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General Motors discussions

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  • baveuxbaveux Member Posts: 175
    Gm is not on my list despite the good looking model that they have on their lot.

    I'm shopping for a small SUV. I'll not buy GM based on the experience I had with my Montana 2002 during the 5 years of ownership . Brake rotor warping , bad paint quality, a.c. condenser leaking, lower intake manifold and few other thing that I cant remember.

    Hyundai, Kia and even Ford will be considered. Toyota will not be on the list since I hate the way their rear door operate. Honda no V6, and I need it to haul my pop up trailer. Too bad for GM but they had their chance
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    The maintenance/repair experience at GMC shows as second class in my experience. Oil changes OK but fixing serious problems necessitates many, many attempts before th e fxin' is done.

    Not a great recipe for success. GM, lots of work left to be done...keep those babies out of the shop!!!!

    Regards,
    OW
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    What's interesting about market perception is that people don't just buy a vehicle, they also buy a brand. While GM has some excellent cars (and reliable, too =LaCrosse), they have been very inconsistent. The new Malibu may be a great car, for example -- but a buyer also worries about the brand. The long list of Acuras and Hondas is an example of the brand reliability that it will take more time for GM to develop, assuming they stay on their recent major improvement path.
  • baveuxbaveux Member Posts: 175
    The Malibu / Impala are 2 very nice car, nice interior, but..........take a look at the inside rear view mirror from the outside of the car.

    I cant beleive that they could not hide the wiring and the connector. Nothing covers the last 1/2 inch of wire, that looks like a list minute add-on done by a backyard mechanics.

    Ok Its just a small detail but if I can see something like that I can't imagine what they hide behind the sheetmetal. A real turn off for me ....They are coming back and their products looks much better than before, but they have a lot of work to do to be and stay on the top.
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Member Posts: 2,770
    The maintenance/repair experience at GMC shows as second class in my experience. Oil changes OK but fixing serious problems necessitates many, many attempts before th e fxin' is done.

    I don't disagree w/ this point. My experience w/ my wife's Ranier at one dealership was one of indifference w/ the svc. dept. I think all dealerships want nowadays are glorified parts changers, instead of a real mechanic. The second dealer we took it in to complaining of the same problem (now, our 4th complaint) was perplexed, but in ONE GODDAMMED MINUTE, looking on a computer, found a TSB for our complaint, ordered the part, car fixed, END OF ISSUE. Now, before we go swearing at the first GM dealer, the dealership sells not only GM products but Honda, Volvo, VW, and Nissan. The second dealership is B, P, GMC, and Toyota across the street.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    The first problem I took the truck to in 2004 was unknown problem that caused the truck to stall out while driving!! IT happened twice, and after taking it to the dealer twice with no clue for repair, I sent a registered Lemon Law letter while it was in for Strike 3...they then called the GM Hotline from the dealer and after another few days discovered it was a bad MAP sensor which regulates manifold pressure. Well, it was an $800 part under warranty but it took the threat of Lemon Law to get it fixed.

    Give me a break regarding the service competency. The OnStar switct was exactly the same...multiple visits and confusion which parts were needed.

    A Looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong way to go!

    Regards,
    OW
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    I think we have to remember that dealerships are not owned by GM. There are good ones and bad. What does help is the level of training and computer backup support that the OEM offers.

    If you look at data GM dealerships are all above average in service satisfaction.

    http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2007112

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  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Member Posts: 2,770
    Give me a break regarding the service competency. The OnStar switct was exactly the same...multiple visits and confusion which parts were needed.

    Nevertheless, I believe it is a problem that permeates the industry at the dealer level. It's a shame.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Unscheduled service is not related to the repair capability issue.

    Lacking are the mechanical capability and ability to fix problems on the first try...GM dealers are not that great in my reality...it's a fact I would not be proud of if my products were represented by this level of competency.

    Regards,
    OW
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Member Posts: 2,770
    Maybe I just don't get your point. I bought my Buick from a multi-brand dealership, with ONE service dept for all their brands, and they couldn't fix it. The one that did, on the first try, was again, multi brand, but service was GM ONLY. The Toyota service was across the street and separate, as they bought out the GM owner, who retired.

    From my perspective, had I bought a Nissan from the first dealer, their service would have been just as incompetent as it was for my Buick. I don't get what GM would have to do with it, as it is quite likely THE SAME MECHANIC would've worked on the Nissan, just as the same service manager manages BOTH.
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    "I think we have to remember that dealerships are not owned by GM. There are good ones and bad. What does help is the level of training and computer backup support that the OEM offers."

    That is true with any line of vehicle. One thing that I always do before purchasing is check out the service department. You can also check BBBonline for additional information on the dealership.

    For myself, I value my time too much to allow a dealer multiple attempts to fix a common problem. Time to try another. In fact one TSB stated that cross dealer warranty service is allowed to better service the customer.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Unscheduled service is not related to the repair capability issue.

    What?

    Lacking are the mechanical capability and ability to fix problems on the first try...GM dealers are not that great in my reality...it's a fact I would not be proud of if my products were represented by this level of competency.

    Maybe in your reality but we do know what reality you live in.

    But per nationwide scientifically done surveys, the service done in the service departments, shows that GM has above average service departments in satisfying the customer. Buick and Cadillac are at the top. However, as with most OEM quality surveys today, they are all mighty close. Not a heck of a lot of difference.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Because they represent ALL of the marquees, GM is on the board also. My dealer is Pontiac-Buick-GMC. Your dealer dilutes with multi-brands but since they represent GM, it is what the customer relates to if he wants his GM fixed.

    Is the car anti-repair or the mechanic deficient? Either way, satisfaction relates to the manufacturer in the end.

    Regards,
    OW
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    The JD Power article was for maintenance service...not warranty repair. Even I can do an oil change and get it right the first time. (A a gentlemen I was talking to at my 4th appointment was sold a transfer case oil change at 35K on his Denali...he new he was getting hosed but succumbed anyway.)

    My reality was with GM exclusively at one time. My family owned all marquess, even the dead one. No use knocking my perspective. Yours is the only one that matters to you also.

    My dealer is a Buick-Pontiac-GMC...my wife owns the GMC. (I would still buy a 'vette even though it's at a lowly chevy dealer.)

    The people are nice, don't get me wrong. I do not even complain, just keep taking it back and smiling because sooner or later, the repair is done. It should be done properly the first time.

    Also, some screws fell out from the headliner trim and the wiring was not tucked back into the window trim channel correctly. Oh yes, and a grease smudge was left on the headliner fabric. I replaced the screws myself.

    Again, my reality.

    Regards,
    OW
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    The JD Power article was for maintenance service...not warranty repair. Even I can do an oil change and get it right the first time.

    No, the study was also for warranty and repair work. Again, this is a survey based on a large sample size.

    The study, now in its 27th year, measures the customer satisfaction of vehicle owners who visit the dealer service department for maintenance or repair work during the first three years of ownership, which typically represent the majority of the vehicle warranty period. Overall customer satisfaction with dealer service is based on six measures: service initiation, service advisor, in-dealership experience, service delivery, service quality and user-friendly service.
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Member Posts: 2,770
    Is the car anti-repair or the mechanic deficient? Either way, satisfaction relates to the manufacturer in the end.

    Well, in my case it had to have been the mechanic, service writer AND svc. mgr. as they poo pooed the problem 3 TIMES.

    After I took it to the 2nd dealer, it got fixed in ONE SHOT, and not a peep since.

    I can't blame the mfr for ONE dealer's incompetence.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Not directly but it doesn't help the brand.

    Regards,
    OW
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    OK, missed that. The bottom line is the service needs improvement from my point of view. Multiple visits doesn't work for me.

    Regards,
    OW
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    OK, missed that. The bottom line is the service needs improvement from my point of view. Multiple visits doesn't work for me.

    From your point of view and every customer that visits that dealership. But it is not fair to blame the OEM and say all their dealers are incompetent overall. That is just one datapoint out of millions. Of course you can say "but that is my experience" and that is true. But to be fair we must look at the big picture and in this case there is hard data that shows that GM is above average in the service experience. In fact GMC is in the top 25% and 4 of the 10 marques above it are GM.

    Therefore in this forum, what can GM to do to improve ...., the dealership service experience could be improved but is probably not the issue that GM needs to put all it's money into. GM seems to have a good program with their dealers and is working hard already and has the top service in the country.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    The quality of service and interaction has kept me a loyal Buick owner through the years at the local BCPGG dealership (Buick, Pontiac, Chevy, GMC, Geo). I liked the JD Powers chart showing Buick, Cadillac, GMC and Pontiac were above many other common car brands. I was surprised how far down the GM competitor producing high numbers of vehicles is on the chart.

    The original topic post for this discussion is "Whether you agree or disagree with the company's business plan, this discussion will be focused on how the company can improve, not on how much you may hate it and want it to fail." In that positive line of thinking the strength GM needs to tout is its service quality.

    Will consolidating dealerships and reducing total number of stores help that strong showing for service?

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Yes, that is fair. The dealer service experience should be improved. I do not agree they have the top service in the country. 6 out of the top 10 are not GM in the survey. Having 4 in there shows improvement. I think the strategy to reduce dealer networks will be a change that can be targeted to service improvements.

    The competency of the mechanics and communications to the manufacturer need to be improved as the tech is more complex. In 2006, not to be able to find a sensor issue speaks well to that fact. Same with On-Star in 2007..if you provide a service, be able to support it. I was not the only one with multiple returns for that one. The systems need to be tied more closely to ensure defects are kept to a severe minimum.

    Surveys are all well and good to guide us but the actual reality tells the tale. Hope that's fair to all.

    Regards,
    OW

    By the way, I really like some of the sales guys at my particular dealer...that's an improvement all by itself. The problem is, most of the offerings are not appealing...until the G8 and Lamdas came along. Nice beginning.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    > 6 out of the top 10 are not GM in the survey.

    Two out of the top 3 are GM!!!!! :)

    Three out of the top 6 are GM!!!!! :):)

    Five out of the top 11 are GM!!!!! :):):)

    The glass is 2/3 full, not 1/3 empty. Focus on the 2/3.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    OK, the world is great and GM is back!

    Regards,
    OW
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    OK, the world is great and GM is back!

    At least it is in the service department per the last day of discussion. Of course there are always outliers. Hopefully with dealer consolidation GM will take service data into consideration (and they are:)).
  • gnomadgnomad Member Posts: 17
    "My wife's Yuokon was in the shop 2 months ago for the fourth time to upgrade OnStar from analog to digital"

    Is it possible to upgrade the Onstar system? Onstar told me it couldn't be done, yet my MIL had it done. Maybe vehicle by vehicle? It would be nice for my daughter when she inherits the Aztek.
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    OnStar is upgradable from model year 2003. Those owning 2002s are SOL. Time to upgrade the vehicle anyway.

    I know that BMW uses OnStar as well as several other manufacturers. Wonder how their upgrades are doing.

    I never activated OnStar. Just another way for Big Brother to track you. Hmm more I think about it they can track whether you activate it or not.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Yes, for the 2003 Yukon, they upgraded analog to digital at the end of last year.

    Regards,
    OW
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Heck the quality of Buick cars alone keeps me a loyal buyer! I rarely need to go to the dealer for repairs or service. Buick cars are beautiful in their simplicity and can be owner serviced or repaired or can be cared for by a competent local mechanic.
  • automan22automan22 Member Posts: 2
    The biggest item gm can do is make nicer looking cars instead of trying to copy other cars. Take a look at the new malibu, I think this is a very nice looking car
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    The biggest item gm can do is make nicer looking cars instead of trying to copy other cars. Take a look at the new malibu, I think this is a very nice looking car

    As is the CTS, Aura, Camaro, Enclave, Solstice, Sky, Acadia, Vue, G8, G6, SUV's, Outlook, Astra, Cobalt, HHR, Corvette, XLR, Hummers, etc.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    I hope you don't mean all those are nice looking. Some are...some not so much.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Of course it is a matter of opinion but my list contains all the vehicles that I think are top notch in appearance in each segment. I left out some that were a bit controversial.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    I've never been too warm to the "inchworm" G6 along with Hummers, Cobalt is pretty unremarkable, and the XLR is kind of odd at some angles.

    Aren't the Enclave and Acadia the same segment? Along with Solstice/Sky? Or are these all named just to make the list look longer? :P
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    I was not listing the top looking vehicle in each segment. I was listing the good looking GM vehicles. In my opinion both the Sky and Solstice are fantastic looking. Just different personalities. Same for the Lambdas.

    The G6 is just getting old. I have always thought it was one of the better looking midsize vehicles out there. Long wheelbase, short overhangs,got a sporty/snarky side view thing going on. Much better than the Accord or Camry.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    The G6 is just getting old. I have always thought it was one of the better looking midsize vehicles out there. Long wheelbase, short overhangs,got a sporty/snarky side view thing going on.

    That is a negative compared to the Accord/Camry...disagree totally and I drove 2007 and 2008 versions...very unimpressive drives. A lot more people disagree with you than just little old me.

    Agree with you on some of the others. GM has not made it yet by a long shot. They will be number 2 very very soon.

    Regards,
    OW
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,107
    The latest Saturn commercials have a guy doing a double take as he looks at the cars, as if to say "Hmm, I thought Saturn only sold boring, relable small sedans." Well, now they sell copies of all the other GM cars, with only the Astra as something different. Saturn just seems to be a major distraction for GM, a brand they have to support with cars, but can't afford to support with marketing. Think of how good Chevy and Pontiac could be if all the billions GM put into Saturn had been spent on them, instead!
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Just another example of the HUGE job ahead of them. Time will tell..looks like they are doing some things right.

    Regards,
    OW
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,107
    They have the best products ever, don't get me wrong. I just hope they can figure out how to compete.
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    The basic problem with the XLR is that they moved the Evoq concept to the Corvette platform and lost the proportions that the concept car had. The first generation CTS was not quite right either as they tried to make the Evoq's styling into a 4 door sedan.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    General Motors Corp. is looking to export U.S.-made vehicles to Europe
    as well as to China and Latin American markets such as Brazil, company
    executives confirmed. For years the U.S. has been one of the most expensive places in the world to make cars. But the new contracts with the United Auto Workers union signed last fall significantly improve the global competitive
    position of Big Three plants. The weaker dollar, which makes production
    in the U.S. less expensive, is also helping to turn the economics of
    domestic production upside down.

    "Combined with the weak dollar, we've got a contract that puts ourselves
    in a great position to ship products to other countries and do it making
    a profit," said Mike Herron, a UAW official at GM's assembly plant in
    Spring Hill, Tenn., who is involved in negotiations with the company.
    Detroit's improved competitive position has sparked concern among
    foreign manufacturers, which do not use unionized U.S. workers. Toyota
    Motor Corp. is now pushing to lower labor costs in the U.S., say people
    familiar with the matter.

    Later this year, GM will begin shipping the Buick Enclave, a
    seven-passenger crossover sport-utility vehicle made in Lansing, Mich.,
    to China, where the Buick brand is a big seller. GM hopes eventually to
    export as many as 25,000 Enclaves a year to China, said Dee Allen, a GM
    spokesman.
    GM is making plans to sell the Chevrolet Malibu, a sedan made in Kansas
    and Michigan, and possibly other U.S.-made passenger cars in Brazil and
    other Latin American markets, GM executives have said.

    The company also has told UAW officials it is seriously considering
    building a future small car in Lordstown, Ohio, that would be exported
    to markets outside North America, people familiar with the matter said.
    It would be one of five new vehicles being produced there near the turn
    of the decade, one of these people said. The 42-year-old Lordstown
    assembly plant had been considered a candidate for closure due to high
    UAW labor costs.
    To stay competitive, Toyota has stopped pegging its wages to UAW rates
    when it builds new plants, company executives said. It won't cut wages
    of current workers, but new hires will be paid no more than 50% above
    the prevailing manufacturing wage in the area where a plant is located,
    they said.

    Exporting a large number of U.S.-made cars could go a long way in
    helping the Big Three turn around their unprofitable North American
    operations. It could also help them tap faster-growing overseas markets,
    especially at a time when U.S. sales have been hit by economic worries.
    Exports could help lower costs per vehicle and use up excess
    manufacturing capacity.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    What would be exported to Europe?
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Great plan...see what they have been missing for years? It sounds almost like this is something new...shine the light and follow it this time.

    Regards,
    OW
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Some say:
    Holden Astra, Vauxhall Astra, Opel Astra, Saturn Astra, and Chevy Cobalt

    I would add on any small RWD vehicles.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Here is a snapshot of market share in last year...

    image

    and the trend for 10...

    image

    Trend says GM is still slip-sliding away as the big T rolls on. That says to me much, much work to do. I know it's a good start. Let's see what time brings. You've got to turn that trend around and it ain't easy.

    Regards,
    OW
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    nice charts, some comments

    For 2007 GM total vehicle sales were down 6%. Feb/March dropped partially due to the gas price increases which clobbered truck/SUV sales.

    For 2007 GM dropped about 100,000 units of rental fleet sales( out of ~900,000 units), so retail sales did drop slightly for the year. Overall the entire market was down about 2.5%. So GM basically kept it's retail market share.

    I wonder who is making up the fleet reduction that GM has taken?
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    Why would Astras be sent to Europe when they originally come from Europe and production infrastructure is already established there? And why would a Holden badged model be sent to Europe? I don't think Europeans would care about the Holden name.

    I don't think a Cobalt would be appropriate there either, it's kind of just a decontented Astra in a way.

    GM should focus on sending Caddys to Europe as the product line becomes more competitive.
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    I think Hyundai and Chrysler are taking up the rental slack.

    You know the problem with Saturn? After the initial experiment they abandoned the whole idea that Saturn was supposed to be and let it just sit there for years. Now they have the right idea with selling a broad range of vehicles but they are competitive with other GM makes. Not an ideal situation but they may well market their way out of it.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • wtd44wtd44 Member Posts: 1,208
    Saturn has some draw power to bring back many buyers who left the GM fold many years ago in despair.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    I see Saturn as a marketing exercise more than anything anyway...so yeah, they could fix themselves with some good placement.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,107
    Yeah, they could fix themselves, but then where will the marketing $$ come from for Chevy? Pontiac? Buick? The overlap is killing them. How many versions of the Outlook do we need, anyway? Really, just 2. Toyota's got it figured with Highlander/RX, Camry/ES, etc.
This discussion has been closed.