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This is the vehicle that convinced me that small, nimble and efficient can be fun, and is the way to go. I see the fit as being similar in many ways.
There is no reason the 1.3 won't have plenty of power for this market. The key is to market its capabilities not its hp.
Make the 1.3 the standard engine and put the 1.5 in the si or ex version.
-Dudley
Actually, I would rather Honda--if they use the current engines--to use the L15A i-DSI (rated at 90 bhp) for the low end models and the L15A VTEC (rated at 105 bhp) for the high-end models. And offer standard CVT on the low-end and CVT-7 on the high-end models in addition to the five-speed manual.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I was ready to buy the Yaris and did not because in Canada it went down 1 mpg city and 3 mpg hwy compared to old generation Echo sedan/hatchback (eg old Yaris (hatch)).
Even the bigger, heavier 06 Corolla 1800 cc beats the new Yaris 1500cc (only engine) (except is 1 mpg less in city at 40 mpg) but approx 2 mpg more on hwy i think.
HONDA smarten up, i'm not the only one who wants MPG. Boy-racers most likely wont want the Fit as much anyway and will stick to the Civic so LISTEN before it's too late and you lose sales as well.
??? Has anyone tried getting official, say European, or Japanese MPG specs and tried converting them to Cdn or USA stats???
If done for "existing" cars like new Yaris that is out in Canada already, a formula can be devised to approximate the ratio and project it to the Fit for the various engine categories.
??? Does anyone have website lists with these official mpg figures they can post as a reply please???
I unfortunately believe Honda, like Toyota, will also drop the ball on this one and bring in only a 1.5 litre engine with highest HP they can wring out of it, eg meaning lowest MPG.
Europe, Japan, Mexico, et al. thinks differently than most of us here (better
This is so bloody frustrating trying to get high mpg these days. Whatever happened to original civics and old Austin mini's, datsuns, etc. all with 1000cc or slightly bigger engines. How did we manage to survive on the freeways back then?
Auto makers now collectively are all following the wrong trend, kinda like our population, getting bigger and heavier and less efficient. No one wants to take the risk of being the Leader, or do you Honda?
If Fit ends up coming in overweight and overloaded with a 1.5 litre etc. I likewise will not reward their stupidity and will NOT buy it. I might just buy a new or used Echo sedan thats still rated at 42 city and 54 mpg hwy in Canada.
Ithought about getting a used Echo, too, but these new/upcoming 2006/7 cars will very likely have significantly lower emissions. I'll just keep my clunker until they satisfy all requirements.
It should not be too much to ask. It breaks my nerves that we had 50 mpg options years ago but not now. We should have been improving with regularity since then, not getting significantly worse!
All this irritation does not make me want to buy. Why should I reward thse car makers for all the foot dragging? The Supreme Being only knows how much R&D they wasted on their stupendously horrific monster vehicles (Land Cruiser, Ridgeline, etc.) while they could have come up with something for the rest of us a lot sooner.
Yes, the 1246cc L12A i-DSI sold in Europe. 78 HP.
Would never sell in the United States though, since most Americans have this power obsession that less than 100HP will kill you. It's really neat to see in this forum that some Americans do see the light!
I cannot tell you how many times I have heard in the US, things like "Oh, I have a small engine. It's only a V6. That's all I need."
To me, the former generation European-spec (Hungarian-built
I didn't even dare the tell person with the V6 this
Fuel Economy (Honda Jazz UK)
1.2 i-DSI S
Urban > 34.59 US mpg
Extra Urban > 50.3 US mpg
1.4 i-DSI SE & Sport
Urban > 32.21 US mpg(Man)/32.66 US mpg(CVT-7)
Extra Urban > 46.11 US mpg
100KM=62.14M & 4.7L=1.2420Gal
100KM=62.14M & 5.1L=1.3477Gal
100KM=62.14M & 5.5L=1.4534Gal
100KM=62.14M & 5.8L=1.5326Gal
100KM=62.14M & 5.9L=1.5591Gal
100KM=62.14M & 6.8L=1.7969Gal
100KM=62.14M & 7.2L=1.9026Gal
100KM=62.14M & 7.3L=1.9290Gal
Fuel Economy (Honda Jazz AU)
1.3 i-DSI GLi
Combined 41.3 US mpg(Man)/40.5 US mpg (CVT)
1.5 VTEC VTi & VTi-S
Combined 39.2 US mpg(Man)/38.6 US mpg (CVT-7)
100KM=62.14M & 5.7L=1.5062Gal
100KM=62.14M & 5.8L=1.5326Gal
100KM=62.14M & 6.0L=1.5855Gal
100KM=62.14M & 6.1L=1.6119Gal
Fuel Economy 1991 Honda Civic Standard HB as stated in my brochure
City 33
Highway 37
Combined
42.8---1.2 i-DSI S
41.3---1.3 i-DSI GLi Man
40.6---1.4 i-DSI SE Man
40.5---1.3 i-DSI GLi CVT
39.9---1.4 i-DSI SE CVT7
39.2---1.5 VTEC VTi(S) Man
38.6---1.5 VTEC VTi(S) CVT7
35.0---1.5 Std Civic HB(91)
Honda doesn't seem like the kind of company that would allow information to just leak out into the public so easily, even if it was through an intermediary.
The only things that are certain about the US-market Fit:
-it will be sold as a Honda (not under another product line like Scion)
-it is to be introduced in the US Spring 2006
-it will be called the Fit
-it will be imported from Japan
-it will be a five door hatchback
-it will have a "few surprises for those expecting the steering wheel to simply move to the left"
There are some things that can be reliably assumed, like the safety features, which Honda has publicly noted in its "Safety for Everyone" campaign. However, it is not CERTAIN what exactly the Fit will get.
Everything else like transmissions, engines, fuel economy, price, available trim lines, and what generation it will be are completely unsure, and anything said about these are 100% speculation.
...even if pictures showed up from a Las Vegas Honda dealer convention.
Hey, I thought what happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas.
I went to a dealership to look at the Jazz. They have more models of Hondas over there than you can imagine. Go to http://www.honda.co.uk/front.html and you can see all the models that are available to them that we don't have here. They have Civic models there that we don't have. They also have the FR-V and HR-V that we don't have.
I can hardly wait for the Honda Fit to arrive here. I am also hoping that in the future we will get other models that are available in Europe.
I agree - this video is just BS until an actual copy or at least video stills are lifted and posted. Otherwise the proof is in the pudding... :mad:
Honda doesn't seem like the kind of company that would allow information to just leak out into the public so easily, even if it was through an intermediary.
I have this feeling we've ALL been hoodwinked.
Given that the CVT is the only automatic Honda has ever built for the Fit/Jazz, not to mention the fact the Fit will likely have its full model change (FMC) within the next two years, it would be probably be too costly for Honda to build a Fit with the five-speed automatic derived from the unit used on the 2006 Honda Civic for a relatively short production run. Note that the Mexican-market Fit (the closest variant to what we'll get in the USA) uses a CVT, even though the CVT is not the CVT-7 unit.
The Honda.co.uk website being British uses the same Imperial gallon size as Canada, eg 4.545 aprox litres to 1 Cdn gallon. The mpg figures s/b the same then once the car comes to Canada. The only differences will therefore be due to extra weight for North American standards and the "bigger" 1500cc engines not shown on the UK site.
That being said, for (closest to Canada/USA) UK 1400 cc, the mileage of 38.7/39.2 mpg city and 55.4 hwy for an 83 hp car is not that good even for this version.
Consider, once the car comes here we'll be going up prob 25 % in HP, extra weight etc. My guess is MPG will decrease 10% to 20% minimum for all stats so will be relatively crappy for Canada/USA.
UK sites "car comparison" feature shows (all stats for manual trans) e.g. Yaris with a 1.5 litre at 31.7 & 48.7 city/hwy and Yaris 1.3 litre (NO 1.4 for Yaris) at 41.5 & 57.6 city/hwy.
To me this shows that the new version Canadian Yaris higher than UK 1.5 Yaris in official mpg ratings, (diff test methods i'm sure), Canada = 41/51 city/hwy This works out to 41 - 32(Rounded) = 9 and 51-49(R) = 2.
9/32=28% higher rated mpg city and 2/49 = 4% higher hwy mpg for Canada.
Projecting this same ratio for UK 1.4 litre Fit which we KNOW is high compared to what we will most likely get, Canada stats could become... 38.7 UK x 1.28=49.5 mpg city and 55.4 x 1.04=57.6 mpg hwy at the highest using a direct conversion approach.
Now assume as i said above these will decrease by 10% to 20% minimum due to weight, 1500 cc etc then...
My best guess mpg range for Canada is to 39.6 to 44.5 mpg city and 46.1 to 51.8 hwy. Most probably will be on the low end of these.
Hopefully will be better but we'll see...If anyone sees any quirks in my logic please correct me, i kinda just rushed through this. (Sorry for details, Im an Accountant:)
I just bought a house and money is tight. So Im really into the 2007 FIT. I have a 3 yr old and want another kid.
Is this honda a safe vehicle??
Does anyone out there have car seats in their fit/jazz?
Thanx,
Coldstorage
It is a safe car. The US-market Fit will most likely be equipped standard with ABS, front and side airbags, and possibly side-curtain airbags as well.
I personally haven't owned a Jazz yet, and wouldn't be able to tell you if it would fit a child safety seat, but I see no reason why it wouldn't be able to. It has a normal sized interior.
Here are a few links regarding the Jazz:
Honda in-house crash test (frontal 50% offset, 50km/h) with a much larger Honda Legend/Acura RL (not in English, but the pictures speak for themselves):
http://www.honda.hu/galeria.php?act=biztonsag&ect=auto
Euro NCAP crash test 2004:
http://www.euroncap.com/content/safety_ratings/details.php?id1=1&id2=188
2) what is the "cvx" they keep talking about.
I want to get the 1.5, will that have the extra spoilers and stuff that goes around the bottom of the car.
Thanx for helpin me out. Iam really fired up about this "car"
It is called a car right, or a small van.
Coldstorage
You're kidding, right? IIHS is the premier independent crash test authority in the US. I'm pretty sure they understand the idea of crumple zones in modern cars. I'll wait to see how the Fit/Jazz comes out in their tests.
CVT? It means Continuously Variable Transmission. It is an automatic transmission that does not use gears and has a continuous flow of power, and an "infinite" set of possible gear ratios.
Often they are engineered to have set "shift points" that make it feel like the car is actually performing like a real automatic. The CVT delivers better fuel economy and performance than a traditional automatic, and it is usually simpler to repair.
Yes, it's a car
It is quite a bit higher than most small cars, but when you actually see it in person, it looks like a hatchback.
When you say "big vehicles" in America, do you refer to large SUVs like Expedition, Excursion, Suburban, Yukon, Escalade, etc.
...or are you talking about trucks and semi-trailers?
I was going to say...I saw an accident once where a Skoda Octavia (Volkswagen Passat) was smashed all the way to the B-pillar by a semi-trailer, and that is a very safe car.
It is true that Europe doesn't have these large SUVs, so I definitely see your point about that. For example, the biggest Ford SUV and pick-up sold in Central Europe are the Maverick (Escape) and the Ranger
Of course, the US is a completely different society, but having a Fit is not an unsafe car, even in the US. You have to take the same precautions driving a Fit in the US, as you would in a Civic.
In this case, we're talking about those big SUV's. In fact, the current IIHS side impact test uses an impact object that simulates the impact of something about the size of the current Ford Explorer or Chevrolet Tahoe SUV's.
MPG conversion
Looking over all the literature and comparing the Fit to the Scion xB, rated at 103hp/realworld 32 mpg with manual I would guess that a Fit with 1500cc and a CVT will get very similar mileage. This is about 10% better than my Civic, rated realworld 29mpg. (All realworld mileage figures from Consumer Reports. Very accurate in my experience.)
So while a 1500 cc Fit is not a big improvement in mpg,(50 gallon/year), the fact that it can be used as a hauler makes it a pretty useful improvement over Civic or Corolla.
I'm looking forward to the day when they add a couple of jumpseats so that the Fit can hold 7 in a pinch (literally) like the Volvo wagon and the Mercedes wagon.
Also a Fit using the Insight's 1.0 liter, 68hp engine, skip the hybridity, would be great, averaging near 50 mpg realworld overall and 60mpg on the highway.
May I request that people on this forum contact honda.com and let them know that you want conventional cars with the minimum power necessary to get on the freeway and to hold 70 mph and that you will buy them if Honda (or Toyota) produces them.
Nice to be here on this forum.
Bob
That's the great thing about the L12A and L13A i-DSI engines! The L12A produces 78HP and the L13A produces 83HP. The two spark plugs per cylinder creates a more complete burn of the fuel. This equates not only to cleaner emmissions, but also to more power. Compared to many engines, which reach peak power only at high RPMs, the i-DSI have a very wide high power curve that offers great performance at low and mid-range RPMs. Although the i-DSI engines tend to run out of breath at high RPMs, they make up for the power in low to mid range. This eliminates the need to shift at high RPMs for good performance, thus saving fuel once again
How would one go about contacting Honda? Any email address ....I think I looked for one awhile back and couldn't find one on their web site.
One other point I'd like to make. I hear of tax incentives for buying a hybrid car. How about a tax incentive for buying a non-hybrid car with hybrid-like gas mileage? Do you think congress would go for that idea? Imagine buying a $13,000 Honda Fit with a smaller engine that gets 45-50 mpg overall and on top of that get a tax incentive/rebate for buying it because it's considered a high mileage vehicle. Why doesn't congress enact something like that? If something like that passed congress, you better believe people in the US would be screaming for a smaller engined Honda Fit or similar vehicle from other manufacturers!
They won't even think of doing something like that until US automakers have cars that qualify and could compete.
They won't even think of doing something like that until US automakers have cars that qualify and could compete.
How about something like a tax break incentive to light a fire under the US automakers? They always say "Let the market decide what to make"...believe me if there was an incentive to make small high mileage non hybrid vehicles, even the US automakers would be selling them within 1-2 years. Currently there is little incentive. In the US we don't get small high mileage vehicles because the auto makers in their vast wisdom, "know they won't sell". I'm being tongue in cheek here because I really DO think they'd sell if they were offered....just look how well the hybrids are selling. Toyota couldn't keep the Prius's in stock there for awhile.
Funny you should mention that because both Ford and GM could easily rely on their European divisions to provide designs and production tooling for cars that could compete against the small Japanese cars.
Ford already has said that the next-generation Fiesta is coming to the USA, and GM could easily bring over the Meriva "tall wagon" (mostly because it's already being assembled in Mexico for the Latin American market). I wouldn't be surprised that GM is seriously looking at manufacturing the Daewoo-designed Chevrolet Aveo in the USA to meet higher American demand for the car.
Once people start getting used to seeing smaller, quality cars like the Fit, Yaris, and Versa, they will get the idea that small can be good. And I don't just mean subcompact, but I mean in other car categories as well. Take the Honda FR-V for example, or the Opel Zafira. Sure the Zafira is not a heart-stopper (although the new version looks nice), but it can comfortably fit 7 people in a car with a footprint less than that of a CR-V.
...and these are just the realistic possibilites. I didn't even go into some of the neat offerings from Citroën or Renault!
Please answer these questions if possible
1) two types of engines offered?
2) A CVT tranny??
3) 2 door and 4door??
4) multiple air bags??
5) 13-15K?
Thanx
1) two types of engines offered?
Lots of speculation, but no one knows for sure. You can probably bet on the 1,5L engine...the 1,3L is unlikely, but could be available as a fuel-efficient option. Honda has said nothing.
2) A CVT tranny??
It would seem logical, seeing that the only automatic transmission available throughout the world on the L-series engine is a CVT. However, there is some talk of a 5-speed automatic. Honda has said nothing.
3) 2 door and 4door??
It will be a 5-door hatchback.
Currently, the only "Fit" models are the 5-door hatchback (sold as the Fit or Jazz), and the 4-door sedan (sold as Fit Aria, Fit Saloon, or City). There is also the 5-door Airwave wagon (same platform) sold only in Japan.
There is no such thing as a 2 or 3 door Fit/Jazz.
4) multiple air bags??
It will have front airbags (obviously), and side airbags. Honda has the "Safety for Everyone" campaign in which they said all cars (excluding Insight and S2000) will have side airbags, side-curtain airbags, and ABS by the end of 2006. You can probably expect side-curtain airbags on the Fit as well, but Honda has said nothing.
5) 13-15K?
Most likely, since it will be Honda's new entry level car under the Civic, but it will have the "Honda premium" (from a price and quality perspective) over the Koreans. Honda has said nothing.
Expect to know more in January at the car shows. At that point lots more information will be revealed.
Maybe after the Fit...
Please answer these questions if possible
1) two types of engines offered?
2) A CVT tranny??
3) 2 door and 4door??
4) multiple air bags??
5) 13-15K?
****
#1: Most likely - Honda has the engines and it would increase marketshare(sespecially for the courier/delivery companies(plus pizza/food delivery).
2: Manual and a semi-CVT. It's a stepped CVT, so it drives like a -well, like a 6 or 7 speed automatic with paddle shifters.
3: 5 door. That's known. 3 door - not likely - there's no need and small 4 door vehicles outsellf 2 doors in the US by a huge margin.
4: Yes. All the goodies.
5: Yes. Hyundai is rightfully going to loose a lot of sales.
Thanx to Hungarian83 and pletko for answering my questions.
I am so excited about this car. i cant wait. It will be my first new car.
I have been researching other similiar vehicles.
The scion looks really small and I did not like the center dash. I hop the Fit will be bigger. The matrix looks better but it is more expensive 15-18k. The new Mazda is much more expensive.
So if they can keep the Fit in the 13-16K range, They will sell a lot.
Thanx
I'm starting to think that maybe the Fit isn't such a clear choice anymore..
But one of the things that bug me is that on the Civic you have to buy the most expensive EX model to get 4 disc brakes while they come standard on the Fit AFAIK. Talk about weird.
The Civic is a brand new 2006 model. It's going to be more efficient. Also, the new Civic has a much more aerodynamic body than the Fit.
Additionally, there has not been any verified proof that the Fit will really get 32/37 mpg. This information was apparently on a video distributed to American Honda dealerships, but no one seems to have seen the video, not even the person who posted the information. Take this story with a grain of salt.
Even if it is true regarding the mileage, the manual will get better mileage...better than the Civic.
As for the Hyundais, they problem is that Hyundai still suffers from a terrible image in the U.S. - it's better lately, but a Honda for the same price? That's a no-brainer, just as much as if they started selling Mercedes C-Classes at the same price as an Impala or Camry.
Canadian Driver did a comparison test of 10 small cars, giving them 50 litres of fuel and running them through a mix of driving terrain. Perhaps not the most scientific study, but the Civic got 58 miles per imperial gallon (=46 miles per US gallon), and was the only one to exceed its rated fuel economy.
This was the old Civic
Can we stick to the Fit here and not delve into Hyundai-bashing every few posts?
You can definitely expect a 5-speed manual in addition to the automatic.
The car will be available this coming spring 2006.
Since Honda has not officially released any specifications for the engine to be in the US-market Fit, we can't be sure about exact mileage, but you can probably expect 30s for the city and 40s for the highway.
It really is going to be likem well, a Honda. For a price that makes the other makers except Scion cringe. Oh - and gas mileage if they bring in the smaller engine - it'll be about 50mpg highway.