Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/25 for details.
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/25 for details.
Options
General Motors discussions
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
The engine will not go away until the Eps II based model comes out. Look for a show car version of it soon in China.
Will it also come with free lead based paint?
There were changes made to the path of the EGR gases. The EGR gases are routed into the aluminum lower intake manifold (hereto after referred to as LIM) and went through a short metal tube through a portion of the UIM and were sprayed into the path of the incoming air from the throttle body. The metal tube had a small clearance between the hot metal tube and the plastic of the UIM. The heat crystallizes the UIM material into a granular material having the morphology of styrofoam in my opinion. The material in the hot area is also the wall in the UIM to the coolant which flows from the LIM into the upper and then through more gaskets into the throttle body to warm the throttle body in cold weather to prevent icing.
The granulated material can allow coolant to seep into the air body of the UIM (bad). Also the gaskets were made of a nylon 66 in the contact squeeze areas and this was apparently deteriorated by the antioxidation chemical used in the earlier DexCool formula. Later this choice of antioxidants was changed. This is like the MTBE being used as an oxidant for gasolines and then finding it, the cheapest additive to help air pollution, actually was more dangerous to the environment than the air pollution from normal gasoline would have been. Bad choices.
I'm not sure when the DexCool was changed, but people who replace their DexCool every two-3 years in their cars or 36000 miles don't seem to have had trouble to the degree those who tried to run DexCool to 150000 miles as the advertised mile and 5 year age limit suggested.
The people who changed out their original DexCool probably got the new formula into their car and had little trouble with the seals leaking. That was the second problem in the intake manifolds. The deteriorated seals allowed leaks in the areas of coolant flow to the UIM and to the throttle body.
Also people with superchargers had little trouble since their UIM is the metal supercharger setup.
The LIM seals under the LIM can leak on both. Replacement gaskets under the LIM have an aluminum framing. Again it appears, in my opinion, people who changed out DexCool early avoid the relative low fraction of LIM gaskets which leak.
So if Lemko looks at a supercharged Park Avenue, look for new gasket edges at the LIM to head/block area. If not SC, then look for UIM with a date in the circles pressed into the top indicated year, month, and day of manufacture. If it's one of the small fraction that failed, hopefully it's replaced by an aftermarket unit such as Dorman which use a smaller EGR metal tube and give a much larger air space around the hot EGR tube. No more problems.
Look at the coolant tank for a dirty brown coating. That's not deteriorated DexCool; that's the sealer which is put into the car at the factory as in most cars. It's a ground of walnut shell or something as simple as that.
IF you see a crudy looking material floating and coating the coolant reservoir that may be DexCool that has not been changed every 2-3 years OR has had an idiot put in some green coolant. Mixing the two produces a mess. Not changing the DexCool OR running with air in the system such as low radiator also causes a deterioration and accelerates a crud formation. I first heard about this with Ford Explorers which weren't filled completely because of the physical shape of the cooling system and found that to be a problme with their DexCool.
Some other GM motors had similar/different gasket problems but not the EGR aspect of the 3800's problem. The 3800s actually seemed to fare better in fraction of problems.
Check the oil cap and oil appearance in a used purchase for signs of coolant contamination beyond condensation on the cap from cold weather running. Note that running for any time with coolant in the oil is "bad" for bearings.
People who have DexCool leaks usually are aware of it because of driveability and it doesn't often go on without attention leading to oil contamination and those problems.
GM redesigned the LIM and EGR metal tube in 1999, IIRC. The failures in 2000-2003 are much smaller than the 1995-1999 period. In 2004 the intake was changed to metal on the normally aspirated engine.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
will begin exporting to China later in the year, plus a mid-cycle
enhancement of its Excelle.
Bunnell lists Buick’s achievements last year in the U.S., noting 50% of
the hot-selling Enclave’s buyers are coming from other brands. The
Enclave last month outsold competitors, including the Mazda CX-9, Volvo
XC90 and Acura MDX.
low-roofline, 4-door concept car at next week’s Beijing auto show dubbed
the Invicta.
The concept car builds on the look and feel of the recent Buick Riviera
coupe concept unveiled at last year’s Shanghai auto show, says Dave
Lyons, who is responsible for the brand’s interior design in North
America but also recently worked for Buick in Asia.
“Above all, (it says) ‘graceful,’” Lyons says when asked for an
adjective to describe the Invicta, as well as the design language of
other recent Buicks.
The Riviera design cues found on the Invicta include the car’s flowing,
curvaceous lines, including Buick’s signature waterfall grille and the
continuation of a “spa-like” interior.
“It’s pretty easy to make a coupe look good, but the market in both
countries (U.S. and China) is more (centered) around 4-door sedans,”
Lyons says. Buick is “very serious about the design cues” of the
Invicta, which will make their way to a production model, although he
can’t say which one.
Lyons also does not pinpoint the level of Chinese involvement in the
vehicle but says Buick’s designers in China were integral to bringing
the Invicta to fruition. Buick “couldn’t have done” the concept without
their collaboration.
“I’m sure at some point we’ll have a full story on who did what, but
this really was a joint project between the Shanghai studio and the
studio here in Michigan,” Lyonds says, adding there were an “an awful
lot of conference calls early in the morning” from the U.S. to China.
http://www.autoblog.com/photos/opel-insignia-leaked-images/751013/
The 3.8 plant is shutting down soon. GM is stockpiling engines for the short '09 LaCrosse run. It makes no sense to bring in the 3.9 for 6 months. Too much development cost. The Lucerne is going to be around for a few more years. It needed a base engine to replace the 3.8. I would also have prefered the HF3.6 as base. I would guess they looked at the current Lucerne buyer base, looked at the lack of 3.6 capacity and chose to use the capacity in their newer "hot" vehicles such as the Lamdas, Malibu and Cadillacs. The 3.6 is quite a bit more expensive than the HV 3.9 and they probably could not see adding $1000 to the base price of the Lucerne and not effecting the sales.
The LaCrosse has dropped the 3.6 for the 2009 model year.
The volume on 3.6L never took off. Buyers of the LaCrosse just wanted the tried and true 3.8. And now that there is a V8 there really was no need for the 3.6 for such a short run. And GM really needs the capacity for the 3.6 in their other products.
I am sure the new 2010 LaCrosse will come with the 3.6L and no V8. In fact I wonder what engines will be in the Eps II LaCrosse? Perhaps it will even come with a 4 cylinder in this new $4 gas world. Love to see the turbo 210 hp 2.0 L as the standard engine and the 300hp 3.6L as the up level. I am sure both these engines will be in The Eps II platform. Perhaps even the 2.3 L 260hp!! But most likely the base engine will be the 160HP 4, even though to me that is a bit underpowered but competitive with the Accords/Camrys. The need 200 hp minimum. So maybe the 3.5 or 3.9 will be standard?
Here are some old interior shots from DEsign Staff that actually look like the spy photos.
http://www.cheersandgears.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=19618
Took to dealer demanding flush, clean etc. All they did was remove tank, clean tank and partially refill system, but not flush system, looks clean now. Do you think I should go back and demand total flush etc. since I plan on keeping this car and am likely to get problems later after warranty? Thanks much.
Fed up, Martin opened a little gas station of his own at his dealership; it provides ethanol, along with biodiesel and gasoline.
Customers flocked to Classic Chevrolet/Hummer on the station's opening day, thanks in part to a promotion sponsored by ethanol-booster General Motors Corp. And within a few days, nearly three dozen dealers from around the country called or flew in to check out his operation.
"The reason why you haven't seen a greater number of E-85 pumps is that customers aren't knocking our doors down to get it," said Mark Griffin, president of the Michigan Petroleum Association.
Other gasoline alternatives have detractors too. Critics of hydrogen fuel cells say a viable infrastructure will never happen. Cynics of the electric car doubt the auto industry will ever develop a battery strong and durable enough to replace the gas engine.
Martin said his station has seen a steady stream of customers since opening last month. GM helped by sponsoring a day of 85.9-cents-per gallon fill-ups at the station. Classic is the nation's largest Chevy dealer and is located in a metropolitan region with more than 5 million people.
GM, working to cultivate a green image, is doing all it can to promote its ethanol offerings. The automaker says it has more than 3 million flex-fuel vehicles on the road in the United States, and plans to make half its portfolio E85-compatible by 2012.
That's the somewhat upbeat conclusion of a new report issued by the Ann Arbor-based Center for Automotive Research and presented at Lansing Community College's auto tech center Monday. The study is based on interviews with Big Three officials and others in the auto industry.
"The bleeding will stop," said Kristin Dziczek, a project manager for the center and co-author of the report.
Overall employment by the domestic car companies will be down between now and 2016. In Michigan, the number of auto workers will drop from the current 129,000 to 114,254 by 2011 and 108,430 by 2016.
But due to buyouts and thousands of retirements of baby boomers and reduction of legacy costs, the auto companies will be in a hiring mode in the years to come, the report says.
"It's easy to overlook that the buyouts are occurring so the Detroit three can hire," Dziczek said.
Of the 45,955 total new employees needed by 2016, the automakers will hire more than 24,000 hourly production workers and nearly 22,000 salaried employees including more than 8,800 engineering and technical workers and 1,200 skilled trades people, according to the report.
"While the domestic manufacturers struggle with a current oversupply of trades workers in nearly all classifications, all of the automakers interviewed for this study expressed concern about the future pipeline of skilled workers," the report said. The new employees will need math, computer, technical reading, teamwork and communications skills, said Bernard Swiecki, a project manager and co-author of the report, titled "Beyond the Big Leave: The Future of U.S. Automotive Resources." At the same time, there will be less physical demand on the auto workers of the future.
Because newly hired production workers will earn between $14 and $16 an hour under the recently negotiated UAW contracts, competition for those employees will be fierce from other employers paying similar wages, according to the study.
The companies are relatively comfortable about an adequate supply of engineers. Engineers will need a combination of expertise in mechanical, electronic and
In the United States, auto employment will level off near 355,000 employees. But the mix between domestic and foreign automakers will change, according to the report. Foreign manufacturers employ 32 percent of auto workers today and that will increase to 43 percent by 2016.
Yet they have 50% of the market?
Yet they have 50% of the market?
Union featherbedding. :sick:
Here's hoping they stay on the right track with their products.
Regards,
OW
Regards,
OW
GM now has the quality, the styling, the price, the service, the warranty, the 6 speed trannys, the DOHC engines and much more. Heck they even have the fancy headlights in their top cars (used to be a big point here on why GM was behind). As capacity is added look for more of the older vehicles to get 6 speeds as they are replaced. I am surprized they put the 6 speed in the G6. Looks like it will be around awhile. But it does give the G6 and Malibu 4 cylinders higher MPG than the Accord and Camry so I am sure that played into it.
General Motors has some significant features it's adding for 2009 that shouldn't fall through the cracks. For one, Bluetooth will finally become available on nearly all of GM's cars and trucks. For the longest time, only the Cadillac STS was available with Bluetooth phone integration, which ends with MY2009. Second, the six-speed automatic transmission that before was not widely available in the General's half-ton trucks and SUVs has spread like wildfire across the GMT900 lineup and will now be standard or optional in such vehicles as the Avalanche, Silverado and Sierra 1500, Suburban, Yukon and Yukon XL.
Other items of note include a new 6-speed automatic for the Pontiac G6 to replace its underwhelming 4-speed, the replacement of GM's 3.6L V6 in the GMC Acadia and Saturn Outlook with the direct-inject version that will bump power up to 290 hp, and finally a new four-cylinder base model for the uplevel Malibu LTZ that features the the 2.4L four-cylinder ECOTEC engine paired with a six-speed automatic.
I don't think Toyota would appreciate the analogy although it was a fine looking ship.
It now sits in two parts under a 1000 feet of water making for an excellent artificial reef.
The USS Missouri which survived WWII, the Korean War, the Vietnam War and was used extensively in the Gulf now sits about 8 miles from my house as a museum.
Chevrolet
Buick-Pontiac-GMC
Saturn
Premium: Cadillac-Hummer-Saab
I hope Premium doesn't turn into what FOMOCO had with the PAG :sick:
Pearl Harbor II might happen in the auto industry if GM keeps on rolling!
BTW, McNeil-Lehrer News Hour had a report on Health Care systems in other countries...guess who has one of the best?
Japan produces cars, color TVs and computers, but it also produces the world's healthiest people. It has the longest healthy life expectancy on Earth and spends half as much on health care as the United States.
Doesn't look like that Battleship is going down anytime soon! They learned their lessons from Demming very well!
Regards,
OW
Not really 4 brands.
Chevrolet dealerships will sell the lowest cost, full line-up vehicles for the masses.
BPG dealerships will sell "premium" mid range priced vehicles at lower volumes. Pontiac will be performance with Buick lux.
Saturn sells whatever they can get from whereever in a smaller line-up.
Premium dealerships will sell more expensive higher end vehicles in low volumes.
Now you're talking my kind of talk.
Dr. W. Edwards Deming, first approached the big three in the good ole US of A with his ideas on TQM (total quality management) and was basically laughed out of town only to be received with welcome arms by the then quality lacking Japanese. The rest as they say is history.
I was lucky in the sense that I had led a group which had invested in Rapicom facsimiles. We were the pioneers introducing fax technology in the US. Needless to say we made a ton of money though short lived and it was a lot of fun at the time. Course Ricoh/Rapicom had won various Deming awards, a story that we told at each sales presentation.
That aside Toyota doesn't follow Dr. Deming's preachings anymore. I guess that's why they have had serious quality issues enough that CR no longer gives them a free pass. Guess that's what happens when you think you know more than the master.
Regarding the Yamato...here is one of the final pictures taken of her prior to her being used as an artificial reef.
Perhaps, just perhaps they learned from the past???
http://www.thestar.com/Business/article/414159
Regards,
OW
Hoping this is still on topic...
Again, I think that is what helped to put down FOMOCOs' PAG (not saying it's the only reason, but one of them). By tying the lower-level (perhaps even sub-par :confuse: ) Lincoln products to PAG, it kind of took the "premium" out of the auto group. It made people think Ford thought Lincoln was on par with AM, Jaguar, LR when it was really Mercury's older brother that had a slightly better job.
'62, it's been a little bit of a bad Thursday for GM:
Vibe Recall
GM strike
I hope the strike doesn't cause to much of a disturbance.
So here is what I see....more bumps in the road for GM because change hurts real bad. The competition does not go on strike. Change or die.
Regards,
OW
Vibe Recall
Whats really funny is that the local paper put "GM Vibe" recall in the headline and then in the story it talks about the Matrix and Corolla recall on the same part since it is a common part on all 3 designed and built by Toyota.
The strike, if it goes on, will put a crimp in the Lamda sales. Cannot believe how the UAW would do this. GM is barely surviving yet they shut a profitable plant down.
Word smithing can be fun. Perhaps we should just say Chevrolet is a low price manufacturer like Toyota/Honda. BPG is a mid priced manufacturer somewhere near infiniti and Lexus (but not there yet, products like the Enclave and G8 are getting them there). And Cadillac somewhere above that more in line with BMW and MB.
GM is not there yet though. But all the new products that came out and the ones coming (LaCrosse!!) will move them in that direction. Pontiac, GMC and Buick were always the middle brands at GM. They need to continue to stratify the divisions back to where they once were. Cadillac needs to continue to move their vehicles higher (the RWD BLS will allow the CTS to move up $3 or 4K). Chevrolet needs to continue to offer value vehicles like the new Malibu.
There is a good comparison there with the midsize vehicles. The Malibu starts at $20k. The new Epsilon II LaCrosse should start at around $25K (it will be a bit larger than the Malibu but a new Eps II Malibu is right around the corner). A Cadillac is around $34k. These prices are now.
Is this enough deliniation? No I do not think so. Buick needs to move the LaCrosse up a couple thousand closer to $27k and Cadillac needs to price the new, smaller Alpha at $29k. The slightly larger than mid size CTS will be closer to $39k. Of course GM needs to continue to make improvements to their vehicles to command these price increases. In the last 3 years they have done so. They just need to continue.
Aren't you used to that by now? :P
Yeah, the AA strike didn't bother me (or GM from what I can tell) that much, as it effected the barges. But with the Lambdas, the plant strike can get sticky quick!!
Where's Rock to help us through this?
We're used to it, but that doesn't make it right.
That's why this topic is so good because it's supposed to be positive about GM instead of serving as a forum for people with old news and opinions to bash GM.
Post #1,
"GM has had its share of troubles recently and even took a beating for its Super Bowl commercial, but the GM loyalists are willing to forgive all in the hopes that it will pull through and recover its status as the best manufacturer in the world.
Whether you agree or disagree with the company's business plan, this discussion will be focused on how the company can improve, not on how much you may hate it and want it to fail. " -Karen
Most people are keeping it positive and that's good.
BTW, where is Rockylee when we need him?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Yes it can.
As you say, it is going to be hard to keep enough separation between the lines / segments / groups, whatever's your poison. I just hope they have a definite separation (for lack of a better term) between them, not just something on paper. There shouldn't be any real overlap between them. I mean, for example, there will be some that will always buy the Buick, even though by the time they option up say, a LaCrosse, they are well into baby Caddy territory. But there should be something, options-colors-materials-powertrain, that helps put the two makes at different levels.
As I see it the CTS's price tag has been established by how it has been marketed. Cadillac should have dumped the STS when the new 2008 CTS was introduced and marketed it as the STS. They could have bumped up the content a bit more than they did and priced it higher. With a new RWD smaller Cadillac, the CTS can be moved up some pricewise, but sales will slow. Sales will probably slow with the introduction of a smaller Cadillac anyway.
I don't see GM making incremental improvements to justify higher price tags. Usually GM bumps prices up, perhaps with the intent of upgrading at the next major redesign, but with sales that drift downward as prices increase, the upgrades are not done.
I think there is something fundamentally wrong with Cadillac trying to compete with an entry-level Acura.
I think there is something fundamentally wrong with Cadillac trying to compete with an entry-level Acura.
I agree. I think the RWD 1 series is a better comparison.
year off right -- holding its share of the retail market in the first
three months with a stable of strong new products such as the Chevy
Malibu, Buick Enclave and Cadillac CTS.
GM captured 21.6% of retail sales in the U.S. market during the
January-March period, according to the latest estimates provided
exclusively to the Free Press by the Power Information Network, a
subsidiary of J.D. Power and Associates.
Crosstown rivals Chrysler LLC and Ford Motor Co., meanwhile, performed
poorly.
Among American consumers:
· GM is still No. 1, followed by Toyota, which has 18.6% of the market.
· Ford is No. 3, with Honda advancing quickly, with 12.4% of the
market.
· And Chrysler is No. 5, with Nissan not far behind.
Even Toyota gets the blues. The Japanese automaker has long prided
itself on a U.S. workforce more efficient than those at Detroit's
giants, and that has meant a cost advantage of hundreds or even
thousands of dollars per car. But as sales of its big trucks and SUVs
falter, Toyota has slowed assembly lines, leaving once-busy workers to
sweep floors or do team-building exercises rather than make cars. And
with the Detroit Three slashing payrolls and moving retiree benefits off
their books, Toyota's edge is disappearing.
Some of Toyota's U.S. plants are now more than 20 years old, and a
growing number of its workers are paid the top wage of about $25 an
hour. That's less than Detroit's veteran union hands make now, but a
contract inked last fall will enable U.S. automakers to replace many
highly paid employees with cheaper workers. By 2011, Toyota's cost
advantage over Detroit could disappear. "The Japanese automakers have
been here for almost 30 years," says Michael Robinet, an analyst at CSM
Worldwide, a Northville (Mich.) research firm. "They'll start to have
Big Three-like costs creeping in."
The savings add up. General Motors, for instance, has 74,500 workers. By
2011 GM will have about 68,000, and up to one-third of them will be
earning the lower wage, predicts McAlinden. If GM can get all the
buyouts it needs and hire cheaper labor to replace them, the company
could cut its wage bill by $2.7 billion annually by 2011, he says. That
adds up to $841 a car, or about half of the current cost differential
with Toyota.
A retiree health-care deal, which will give the United Auto Workers
union $36 billion in exchange for taking over medical insurance, should
save GM an additional $699 a car. That would turn Toyota's labor cost
advantage over GM of $1,394 per car to a $108 disadvantage by 2011,
McAlinden says.
Toyota is worried. Two sources close to the company say that by late
2009, Toyota's 23-year-old assembly plant in Georgetown, Ky., where most
workers are at the top of the pay scale, could have the highest labor
costs of any auto factory in the U.S. Toyota says that with bonuses,
some of its employees already make more than Detroit's unionized
workers. "I think [the Detroit automakers] could easily equal us or even
exceed us in terms of having lower labor costs," says Pete Gritton,
human resources chief for Toyota in North America. What to do? "There's
no single answer," he says.
Toyota's management is already on the case. To offset rising wages,
Toyota is pushing plants to get even leaner. The company has set up an
on-site medical center at its San Antonio factory as an experiment in
cutting health-care costs. Gritton says new hires will reach the top
wage after five years instead of three. And starting pay at a plant
being built in Mississippi will be lower than Toyota's traditional $16
an hour. "Toyota will react," McAlinden says. "They won't let GM get a
$100-a-car advantage."
And we plan on firing workers with no beni's when they reach 63. And health care will be available to all retirees if they show up at the in plant clinics. Toyota is sure we can supply all the possible health care our ex workers need right here in the plants. (OK I made that part up)
all-wheel drive. The AWD system, dubbed "Adaptive 4X4," will feature a
torque distribution setup that will help push the power to the wheels
that need it most.
Looks like the new Eps II platform will have awd available. So it is possible the new G6 could be based on the Eps II with AWD and keep the spirit of RWD performance.
Regards,
OW
Here's the link for those wanting to see the pic. Nice wheels.
Ah, another shot is here:
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.ef6dade/16429