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Comments
Every dealer I have spoken to regarding anything not on their lots gives me a "deer in headlights" look. What makes this dealer so special that they receive all of the news. The "Preview" section seems like nothing more than a marketing tool. Isn't it convenient that you can already shop for Fit accessories, when Honda probably hasn't even picked them out yet.
They also seem to know an awful lot about the new CRX, which Honda has not said a single word about and the comment about the Full-size pickup isn't even worth generating a rumor about.
Fit intro in June? I don't think so.
It is true that Honda brings vehicles to market slower than a Trabant accelerates (0-60: 45sec), but June is one date I refuse to believe. I really doubt Honda is going to put up the "Fit 5-door" on the main page under the models section 6 1/2 months ahead of schedule. Also, there is an image in the bottom-left corner of the automobiles.honda.com site that changes everytime you refresh the page. Refresh it enough, and there is one that says "Fit Coming Soon!"
June 2006 is not soon...even for Honda.
This frickin' rumor mill is so ANTI - pro spin for the Fit. Honda is either a mastermind when it comes to creating suspense OR they're still stuck firmly in some sort of tight-lipped eastern philosophy. :confuse:
I have to disagree on that. The 50 mpg figure is based on the British imperial gallon, which is about 20% larger than the US gallon. Convert that 50 mpg figure into mpg based on the US gallon and my guess of 36 mpg city, 41 mpg highway with the newly-improved L15A VTEC engine is probably pretty close to the truth.
By the way, there's also a factor people forget: in most of Europe and Japan, gasoline is rated at 91 and 98 pump octane; this usually allows the engine manufacturers to tune their engines to take advantage of these fuels, which usually means slightly better fuel mileage. Because most gasoline sold in the USA is rated at 87 pump octane, that means engine manufacturers will have to change the valve and spark timing so pre-detonation (engine knocking) doesn't become an issue; alas, that cuts fuel efficiency slightly. Is it small wonder why most higher-end cars sold in the USA suggest or require 91 pump octane gasoline?
Regarding gas mileage, the only Fit or Jazz that breaks 50 mpg (using US gallons) is the 1,2i Jazz sold in Europe. When converted, it is exactly 50 mpg in extra urban (highway). The 1,2i is only available with a 5 speed manual. Of course, European testing methods are different than the US, and the fuel octanes are different, so comparision with the EPA ratings is somewhat difficult.
http://www.honda.com.au/jazz/gli/=environment/fuel-efficient+lev+engine.htm
And the 1.5cvt sport.
http://www.honda.com.au/jazz/vti-s/=environment/fuel-efficient+lev+engine.htm
The conversion is l/100km to US gallons and is easily done here:
http://www.sciencemadesimple.net/fuel_economy.php
It works out to be:
1.5l sport - 6.0 litres per 100km city, and 5.2 litres per 100km highway = 39.2/45.23 mpg
1.3l – 5.6 litres per 100km city, and 4.8 litres per 100km highway = 42.0/49.0 mpg
That’s a little closer to what we’ve all been hoping for, and the Australian Jazz are made in Japan just as American Honda president Takeo Fukui said ours would be. It seems to me that considering Australia’s roads and cars are similar to our own, and given that the least expensive thing for Honda to do would be to make more of what they have been making, that the Aussie Jazz is probably going to be very much like what we will get here. Just a theory, but I for one would be quite happy with the fit/jazz that Japan makes for the Aussie market.
The small engine is going to be a wonderful gas-mizer in actual use. The 1.5? Yeah - it'll be tuned for sportiness. OTOH, the Cooper gets dreadful mileage, so it's still a win-win situation for Honda.
I'm not sure about that--I believe that the Honda Jazz with the 1.2-liter i-DSI engine is available with the "conventional" CVT automatic in the UK.
However, I've heard that Honda plans to offer the L15A VTEC engine on Fit/Jazz models worldwide starting in 2006, probably using the upgraded engine that arrived with the new mid-model change just over a week ago in Japan.
Manual:
1.2 S
1.4i SE
1.4i Sport
Automatic (CVT-7):
1.4i SE
1.4i Sport
I got this from the "Build your Jazz" section of their website. There is no L12A in Europe with an automatic (CVT or CVT-7).
Although somewhat unrelated, I continued to browse the UK site and found that none of the three engine choices (two petrol and one diesel) in the FR-V offers automatic either. In fact the FR-V is sold only with a manual in Europe. This wouldn't surprise me in certain countries, but I thought that automatics were more popular in the UK.
As far as I know the L12A in the Jazz was designed specifically for Europe and base models in Europe quite often only have manual transmissions available.
The popularity of the automatic transmission in Europe varies between countries, but it usually ranges from not very popular to practically nonexistant.
"However, I've heard that Honda plans to offer the L15A VTEC engine on Fit/Jazz models worldwide starting in 2006"
This sounds very possible, and it would coincide perfectly with the US Fit intro. The Jazz could use the L15A in Europe. While I believe most sales will remain with the i-DSI, the L15A VTEC will be a big hit with the people looking for the power boost.
"We’ll have to wait to see how Accent stacks up contentwise against the coming Toyota Yaris, Honda Fit and Nissan Versa, which will hit the Hyundai head-on in the marketplace. No doubt these competitors have scoped out the newly equipped Accent and tweaked their standard features list a bit.
Competition is good for everyone."
http://www.autoweek.com/article.cms?articleId=103729
The Hyundai, actually is a nice car, but it had one critical flaw. The engine. If you compare power and fuel consumption for the Hyundais versus Toyota and Honda, it's clear which has a better engine. And that's not even comparing it to GM - their large land-boats get almost 30mpg highway. Oh - that and their warranty is cut in half if it's the second owner. Who wants to buy a used Hyundai or Kia with a year left on the warranty?(almost the worst resale value as well)
As for the Accent's warranty getting "cut in half", yes, the powertrain warranty above 5 years/60k is dropped. But is that really a point vs. the Fit, since Honda has a 3 year/36k bumper-to-bumper warranty (vs. 5/60k for the Accent that includes roadside assistance) and 5/60k for powertrain? You must really hate Hyundai and Kia to continually bring up this kind of stuff on the Fit discussion.
That argument isn't very convincing considering that the Yaris is sold in TONs of countries where the Scion models are not available.
The only things that they've changed on the Yaris in the US because of the Scion line is that they won't offer the 5-door model. The rest is pure Yaris, and it is a best-seller in Canada, Europe and Asia AFAIK.
While 3-door hatchbacks are usually considered to be more sporty than 5-doors, the Yaris doesn't really have a sporty exterior, and its versatility is hampered by the fact that it only has 3 doors.
The sedan looks like a mini-Corolla.
I don't want to criticize Toyota, but I think they kind of missed the point.
There are people who want the versatility of a 5-door, but are turned off by the styling and image of a Scion.
Well, the Fit will be waiting for them
I think there's another possibility why Toyota is not selling the five-door Yaris hatchback in the USA: the upcoming replacement for the Scion xA. If you look at the Toyota Ractis tall wagon that started selling in Japan last fall, the vehicle is almost a natural to replace the current Scion xA model. Given that the Ractis uses a back seat that has almost the same foldable functionality of the Fit's back seat, I wouldn't be surprised that Toyota brings the Ractis over to the USA as the second-generation Scion xA within the next 18 months.
As for the Accent's warranty getting "cut in half", yes, the powertrain warranty above 5 years/60k is dropped. But is that really a point vs. the Fit, since Honda has a 3 year/36k bumper-to-bumper warranty (vs. 5/60k for the Accent that includes roadside assistance) and 5/60k for powertrain?
**
Check out Honda's certified program - one of the best in the business. Hyundai is cut in half from the day it was SOLD, plus if it was ever owned by a dealer/anyone else, even if it was sold to you with 200 miles on it, you start out with half the warranty. It smacks me right in the face of being mizers and sticking it to you - and leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
VW? 10/100K warranty as well. Fully transferrable. Not even many dealers know about it, becasue they don't pimp it all over their ads. Yet it's there. No brainer which is better used. Buy a 4 year old ex-lease Passat and you have 6 years left on the warranty. The Hyundai? One year and poof. None if you are the third owner. VW? You could be the fifth owner for all they care.
Honda - well, I can guarantee which needs warranty repairs more often. I almost broke a switch and a vent on a test-drive in a Kia, plus the transmission was god-awful compared to even my old Volvo 240(and the old Borg-Warner gearboxes weren't the best to be sure).
Go test-drive a Civic 5-speed. Then A Hyundai. Then wonder why peolpe don't pay the extra couple of thousand for nearly twice the car.
Summary of 2005 Year End CEO Speech
TOKYO, Japan, December 20, 2005 (they are a day ahead)- Review of the year 2005,
Honda said of the North American Market:
“Introducing Fit in the entry level category in spring 2006. Strengthen lineup with excellent fuel economy and environmental performance, while cultivating new customer segments” So...looks like Honda is still on the way to bring us our Fit!!! With the Yaris coming in April, Betcha Honda won't lag and will in fact arrive as promised in March, 06. I'm looking to buy their 'top of the line',stick shift, most loaded/tuned from the factory model...and if you're listening Honda... give me a sunroof!!!! I want it ALL! I'll buy the 1st one in the USA!!
...but if Toyota can sell the Ist and the Ractis (both under the Toyota brand) in Japan without any problems, why couldn't they sell the Yaris 5 and the xA under two different brands in the US? The Yaris 5 has more of a "cute" look to it, while both the xA/Ist and Ractis have sharper lines and more aggressive styling.
"Introducing Fit in the entry level category in spring 2006. Strengthen lineup with excellent fuel economy and environmental performance, while cultivating new customer segments."
Practically six months since the last time they said this. New wording, same BS.
Oh Honda, hurry up.
The Hyundai b-to-b warranty is 5 years, 60k miles regardless of how many owners the car has. How long is Honda's b-to-b warranty? It is 3 years, 36k miles, is it not? I really don't understand why you continue to bring up these points that show Honda in a poor light compared to its competition.
BTW, I did test-drive a Civic 5-speed before buying my '01 Elantra. There was no comparison--the Elantra was a much smoother and more comfortable car, and cost $6000+ less than the Civic. Unfortunately, Honda doesn't offer a 5-door Civic so I couldn't consider it when I bought my Elantra 5-door in '04. But I am glad to see that Honda will offer a 5-door with the Fit, and it should be at a very competitive price vs. Hyundai.
I will not buy a fit with a sunroof - period. I hope it is a stand alone option and not bundled with other usefull items. Never could consider a Civic (until now) because the only way to get ABS was to get a sunroof.
Things like long warranties and large rebates are usually used to sell cars when the cars aren't capable of selling themselves. Why did Hyundai used to have a 10 year warranty standard? Because they had a bad reputation and they needed to sell cars. Now, in the past few years it looks like their sales are starting to pick up. People are starting to realize that the cars are no longer the tin cans they used to be, and Hyundai no longer needs to offer the long warranty to sell the cars.
Look at GM and Ford and why they need to offer huge rebates (and still have falling sales). They don't have cars that sell themselves.
Honda however has one of the lowest warranties in the US market (3yr/36,000) and offers the least rebates of all the major car companies, AND will have the 12th straight year of record sales this year. That sure says something about the cars they produce.
Back to the Fit, I'm hoping that Takeo Fukui's comment about fuel efficiency really does indicate 40+ mpg. I don't think Honda out of all companies, would say something like "excellent fuel economy and environmental performance" and then show up with a car delivering 32/37.
It is almost inconceivable to me that a car like the Fit would deliver only 32/37 mpg.
It's very close to the same difference that the Accord has compared to the Civic, so based upon those figures:
Accord: 26/34 3200 lbs
Civic: 30/38 2600 lbs
Fit: 34/42(minimum - highway is likely 45+, due to less mass to keep at speed) I'm expecting 35/45 for the 1.5 and 40/50 for the 1.3L.(manual transmission, of course)
http://automobiles.honda.com/
Along with more emphasis from the CEO in the recent comments, seems we're definitely building toward more information soon (though incidentally right in line with the latest possible [january] expected date)!
The pictures in that section of the page rotate, so you might have to refresh a couple of times before you see it. Needless to say, it's great news...especially the "Coming Soon" part. That little phrase alone makes me think that we can expect an early to mid-Spring introduction, rather than June.
I personally think there will be a huge rush of information on January 8th. That is when the media will first get access to the NAIAS. At that point, pictures will be out, so there is no need for Honda to keep quiet either. I will be really interested to see the extent of the modifications. I hope and pray they didn't americanize it too much apart from the required safety/emissions requirements.
You shouldn't have to keep refreshing if you copy and paste this link into your browser address bar.
The special Fit page has been around for at least a few months already. This new advertisement, along with the "Fit 5-door" menu item are brand new and have only been put up in the last few days.
This image:
Hold it right there! If you've read this web page:
http://asia.vtec.net/news/JDMFitMMC/index.html
Note that Honda has gotten their Fit engines to almost meet the Japanese 2010 emissions standard, which is probably equivalent to California Air Resources Board ULEV Level-2 certification. This means the L15A VTEC engine on the US-market Fit will likely get at least ULEV Leve1-1 certification, already very low to start with.
So they have to de-tune the compression over here and tweak with the computers to get simmilar results and pass NoX levels for CA emissions. Americans also drive much faster(shift points changed) most of the time, since we have wide open highways while Japan is mostly semi-rural or city, with few superhighways that aren't packed with people.
But it'll come - and get really high mileage I bet.
Just thinking out loud.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
The reason is simple: for a while Honda sold scooters in North America with the Jazz name. As such, they want to avoid that confusion.
The Jazz name is used in Asia (outside Japan and China), the Middle East, and Europe.
It makes sense from Honda's regional perspective that they would call the car the Fit in both US and Canada.
I personally think Jazz would have worked fine. From a Europeans point of view it does sound kind of upbeat and fun, but Americans might look at it as kind of an odd name.
However, it goes both ways. Americans probably don't want to buy a car called the Toyota Picnic (Sienna in US) just like Europeans don't want to buy an American car called the Liberty (Cherokee in Europe). Same thing with car makes. I don't thing Seat or Skoda will ever be sold in the US. Americans would have a hard enough time pronouncing Seat (Say-aht) or Skoda (Shkoh-da).
AIADA web site
What do you think?
Next year, my wife and I will be moving back to the States and will probably be choosing between the Fit, Versa, and Matrix. My heart wants to go with the Fit, but based on the extra room, the larger engine, the availability of ABS & cruise, and the similar gas mileage and price, right now I am leaning toward the Versa. The only knock against it seems to be the issue of reliablity and resale value.
- ABS not standard. $700 option, even on the top trim level. Includes side airbags in this option. The problem is, 99% of dealers won't order ABS other than on the fully loaded models, leaving the rest of us without either safety feature if we choose a base model. These aren't optional safety devices on such a small car, IMO.
- Power windows and doorlocks not standard on the base model.
- The top model is $15K+
- Foglights are in the "sport" package, for $700 more, despite "sport" doing nothing to the suspension or tires.
- Sport package requires "convienence" package. Only available on the top trim line, too.
- Sunroof requires convienence and audio package($1000+$600 for the sunroof). The subwoofer is overkill and has to take space somewhere.
- Older technology engine. 1.8L and 120HP. Only 5 more HP than the Honda for all that displacement, pollutes more, weighs more... It's no VTEC 1.5 to be sure.
Packages and Options
Power Package $700
ABS and Curtain Air Bags Package $700
Base Price† $12,950.00 †
Total Packages, Options, & Accessories $1,400.00
Destination & Handling $605.00
Total Price† $14,955.00 †
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No Alloy wheels, no foglights... Not close to a Fit.
Base Price† $14,950.00 †
Total Packages, Options, & Accessories $700.00
Destination & Handling $605.00
Total Price† $16,255.00 †
This is for the SL with only ABS. This is a Fit competitor, but look at the price. I can get a Vibe/Matrix for that. And, again, good luck finding ABS on any car on the lot without the sunroof and such added(loaded model):
Convenience Package $700
ABS and Curtain Air Bags Package $700
Sport Package $700(requires convienence package)
Sunroof Package $600(requires convienence+audio packages)
Audio Package $300
Base Price† $14,950.00 †
Total Packages, Options, & Accessories $3,000.00
Destination & Handling $605.00
Total Price† $18,555.00 †
***
Eek. Just buy a Mini instead. The Fit - what will make it special is only 1-2 trim lines, no options. ABS, Side airbags, Alloy wheels, foglights - all of it is standard. Out the door for $14K, most likely.
What I think is most interesting is that the Fit (according to your information) will have fog lamps, A/C, power windows/locks/mirrors, stereo, your choice of stick shift or automatic/CVT, and alloys standard, when fog lights aren't standard on the more-expensive Civic and you have to get higher than base trim levels to get A/C, all the power features, stereo, and alloys on a Civic. And the automatic costs $800 on a Civic. With all that equipment on a $14k car, I wonder how that will affect Civic sales?
Apparently, the Japanese population doesn't get tired of the Fit either: Honda sold 10,180 of them in November in Japan, making it Honda's best selling model for the month, and the third best selling model in all of Japan...and that's without the new December MMC!
It's nice to see Honda actually take the socially responsible approach that lacks in so many companies today. Offer ABS and a proper set of airbags on ALL the models regardless of price. Coming up on the year 2006, years and years since front airbags became mandatory in the US, finally a company is introducing cars in the US that do not base the safety you get, on how much you pay.
However, while I think the Fit will be equipped better than the competition, don't expect fog lights and alloy wheels on the base model, unless you choose to add them as accessories. The base model will IMO look quite a bit like the Fit 1.3W:
It will have plastic wheel covers, and a simple layout. In regards to higher end models, I'm not sure. Honda hasn't actually said they are going to sell the Fit as "Base" and "Sport". That's the current speculation. They could still very well sell it in the traditional DX/LX/EX US-market trim levels. While I am leaning more towards the idea of a Base and Sport trim options, it will be the Sport that gets standard alloys and such, but that will be in the $15k, not $14k range.
Oh, and the Fit's engine will probably be rated around 105 hp, but not 115.
****
The prices I quoted above were for a *manual* Versa(sorry for the confusion). The automatic is ~$700 extra, like on the Fit.
But the 1.5L upper trim model has all the goodies and will come in at around $14-$15K with manual transmission. Honda won't option you to death, either. You buy the 1.5, you get the 1.5 trim package.
What's amazing is that the engines and a couple of minor things are the only changes between the 1.3 and the 1.5 versions. They are building the U.S. Fit in Japan, and from what I've read, they seem to be taking a rare approach of doing as little changing from the Japanese versions as possible.
I'm not sure about foglights on the 1.3. IF they offer it, it may be a "stripper", but that'd be fine - the 1.3W in Japan sells for roughly $12K if you convert currencies and refigure the taxes/tarrifs. $13K and 50mpg, with ABS and side airbags, A/C, and a stereo... Your perfect little commuterbox.
But so far, all the know will be coming is the 1.5. And it has all the goodies for several thousand less than the competition. How does Honda do it? The trick is one or two trim levels. No variation. You have automatics, manuals, two trim lines, and 6 colors(or so). 24 cookie-cutter cars. This saves them huge amounts of inventory an also on logistics. Finding one at a dealer's lot will also be a snap - DX or LX - color.. done.
Lastly, the sport package on the Fit they sell in Japan is quite nice. It actually makes the car drive better. Expect this to come in 2007 or 2008 if U.S. sales do well. Okay, that's a bit of a given - lol.
P.S. I actually like the new rear lights better.
I have this concern that will not be the case. From what I've heard, the Fit will not be shipped in large quantities to the U.S. It will be a nicely equipped, economical, roomy small car of high quality and will be priced in the same range as competitors from Korea. To me, all that adds up to long waiting lists and MSRP or MSRP+ pricing. Maybe I am being overly pessimistic, but I have seen this before at dealerships (cf. Odyssey, Prius) so I am a little leery about it.
The original goal is 50,000 for calendar year 2006, though I've heard Honda could supply as many as 90,000 Fits to the US market for calendar year 2006 if necessary.