Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
Options
General Motors discussions
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
Here the questions everyone's been asking, and GM's answer.
Does the customer receive a full refund on his/her purchase price?
The customer will receive the purchase price of the vehicle itself after any rebates, discounts, plus applicable sales taxes that were actually paid. The customer's buyback price does not include anything else. For example, the buyback price does not include any other taxes, licensing, titling or registration fees, insurance, accessories, dealer fees, extended warranties, finance charges, negative equity or any other expenses incurred by the customer at the time of taking delivery of the new vehicle.
So from what I understand, you'll get everything back except dealer doc fees, or other extra charges. If 100% of the vehicle purchase price plus fees were financed obviously with $0 down, and GM cuts a check back for the sale price plus tax, you'll be left to pay off the doc fee, registration fees immedietaly to the bank/loan co.
So say you buy a vehicles that's $25000 plus $300 doc fee, plus $100 finance charge plus 10% taxes = $27940. You return the vehicle. GM cuts you a check for $25000 plus 10% tax = $27500, and you're out $440 for this 2 month excercise.
Say you also added on negative equity of $5000. Now you're out the $440, plus you owe $5000 extra from your old loan that I assume would be due immedietaly.
How many people that carry over negative equity have extra $5k laying around?
Now say you pay cash for the vehicle. You'd just be out the dealer's doc fee and insurance fees if you return it. But if the car has more than $200 damage then it's automatically disqualified from being eligible. So for those that think they can get a free 2 month rental think again. You end up with something as small as a hood and window chip and you may be disqualified and stuck with a vehicle you never intended to keep in the first place.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Best way to take advantage of this is to get a NO Deductible insurance policy and pay for the car in-full CASH buyer. No finance charges that way, and interest rates are so low the opportunity cost is nil really. If the car gets damaged beyond $200, take it to a body shop that does repairs quickly within the 60 day period and you'll be fine!
Imagine that, getting a $30,000 car that was repaired for 20,000 in damages with 3,999 miles on it at the dealer lot for sale "like-new" hahaha, this is going to be a big scam!
I would say yes, Insurance companies will be on the hook for GM's program.
Furthermore, how will the dealers know if your vehicle has been repaired??? You don't have to tell them, and they probably won't know if the body shop is any good.
Lastly, the cost appears to be about $1,000 for a 2 month rental. So I change my statement to a HIGH COST rental car program for 2 months at $1,000. That's an extremely expensive rental. Does GM really think people are stupid enough to consider this a "no cost" 60 day assurance program when people who opt out get a lower price by $500?
That is ridiculous, obviously, the direct cost of this warranty/guarantee is $500. It is like an extended warranty, only different. There is no benefit to the consumer here, you are paying for it all. Also, there's so many loopholes where you could lose eligibility, that it is ridiculous. The fine print makes the program worthless and useless.
I don't understand what you mean by this, but obviously they won't take back a car with any damage over $200. If you use your insurance for repairs, they will show up on carfax or antoher report somehwere.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Just like if you buy a plasma tv for example, and while loading your friend drops one end breaking the screen. The store is not obligated to take it back under their satisafaction guarantee because the goods are damaged now and not in as new condition.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
This will be the nail in GM's coffin.
Sort of like E85, and 4 years of early Volt advertising. It means nothing, it gives you nothing, but it is something to advertise and might bring people into the store to look, which is the goal.
With E85 virtually nobody actually uses the fuel, it has terrible mileage, it doesn't save you any money, and it is environmentally a disaster (corn-ethanol). GM pumped this up when they had no hybrids to speak of and gas was >$4/gallon. With the Volt, who cares what car is supposed to come out in 4 years? It was a lot of noise and smoke to cover for no decent hybrids and no decent strategy for the day when gas prices went up.
With the 60 day policy, virtually nobody will actually use it. So the cost to GM is near zero and it gives them something to market, some positive news. Not really a bad ploy when you have no clothes. (at least in the E85 and Volt cases)
Is Carfax really that FAST at updating their databases???
I'm talking about if through no fault of your own some idiot bad driver rear-ends you damaging the vehicle. It would be their insurance company on the hook, not your own. If you were intending on returning the vehicle, you had that right prior to the accident, but now you don't thanks to GM's fine print. Therefore, in order to "make you whole" said idiot driver's insurance would have to "buy back" the vehicle or you'd of only lost that right due to idiot driver's negligence.
Lastly, you don't normally have insurance on a TV like you do a Car.
A legit BK ridding them of the UAW could have saved them. The Gov't sponsored farce of a BK really didn't help them that much. The $80 billion we gave them did though, so now they're safe for one more year.
Fall 2010 the U.S. taxpayers will have re-up another $50 billion get them to 2011.
If it all wasn't so sad, I'd be LMAO. As it is I'll be sorry to see them fail come 2011.
:shades:
So which vehicle would be more fun for a 60 day beat run?
Yes, for impala; no, for for "Z" corvette.
I hope the brains at GM have thought about the ramifications of doing this and as others have pointed out the huge pitfalls.
I just know there are a LOT of people out there who will take huge advantage of this at GM's expense and GM can't afford any more expense!
I understand what you're saying but insurance company is not obligated to buy a car back because there's a return policy on it that you ca't use now due to someone else's fault. You'll have to sue the guilty party for depreciated loss.
No matter if an item is insurable or not, once you damage it, you can't return it. That goes for everything and anything that's retailed like stereos, cars, bicycles, toasters whatever.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
It happens rarely but it does happen. The monetary loss to that consumer under this program is less than what it would be by trading the vehicle in the traditional way. So if you bought a vehicle and you absolutely hated it you can take a $4k loss by trading it in, or you can lose about $1k in fees, insurance and registration costs under this program and walk away. So although you did suffer a loss you're still a few grand ahead if you went the other route.
I think the people that are really negative about it are ones that thought this would be an easy and free 60 day GM rental with no strings attached that they could take advantage of. But now that the details came out they're ticked off that it's not the case.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Not entirely true, if I buy an electronic item from a store that has a no questions aksed 30 day return policy, as long as the item is in "like-new" condition, they have to accept it.
Therefore, if my brand new TV is in the back trunk of my car when you rear end me, your insurance company will have to cover the replacement cost of that brand new TV, or they can repair it and I could return it.
Let's say I dent a plastic trim piece. If I'm able to research the part number from the chinese manufacturer that makes that piece, and I'm able to install it in place of the damaged part, the TV could be returned as it is in the same condition as when purchased. Best Buy nor any store I know of makes special exceptions for "accidents" as long as it is restored to like new condition. Furthermore, how would they ever know it had been repaired if the repair was done competently?
Do you work for a fraudulent insurance company?
Exactly, it's gotta be in like new condition. Meaning it can't be damaged. No store will accept a damaged TV and give your money back.
So why should GM accept a damaged vehicle and give your money back? You can't search for damage history on electronic products, but on vehicles you can. So even if you repair it, and when returning it, misrepresent it that it never had an accident, and GM finds out later, I'm sure you'll be getting a letter from their lawyers, because upon return you will be signing documents stating that the vehicle had no accidents.
What's the big deal about this no accident clause anyways? You buy the vehicle with the intent of owning it, now with the intent of returning it. It's not like you're losing your car if an accident does happen. You're just losing the ability to return it. The damages will be covered by the insurance company anyways. And no, they don't owe you a return policy or a new car.
And no I don't work for an insurance company, let alone a fraudulent one. What does that have to do with anything anyways?
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Yes, GM makes it clear in the fine print they don't care if you repair the damage, if it has been in an accident, then they don't want it back. That part is clear. You'd have to lie to them to get your way here, or better yet, cross that line out of the contract in the sales office at purchase time and see it they will still sign it. If they don't accept that deletion of the fine print line item about accidents from the contract, then you shouldn't play ball, and walk away. No one is putting a gun to your head to accept GM's terms and conditions, you have a right to use the ink in your pen when dealing with contracts and scratch out the clauses you don't like. Then said dealership has a right to sign it or not sign it.
Try telling that to your insurance company.
cross that line out of the contract in the sales office at purchase time and see it
they will still sign it. If they don't accept that deletion of the fine print line item about accidents from the contract, then you shouldn't play ball, and walk away. No one is putting a gun to your head to accept GM's terms and conditions, you have a right to use the ink in your pen when dealing with contracts and scratch out the clauses you don't like. Then said dealership has a right to sign it or not sign it.
A dealership has no ability to override GM's fine print of their warranty/guarantee so crossing something that no dealership has control over is pointless. They'll tell you to take a hike, or take the $500 extra discount if you don't like the provisions of the guarantee.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
I don't think GM is in any position to be turning away ANY customers at this point. They should treat me like an owner, because all Americans are owners of GM. As such, they should be calling ME to ask for contract waivers, afterall, it's my tax money that owns GM.
Yes that's nice.
So do you ever go up to a police officer and tell him to give you his gun and his car because after all your taxes paid his salary and your taxes paid for his gun and his cop car, so he should follow your orders and give you his stuff because afterall your tax money owns all police dept equipment.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Oh well, it is what it is... At least I know that I have really test driven this GM car and know that I will NOT return after all of this. No return policy or sugary coated car is going to convince otherwise. Based on experiences had with this car and the fact I just don't trust them! GM has to earn their trust back. Ask yourself if they would have changed if the government didn't get involved?
Slow down before signing anything. Its not worth the headache, even if its only for 3yrs.
While that is true, you are discounting the still valid point that that fine-print can be crossed off by the dealer, and the dealer personally will do the buyback of an auto that has been in ana accident, fixed, and returned within 60 days.
Andres3 does have a point that in this market the Buyer is in charge, not the seller. If I go shopping for a TV, refrigerator, or other large item I always negotiate for something further off even if the item is on sale or has rebates. I always ask for free delivery, an extended warranty, or more money off from the manager. If they don't agree, you head for the door. It's amazing how many times you get what you want. Why? The choice for the Seller at that point is either make a little or lose a sale and make nothing.
No dealer is ever going to give a customer a 60 day full money back return policy, especially on a 60 day old car with accident history. Not unless they want to go bankrupt by making stupid and risky decisions that can backfire at them. It just doesn't make any business sense. A car is not like a fr4idge or TV that you can put back on the shelf and sell like new. Once a car is titled, it can never be resold as new. And of course customers want huge discounts on used cars, even if they're 2 months old. So why would the dealer set themselves up for such a money losing scheme?
And I agree the buyer is in charge. But that doesn't mean they can dictate to the dealer to override manufacturer's terms and conditions for warranties or other things that they have no control over anyways.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
After reading the rules, I doubt there will be many returned cars however. It sure sounds like they keep sales tax and license money and the 200.00 damage limit will disqualify a lot of cars. Heck a minor door ding can ost more than 200.00 to fix.
I suppose they had to try SOMETHING?
I don't think there will be many returned vehicles either. But notice they don't advertise it as a 100% money back guarantee because it isn't.
And yeah you gotta give them credit for trying something at least.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
If the car is repaired correctly there really is no difference between a 2 month old-car that hasn't been in an accident and 1 that has been. If the car had been in a parking lot accident at 5 mph causing $1,500 damage and the bumper and light are fixed, a $20K car is going to be worth $16K no matter what.
And dealers or GM wouldn't lose a lot on this as the percentage of people who have accidents is very small. If I were a dealer and could sell an additional 20 cars/month like this, I would take the slim chance 1 of the vehicles might be in an accident, and I would have to buy the vehicle back for $20K, and resell it for $16K. Big deal - I lost $4,000 - about the amount of 1 C4C deal that the government doesn't like the paperwork on.
It is a big deal. Dealers who take risks like that and operate on a loss don't last very long. Plus it's not certain that you'll sell an extra 20 cars a month this way. And what if 10 cars come back with accidents. What if the accidents are more than $15k, what if they're $8k hits? Then the dealer is looking at a bigger loss. It's way to risky to have and promote such a return policy. Just opens up a can of worms. If GM wouldn't think it's a big deal, then trust me, that accident clause would not be in there.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
This is the same company groveling at the feet of Congress for handouts to keep the doors open after decades of failure while rewarding goons like Wagoner with 10 million dollars in parting gifts. Or whining about the demise of the American Auto Industry while turning to their efforts towards global operations in Korea, China and Mexico, in turn kicking their own emplyees to the curb, closing multiple plants across the states.
How many shareholders lost their shirts earlier this year?
What's that? We won't see a penny of that 50 billion we gave them? Oh yeah, that's right the taxpayers gave it to them as a gift. Something to pay for the golden parachuhttes now and in the future. :sick:
Not surprising that they'll let the dealers pick up the tab with this idiotic gimmick. They're nothing but pawns.
What happens to the returned cars? Can they be sold as new?
Some were arguing that GM should be refunding money on vehicles even with accident history. Then someone else mentioned that if GM is refusing to do it, then the dealer should do so by "crossing out" that clause (if history of more than $200 in damages then the car is not returnable) for customers. I said that no dealer is ever going to do that.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Read my post above.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
I guess you really won't know what their intentions are until they bring it back. In my case I certainly would not tell them what I'm planning before I drive it home. Just wondered if anyone came right out and said that while sitting across the sales desk.
I've studied the fine print and see no poison pill loopholes. The only thing I'd be out is whatever gas I buy and maybe 2 months worth of insurance premiums. Anyone want to take a new Camaro 2SS or a Z06 Vette for a free 60-day joyride?
Hooboy, I see nothing but trouble for GM with this offer. If upstanding citizens like you are considering the 60 day joy ride, even in jest, there must be a ton of low-lifes who are actually going to try it.
A few years ago Mitsubishi offered "no payments" for the first year in an attempt to boost sales. A bunch of people drove the cars free for a year and then walked away without paying anything
Just a dumb marketing move IMO.
P.S. I foresee a whole lot of GM "demos" with 4000 miles on them coming on the market in a few months.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
But those people paid a penalty by destroying thier credit.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
So.. there is your fine print.. The cost of the return option? $500
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
GM 60-day Satisfaction Guarantee
You'll be out your DMV fees, and dealership doc fees. So if you buy a vehicle and negotiate an OTD price, but on paper the dealer doc fee with be $500, that's money you won't get back from GM. So it might cost you a bit more than just insurance policy for 2 months.
Alos if the car has more than $200 damage then it's automatically disqualified from being eligible. So for those that think they can get a free 2 month rental think again. You end up with something as small as a hood and window chip and you may be disqualified and stuck with a vehicle you never intended to keep in the first place.
Be careful.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
There's a good chance you'll be paying $2,000.00 when you drop the car off after two months of driving. $1,000.00 would be a minimum charge.
The price and hassles of taking advantage of the 60-Day Guarantee are not small.
This is NOT a Wal-Mart no questions ask cash back return.
I'm sure that's gonna work.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Yes, I'm sure it would, too. If you are being sarcastic, explain your logic. Do you really think the dealer would rather refund your money, put it back on his lot and wait for someone to come along who isn't smart enough to realize they could take a new one for 60 days, drive it for free, return it and pick it up used off the lot the next day? Take advantage of their ongoing stupidity and save 2-5 grand---- why pay new car price? After all, they are putting 'their' money where their mouth is, right? Government/UAW Motors deserves to crash and burn for that arrogant statement alone.