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Comments
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Mini(from their site)
Base model:
115HP@6000/110 Torque@4500 2524 Lbs.
1HP/21.9 Lbs
1Ft-Lb/22.9 Lbs
Fit(1.5L engine):
109HP@5800/106 Torque@ 4800rpm ~2300 lbs.
1HP/21.1 Lbs
1Ft-Lb/21.7 Lbs
They should be nearly identical in speed.
With regard to the ride, even with regular tires, the ride is still harsh. The runflats definitely contribute, but they're only part of the reason. There's no way to get around it. Switching to nonrunflats improves the ride as the runflats are stiff walled, but it doesn't negate the relatively stiff supension of the mini. A mini with regular tires will ride better than one with runflats, but it's still going to ride fairly harsh compared to a Fit or Civic. I'd still strongly recommend the nonrunflats (provided you can handle a flat), as handling is improved, ride is slightly improved, they're cheaper, grip better, and lighter.
Mini softened the suspension in 2004 because of the relatively harsh ride in the MCS, but it came at the expense of (you guessed it) a corresponding drop off in handling.
Actually, it will.
http://asia.vtec.net/Reviews/JazzVtec/
Go there and scroll down until you get to the "0-60mph Acceleration Run" header.
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Mini(from their site)
Base model:
115HP6000/110 Torque4500 2524 Lbs.
1HP/21.9 Lbs
1Ft-Lb/22.9 Lbs
Fit(1.5L engine):
109HP5800/106 Torque 4800rpm ~2300 lbs.
1HP/21.1 Lbs
1Ft-Lb/21.7 Lbs
They should be nearly identical in speed.
We actually formulated it the same way except that I chose to compare it with below...
Kia Rio(1.6L engine):
110HP6000/107 Torque 4500rpm 2365 lbs.
1HP/21.5 Lbs
1Ft-Lb/22.1 Lbs
"Zero to 60 mph: 9.0-9.5 sec"
As a prospective Honda Fit buyer, hopefully, its leaning towards your spectrum.
Correction, the fastest Honda Civic SI was the 1999 generation. 0-60mph in 7.2sec as per Edmunds. I miss this model although it was a gas guzzler.
I also converted the 1080 kg curb weight and it is equivalent to 2381 lbs.
Base model:
115HP6000/110 Torque4500 2524 Lbs.
1HP/21.9 Lbs
1Ft-Lb/22.9 Lbs
Fit(1.5L engine):
109HP5800/106 Torque 4800rpm 2381 lbs(thanks for the info).
1HP/21.8 Lbs
1Ft-Lb/22.5 Lbs
Really REALLY close, with a smidge more torque as expected due to the .1L displacement advantage on the Fit(lol)
The newer base model Minis - yeah - the suspension is softer and it handles well, very small car-ish instead of "Cooper", since the run-flats aren't standard on the Base model. (this is a good thing, actually, for normal driving)
That said, my main point wasn't to bash on the Mini so much as to put to rest the idea that the Fit is a slug. It's very light and will do virtually the same as what a base Mini does in terms of handling and driveability. It should be fine for freeways, city traffic, and so on.
I do hope they offer both engines, though. The 1.5L Fit is going to be quite nice to drive, so a more frugal model certainly has its place, especially if the 1.5L is the sport version sold in Japan(or the equivalent). The 1.3L would then be the basic model with higher MPG and a more Aveo/Scion type performance curve.
What are the fuel consumption ratings on the L15A i-DSI?
I think the key to the success of the i-DSI in the US market (if it ever actually showed up) would be some proper marketing. People need to know that unlike many Honda engines, which have a maximum power “peak” at high rpm, the i-DSI has more of a maximum power “plateau” at mid-range rpm, which essentially makes the power more “accessible” to the average driver.
As long as the 5-speed manual is standard (or at least available!!!!!) on each US-market Fit trim line.
I normally wouldn't be concerned about this, but more and more US-market cars are available with only automatic transmissions. With Honda alone, there is the Ridgeline, Odyssey, Pilot, Accord Hybrid, Civic Hybrid, etc. Even the US CR-V has only one trim line with a manual!
Ive been searching for days allover thenet japan, canada,europe, aust. etc.. nothing new
We have not seen any spy shots and this make me, believe a 2007 will not be introduced in 3/2006.
Question does the jazz/fit have a full or donut spair???
I agree, very much craving information because I'm making purchase decisions now. I still expect it will be Q1/March since Honda has stated this to investors and needs to compete with the new subcompacts and the existing stated competition (the XA, Hyundai, etc). What I wonder about - as almost ALL the discussion here has centered on - are the specs. A few unexpected shifts one way or the other (smaller engine, larger engine, higher price, fewer safety features) could dramatically decrease my interest in the Fit.
For me, and I suspect many of us who would agree with my last sentence, it's about efficiency and economy. A reasonably low (loss-leading for Honda) price that competes with the Koreans and provides great value, and a fuel efficient vehicle. If the Fit comes in <38 MPG EPA, I'm not interested (this prospect caused a debate a few weeks back). If it comes in over $14,000 or $15,000 base, I'm not interested and would look at competitors at that price point. Of course, based on all we'd know, I'd say those things are *unlikely* - but still possible until we have more information.
Last weekend I visited the Toyota/Scion dealer. I expected to be very excited by the xA but was very unimpressed. I figured that's the car we'd buy if our car dies this winter before the Fit arrives. Sitting in the xA, it just didn't feel right (mainly center dash, trunk space), as much of a value as it is. While it's more expensive, if I'm going to pay upwards of $15k for a vehicle, I'm very intrigued by the Matrix - Toyota quality, lots more space, power, even AWD in the upper models.
So, my contention is that it's all about positioning. This is a market and a business after all. Let's see what that position is. As I recall (I joined this discussion in August upon the "official" announcement of the US Fit), many of us, as hungry for information as we were then, expected it might be December before we knew more, with the auto shows coming up. Well, as of yesterday, it's December
The reason for the lack of spy shots is that the second generation Fit won't be introduced for a while still.
The car Honda will be introducing to the US in a few months will be the current generation Fit/Jazz. The car will have some minor modifications that will help it comply with government regulations. You can also expect some "US-market related" changes.
...and Honda's website said that "there will be a few surprises for those expecting the steering wheel to simply move to the left". Of course, this could just be marketing talk for a new bumper and strip of metallic trim above the grille, but we will just have to wait until January to see what the US Fit will really look like.
You can pretty much count on Spring 2006 for the introduction. Honda stated this in their July 2005 Business Brief, which probably has some of the most solid future product information you can find.
The Fit/Jazz has a "space-saver" (donut) spare tire. If they went to all that work to move the fuel tank, I don't think they would use up space to put a full-size spare in.
But, if anyone from Honda is reading this - we need economical as well - PLEASE give us the 1.2/1.3 engine and a normal lower cost suspension(same model sold in Japan that gets 45+mpg) as an option. $15K for a Honda Fit when a Corolla/Matrix/Sentra/etc is only a tiny bit more - it'd just not sell well and hit the first-time buyer's eye. We badly need the base model as well.
The front bumper is different. It looks sportier, and curves upward a bit, and the front grille has that metal thing on top, similar to the new Civic. However, if you take a look at the headlights, hood, general body shape, etc, you can tell it's actually the current car.
Since the drawing is an artist's rendition, it will have exaggerated features...like those huge wheels.
Take a look at some of the other drawings that Honda has issued before a model came out. Both the Pilot and current generation RL looked very different from the drawings that preceded the release of the model.
Regarding the engine/suspension choices, I think Honda will kind of mix things up for the US Fit. I have a feeling that if the US gets only the 1,5L engine, the base will have the normal suspension found on the L13A models in Japan, while the sport model will have the L15A suspension.
While the L12A 1246cc engine sold in Europe with 78 HP will never make it to the US, I still think the L13A 1339cc (1,3L in Japan and 1,4L in Europe) would be a good candidate for those wanting an "HF" version. Another possibility could be the L15A i-DSI as mentioned earlier in this forum. However, my opinion is that Honda is going to keep it simple in the beginning with only one engine choice.
I like the idea of the 1.5 engine. We need alittle pop with all of these morons driving in the NY Metro area with their huge trucks and suv's
On the other hand, this model will be 5 yrs old and I believe they would sell it for 2 yrs in the US. Then bring in a new model. They wouldn't sell the same car for 8-9 yrs.
I don't recall which model it was for (possibly the Ody), but Consumer Reports showed the incidence of repair chart over time (one to four years) for a particular model made in its first year, second, and third. The first year was more problematic all the way through. The second and third were much better.
Thanks
X
Good job Honda. I believe the Fit will do well when it is tested.
linky
Acura in 1986 is the only situation that comes to mind as a real example regarding car models of taking the first step. However, with everything else they take the cautious path. The first real SUV came in 1997, the first mid-size SUV in 2003, and the first pickup (or semi-pickup) in 2005. These are all about 5 years after they should have been done, but apart from the Ridgeline, most of Honda's models in the US has met or exceeded sales goals.
"stick us with a 4-5 year old model"
This is actually a good thing.
Honda will be selling a model that is 4-5 years old, and will therefore have most, if not all of the problems worked out. Secondly, the model is still a great car. In Europe, where superminis/subcompacts reign supreme (and subsequently a very competitive category), the Jazz (introduced in January 2002) is still considered very competitive. It shows, as sales of the Jazz in Europe are up 24,5% compared to the same period last year.
And finally, most Americans will not know that it's an old design. For all they know, it could be a new model. After all, with just a few more cosmetic changes it could look like one.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
...also with the Civic moving upmarket, Toyota introducing the Yaris, and Nissan with the Versa, Honda could not afford to be left without a proper entry-level vehicle.
I am hoping that something similar will be the case for the Fit, right off the bat. IOW, that there will be some nicely equipped Fits available with things like cruise and moonroof. And maybe a handling package, or is that too much to ask? :-)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
That's why I think we will see the Scion xA replaced very soon--probably by a model based on the Toyota Ractis tall wagon that just came out in Japan recently.
I doubt Mercedes-Benz will offer the A-Class here, mostly because M-B will charge nearly US$22,000 for one if sold here. After all, they shelved plans to sell the B200 Turbo hatchback here....
This makes me so mad that Japan and Europe consistently get all of the newest, coolest, most innovative cars, while we in the US wait endlessly for something that the rest of the world has had for 4 years now!
I went to the site for the Ractis. www.ractis.com Wow! What a great car!
This just underscores why all of the US car makers are losing their shirts right now. They just keep on selling the same old crappy SUV’s and blaming their losses on high labor costs! I really believe that there is a mindset amongst all of the US and most of the Japanese carmakers that the US market wants bland and boring, and cares nothing for innovative and efficient.
Maybe we are in the minority but if you look at boards like this you can see that the US market really is crying out for something new. I for one would like to have the same cutting edge choices that the Japanese car market offers.
I think that the people on these boards are a minority. While many Americans will look at the Fit, Yaris, Versa, etc. and say, "Oh, that's cool", most of them don't care enough to discuss this, let alone buy one. It is the people on certain boards who are crying out for cars like this.
Most Americans I have spoken to are seriously afraid of small cars...they list several common reasons.
While IMO, they are wrong, it is still what they think, and what they think will be a huge factor in choosing their next car.
"I for one would like to have the same cutting edge choices that the Japanese car market offers."
...or what the European market offers. There is far more choice in the European and Japanese markets...with the exception of mid-large sized SUVs, but from what I hear, most people on this forum aren't interested in them anyway. :P
Although I've said this many times before, I think that the Fit could help change people's opinions about small cars in the US. If you look at the current selection of small cars in the US, for the average consumer they are either too wild (Scion), too sporty/expensive (Mini), or just too boring and "rental car"-ish (Aveo). The Fit will fit into the mainstream market better...and with an interior that is still considered best in class.
lots of tune-out Fit/Jazz
They just gave the JDM Fit another MMC (minor model change).
http://www.honda.co.jp/auto-lineup/fit/photo-lib/index.html
http://asia.vtec.net/news/JDMFitMMC/index.html
Iam so fire up about this vehicle.
They should change the rim or have another option. It looks outdated.
The switch to LEDs for the tailights and read disc brakes... nice. Also, with the new emissions, it JUST MIGHT be able to get PZEV compliance and be elegible for HOV useage and so on, like CNG vehicles are(plus other goodies like some cities offer, like free parking at meters)
If Honda could manage to get it to pollute that low, it would easily double sales in urban areas. The first gasoline powered non-hybrid that pollutes as little as CNG or hybrids? Sign me up.
I just wish they would offer the rims currently available on the upper level European Jazz at least as an accessory on the US Fit.
http://www.honda.de/images/car/large/car_jazz_027_2005_g.jpg
I still hope that the automatic for the US-market car is at least the regular CVT (Honda might drop the CVT-7 as a cost-saving measure).
http://asia.vtec.net/news/JDMFitMMC/index.html
The dashboard pictures aren't up to date on those websites. The Jazz's dashboard was upgraded in 2003, the 3 air control big buttons under the radio don't exist anymore. Air conditionning is fully automatic now on the top level Jazz.
I have my Honda Jazz for 2 months now and I'm delighted, I even don't find it that bumpy anymore, the drive is so smooth and pleasant. The Jazz is not an econobox and I just feel like in an upper range model classy car when driving it.
I wouldn't want the regular CVT as the 7 speed CVT is just so great smooth and efficient.
The "A" trim line in Japan still (even for the 2006 model year!) gets the cheaper dashboard setup with 3 large buttons, while the more expensive "W" and "S" trim lines get the nice one with automatic air conditioning.
I'm not sure how Honda equips the interior of the Jazz in France, but in Hungary the 1,2i still gets the 3 large knobs under the radio, while the 1,4i gets the nicer looking setup. Ever since 2003 as you mentioned, the 1,4i has the automatic air conditioning standard. However, the 1,2i still retains manual air conditioning, and therefore has the 3 large knobs.
Here is a picture of a brand new 2005 Jazz 1,2i S Cool taken in the summer of this year. Notice it has the manual A/C.
http://index.hu/cikkepek/totalcar/tesztek/otkicsi//.gdata/gp_jazz_011.jpg
...and here is one more picture. Although we all know about the spaciousness of the Jazz, this gives a nice visual. Note the office chair behind the huge beach ball.
http://index.hu/cikkepek/totalcar/tesztek/otkicsi//.gdata/gp_jazz_002.jpg
http://www.honda.de/images/car/large/car_jazz_027_2005_g.jpg
I agree. The rims from this link looks like my previous TSX's. It gives the Fit a more luxurious look.
The previous rim is just too ho hum CRVish for me.
Bonjour Hungarian83,
Have a look at this website:
http://www.honda.co.jp/auto-lineup/fit/photo-lib/index.html
...there are 2 dashboards pictures, the one with the girl is apparently the top level model as it get the more expensive radioCD but oddly it has the 3 large knobs instead of the automatic air conditioning standard, the second picture seems to have a GPS type of screen instead of the radio...
From your saying it looks like the Jazz in Hungary and in France are the same and come with the same dashboards. The picture you are showing me shows the entry level 1.2 dashboard with the 3 large knobs just like in France but in this case the radio is quite cheaper and look totally different.
I suppose that in Hungary like in France the expensive radio comes with the automatic air conditioning.