is included in your post to that post. So there is no need to copy the previous post into your post, wasting computer space.
It was over prices especially next to the Mustang GT.
Keep in mind that the GTO isn't so much competition for the Mustang, but for the GT-500, which will be similarly priced and most likely sell in similar numbers.
What killed the GTO is becuase there is no lesser versions of the Monaro there are no lesser versions of the GTO to pad sales and compete against the base and GT version of the Mustang.
I thought that Holden was replacing their current platforms with the Zeta platform. I thought that this included the GTO, so that for 2007 the GTO would have needed to move to a new platform or die.
The airbag thing is a red herring. The Monaro platform was at the end of its life anyways, and there was never any intention to keep it in production alongside the Zeta cars.
From what I've heard, the original plan was to build the Zeta coupes in North America and send some Monaros to Australia and elsewhere to balance the rebadged Statesman's sent up here. GMNA's production incoherence killed that, and screwed Holden out of the 2007 Monaro since they'll have to set up their own coupe production line and won't have it up until the 2008 model year.
The original GTO (in the 60's) was only available with the big block V8, in high performance tune, plus even higher performance tune's as optional. It seems to me that the current GTO is very much a GTO in the spirit of the original.
I'm just curious of how the possibility of dropping to second in sales over the next 5 years constitutes needing saved.
GM has always been a management nightmare. They've have profit issues more times than I can count. Durant got canned twice for putting the company in debt. Smith on the other hand was shot down for putting profits over market share.
What killed the GTO is becuase there is no lesser versions of the Monaro there are no lesser versions of the GTO to pad sales and compete against the base and GT version of the Mustang.
Um, there are "lesser" versions of the Monaro: the base is the 3.6HF V6 and the V8 is the LS1. In fact, you can't get the equivalent of the LS2-powered Pontiac GTO from Holden; you have to buy the top-line HSV GTO.
GM didn't sell the lesser versions in the US because the cost of re-engineering the Monaro to US standards and shipping from Australia set the price floor too high for them.
I always felt like the GTO was doomed from the start. 1) It should been made HERE. 2) As previousally stated it should have had a "base" model. 3)it looked uninspiring. 4) even with the V-8 it was too expensive for what you got. Maybe they should have made it a 4-door and it would have got a lot more attention!
I'll report from Kansas, the aircraft manufacturers here in Wichita are doing great. My buddy, who works for cessna is getting all the o/t he can handle. There is plenty of adds in the paper looking for aircraft workers. Houses and retailing are being built left and right. Housing is still extremely cheap here, I wish we had some of the appreciation seen in other areas.
I personally don't see where everything is going down the tubes. The fed is trying it's best to slow things down, so we'll see where we are headed.
Ohh, and I know what your response will be... Wait 'til the Chinese learn how to build airplanes...
Chevrolet has a smaller car than the Cobalt. It is the Aveo. Size is not the only way of ranking cars, price also is a ranking system. The Mercedes S-class is very expensive, but not much bigger than a DeVille(DTS). The DTS is actually a bit smaller than the Lucerne inside.
The Boeing plant was sold to some outfit in Canada and is now called Spirit Aerosystems. I don't know if they are currently hiring for general labor, but they are for engineering etc.
I've seen many adds for machinists and other type labor jobs with the local aerospace supplier business. From the local paper, it seems machinists/CNC operators are in high demand, along with fabricators.
Granted, this is a very cyclical sector. Just a few years ago, after 9/11, they were laying off left and right and Wichita was really hurting, now they are back on top again.
It seems to me that the current GTO is very much a GTO in the spirit of the original.
The original in the 60's looked "tough" (word from the past). Current version has a milquetoast image and unimaginative styling. Compare that to new Mustang which effectively captures essense of 60's version fastback and Bullit excitement.
GTO also overpriced for intended market and has some other troubling attributes such as handling according to Edmunds tests. Edmunds points out that a Camry can outhandle the GTO in the slalom.
GM, except for Corvette, lost direction on styling and performance about 35 years ago.
Pontiac's current styling is not anything like the 60's styling that was generally quite good. One can say that GM's entire lineup is overpriced (or at least it was overpriced).
Once again, please tell me how a quality 400hp car for 30k is overpriced?
And I am sorry, but if you think a Camry will outhandle the GTO, then you have some real issues.
Read Edmunds road tests of GTO. There are many other cars, such as mid-size sedans, that will outhandle GTO in slalom. Edmunds said that GTO had clumsy handling. If I recall, braking also was mediocre on GTO.
Marketplace is ultimate determinator of car's worth and desirability. Think that it has spoken.
Apparently not too many folks think that GTO worthy of purchase. Contrast this with Mustang or new Civic SI.
Road & Track liked the 2004 GTO better than the Mustang. The 2005 GTO had upgraded brakes. Holden's capacity for building the GTO was limited to 18000 annually.
While the Impala is based on the old GM10 (or W) platform, the Lucerne and DTS are built on the G platform, the same used by the now-discontinued LeSabre, Park Avenue, Olds 88/98, and Cadillac Seville/DeVille.
Road & Track liked the 2004 GTO better than the Mustang. The 2005 GTO had upgraded brakes.
Following are excerpts from Edmunds comparison test between Subaru and GTO:
Big tires, rear-wheel drive and a fully independent suspension can only do so much when they're trying to herd in 3,725 pounds of sheet metal. At moderate speeds the big Goat is stable enough, but push harder and its limitations aren't hard to find.
Driven back-to-back with the Subaru, the GTO feels massive, with slow turn-in and excessive body roll. With no stability control to rein you in, the GTO will happily progress to easily controllable oversteer which can be fun provided you have the room to play. Wide pedal spacing makes heel-and-toe downshifting nearly impossible, and the brakes never feel strong enough despite a switch to larger rotors, calipers and pads for 2005.
Slalom testing confirmed the GTO's clumsiness as it rumbled through the cones at a leisurely 60 mph. The STi knifed through it at 66.7 mph, a Toyota Camry Solara can do it at 60.9 mph.
And yet outside of the US where the car is labeled a Vauxhaul or Monaro, the car is compared favorably in all aspects (including handling) with cars like the 400hp BMW M5. Because Edmunds could not figure out how to drive the car, you really think a Camry handles better? And what do you expect when they compared it to a STI? The STI is a rally car, any large car like the GTO is going to feel "big" in comparison. Maybe if some of you actually drove the car instead of magazine racing, you would know why that is about the stupidest thing I have ever heard.
As far as what the car is worth, it is funny that outside of the US the car goes for 15k more than here. I guess having a Pontiac badge on it doomed it after all. It didn't help that all the US magazines dubbed it as bland. Question, do you really think they would have called it bland if it had a BMW badge on it?
Maybe if some of you actually drove the car instead of magazine racing, you would know why that is about the stupidest thing I have ever heard.
So facts, test data and Edmunds test report are meaningless? Lack of customers for this car have sealed its fate. Contrast this with another Pontiac brand, Solstice, which is huge success in marketplace.
It didn't help that all the US magazines dubbed it as bland. Question, do you really think they would have called it bland if it had a BMW badge on it?
A car can have mediocre or poor styling and still be a success if it has other desirable attributes. Look at Subaru WRX STi which Edmunds compared to GTO in road test. Face it, GTO is a dud.
Comments
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Rocky
True, but Toyota could pay GMs total health care tab and still have at least $4-5 Billion in profit.
I did hear in the Corolla forum that the Matrix/Vibe in Sept was going to get the Camry 2.4L. True or not???? If it does it'll make that even more attractive.
If you were referring to another post I'm sorry it wasnt clear.
It's statements like this that make any reasonable person wonder how anyone can discuss a subject rationally. You do seem to have a very good knowledge of GM products and their good and bad points.
But...
since 1985 the auto industry is 40% bigger and more productive. It's BOOMING... just not in GM's perspective.
since 1995 the US$ has had a 15% currency advantage over all the European countries;
Since 2001 as noted above the US$ and Yen have remain stable versus each other.
Want more... The US Steel industry is the most prodcuctive and innovative in the world!!!! The US steel industry is in it's best cycle ever!!
You may want to think that things are going to hell in a hand basket but in reality they are not. For sure though certain areas are hurting while others are booming. This is capitalism at work and it's all good.
So that is 3.7 billion that the imports did not have to pay and 3.7 billion out of the GM losses last year.
This was GM's decision back in the late 80's and they knew what they were doing. While the bloom was on the truck/SUV market all was good. Now it's more difficult and all that can be said is that GM/F have to find a solution to past bad decisions. It's noone else's fault.
I'm not sure where your getting this economic boom from ???? We as a society are adding thousands and thousands more in debt to the credit cards and to the buying of a over inflated real estate market. But hey if that's the way you see the economy in this great country, then more power to ya. :confuse:
I'd advise you to get a second opinion and look at midwest states where the majority of manufactoring takes place and the many losses in not just automotive.
Rocky
Rocky
I don't think it is the exchange rates which are the problem.
The right car,as in Chrysler 300 and Magnum, or a Ford Mustang seem to be good selling cars. Chrysler's warranty is now shorter, so I am not sure how that will impact future sales. Maybe a lot of the woes of GM are not having anything to sell that the customer wanted. The CTS and Corvette have a little bit of appeal in their own way, but most of the cars a still kinda bland. People looking for just a point A-B car, will look more at gas mileage, comfort, resale and such. Something which Toyota, and Honda can do quite well. So those drifting into a GM showroom are thinking more of how much less is their car. Yes, it has to be discounted before any consideration is made. Those looking for style, drivers that enjoy the road, or want a little extra style flair will more likely be sucked into the Ford showroom to see the Stang, or into Chrysler to see a 300 or the latest new car. Sure the Solstice is kinda cool, but is hardly seen in a showroom, and is in a very limited market.
Does anyone know what the slogan, " Chevy, An American Revolution," means?
Once again, the question of will the 2006 styling save GM. That is easy -- NO! This doesn't mean a GM, or re-organized GM can not survive. Doesn't mean they are not going to sell cars in China. Just can not believe the current direction of GM and current styles will cut it. Due to the lower quality of some the earlier cars, they need a longer warranty, some way to stabilize the resale value of the cars, and perhaps a National Health Care Plan in USA, as a recovery. After the chapter 11?
The Camaro would be a good starter car to get things going again at Chevy. Make it look like the show car, keep the size and weight down, while offering a 3.6 V6 at a reasonable price, like say $21K. It would have the HP, and with lower weight than a Challenger, say 3,000 to 3,200 # would be a good handling and scooting car. Chrysler and Ford seem to be producing a pony car which is large and heavy for a sports car, so why not go with lighter and more agile? Gas mileage would be great, as would the zero to sixty, in a reasonable priced car. Add a corvette engine for say seven grand more. And upgrade package for those that want all the bells and whistles for say $3K more.
Loren
Loren
"BMW 3" like car in the mid to high $30's with benchmark Quality and creature features like Acura/Lexus. Will the G8 finally be it ????? I'm praying on it. However the new 07' CTS seems to be good on what little we know. I'm also praying on it too. I'm also praying it get's a really nice interior and the bells and whistles of the STS/DTS.
GM no doubt has done alot of "wrongs" in it's past. It has alot of "making up to do" and therefore perhaps a industry leading warranty would really help resale and consumer confidence.
I for one do like the GTO and will miss it. There was alot of potential for the GTO, and if the redesign would of saw the light of day, perhaps it would of been a "hit".
Obviously GM saw it as to much of a risk and thus canceled the 08'
The Camaro I think will be a neat car. I wished they would make a special I-ROC Z-28 edition and forget the "SS" thang for a while. The I-Roc would have somewhat the image appeal of the Shelby. Not as good yes, but better than SS ! :mad:
Well that's my 4 cents :shades:
Rocky
Airbag redesign destroys GTO
Rocky
But...
since 1985 the auto industry is 40% bigger and more productive. It's BOOMING... just not in GM's perspective.
I was referring to industry as all of US not Auto. As I said very little is still made in this country. Turn anything over and it rarely says made in US. Yes we as a country are buying more and more. The stuff is so inexpensive. When I was a kid we had quite a few toys. today we have a birthday party for my 5 year old and we gt at one party over 20 gifts which is more than we had all together. For $15 you get a lot today. Guess this is great and hopefully it will continue.
since 1995 the US$ has had a 15% currency advantage over all the European countries; Europe is in the same boat we are. Little I buy here says "Made in Europe".
Since 2001 as noted above the US$ and Yen have remain stable versus each other.
Want more... The US Steel industry is the most prodcuctive and innovative in the world!!!! The US steel industry is in it's best cycle ever!!
You may want to think that things are going to hell in a hand basket but in reality they are not. For sure though certain areas are hurting while others are booming. This is capitalism at work and it's all good. I know and thats great. Just seems like it cannot continue unless we somehow as a country turn around. I guess we can always sell corn. We have lots of land.
Yes, like always bringing up Honda transmission problems, for example...
imidazol97: And always the last word... No one else has any knowledge to be left alone; any statement always countermanded.
It's called a discussion. During a discussion, opinions offered as facts, or outright mistatements, will be corrected.
I believe it was President Harry S. Truman who once said, "If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen."
My FIL says the Black Sea area of Russia is so rich with fertile farm land that it will make grain/corn prices in the U.S. drop like a rock. He said South America is basically untouched and once they get rolling you can pretty much kiss American Farming goodbye !!!!! So basically American Farmers are getting outsourced too. :surprise:
Rocky
n.
Consideration of a subject by a group; an earnest conversation.
n 1: an extended communication (often interactive) dealing with some particular topic; "the book contains an excellent discussion of modal logic"; "his treatment of the race question is badly biased" [syn: treatment, discourse] 2: an exchange of views on some topic; "we had a good discussion"; "we had a word or two about it" [syn: give-and-take, word]
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I believe it was President Harry S. Truman who once said, "If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen."
Thanks for that. It's pretty obvious that some people are heavily invested in these "opinions", even though a quick look at the actual facts proves them well off the mark.
The dollar has half the value against the yen that it did twenty years ago. If a strong dollar was a primary reason why we buy imported cars from Japan, then this long-term trend of the sliding dollar should have killed that, but it didn't.
Yet we want the cars, anyway (including the "Japanese" cars built in the USA.) Is there something in the water, or perhaps there's a more rational explanation?
However, with a standard 3 sedan line-up of small, medium and large. For Chevrolet that would be Cobalt, Malibu, Impala.
Keep in mind that the GTO isn't so much competition for the Mustang, but for the GT-500, which will be similarly priced and most likely sell in similar numbers.
What killed the GTO is becuase there is no lesser versions of the Monaro there are no lesser versions of the GTO to pad sales and compete against the base and GT version of the Mustang.
From what I've heard, the original plan was to build the Zeta coupes in North America and send some Monaros to Australia and elsewhere to balance the rebadged Statesman's sent up here. GMNA's production incoherence killed that, and screwed Holden out of the 2007 Monaro since they'll have to set up their own coupe production line and won't have it up until the 2008 model year.
GM has always been a management nightmare. They've have profit issues more times than I can count. Durant got canned twice for putting the company in debt. Smith on the other hand was shot down for putting profits over market share.
Um, there are "lesser" versions of the Monaro: the base is the 3.6HF V6 and the V8 is the LS1. In fact, you can't get the equivalent of the LS2-powered Pontiac GTO from Holden; you have to buy the top-line HSV GTO.
GM didn't sell the lesser versions in the US because the cost of re-engineering the Monaro to US standards and shipping from Australia set the price floor too high for them.
Maybe they should have made it a 4-door and it would have got a lot more attention!
I'll report from Kansas, the aircraft manufacturers here in Wichita are doing great. My buddy, who works for cessna is getting all the o/t he can handle. There is plenty of adds in the paper looking for aircraft workers. Houses and retailing are being built left and right. Housing is still extremely cheap here, I wish we had some of the appreciation seen in other areas.
I personally don't see where everything is going down the tubes. The fed is trying it's best to slow things down, so we'll see where we are headed.
Ohh, and I know what your response will be... Wait 'til the Chinese learn how to build airplanes...
Rocky
P.S. dieselone, have you ever considered working their ????
http://media.gm.com/servlet/GatewayServlet?target=http://image.emerald.gm.com/gm- news/viewpressreldetail.do?domain=20&docid=22932
The Boeing plant was sold to some outfit in Canada and is now called Spirit Aerosystems. I don't know if they are currently hiring for general labor, but they are for engineering etc.
I've seen many adds for machinists and other type labor jobs with the local aerospace supplier business. From the local paper, it seems machinists/CNC operators are in high demand, along with fabricators.
Granted, this is a very cyclical sector. Just a few years ago, after 9/11, they were laying off left and right and Wichita was really hurting, now they are back on top again.
The original in the 60's looked "tough" (word from the past). Current version has a milquetoast image and unimaginative styling. Compare that to new Mustang which effectively captures essense of 60's version fastback and Bullit excitement.
GTO also overpriced for intended market and has some other troubling attributes such as handling according to Edmunds tests. Edmunds points out that a Camry can outhandle the GTO in the slalom.
GM, except for Corvette, lost direction on styling and performance about 35 years ago.
http://autoweb.drive.com.au/A_54561/cms/newsarticle.html
Purhaps your thinking of the later years.
And I am sorry, but if you think a Camry will outhandle the GTO, then you have some real issues.
And I am sorry, but if you think a Camry will outhandle the GTO, then you have some real issues.
Read Edmunds road tests of GTO. There are many other cars, such as mid-size sedans, that will outhandle GTO in slalom. Edmunds said that GTO had clumsy handling. If I recall, braking also was mediocre on GTO.
Marketplace is ultimate determinator of car's worth and desirability. Think that it has spoken.
Apparently not too many folks think that GTO worthy of purchase. Contrast this with Mustang or new Civic SI.
The original (64) and the subsequent in next few years looked tough. Remember to compare with other cars in those years.
Following are excerpts from Edmunds comparison test between Subaru and GTO:
Big tires, rear-wheel drive and a fully independent suspension can only do so much when they're trying to herd in 3,725 pounds of sheet metal. At moderate speeds the big Goat is stable enough, but push harder and its limitations aren't hard to find.
Driven back-to-back with the Subaru, the GTO feels massive, with slow turn-in and excessive body roll. With no stability control to rein you in, the GTO will happily progress to easily controllable oversteer which can be fun provided you have the room to play. Wide pedal spacing makes heel-and-toe downshifting nearly impossible, and the brakes never feel strong enough despite a switch to larger rotors, calipers and pads for 2005.
Slalom testing confirmed the GTO's clumsiness as it rumbled through the cones at a leisurely 60 mph. The STi knifed through it at 66.7 mph, a Toyota Camry Solara can do it at 60.9 mph.
As far as what the car is worth, it is funny that outside of the US the car goes for 15k more than here. I guess having a Pontiac badge on it doomed it after all. It didn't help that all the US magazines dubbed it as bland. Question, do you really think they would have called it bland if it had a BMW badge on it?
So facts, test data and Edmunds test report are meaningless? Lack of customers for this car have sealed its fate. Contrast this with another Pontiac brand, Solstice, which is huge success in marketplace.
It didn't help that all the US magazines dubbed it as bland. Question, do you really think they would have called it bland if it had a BMW badge on it?
A car can have mediocre or poor styling and still be a success if it has other desirable attributes. Look at Subaru WRX STi which Edmunds compared to GTO in road test. Face it, GTO is a dud.