By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
It would make for a nice Lincoln but it won't work for a lower priced Ford - won't replace the Panther platform or the Mustang platform and can't be used in Australia. It's too small to be a flagship like the 750i, Lexus LS or S-class. Naturally aspirated you're limited to 300 hp.
Contrast that to building a new platform that can be used for both the Aussie and NA Ford vehicles at a lower price point and improved for use on a larger Lincoln flagship with american V8 power and costs that can be amortized over hundreds of thousands of units.
Given that Lincoln hadn't started either option last year I don't think there is any way to get one to market more quickly than the other. Either way we'd be waiting another 2 or 3 years (I don't think it will take 4 years - they've been working on this since last summer already).
Including developing an all new platform? Sorry, can't buy that one. Tweaking a platform, hanging new sheetmetal and/or a new interior - sure.
And I agree that red tape was a big problem at Ford before Mulally got there. The BOD had to approve capital expenditures. No wonder it took years to get a project started. I know some of that is gone thanks to AM taking back control of the capital budget, but I'm sure some of it remains. Ford needs to get leaner and meaner. It would be a lot easier if the platforms and drivetrains were already here.
I just read today that the new boss 6.2L engine will appear first in the Navigator this fall with power ratings of 450/425. This is a combination of rumors with some insider information so I wouldn't say it's set in stone, but we do know the 6.2L is coming early next year in the F150 so it's possible.
V8s on the wane according to Edmunds.com study
That thing got an EcoBoost?
The 5.4L is finally getting an upgrade but Ford hasn't released specs yet - they're playing possum with the F150 competition. At least the Navi got the 6 speed tranny a couple of years ago. It does desperately need new sheetmetal.
If nobody told you they shared a platform you'd never know it. If you're simply referring to the fact that it uses a FWD based platform with a transverse V6 then say that, but implying that it's just a Taurus is wrong (for a change).
While the Mustang will be restyled in 2010, it will not offer an independent rear suspension.
I haven't heard anything about this, insider or otherwise - what's your source? I do know that it's scheduled to get a new 5.0L aluminum block DOHC V8 making at least 400 hp. And a new interior. Have you seen the interiors of the Challenger and Camaro? They make the current mustang interior look like a top of the line Mercedes. The mustang has always been out-powered but has never been outsold.
there will be no MKR or any other rear drive performance oriented world class motor car
Mulally says you're wrong, and I think I'll believe him more than you.
I don't think the MKZ sharing a platform with a Ford is a problem at all. The issue again was also sharing the same body and most of the body panels as well, except for the superficial clip differences. The MKS is not a Taurus, with Lincoln going the distance to give it its own body, engine, wheelbase and exclusive options. The problem with the MKS is not that it is a gussied up Ford (like a Montego), but that the Taurus platform was the only choice to get a car out now, and the naturally aspirated 3.7 was the only available engine. So it is going to be panned for that. But it will sell well enough anyway.
Like Allen (Allan? Alan?) I don't understand why Ford powertrains take so long to come to market, or why it is so difficult for them to give Lincoln some exclusive extra horses. If we are still hearing "just wait and see what's coming" in 2010 or so, then Lincoln may also go the way of Oldsmobile and Packard.
I agree that they've only got a couple of years to catch up. But every indication I've seen is that Fields and Kuzack are really fast tracking important projects. I just heard the new 5.0L engine referred to as a "crash" program. And we know the 09 Fusion wasn't supposed to get the 3.5L at first but now it will. You can thank Fields and Kuzack for the ideas but you can thank Mulally for the backing to do it and do it quickly.
The biggest problem is that so many things were neglected for so long that they have a lot to fix with limited resources.
No, it's not. I know of 3 new V8s currently being developed: aluminum block DOHC 5.0L to replace the 4.6L, 6.2L Boss to eventually replace the 5.4L and a new 4.4L Turbo Diesel. These will be used in RWD trucks and the mustang for now along with direct injection/turbo and NA V6s.
The MKS is not the future flagship - it's only labeled that way by default. Mulally has already confirmed that Lincoln will have new RWD platforms and that it will be engineered jointly with Ford Australia who have been making and selling RWD performance cars forever. With the impending sale of Jag this leaves the door open for Lincoln to move up with a real RWD V8 flagship but as we have gotten used to saying - not for a couple of years at least.
No, we don't know. As I said I think the decision to kill it was made before any plans of that type had started.
why isnt the MKS the horsepower leader in it's segment...This isnt rocket science Ford
It isn't exactly easy, either. They're behind the technology curve as far as engines go and they're trying to catch up. At least now they're trying to catch up whereas 2 years ago they were cancelling new engine projects.
No, it's the NEW Falcon platform that just started development. It will be a GLOBAL platform used by both North America and Australia. There is a HUGE difference between global engineering and platform sharing and rebadging.
Ford dropped the Yamaha V8 from the MKR citing cost as a factor.
It was the MKS and that's only half the story - it was more costly AND produced less power than the 3.5L Ecoboost V6. They've already confirmed at least 340 hp and better mileage from the 3.5L TTGDI compared to the 315 hp yamaha V8. Who doesn't want cheaper, more fuel mileage and more power?
Some people seem to complain just for the sport of it.
Where to start? The MKS concept was the same as the production vehicle - D3 FWD based AWD with a transverse mounted Yamaha V8 making 315 hp and 325 lb/ft of torque. It was NEVER RWD and it NEVER produced 400 hp. Maybe you're getting the MKS confused with the Interceptor or MKR. The 4.4L Yamaha V8 was available in the 2006 Volvo XC90 so they obviously have a transmission for it. The fact is the Ecoboost 3.5L TTGDI will make more hp and torque AND be cheaper.
As for global platforms - do you honestly think that MB and BMW have USA only platforms? They sell their cars worldwide with the U.S. being the smallest market. They already have global platforms and can spread the cost among a much larger global volume. That's where Ford is trying to go.
Stop assuming that the new GRWD platform will be crap just because it comes from down under. It would be extremely stupid for Ford to ignore the experience that the Aussies have had with RWD all these years just so they can say something was designed totally in the U.S.A. That's how they got into this mess to begin with.
As long as the doors are different........
So what are you saying? That the Fusion and Edge really ARE the same vehicle, simply because they bear a relationship with the Mazda6??
I didn't bring the MKZ and MKX into the discussion, because I believe they are pretty much the same vehicles as the Fusion and Edge, and therefore not truly worthy of the Lincoln moniker. So, no, vehicles like the MKZ and MKX are not at the level of class a Lincoln really nees to be. They are not in the "Cadillac class," as you put it.
But Lincoln can do better, and the architecture if basically well-engineered will not limit that. The Audi A3 and VW Golf share the same archtitecture, but the A3 remains a very worthy small Audi. Same with the TT off the same architecture. The A7 and Tuareg share the saem platform, but the A7 is not a Tuareg. The A4 also shares some underpinnings with VW. The Volvo S40 and European Escort share a platform, yet the S40 is a fine small Volvo. If the MKR and Ford Interceptor come about, let them both share the same high quality platform. The Interceptor will still be a much bigger sedan than the MKR and the two will bear no more resemblance than if one had been built by Pontiac and the other by Cadillac.
But this argument is pointless. Lincoln can use its own exclusive platforms or use ahigh quality corporate platform. I frankly don't care. Either way, it won't matter if the resulting cars aren't well-styled and engineered to run with the front of the pack.
In the comments to that blog, Jriz suggests for the Focus C-C - "Throw a Lincoln grille on it and voila, you have a decent, unique luxury product."
And no, using DEW shouldn't put Lincoln over $45000, after all the Jag XF starts under $50K so the Lincoln using much cheaper interior bits, no CATS suspension, etc could start at under $45K with little trouble yet be the Lincoln flagship. But what do I know? It's easier to compete with Buick than Cadillac anyway.
Welcome to the new Lincoln.
Just to be provocative, and get the discussion going again, I again say there is no reason for an exclusive platform (since you keep repeatedly calling for one), as long as they start with a quality platform, and give it some Lincoln-ness: great and exclusive styling, great performance, and that gotta have quality like some past Lincolns (60s Continental, Mark III, 84-87 rear drive Continental, Mark VII LSC...the 50s Mark II would be on the list as well, but it was too expensive for the market at that time). The LS was probably the best Lincoln ever built, but missed the "gotta have" part with too conservative styling.
Heck, even the 1988 Continental garnered some great press and outsold the Seville. The problem was the world moved on quickly by then, and Lincoln tried to stay with a Taurus V6 and a too long product cycle, rendering what had looked like a classy standout in 1987 into an old, tired and underpowered thing...only to be followed by the unspeakably boring 95 Continental.
Anyway, Lincoln has done good things with both exclusive and shared platforms, and has issued a lot of crap with both as well. It's the car, not the exclusive bends in the unibody underneath, that is going to make or break this division.
They already tried that with the XLR. Didn't work so well. The only thing Cadillac has done right recently is the new CTS and the Escalade. The STS and DTS are flops and will be replaced by a new larger vehicle - is this the one you're talking about competing with the S class? The SRX is a flop and can't even outsell a "gussied up Ford Edge" MKX.
I applaud the effort but this will have ZERO affect on Lincoln. They're not even trying to play in that league yet.
Yes, it's FWD but without the AWD option like the MKS. But the fact remains that Cadillac has cited slow sales of both models as the reason they will be merged into one new large car, presumably RWD.
And other than the CTS and Escalade they still don't have anything to compete with Lincoln (which shouldn't be that hard to do right now).
As for torque steer on the DTS, I hardly notice any at any speed. I often forget the car is FWD.
I could've got a new Lincoln Town Car for far less than my DTS, but then again, it's just a glorified Crown Victoria. The only advantage it has is its RWD configuration, but then you have to deal with an antiquated platform and a huge space-robbing transmission hump