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General Motors discussions
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Scott
Wait a minute what if the Japanese car companies are thinking the same thing, I correct my self with there insight it's probably already on there drawing board and the US plants are just waiting for the green light. Remember they have no union and there labor cost is a little lower, they also have more flex abilty especially if the dollar gets stronger and they stop exporting guess what they don't have to contend with the union layoff pay outs.
I believe GM will build some of those cars here in the near future, however at this time they are using reverse marketing and shipping cars in from over seas. I believe there long term strategy will be to close more plants in the US and shift production to places like China and export the cars back into the US.
If I was running GM I would build more swing type style plants here in the US which in turn would give them the ability to build each car class size in multi joined plants and then have more of the components sheet metal and all made overseas, then shipped back and put together like building a modular home or lego style. The Astra import car is a prototype program for GM I think if it works guess what.
The real first question I have is what cars or SUV's is GM going to export there current line up is horrible they don't don't they cant evevn sell them here and bringing out new dynamic models takes them years. Right now int the US the two really hot selling car and SUV is the Malibu nice car however thre front looks like the Chevy Uplander Van and we know where that van is going and Enclave at 25,000 SUV's a year I don't think so, is that really going to push GM right to the top, wow I think everybody should run out today and start buying GM stock.
For every move GM /Ford Chyl. makes the foregin competion is one giant step ahead of them from a manufacturing stand point, design, but most of all markeeting alone they beat us on our own turf where we should konw better than anyone what the US consumer really wants and needs.
There are alot of other small ways for GM can recapture some of the magic back and that starts with "stop the wrong guessing" and create new inovative markets,
ie like the big T does.
All they have to do is get rid of Pontiac, Buick, Saturn, and GMC!
The G8 replacement will be built alongside the Camaro and any other variants of the mid RWD architecture. They need to fill a plant up with that platform. IF the Impala goes RWD the volume will be low enough that the Oshawa plant complex (actually 2 car plants under one roof) could easily handle it.
GM really likes to build where they sell.
With the next generation Saturn Astra the rumor is that it will be built here. Will it be exported as an Opel or other variants? I doubt it. Well maybe if Europe needs a bit more volume than they have capacity.
GM's new compact-vehicle architecture will generate a broad range of products. The following are models that could be built in this small car plant. Some could be built here and then shipped overseas. About 1.2 million worldwide on this architecture.
A small, minivanlike vehicle for Chevrolet in 2009
A seven-passenger minivan that will replace the Opel Zafira
An all-new Saturn Astra in 2009 or 2010
A Daewoo-badged model for South Korea
A Chevrolet for Europe
A premium Buick for China
Unnamed models for Africa and South America
A possible Saab model
http://ww.uniontrib.com/uniontrib/20071208/news_lz1dd8global.html
The Cobalt/HHR is rumored to be on a different architecture, Gamma. I reall do not know what other models would be built on this platfrom but womewhere I read that the Volt would be based on the next generation Coblat but I really doubt it. The Volt platform has a lot of specific design compromises that do not lend to a normal sedan.
And why do we have to "get lucky" to get their better products? If we are not their #1 customer, who is? China and India will eventually have their own make that is competitive to other foreign brands.
As for the cars you mention, i don't claim to know why the decisions were made the way they were, only the executives in charge can say why they did them and if they were right for the companies involved at the time. (I would say in retrospect the decisions weren't right but who am I to say for certain).
I do know that across the pond they are willing to pay more for smaller cars than we are and the cars have more features etc because of this. I think that is starting to change now, so hopefully we will get some of these other cars here (from all manufactures).
I said we would be lucky to get these cars because they are better than what we are getting here, and are very competitive in the over seas markets.
You seem to have a bit of a chip on your shoulders about these issues (probably justified) but don't seem willing to accept that maybe things are finally changing for the better (maybe to late for some?). I haven't had the horrible experience with american products that many have (only had three in the family over the last 24 years between 5 drivers mind you), so I am willing to wait and see what happens, I think they are just starting to wake up and we will hopefully see better things coming.
Scott
But if GM was to drop GMC they would lose instantly 100,000 + units of very profitable truck sales. Yes today sales are down but at least that many would go elsewhere because they would not buy a Chevy. Olds proved that point. Insiders thought that the ex buyers would just buy some other GM product. Did not happen. GM lost a lot of sales. Also if they drop GMC they would have to kill Pontiac and Buick because their volumes/profits are just getting too small for standalone dealers.
Could I see a GM w/o GMC/Buick/Pontiac? Yes but GM would then be a 18% share company. They would need to close another 2-3 plants.
Unfortunately, the 18% figure may be a foregone conclusion at the end of the day. I know you probably think I would be happy with that but I really find it unfortunate and a textbook case of too late to face changes...for whatever reason.
The old model broke and now their strategy needs to meet the market with best in class products. We are seeing some of that so they need to cut and improve their way to gain any market share from here. Painful yes, impossible no.
Regards,
OW
That's the price they'd pay for all these years convincing people there were real differences where there were none, in fact. What's the difference between a Chevy and a GMC pickup? Nothing.
I think Chevy, Cadillac, Hummer, and GMC would make the most sense, because the GMC dealers could probably stand on their own, and Hummer could be added to either Caddy or GMC. GMC has been the second best selling GM brand for several years now, correct?
GM could take a page from Ford, which has finally sold Jaguar and Land Rover. I bet Mercury goes next, as I understand Lincoln sales are now higher than Mercury's. And maybe if things get desperate enough, they may have to sell Volvo, although that's a toughie, since their platforms are so intertwined now with Ford's.
I'm enjoying my newest Corvette while I can, as I have no long term confidence in the company I used to love.
Why? only the stubborn, greedy people at the top of GM truly know.
Seriously though, when Oldsmobile became the Aurora brand, I think a lot of Oldsmobile 98 owners felt disenfranchised. However, the Aurora owners were disappointed to see the end of Oldsmoble/Auroa. There really was no replacement vehicle for the Aurora, even the Lucerne V8 is not a replacement (not even the Super). On the otherhand I find the sigma Cadillac platform to exceed what the Aurora had.
Isn't that what Chrysler did with Plymouth? Not much special about Chryslers now, too bad...
deal” as the top reason consumers give for buying a General Motors
product.
This is according to J.D. Power and Associates' data. Back in 2003, 26.5
per cent of those who bought a GM vehicle listed the deal as the top
reason, with performance next and exterior styling third.
What a difference 3 years and Lutz makes. Exterior styling is now the #1 reason given for buying a GM product. Used to be rebates and price.
But seems to be due to quality reputation. Hopefully that will change with time.
I'll tell you up front that I voted for the Malibu in the AJAC
competition. Why? I prefer the styling inside and out and the Malibu's
overall road manners are very good. Power and fuel economy are a wash,
as is braking. The Malibu actually has a slight edge on the Accord in
crash test performance, based on a better score for rear seat side
impacts.
Quality? The Honda's history is better and very well-established. This
Honda has been so good for so long that Consumer Reports magazine gave
the new one a pass – an automatic recommendation.
But so far it looks like this new Malibu is a very solid car. GM has not
issued any safety recalls to date and only exceedingly minor technical
issues have cropped up since the launch last fall. The Malibu looks like
a player and Consumer Reports does say the reliability history has been
above-average for the Malibu.
The two I'd put atop my list would be the Malibu and Accord, both of
which were completely redesigned for 2008. In terms of pricing, Chevy
officials would argue the point, but really, the Malibu and Accord are
very close. The Malibu starts at $22,995 and ranges up to $33,610. The
Accord: $25,090-$34,990. From power trains to features to fuel economy,
the two are also quite comparable.
All those factors make the Malibu a triumph of good decision-making at
GM. Honda has done these things well for a couple of decades, but not
GM.
http://www.globeauto.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080410.wh-faceoff-0410/GAStory/sp- ecialGlobeAuto/home?cid=al_gam_mostemail
Honda has been so good for so long that Consumer Reports magazine gave
the new one a pass – an automatic recommendation.
Obviously CR hasn't learned their lesson as they did the same for the 2007 Camry and Tundra and look where it got them. Toyota no longer receives a "free ride". Why would anyone buy a magazine that gives "free rides"?
I don't have a chip on my shoulder since I never owned a domestic vehicle. I am not a truck/suv nor a luxury car buyer and the rest of the domestic lineup is just not appealing to me when it was time to purchase a vehicle.
The malibu, impala, the new crossovers are very competitive products and I hope it's an indication for future GM products. The current astra is very expensive for what it has to offer but i think it's due to the tanking US$. I hope the new one that's build here would solve the problem.
Also the district rep has a lot to do with day to day warranty or service procedures at the dealerships making him/her one busy individual. Course saying no most of the time isn't that hard.
http://www.leftlanenews.com/wp-content/plugins/iimage-gallery.php?idpost=6978&id- g=2&idi=1
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
ON the prototype I see they went with 2 tone seats. Looks like the 2 tone Malibu idea continues.
Regards,
OW
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I always thought that was a good name for car men.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
But here's the best part, the Enclave has been as reliable and problem free as a car can get. It's only been to the dealer once and that was for a scheduled maintenance visit for the usual oil change and tire rotation.
Solid as a stone, reliable as the sunrise, comfortable as a couch, quiet as a mime, the Enclave is the best SUV GM has ever built. Unless you're planning to tow really, really big stuff, you'd have to be nuts to pass on the Enclave and buy a Tahoe or a Yukon. Now if GM can only build a Buick sedan this good.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
My rule of thumb back in the 70's was that a car should go 50k without first needing any major work. That got bumped up to 75k in the 80's and now if anything major breaks on my cars before 100k, I'm a bit irritated.
A water pump or power steering pump just shouldn't die in 7 years/100k.
I had a power window motor get fixed under warranty on my minivan, and had a CV joint go bad at 102k, plus the above consumables. The CV joint was a bit of a letdown.
I believed in 'Made in the USA' but it's getting old and costly. That's why I purchased the extended warranty...no trust in under 100K worry free operation..I guessed right!
Sorry, QC doesn't even come close to acceptable from my point of view. I know others say GM quality is right up there with the best now....unless it is them that have to fork over the aprox. $2,400 in repair costs for these broken parts.
MAP Sensor @ 24K
PS Pump @ 40K
AC condenser @ 50K
Let's see what the Enclave brings in Yr 1 repair rating.
Regards,
OW
I fully understand. My Suburban coughed up a trans at 47k, AC Compressor at 65k just for starters.
I think GM vehicles are getting better, but when see a whole topic on GM Tahoe/Suburban transmission issues and the amount of posters owning 2007 models that need transmission replacements, you wonder how much the quality has improved. No doubt the new models look better.
So is GM that bad? Not so sure. Are there a lot of pissed off Camry and Tundra owners? That I'm sure of.
One thing for sure that I agree with is that when purchasing a GM product it is always with an extended FACTORY warranty. I guess I should consider the same for Toyota now too.
My '97 Subaru wagon has a rep for failing head gaskets although I think I'm ok so far at 67k. And don't go telling me the failing head gaskets happened because GM had an ownership stake in Subaru back then. GM got their interest in Subaru from Nissan back in '00.
As for Toyota, I've never really been drawn to their product, but they seemed to put out a lot of well built product. Looks like their pursuit to overtake GM has made them become more like GM.
I had a 2000 Silverado and still own a 2002 Yukon Denali. One had the infamous 4L60E and the other has a modified 60 called the 4L65E. I'm assuming these are the transmissions you're referring to? I don't know what you mean by a LOT of people with failing trans as with selling over a million a year what means a LOT to you doesn't mean a LOT to GM. That being said neither vehicle has had any problems with its transmission. Course I service and change filter, fluid at 30k intervals and have never had them flushed. Course YMMV.
Perhaps on your next failure you would consider upgrading to the bulletproof 4L80E.
I personally know 6 people not including myslef who have had a 4l60e die early in a 1/2 ton. That's a lot to me. Also, the owner of the trans shop that rebuilt mine went on and on about had bad this trans is for 1/2 ton use. Sun gear shell failures are well documented.
Yes the 4l80e has a great reputation. I test drove an 07 3/4 ton Yukon XL a few weeks ago as a possible replacement, but I don't know if I can tolerate how they ride/handle, plus, I was not at all impressed by the power of the 6.0l with the extra weight of the 3/4ton chassis. The 08 3/4 tons SUVs get the new 6 speed which I'd like the extra ratios when towing, particularly up hills. From what I've read the 6 speed really improves the performance of the 6.0L.
I know that is what the GM Powertrain website states, but that can't be what the actual GCWR is for the 4l60E. If it is, then GM should be subject to a lawsuit when they list tow ratings of up to 8k for Suburban's with this trans. Since mine is 4 wheel drive with 3.73 gears, my tow rating is 7200lbs IIRC. My travel trailer is around 5500lbs and really is more than I should be towing with this combo (though I don't tow it much or far), just not strong enough or geared properly for this much weight. My boat is around 4500lbs and much easier to tow. My trans failed before I had the camper.
Hey I can't complain about the 5.3. I'm at 106k and something like 3200 hours on the meter and not a single issue. Sure, I'd like more torque w/o having to spin 4000+ rpm, but it seem willing to spin high rpm w/o any issues.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,