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What was your impression of driving the Fit vs. the '06 Accent, Rio5, and Yaris? Maybe you could give us your impressions in the Low-End Cars discussion (since this one is not a comparision discussion).
ESP - um - the Civic doesn't even have it except as an option. It's an option on a RX-8 and a Volvo S40 as well, so let's put some perspective on it, okay?
I agree that ESP is not necessarily important for a small car. I believe Honda is only offering this standard on the US-market SUVs and vans anyway. I think it would be a good idea if the Fit had EBD (Electronic Brake Distribution) standard though.
Proper dash. Sorry, but I don't think the gauges belong in the center of the dash - call me odd...
I find it humorous in these times when many automakers are trying to minimize the need to take ones eyes off the road, some are moving the gauges to a completely unnatural position, like the center of the car. I suppose you could get used to it, but it would still be distracting having to move your eyes down and to the right just to see how fast you are going.
Another "Pro" I could list for the Fit is the movement of the fuel tank underneath the front seats. Not only does it allow for the room under the back seats, but it means that the driver seat will be up higher than normal, offering a better view of what's in front of the car. Couple this with the relatively tall height of the car, and this offers better visibility without sacrificing head room.
I think it would be good if Honda did not deviate from its current DX/LX/EX strategy on the Fit. What concerns me is the rumor that there will be a basic version and a sport version. If Honda puts electric windows/mirrors/locks, air conditioning, cruise control, and a CD player in the "basic" version, then fine, but I don't want to see a bare version, and then a fully loaded version. A middle of the road version is necessary for those who want some comfort and convenience, but don't need the sport trim and a spoiler.
Do exactly what they do in Japan. Two models. The only real differecne between the two is the fancier one has a larger engine and a sunroof. Both cars are decent little vehicles with no compromises.
I certainly won't buy the base model if I have to deal with manual windows, no A/C, a radio that's pathetic...(Describing the previous generation Civic DX, which nobody sane bought)
But please give us both engines and all the colors!
***EDIT** http://www.honda.co.jp/Fit/ This pulls up new pages on the fit! Most of them are in at least 30-40% english, so there's a lot of information now available! Enjoy!
Notable things I see: - sport mode in the 1.5L engine allows you to use paddle-shifters on the steering wheel! - the front seats recline seamlessly with the rears, creating a super-large recliner/sleeping arrangement. - picture of the side airbags(standard in Japan/USA for 2006) - rear window wiper! Also, defroster, standard. - locking gas cover(proper switch on the inside releases the door) - what looks like a bluetooth "smartcard" as an option in addition to a key - map lights(noteably missing on a Mini of all cars) - loooking at the interior storage shots, I see a Hollywood/Los Angeles map in the side map pockets. - rear storage areas that loook like they will fit a standard quart of oil. - more tie-down points and bins than you can imagine. - more movies of it driving around than you can imagine - And... A really cute AD. Just change the announcer at the end and you've got your first U.S. AD(most likely) It's under "CM"
Actually, in Japan the Fit has seven variations, and each offers a varying level of equipment. The 1,3Y is the cheapest version, and is very bare. It doesn't even have wheel covers. Then there is the 1.3A, 1.3W, 1.3S, 1.5A, 1.5W, and finally the top of the line 1.5S which has everything. This thing about having several options for one model is the same in Europe as well.
However, I think your idea is great. Offer just two models. One with the fuel efficient 1,3 i-DSI and the "Sport" version with the 1,5 VTEC. Offer power windows, mirrors, locks, cruise control, decent sound system, cruise control, and air conditioning in both models. Also, put a 5 speed and a CVT-7 in both models. Then for the "Sport" version maybe put some sport trim, a sunroof, and standard foglamps.
the front seats recline seamlessly with the rears, creating a super-large recliner/sleeping arrangement.
That's the "R" in "ULTR" (Utility-Long-Tall-Refresh). Don't plan on having that in the US though. Most models have that sort of thing in Japan, but they usually get rid of it when they export the models. My Accord has the "Refresh" mode in Japan, but the seats don't go far enough forward in either the US or European models to let them go down all the way. The Jazz in Europe, and the Fit in Mexico only have the "ULT". I think we can expect a similar arrangement to the Mexican Fit.
The Jazz in Europe, and the Fit in Mexico only have the "ULT". I think we can expect a similar arrangement to the Mexican Fit.
I expect the US/Canadian-market Fit to be that way, too. But the big selling point is the ability to fold up the rear seat bottoms to create an open cargo area in the center of the car, perfect for grocery shopping.
But the big selling point is the ability to fold up the rear seat bottoms to create an open cargo area in the center of the car, perfect for grocery shopping.
...and that is a very "tall" space indeed. According to Honda Japan's dimension figures, the distance between the floor and the ceiling on the Fit (1280mm / 50.4 in) is only 1 inch less than the former LaGreat (1st generation Odyssey), which had a space of 1305mm / 51.4 in.
Interesting front page story today in the WSJ on China's demand for oil, "China Continues To Fill Up on Oil, But Pace Slackens".
Check out this funny little tidbit buried in the article
"Car sales have slowed, with those consumers who are buying more often choosing vehicles with smaller, more fuel-efficient engines.
The Chinese government is promoting the fuel-efficiency trend. When visiting a Honda plant in China in September, Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao sat in a Honda Fit, a small, relatively fuel-efficient model, partly as a symbolic gesture to encourage Chinese consumers to buy smaller cars. "
Consumers in China are no different than anywhere else. Value for your dollar in terms of reliability and functionality is extremely high in the Fit(not counting microcars like the Smart Car, which is far better, but only seats two)
Honda also makes their CBR150R motorcycle. It's to the motorcycle world what the Fit is - small, efficient, and it has over 20HP as well as a top speed approaching what a Ninja 250 can do.
Even in China, they know the value that Honda represents in entry-level cars.
The Fit still looks like the class leader here and promising, but I guess I am not entirely ready to write off the Yaris yet. This will be a good battle, and I think the ultimate winner will be the consumer; soon, there will be no need to settle for an Aveo if you want a small car...
If you are referring to what raychuang00 said in post 810 about 2007, the discussion at that point was regarding whether the Fit would be sold as the current (first) or new (second) generation model. If Honda does indeed sell the 1st generation for a short time (starting in Spring 2006), we would only see the 2nd generation in the US in calendar year 2007. Which generation it will be is yet to be known.
I think the Fit will be sold as the new (second) generation model because if Honda was selling first generation they would show same photos an their website http://automobiles.honda.com/fit/ They’re waiting to show it at some Auto Show perhaps Detroit.
Car sales have slowed, with those consumers who are buying more often choosing vehicles with smaller, more fuel-efficient engines.
Honda has a factory just outside Guangzhou (Canton) that is assembling the FIT for the Chinese market (with some production being exported to Europe). Given the roominess of the FIT, small wonder why sales have been extremely strong already.
This may sound like a stupid question, but I'm going to ask it, anyway.
With the fuel tank of the Fit being under the front seats, and the fuel filler door being waaaaaaaay back on the driver's side rear quarter panel, how much additional gas is available, just by filling it to the filler door?
It's almost like having about a 1/2 gallon reserve tank, just by virtue of how far the two are apart. So... 11 gallon fuel tank x 45mpg = ~495mile range (plus about a 20 mile buffer). Over 500 miles on one tank? WOW!
Of course, we're talking running it until it's coughing on fumes, but still... Wow!
I happened to notice that hondapreview.com recently updated the information page on the Fit: "Expect a 1.5L engine producing around 110hp with a choice of either a 5spd manual or a "unique" 5spd automatic transmission."
The part about the 1,5L engine and the manual transmission makes sense, but I can't imagine what they are talking about with the automatic. Honda sells the Fit/Jazz in almost every country it sells cars in, and almost all of those have the automatic transmission as an option (or even standard). However, that automatic has always been either the CVT "MultiMatic" (ex. Fit 1,3 in Japan) or the CVT with 7 speed mode (ex. Fit 1,5 in Japan and Jazz 1,4 in Europe).
I simply cannot believe that the US would receive a regular 5 gear automatic transmission in the Fit.
While I don't look to hondapreview.com as the accurate source for future Honda models, I find this prediction of a 5 speed "regular" automatic to be odd.
I think given the fact they showed a US-market Honda Fit with the button shifters for the transmission on the steering wheel to a private convention of Honda dealers in September 2005, that tells me that they're leaning more and more to using the L15A VTEC engine with the CVT-7 automatic; this is the only automatic transmission that Honda has offered on the Fit, even on the new Mexican-market model that went on sale last month.
"Expect a 1.5L engine producing around 110hp with a choice of either a 5spd manual or a "unique" 5spd automatic transmission."
I, for one, will be disappointed and probably won't consider buying the Fit UNLESS they offer a small engine as an option...one that gets at least 40 city/50 highway gas mileage. I don't think a 110 hp engine can even come close to that.
Someone on another forum said that it appears Honda will use the L15A VTEC engine (109 bhp SAE 08/04 net) as one of the engine choices for the US market model.
I think Honda might also consider the L15A i-DSI engine (probably rated at 90 bhp SAE 08/04 net) if that engine can offer decent low-end torque and also meet ULEV Level-II emissions certification. The L15A i-DSI will likely sport about 3-5 mpg better fuel efficiency in both EPA City and Highway tests.
Alas, we can forget about the L13A i-DSI engine; the higher curb weight of the US-market Fit (due to more safety equipment installed and NHTSA-mandated 2.5 mph bumpers) will negate the fuel efficiency benefits of the L13A engine, mostly because drivers will have to rev the engine more to get decent performance, which negates the benefits of the i-DSI system.
the higher curb weight of the US-market Fit (due to more safety equipment installed and NHTSA-mandated 2.5 mph bumpers)
If we take a model like the Jazz 1,4i ES Sport which uses the 1339cc i-DSI L13A, we will see that it has almost everything (from a safety perspective) that the US will be getting...except for the expected side-curtain airbags. However, I can't imagine that Honda doesn't already sell the Fit/Jazz in higher traffic areas (Europe and Japan) with bumpers that wouldn't protect the car body in a 5 km/h collision. Do you seriously think the Japanese and European Fit/Jazz bumpers are inadequate for the US-market?
Regardless, even if new bumpers and side-curtain airbags would be added, does that really add THAT much weight to the Fit? The L13A produces 83HP@5700rpm and 88lb-ft@2800rpm of torque. Granted, 88lb-ft is not a whole lot, but it IS at 2800 rpm. Many people in the US believe that less than 100HP is insufficient, but in Europe the great majority of superminis/subcompacts have between 1300 and 1500 cc engines (with under 100HP). Also, people accelerate and drive just as fast in Europe as they do in the United States. I have seen L13A Jazzes throughout Europe taking off from stoplights, zipping around the cities, and shooting down the motorways at high speeds.
Do you seriously think the Japanese and European Fit/Jazz bumpers are inadequate for the US-market?
Take a look at these pictures:
US-market Fit taken at a private convention for Honda dealers in USA in September 2005:
European-market Honda Jazz (as the Fit is known there):
Note how much shorter the bumper on the European car is. Because the US-market car will sport longer bumpers front and rear and also sport side-curtain airbags, that could add as much as 50-80 pounds to the car, pretty significant given the low weight of the Fit to start with.
Here is another picture that shows a better view of the European Jazz bumper. The difference is about 1-2 inches from what I can see. http://www.honda.co.uk/newcars/images/gallery/800_10408_10729_05.jpg I actually did see that September 2005 picture when it first came out, and did not even think about it now. I didn't even notice the larger bumper!
The only reason that I doubted the weight gain was that my vehicle was once in a low-speed collision. I removed the entire front bumper to repaint it, and the entire bumper was not very heavy. I suppose the side-curtain airbags will add some weight though.
I agree with your comment about the US citizens and horsepower. There seems to be a physics illiteracy here. People always seem amazed when I say that my Ninja 500 has < 60 hp, yet it still runs high 12's in the quarter mile. Keep the weight low enough and 75 hp will seem like a rocket.
I have to wonder will Honda offer more than one engine on the US-market Fit. If they offer the L15A i-DSI in addition to the L15A VTEC we might just see the CVT-7 automatic on the cars with the i-DSI engine.
I honestly am having a hard time coming up with what to say. The blather here is astonsihing.
First off, 50 lbs is nothing. They could swap the wheels for alloys and easily deal with that. Secondly, the Japan made models for 2006 already *have* side airbags.
The fact is, if we're talking about 50 lbs or less, you make it sound as if the 1.3/1.4L smaller engine will suddenly die and blow up because of the extra weight. Um - maybe if it came from the factory loaded with sandbags in the rear...
We need the smaller engine as well. Also, fuel consumption problems by people racing the engine needlessly, well, that's their own fault. I can drop a GM vehicle into 3rd gear(lockout overdrive) and it runs very nicely. At 18mpg as a consequence of me driving that way.
85HP or so is plenty in a car the size and weight of a Mini. People assume that it will get blown over or something, almost with the same irrational activism that peolpe have of diesel engines here in the U.S.(despite 50% of European sales being deisels).
Don't worry - the tuners and sports-freaks will get their 1.5L with al the goodies. We just want the economy model that the *rest of the world* gets. That seems fair, given the cost of gas and the miles we drive(huge demand in simple language).
Secondly, the Japan made models for 2006 already *have* side airbags.
The models around the world have side airbags. We were referring to side-curtain airbags, which come down between the drivers head and the window from the ceiling. As far as I know, these weren't available anywhere on the Fit/Jazz.
irrational activism that peolpe have of diesel engines here in the U.S. Don't get me started on that one...
Yes, you're absolutely right. 50 lbs is nothing. It's like driving around with a child in the back seat. In other words...not a major hinderance on performance. However, the biggest point is PERFORMANCE. This is Honda's US market entry-level car now, not an S2000. People who opt for the L13A (should it hopefully become available in the US), are not looking for something to tune and show-off in. They are looking for a very well-built, quality Honda automobile that will deliver high efficiency, and look good in the process.
I went out and did a quick field test in my 1991 Toyota going up to 100km/h (62mph). At nearly full throttle (something I almost never do) I got about 13 seconds. Then for the stoplight on a large highway, I went with the flow of traffic. I reached 100km/h (62 mph) at 24 seconds, which is the traffic I usually deal with. The point is that 14 (or even 15) seconds for the Fit L13A is PERFECTLY FINE. Most people don't realize they usually never use the full potential of their engines anyway.
If it is true that they will replace the CVT-7 by a regular 5-spd auto, I might just cry. I really want a CVT, dammit.. It's already bad enough that Toyota didn't bring the CVT that is in the Vitz (Japanese Yaris) here, and now Honda. Why, oh, why?
I think this opens up a possibility that Honda will introduce a second drivetrain for the US/Canadian market Fit, namely a 1.5-liter engine derived from the 1.3-liter SOHC i-VTEC engine used on the 2006 Civic Hybrid sedan (minus the IMA hardware, of course!). This will be the engine that gets the CVT-7 automatic.
I'd probably pass too. My major attraction to the Fit was super-high mpg in a reasonably-priced car. I can get close to or better than 32/37 in cars that will likely cost less than the Fit. But there has not been an official announcement yet, so there is still hope.
I really don't see why they wouldn't bring the CVT over, though. I think it is available in the Mexican version (correct me if I'm wrong), and in the rest of the world.
CVT technology is often considered like on the the techs that will replace "regular" automatic transmissions, and it is smoother and more efficient (another interesting tech is clutchless electronically controlled "manual" transmissions...).
It'd be more trouble for them to take out the CVT than to just keep it in...
I really don't see why they wouldn't bring the CVT over, though. I think it is available in the Mexican version (correct me if I'm wrong), and in the rest of the world.
Yes, the CVT is available in the Mexican version. In fact, the CVT is the only automatic transmission available on the Fit/Jazz worldwide. The L12A i-DSI in Europe only has manual available The L13A i-DSI in Europe has both manual and CVT-7 The L13A i-DSI in Japan only has the regular CVT The L15A VTEC in Japan has both manual and CVT-7
What I am thinking is that maybe the L-series Honda engines were originally designed only for the CVT and CVT-7 automatic transmissions. Therefore putting a regular 5 gear automatic might be what is causing such poor fuel economy figures for the US market Fit. The 5 speed manual probably has fuel economy figures in the high 30s to mid 40s like the JDM 1,5i VTEC. I'll be getting the manual...
It'd be more trouble for them to take out the CVT than to just keep it in...
It's still an unknown just what Honda will offer in terms of drivetrain/transmission choice with the US/Canadian market Fit. I still DO hope they keep the CVT-7 automatic because practically everywhere else in the world the Fit/Jazz is only offered with this automatic. Maybe Honda will offer the CVT-7 as an optional transmission in addition to the five-speed automatic derived from the transmission used on the 2006 Civic? :confuse:
Sometimes I wonder where peolpe get their ideas from.
The sky isn't falling. Look at the Mexico model and the Japanese models. If anything, they will come over with a couple of cosmetic changes only. WYSIWYG, so the only question should be - CVT or 5 speed, 1.3 or 1.5L engine?
Now, if those EPA tests for the sport-tuned 1.5L engine(as opposed to being optimized for economy) only get 37-38 MPG highway, then Honda really is in dire need of the smaller engine. Of course, the engine could be taken back to frugal Japanese standards with two chip swaps I bet.(one for the CVT, one for the engine) I'd gladly loose 10-15% of my acceleration to get 5mpg more.
The critical thing is whether they will offer it like they do in Japan. Same car, only transmissions and engines being diferent. The "bigger engine on the loaded model" tactic will hurt sales, since under $15K cars are by definition bought by people trying to squeeze every penny.
~13K for a Fit, with the only change being 5-speed and the smaller engine... sign me up. That's market segment destroyer in the making. Hyundai, Daewoo(GM), and even Toyota can't compete if the frugal option is made available. I mean - buy an Aveo or a Accent... or a Fit with ABS and side airbags for $500 more. DUH.
And all of those happy Fit owners - probably are going to think favoribly in the future about Honda, same as we did in the 70's and 80's after owning the original Civics and Accords.
FWIW, the Accent has side bags/curtains and ABS standard for $13k or less also. That's why I wanted higher mpg on the Fit than 32/37--that's real close to what the Accent and Rio give. And I'll bet there will be rebates in store on the Koreans--but none on the Fit. But Honda has smart people, so I have hope there will be a high-mpg variant of the Fit for the U.S., like the Civic HF of yore.
Gosh, that's great mileage by anybody's book, and if they can deliver that for several thousand less than a Civic, you can buy a lot of gas with that. Plus maybe carry around IKEA stuff easier.
I just hope they can do a better job than Toyota did with the handling on the Echo/Scion xA. I owned both, and the Echo was a comfortable ride but VERY skittish in crosswinds, the xA handled terrific (even in crosswinds) but was so stiff it rattled my fillings.
Also, I hope they have better acceleration and freeway crusing. Both the Echo and xA were turtles, and had high rpm at 80mph (4,000 on the xA). The xA DID have excellent soundproofing, though.
The question of the day, for me, is whether the Fit will be a better option than an xA....it's going to have to have more than "magic seating." It's going to have to handle like the xA, ride like the Echo, have soundproofing like the xA, and be priced lower than both the xA and the Civic....
BTW, for the mileage fans out there, the Echo and xA I had gave me 32 mpg (auto) and 35 mpg (stick) on my freeway commute with no other driving (used a second car on weekends).
Backy, I know you and iluvmysephia are both ardant Hyundai and Kia fans -- and while I have doubted your enthusiasm in the past, I saw a 2006 Rio this weekend, and was simply amazed by the fit, finish, and choice of materials.
IMO 32/37 is pretty lame when you consider it's about the same combined mpg as the much larger, heavier, and more powerful Civic and Corolla, is matched by a couple of low-buck Korean cars, and is lower than what Nissan is claiming for the larger and more powerful Versa.
in the positive sense, yes, I had looked at these cars in their last generation and thought they were functional but nothing special. The 2006 Rio is quite nice though - much different impression in person than in pictures - the seat raised and lowered, and the bottom seat cushion angle is adjustable, the dash has a nice look and feel. Only the doors are a little spartan. Basically when my daughter turns 16 (in a few years) I'd have no problem buying one for her - it would all depend, at that point, on dealer network and pricing. Yes, Honda has some competition coming up.
Yes, 37 or 38 highway is terrible. It is only 10% better than an Accord or Camry, and they have much larger more powerful engines and are much heavier, and much roomier.
We have been waiting too long for this car for Honda to screw it up at the last minute. They have had a VERY popular car the last 3 years in Japan, Europe and Australia. They did this by building a reliable car that gets excellent mileage (42/49 1.3L) at an affordable price. Really all they had to do was to move the steering wheel to the right. NOTHING ELSE! Over the last 3 years that I have been on this board I have seen a lot of rumors come and go about the Fit. I sincerely hope that this 32/37mpg on non-CVT rumor is one that doesn’t pan out. This is a car that was meant for much more than mediocrity.
Oh wow you need to look further than the interior. The engines, the technology, the safety... The Fit is a solid car - very simmilar to a Mini Cooper in size, aerodynamics, and wieght(it's much heavier than the Echo was, which helps immensely on the road). From what I hear from my friends in the U.K., it's a fantastic car. Safe, stable, isn't a dog in terms of acceleration(though no racecar, either - lol), has tons of room for its size, and the engine is built like a Swiss watch.
The power to weight ratios, size, handling - it's almost sa if Honda made a Mini Cooper clone for $5K less. It's fine. What isn't, though, is the lack of the ultra-frugal 1.3L engine as an option. It's sorely needed to hurt the competition, even if it's mostly for marketing/available as an option and 80% of the sales are for the 1.5.
Me? I want the 1.3l. It's a fantastic car with good features and good mileage. What's not to like?
Comments
I agree that ESP is not necessarily important for a small car. I believe Honda is only offering this standard on the US-market SUVs and vans anyway.
I think it would be a good idea if the Fit had EBD (Electronic Brake Distribution) standard though.
Proper dash. Sorry, but I don't think the gauges belong in the center of the dash - call me odd...
I find it humorous in these times when many automakers are trying to minimize the need to take ones eyes off the road, some are moving the gauges to a completely unnatural position, like the center of the car. I suppose you could get used to it, but it would still be distracting having to move your eyes down and to the right just to see how fast you are going.
Another "Pro" I could list for the Fit is the movement of the fuel tank underneath the front seats. Not only does it allow for the room under the back seats, but it means that the driver seat will be up higher than normal, offering a better view of what's in front of the car. Couple this with the relatively tall height of the car, and this offers better visibility without sacrificing head room.
I think it would be good if Honda did not deviate from its current DX/LX/EX strategy on the Fit. What concerns me is the rumor that there will be a basic version and a sport version. If Honda puts electric windows/mirrors/locks, air conditioning, cruise control, and a CD player in the "basic" version, then fine, but I don't want to see a bare version, and then a fully loaded version. A middle of the road version is necessary for those who want some comfort and convenience, but don't need the sport trim and a spoiler.
I certainly won't buy the base model if I have to deal with manual windows, no A/C, a radio that's pathetic...(Describing the previous generation Civic DX, which nobody sane bought)
But please give us both engines and all the colors!
***EDIT**
http://www.honda.co.jp/Fit/
This pulls up new pages on the fit! Most of them are in at least 30-40% english, so there's a lot of information now available! Enjoy!
Notable things I see:
- sport mode in the 1.5L engine allows you to use paddle-shifters on the steering wheel!
- the front seats recline seamlessly with the rears, creating a super-large recliner/sleeping arrangement.
- picture of the side airbags(standard in Japan/USA for 2006)
- rear window wiper! Also, defroster, standard.
- locking gas cover(proper switch on the inside releases the door)
- what looks like a bluetooth "smartcard" as an option in addition to a key
- map lights(noteably missing on a Mini of all cars)
- loooking at the interior storage shots, I see a Hollywood/Los Angeles map in the side map pockets.
- rear storage areas that loook like they will fit a standard quart of oil.
- more tie-down points and bins than you can imagine.
- more movies of it driving around than you can imagine
- And... A really cute AD. Just change the announcer at the end and you've got your first U.S. AD(most likely) It's under "CM"
Actually, in Japan the Fit has seven variations, and each offers a varying level of equipment. The 1,3Y is the cheapest version, and is very bare. It doesn't even have wheel covers. Then there is the 1.3A, 1.3W, 1.3S, 1.5A, 1.5W, and finally the top of the line 1.5S which has everything. This thing about having several options for one model is the same in Europe as well.
However, I think your idea is great. Offer just two models. One with the fuel efficient 1,3 i-DSI and the "Sport" version with the 1,5 VTEC. Offer power windows, mirrors, locks, cruise control, decent sound system, cruise control, and air conditioning in both models. Also, put a 5 speed and a CVT-7 in both models. Then for the "Sport" version maybe put some sport trim, a sunroof, and standard foglamps.
That's the "R" in "ULTR" (Utility-Long-Tall-Refresh).
Don't plan on having that in the US though. Most models have that sort of thing in Japan, but they usually get rid of it when they export the models.
My Accord has the "Refresh" mode in Japan, but the seats don't go far enough forward in either the US or European models to let them go down all the way.
The Jazz in Europe, and the Fit in Mexico only have the "ULT". I think we can expect a similar arrangement to the Mexican Fit.
I expect the US/Canadian-market Fit to be that way, too. But the big selling point is the ability to fold up the rear seat bottoms to create an open cargo area in the center of the car, perfect for grocery shopping.
...and that is a very "tall" space indeed. According to Honda Japan's dimension figures, the distance between the floor and the ceiling on the Fit (1280mm / 50.4 in) is only 1 inch less than the former LaGreat (1st generation Odyssey), which had a space of 1305mm / 51.4 in.
I'm Excited about the Fit. Actually I'm buying a Brand New One here in Mexico. I will get it between today and tomorrow so hold on...
Check this out:
http://www.honda.com.mx/honda2006/index.html
Then go to Last Tab under The Fit Area that Is Called GALERIA then Click Videos and you're set on a Red One.
Comments Are welcomed......
Check out this funny little tidbit buried in the article
"Car sales have slowed, with those consumers who are buying more often choosing vehicles with smaller, more fuel-efficient engines.
The Chinese government is promoting the fuel-efficiency trend. When visiting a Honda plant in China in September, Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao sat in a Honda Fit, a small, relatively fuel-efficient model, partly as a symbolic gesture to encourage Chinese consumers to buy smaller cars. "
Honda also makes their CBR150R motorcycle. It's to the motorcycle world what the Fit is - small, efficient, and it has over 20HP as well as a top speed approaching what a Ninja 250 can do.
Even in China, they know the value that Honda represents in entry-level cars.
25 NX 450h+ / 24 Sienna Plat AWD / 23 Civic Type-R / 03 Montero Ltd
If you are referring to what raychuang00 said in post 810 about 2007, the discussion at that point was regarding whether the Fit would be sold as the current (first) or new (second) generation model. If Honda does indeed sell the 1st generation for a short time (starting in Spring 2006), we would only see the 2nd generation in the US in calendar year 2007. Which generation it will be is yet to be known.
They’re waiting to show it at some Auto Show perhaps Detroit.
Honda has a factory just outside Guangzhou (Canton) that is assembling the FIT for the Chinese market (with some production being exported to Europe). Given the roominess of the FIT, small wonder why sales have been extremely strong already.
With the fuel tank of the Fit being under the front seats, and the fuel filler door being waaaaaaaay back on the driver's side rear quarter panel, how much additional gas is available, just by filling it to the filler door?
It's almost like having about a 1/2 gallon reserve tank, just by virtue of how far the two are apart. So... 11 gallon fuel tank x 45mpg = ~495mile range (plus about a 20 mile buffer). Over 500 miles on one tank? WOW!
Of course, we're talking running it until it's coughing on fumes, but still... Wow!
"Expect a 1.5L engine producing around 110hp with a choice of either a 5spd manual or a "unique" 5spd automatic transmission."
The part about the 1,5L engine and the manual transmission makes sense, but I can't imagine what they are talking about with the automatic. Honda sells the Fit/Jazz in almost every country it sells cars in, and almost all of those have the automatic transmission as an option (or even standard). However, that automatic has always been either the CVT "MultiMatic" (ex. Fit 1,3 in Japan) or the CVT with 7 speed mode (ex. Fit 1,5 in Japan and Jazz 1,4 in Europe).
I simply cannot believe that the US would receive a regular 5 gear automatic transmission in the Fit.
While I don't look to hondapreview.com as the accurate source for future Honda models, I find this prediction of a 5 speed "regular" automatic to be odd.
I, for one, will be disappointed and probably won't consider buying the Fit UNLESS they offer a small engine as an option...one that gets at least 40 city/50 highway gas mileage. I don't think a 110 hp engine can even come close to that.
I think Honda might also consider the L15A i-DSI engine (probably rated at 90 bhp SAE 08/04 net) if that engine can offer decent low-end torque and also meet ULEV Level-II emissions certification. The L15A i-DSI will likely sport about 3-5 mpg better fuel efficiency in both EPA City and Highway tests.
Alas, we can forget about the L13A i-DSI engine; the higher curb weight of the US-market Fit (due to more safety equipment installed and NHTSA-mandated 2.5 mph bumpers) will negate the fuel efficiency benefits of the L13A engine, mostly because drivers will have to rev the engine more to get decent performance, which negates the benefits of the i-DSI system.
If we take a model like the Jazz 1,4i ES Sport which uses the 1339cc i-DSI L13A, we will see that it has almost everything (from a safety perspective) that the US will be getting...except for the expected side-curtain airbags.
However, I can't imagine that Honda doesn't already sell the Fit/Jazz in higher traffic areas (Europe and Japan) with bumpers that wouldn't protect the car body in a 5 km/h collision.
Do you seriously think the Japanese and European Fit/Jazz bumpers are inadequate for the US-market?
Regardless, even if new bumpers and side-curtain airbags would be added, does that really add THAT much weight to the Fit? The L13A produces 83HP@5700rpm and 88lb-ft@2800rpm of torque. Granted, 88lb-ft is not a whole lot, but it IS at 2800 rpm.
Many people in the US believe that less than 100HP is insufficient, but in Europe the great majority of superminis/subcompacts have between 1300 and 1500 cc engines (with under 100HP). Also, people accelerate and drive just as fast in Europe as they do in the United States. I have seen L13A Jazzes throughout Europe taking off from stoplights, zipping around the cities, and shooting down the motorways at high speeds.
Take a look at these pictures:
US-market Fit taken at a private convention for Honda dealers in USA in September 2005:
European-market Honda Jazz (as the Fit is known there):
Note how much shorter the bumper on the European car is. Because the US-market car will sport longer bumpers front and rear and also sport side-curtain airbags, that could add as much as 50-80 pounds to the car, pretty significant given the low weight of the Fit to start with.
Here is another picture that shows a better view of the European Jazz bumper. The difference is about 1-2 inches from what I can see.
http://www.honda.co.uk/newcars/images/gallery/800_10408_10729_05.jpg
I actually did see that September 2005 picture when it first came out, and did not even think about it now. I didn't even notice the larger bumper!
The only reason that I doubted the weight gain was that my vehicle was once in a low-speed collision. I removed the entire front bumper to repaint it, and the entire bumper was not very heavy. I suppose the side-curtain airbags will add some weight though.
I'll take it all with a grain of salt until I see the actual car (or at least offical Honda info)... :surprise:
First off, 50 lbs is nothing. They could swap the wheels for alloys and easily deal with that. Secondly, the Japan made models for 2006 already *have* side airbags.
The fact is, if we're talking about 50 lbs or less, you make it sound as if the 1.3/1.4L smaller engine will suddenly die and blow up because of the extra weight. Um - maybe if it came from the factory loaded with sandbags in the rear...
We need the smaller engine as well. Also, fuel consumption problems by people racing the engine needlessly, well, that's their own fault. I can drop a GM vehicle into 3rd gear(lockout overdrive) and it runs very nicely. At 18mpg as a consequence of me driving that way.
85HP or so is plenty in a car the size and weight of a Mini. People assume that it will get blown over or something, almost with the same irrational activism that peolpe have of diesel engines here in the U.S.(despite 50% of European sales being deisels).
Don't worry - the tuners and sports-freaks will get their 1.5L with al the goodies. We just want the economy model that the *rest of the world* gets. That seems fair, given the cost of gas and the miles we drive(huge demand in simple language).
On the other hand, if it's from a more difficult testing methodology, there might still be hope.
The models around the world have side airbags. We were referring to side-curtain airbags, which come down between the drivers head and the window from the ceiling. As far as I know, these weren't available anywhere on the Fit/Jazz.
irrational activism that peolpe have of diesel engines here in the U.S.
Don't get me started on that one...
Yes, you're absolutely right. 50 lbs is nothing. It's like driving around with a child in the back seat. In other words...not a major hinderance on performance. However, the biggest point is PERFORMANCE. This is Honda's US market entry-level car now, not an S2000. People who opt for the L13A (should it hopefully become available in the US), are not looking for something to tune and show-off in. They are looking for a very well-built, quality Honda automobile that will deliver high efficiency, and look good in the process.
I went out and did a quick field test in my 1991 Toyota going up to 100km/h (62mph).
At nearly full throttle (something I almost never do) I got about 13 seconds. Then for the stoplight on a large highway, I went with the flow of traffic. I reached 100km/h (62 mph) at 24 seconds, which is the traffic I usually deal with. The point is that 14 (or even 15) seconds for the Fit L13A is PERFECTLY FINE. Most people don't realize they usually never use the full potential of their engines anyway.
CVT technology is often considered like on the the techs that will replace "regular" automatic transmissions, and it is smoother and more efficient (another interesting tech is clutchless electronically controlled "manual" transmissions...).
It'd be more trouble for them to take out the CVT than to just keep it in...
I sure hope they'll keep it.
Yes, the CVT is available in the Mexican version. In fact, the CVT is the only automatic transmission available on the Fit/Jazz worldwide.
The L12A i-DSI in Europe only has manual available
The L13A i-DSI in Europe has both manual and CVT-7
The L13A i-DSI in Japan only has the regular CVT
The L15A VTEC in Japan has both manual and CVT-7
What I am thinking is that maybe the L-series Honda engines were originally designed only for the CVT and CVT-7 automatic transmissions. Therefore putting a regular 5 gear automatic might be what is causing such poor fuel economy figures for the US market Fit. The 5 speed manual probably has fuel economy figures in the high 30s to mid 40s like the JDM 1,5i VTEC. I'll be getting the manual...
It's still an unknown just what Honda will offer in terms of drivetrain/transmission choice with the US/Canadian market Fit. I still DO hope they keep the CVT-7 automatic because practically everywhere else in the world the Fit/Jazz is only offered with this automatic. Maybe Honda will offer the CVT-7 as an optional transmission in addition to the five-speed automatic derived from the transmission used on the 2006 Civic? :confuse:
The sky isn't falling. Look at the Mexico model and the Japanese models. If anything, they will come over with a couple of cosmetic changes only. WYSIWYG, so the only question should be - CVT or 5 speed, 1.3 or 1.5L engine?
Now, if those EPA tests for the sport-tuned 1.5L engine(as opposed to being optimized for economy) only get 37-38 MPG highway, then Honda really is in dire need of the smaller engine. Of course, the engine could be taken back to frugal Japanese standards with two chip swaps I bet.(one for the CVT, one for the engine) I'd gladly loose 10-15% of my acceleration to get 5mpg more.
The critical thing is whether they will offer it like they do in Japan. Same car, only transmissions and engines being diferent. The "bigger engine on the loaded model" tactic will hurt sales, since under $15K cars are by definition bought by people trying to squeeze every penny.
~13K for a Fit, with the only change being 5-speed and the smaller engine... sign me up. That's market segment destroyer in the making. Hyundai, Daewoo(GM), and even Toyota can't compete if the frugal option is made available. I mean - buy an Aveo or a Accent... or a Fit with ABS and side airbags for $500 more. DUH.
And all of those happy Fit owners - probably are going to think favoribly in the future about Honda, same as we did in the 70's and 80's after owning the original Civics and Accords.
I just hope they can do a better job than Toyota did with the handling on the Echo/Scion xA. I owned both, and the Echo was a comfortable ride but VERY skittish in crosswinds, the xA handled terrific (even in crosswinds) but was so stiff it rattled my fillings.
Also, I hope they have better acceleration and freeway crusing. Both the Echo and xA were turtles, and had high rpm at 80mph (4,000 on the xA). The xA DID have excellent soundproofing, though.
The question of the day, for me, is whether the Fit will be a better option than an xA....it's going to have to have more than "magic seating." It's going to have to handle like the xA, ride like the Echo, have soundproofing like the xA, and be priced lower than both the xA and the Civic....
BTW, for the mileage fans out there, the Echo and xA I had gave me 32 mpg (auto) and 35 mpg (stick) on my freeway commute with no other driving (used a second car on weekends).
-Dudley
Over the last 3 years that I have been on this board I have seen a lot of rumors come and go about the Fit. I sincerely hope that this 32/37mpg on non-CVT rumor is one that doesn’t pan out. This is a car that was meant for much more than mediocrity.
...I'm just curious, but is there anyone who actually is hoping (besides me
The power to weight ratios, size, handling - it's almost sa if Honda made a Mini Cooper clone for $5K less. It's fine. What isn't, though, is the lack of the ultra-frugal 1.3L engine as an option. It's sorely needed to hurt the competition, even if it's mostly for marketing/available as an option and 80% of the sales are for the 1.5.
Me? I want the 1.3l. It's a fantastic car with good features and good mileage. What's not to like?