Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
Options
General Motors discussions
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
I like that term "blog babble".
Two items of concern (among many others):
1 - Lutz returning: Can't we get rid of this guy? IMHO his capabilities are hugely overstated.
2 - Speaking of overstated capabilities - did you see the news report that Wagoner's pension is worth $10M? That's right, Rocky's excellent CEO! He spends 14 years helping destroy GM while taking home tens of $millions, then he takes a $10M pension from GM (my pocket and your pocket) for his failures. I need a job like that.
And Putz is still in the fold.
Yup, huge amount of effort shown for the 50 billion they got. :sick:
I agree with you to this extent - if they're not DEAD [non-permissible content removed] SERIOUS about it, and you can tell they are not, they should shut the doors forever. If they were serious, there would only be two brands, Cadillac and Chevrolet, everything else would be shuttered, and I mean NOW, not phased out by the end of 2010 like Pontiac! They won't even make it until the end of 2010 if they don't get serious now.
Cut our losses, and let's quit. Let Ford be the North American Car Company.
With less brands comes more money per brand - marketing, product development, etc.
We'll see.
To me that's not a bad thing. I think he is a legitimate car guy, dudes. Too legit to quit, though, one might ask? I'm not in that camp. I think the guy should go about working hard on his golf game and let Government Motors do their stuff.
Whatever that might be.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
But, Lutz's intention was to build a cheap, affordable roadster for the masses and figuratively and literally, he succeeded. :sick:
Check out the comments there from the GM social media communications director.
(That's a static pic - here's the link to the real thing)
I'm gonna go tell them that they just lost a sale because Cobalt and Aveo are junk.
Also, Ford I think posted a profit little as it was. It could be a sign.
Alot of people are waiting on their Fiesta to debut in America. I believe it will be a best seller as long as they don't dumb it down too much. :shades:
"GM has structured its new-car foray with Ebay in a way allows consumers to comfortably shop online and even initiate the purchase process but it doesn't raise the ire of dealers because it fully involves them on a voluntary basis.
California dealers can list vehicles in their inventories with prices on Ebay. The inventories will consist of select new 2008, 2009 and 2010 Chevrolet, Buick, Pontiac and GMC models; Cadillac as well as Hummer and Saturn, which are both being sold, are excluded. Cadillac opted out of the Ebay program for the launch but may join after it sees early results for the other divisions, said Mark LaNeve, GM's U.S. sales chief.
Already 90 percent of GM's 250 California dealers have signed on and are listing about 20,000 vehicles, he added."
California GM Dealers List Cars on Ebay (AutoObserver)
California GM Dealers To List Cars on eBay This Week
GM Hints That Its eBay Experiment May Go Nationwide Shortly
What's the point? There is no bidding. The buy it now price on the Cobalt I just looked up, for example, is about halfway between invoice and msrp minus $1500 rebate. Otherwise, you submit an offer .... huh ... gee ... just like if I went to the dealership.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
The first ever G6!
"Since the program launched, Edmunds.com has observed that the number of site visitors conducting GM vehicle pricing research has jumped ten percent higher in California than it has in the other 49 states. However, GM consideration growth is flat relative to other states in the same time period. This suggests that the program appeals to car shoppers who had existing interest in GM products, but it is not generating any new interest.
Edmunds.com’s analysts estimate that eBay “buy it now” prices are on average two percent higher than average market price. On a $25,000 vehicle, that equates to about $500."
Businesswire.com
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Unfortunately, the "suit" that came up with this wet dream cut and pasted dealer album photos of the car, so you really don't get to see what you are buying.And I've bought plenty of cars off of eBay.
My father bought a new Cadillac one time, its finish (a light grey) varied from fender to fender. I didn't have the heart to tell him that his "new" car had probably been in a wreck or at the very least in a paint shop.He eventually figured it out on his own when the car developed other problems.
Besides the bogus pricing structure, someone obviously had a mission just to get hits on eBay. That part worked
As far as sales- the effort is a bad joke.
Chevy Hates on Imports and Hollywood With Ad Campaign (Inside Line)
But it's a lot better than reading all the GM bashing that still continues. Those days have gone. It's a new GM. Time for change and hope for a new cadre of cars from GM.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Let's see:
- they didn't change their name
- they didn't remove the UAW
- they still have Lutz
- they are still talking about rebadging Vues and Aveos as Buicks
Not "new" enough. :mad:
I like the VW ads with the old Beetle stepping up to the mike (mic?).
VW ads in the 60s were state of the art (no pun intended). I recall an English professor using them as examples in class--probably before most of you can remember.
GM needs some really good focus group work, which they seem to have done, since the ads aren't particularly hitting my sweet spot. But I'll bet they tested to be very good with people younger who used to buy foreign.
What GM must do is change the aura of the dealerships and the service areas. They need a fresh do over. The service area for the Chev dealer where I bought the Cobat is lightyears ahead of the dealership where I bought several Buicks and they also sell Chev (Pontiac) GMC.
The service area inside parking entrance is brownstone (fake rubber mat, but looks like a brownstone driveway). The service manager is a fresh young upstart. And he does everything exactly right. It's the old but often unlearned WOW technique. When you've talked to him and things are being done or are finished, I find myself saying, "WOW, that was easy." He's a service manager who's customer oriented. I believe lots of US line dealerships are still business oriented and operated in terms of guidelines of what's best for the parent company and what's best for the dealership's bottom line.
The new GM dealerships must leave a good feeling which I would parallel to buying something through Amazon with a few clicks after an easy, accurate search, having the seller email acknowledgement of your order and paymetn through Amazon within hours, having it shipped the next business day by the seller, having a tracking number in the email telling me it shipped, and having it arrive in 1, 2 or 3 business days.
I heard three dealership representatives in Louisville on a talkshow talking about the difference people experienced with buying and owning the popular foreign brands compared to buying and owning the US brands through the last many years. They understood and said a big difference was in the process of ownership and they meant the interaction with the dealership over problems. An example might be that a transmission has started giving problems at 50K miles after warranty. With the certain other foreign brands it was replaced with little hassle. While that's expensive and the buyer paid for it in the price of the car, that's what it should be.
The new GM has to strive for that satisfaction. The process of ownership has to change at some dealerships.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
And yeah, a good dealer can even make living with a lemon tolerable.
Yes, it's a new GM. Just like the old GM. Wishing it was the even older GM.
Let's see, recycling Chevys as another nameplate, just like the old GM.
Too many brands, just like the old GM
Ads talking about the good old days, just like the old GM
Doing dumb things like targeting Honda in their ads, when Honda buyers buy Hondas, not cars. Just like the old GM.
Yep, it's a new GM allright. Those days of GM doing stupid things like rebadging compacts and subcompacts to sell as a supposedly "upscale" brand, and advertising anything but their actual vehicles are SO long gone.
You know, there's this bridge I'd like to sell you. Great view of Brooklyn... :shades:
GM has many challenges--the worst of which is the concept that foreign brands deliver better gas mileage, higher quality, and lower ownership costs. I like the new Chevy ads but they need to put more value in the equation. Specifically, if your Malibu costs less to own/operate than comparable Camrys and Accords over five years, then push that hard. If it doesn't, then figure out how to make it do so (i.e. lower the price).
I believe one of the big challenges is the large cadre of people who are out to bash GM. They don't operate in current time; they operate from problems in 90s typically. It's like a political push about a Washington agenda. Every time they post in anything GM, even a positive titled forum, they kvetch about their 1989 Suburban. Nevermind all the problems foreign cars have had. Look at all the problems the mid-sized foreign offerings in the popular makes had with redesigned models: steering lead problems, creaking in the body going over twists, brakes wearing out quickly, transmissions failing regularly (of course they were replaced in some cases under the higher price warranty), transmissions having problems shifting in some situations leading to dangerous lag times, AC compressors failing, V6 engines having vibrations going in and out of the mode shutting down cylinders, lines carrying oil to the control for variable valves leaking outside the motor, and with some cars _rust_, and on.
The manufacturers of some car lines have been able to extend their reputation earned or gained in one period by careful advertising and with pushes on their image. But reality strikes. Read the Odyssey forum here on transmission troubles there (hasn't Honda figured out how to do transmissions?); Honda isn't covering the replacements in many cases. People stayed happy earlier when Honda replaced their transmission 2 and in some cases three times before 100,000K and then said "It's your baby from now on." The higher profit in the purchase price they were able to glean from eager customers helped make that possible as a secret warranty system that US makers couldn't do or didn't want to do due to their higher costs of manufacturing.
I recall about 2003 when posters bragged how the two leading cars didn't have to use rebates like the US brands (although they did have dealer incentives in some cases). Soon they were using _rebates_. So the bubbles can burst.
How does GM advertise to change the image and minimize the impact of the lobby of those trying to make the new GM fail?
How does GM change the public perception of the cars. One is change the dealership. One area dealer just remodeled their facility. just remodeled their facility.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
GM should look at what Hyundai has done as a business model. They came on the scene making complete junk and now rank among the best. Yes, they still are joked upon, but the reality is they make great cars at affordable prices.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
Sometimes companies NEVER can come back, if they screwed it up badly enough, no matter what they do.
Many years ago, I said something like "All of Cadillac's former customers would need to grow old and die before Cadillac becomes a prestige brand again".
And that is exactly what happened. The only way to erase Cadillac's past was to have it forgotten by anyone who had to live through it.
Maybe GM will just have to be patient :P
Why? Anything from a Cobalt SS to a Camaro will outperform it in virtually every area. How about bringing back the spirit of the Chevelle in a thoroughly modern car? Provided they don't go nuts on pricing, I'll be buying a Camaro SS convertible the day it hits the dealerships.
If anything, GMs lagging technology has hurt their image. Doubt that? Look at the two GM brands that enjoy some prestige---Corvette and Cadillac---both are easily the most hi-tech in the product line.
But yeah, GM hasn't been a tech leader in a long time, and when they were leaders, they were always "almost" there (airbags, FI, etc) and didn't complete the job (but in both cases, MB did). If GM could get away with it, I suspect they'd still be using carbs in their mainstream cars today.
Nevermind all the problems foreign cars have had....
The manufacturers of some car lines have been able to extend their reputation earned or gained in one period by careful advertising and with pushes on their image....
The higher profit in the purchase price they were able to glean from eager customers helped make that possible as a secret warranty system that US makers couldn't do or didn't want to do due to their higher costs of manufacturing.
OK, there's some truth in all of that. The market may have some irrationality, but so what? It is what it is. Undoubtedly most Americans would *prefer* to buy American brands. If they have chosen to NOT buy American brands, they have been driven away in spite of their desire to buy American. And THAT is very telling as to the poor quality of the American products. For each of the problems of the foreign brands, the reality is that MORE people have been driven *away* than driven *towards* American brands. No amount of frustration will change that. No amount of feeling the unfairness of how hard it is to regain customers is going to change how the market works. Where were all the MBA's at GM who didn't realize that a reputation is easy to lose and hard to regain? This is the market and that is how it works!
How does GM advertise to change the image and minimize the impact of the lobby of those trying to make the new GM fail?
1 - First of all, GM needs to prioritize great products over advertising. The way this question is worded presumes that ADVERTISING is the answer, and that is wrong! We've been hearing about the Volt and 3 kinds of hybrids for about 4 years from GM and they still have only *crap* in the hybrid space! They have one decently competitive mid sized sedan and NOTHING at the entry level that is remotely competitive! There's been so much apple pie and motherhood from this company that any sane individual wants to puke! Put some of that advertising budget into THE PRODUCT!
2 - GM products have been improving, but don't expect 30 years of junk to be won back with 3 models! This is a marathon, and after running one mile you don't say "where is the finish line"! How about running 25 more miles and doing it well? (In this case, come up with 25 more models that are very good to EXCELLENT). At this point, it is "call back in 5 years and show good progress" and "come back in 10 years and show you have done it". Like Hyundai. Not like GM, yet. Hyundai's crap reputation peaked probably in the late 80's or early 90's. GMs crap reputation probably peaked in the early 2000's. They are running about 10 years behind Hyundai.
3 - It's really unfortunate that they did not change their name at least somewhat. "New GM", "General Motor Company", something connected to the past but with a clear message that this is different. IMHO that is MORE important than more motherhood, Chevrolet, and apple pie. Tell us you are REALLY different now, GM. Tell us with your name. And tell us with your products.
All of the above is MHO. But it's likely to be a much better approach than Wagoner's. I only need $3 mill a year to start, a real deal. :shades:
Ford seems to be doing OK. And how's Mini doing, anyway? :shades:
Of course, GM seems to be addicted to the past and they're doing terribly. Last night they had that Sierra commercial on that said nothing about the Sierra..just talked about how GMC equipment built the Interstate, and Route 66, and the Kennedy Space Center, so of course so of course you want to own today's GMC that has nothing to do with all of the heavy equipment they provided for those projects, right?
And exactly how many people already HAVE a cellphone and therefore already have one in the car and don't need a built-in one?
That gets to me...OnStar is just a carphone. They try to trumpet it as a tech marvel for getting directions and help....and it's just a carphone from the 70s. While everyone is carrying cellphones in their pockets. Sad.
Seems to me that, by the fact of their name, products, and actions, they ARE telling us something. They're telling us that nothing has changed, and they're going to keep doing business the way they always have.
Which is of course a problem, as that landed them in bankruptcy. But hey, what do we know? We're just potential consumers for their products, saying what it would take for them to earn our business, right? Obviously we know nothing and are not important enough to pay attention to.
Which has always been there attitude and is another part of the problem. :shades: