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As I have read here, the Fit is expected to get 33/38 mpg. Yet a 2006 Civic AUTOMATIC on the lot had a window sticker stating 30/40 mpg.
Does anyone have any idea why the Civic Automatic has better highway mileage than the FIT? And why is the city mileage only 10% better for an engine that is 20% smaller?
If one were to focus on mpg attributes (and not the nifty seats/ interior space) then I don't see an overwhelming advantage here.
Thanks for any comments.
Honda has said that they are going to build 50,000 units for a full year. Tha amounts to abvout 30,000 or so for the remainder of the year. Now top put it into perspective, Honda is building 300,000 units of the Civic. The 2006 Civic is a very hot car right now, every one that comes in is being sold and they are still being Pre-Sold. I've been with Honda for 6 years now and I've never seen ANY Civic sell like this.
The FIT will do very well as it is a niche vehicle.
I am driving a 95 Honda Civic HB VE with 170K miles and still average 40 mpg on regular--about 3/4 freeway miles. Any thoughts on whether the base Fit will match that?
Are there any pictures on the utility cargo option with the front passenger seat folded forward and the back seats folded forward? This is supposed to allow one to carry skis, 8' 2x4s, etc.
Civic manual: 30/38
Civic automatic: 30/40
Fit manual: 33/38
Fit automatic: 31/38
There are several reasons that the Fit gets comparable (or slightly worse) mileage to the Civic.
First, the car is not as aerodynamic as the Civic and the 60 inches of height do cut into the fuel economy gains of a smaller engine at higher (highway/motorway) speeds. Meanwhile the Civic is very aerodynamic and has a lower profile.
Second, the Fit was introduced in 2001 in Japan. The L15A (the engine the US is getting) was introduced in 2002 on the JDM Fit. It has an older VTEC valvetrain design compared to the not only much newer Civic R-series engine design, but much more advanced i-VTEC valvetrain which is incorporated on the Civic.
Third, the transmission. The 5-speed manual on the Fit is mechanically identical to the one sold in the rest of the world, although some of the gear ratios are unique to the US market. Each market has unique Fit/Jazz gear ratios, but the ones the US has are not the best for high fuel economy. The 5-speed automatic is a different story. The L-series engine is available on the Fit/Jazz, Fit Aria/City, and the JDM-only Airwave, Mobilio, and Mobilio Spike. On each one of the models, save the US Fit automatic, the CVT or CVT-7 is the only available automatic transmission. The CVT is much more fuel-efficient than a normal gear automatic with torque convertor. In fact, the mileage on a CVT is comparable to the mileage received on the 5-speed manual in other markets. However, putting a not-as-efficient 5-speed automatic on an engine series designed for the CVT does not help with fuel economy.
Fourth, while I'm not a Honda engineer, it could very well be that some of the emissions changes for the US market affected the mileage.
Anyway, the Fit is not supposed to be a hybrid car with stellar fuel economy ratings. You have to look at everything the car offers in one package, not just the fuel economy, or not just the magic seats. The car has a well-built, extremely versatile interior. It is no wonder that the Jazz in Europe is referred to as the B-segment car with a C-segment interior. Everything the car has: fabulous interior, magic seats, still good-looking exterior, well-powered engine, reasonable (for the class) fuel economy, and an excellent array of standard safety features , make it a class-leader.
On and on - the Fit is going to feel like the Mercedes of sub-compacts and well worth the extra $1000. Plus, ABS and side airbags *are* huge sellers. Ask most dealers - people usually trade up to a next larger model due to wnating to get those features.
With the Fit, you don't have to.
Hoping to see a 5 speed Sport on the lot soon. I'll be tempted though by the Civic Sedan EX with 5 speed which I recently test drove, especially if the Fit Sport comes in over $15K (got to have the cruise control). I also observed lots of Civics on the lot too. That means prices may be attractively negotiable compared to the new (& limited quantity) Fit...
That's why good things always come to those who wait.
In my opinion Honda is gearing the fit short so it will not compete with the hybrid, and to extract that hardly noticeable last ounce of acceleration. Honda is perfectly capable of making a high mpg car (Civic HX etc.) They choose not to. I think they feel that hip urban youth want a high revving vehicle that does not need to be downshifted for power instead of a relaxed and economical cruiser.
Toyota does a similar trick with their Scions - gears them real short. The Xb gets a very dissapointing 33/30 mpg - hardly better than an Avalon on the highway.
And the Yaris was... God, it was a Toyota Metro. No joke - better lookking, better engine, and bigger space-wise than the Echo, but GOD IT WAS CHEAP. It felt even less nice inside than the previous generation Rio.
Toyota made a car that's "just a car"(tm) so it wouldn't compete with the Scion Xa, which is the closest Fit competitor they have.
Hence the reason why I keep on thinking the Scion xA successor will be based on the Toyota Ractis "tall wagon" now on sale in Japan....
...a properly positioned instrument panel! :surprise:
Still, from pictures I have seen, the Ractis interior seems very cheap and plasticky. Not nearly as nice as the Fit.
You know, either the Fit was way ahead of its time in 2001 or everyone else isn't trying very hard.
If Toyota does sell the Ractis as the Scion xA successor, expect better-quality interior materials than what Toyota uses in Japan.
Ba-dum, PSSSSHHHHHH!
Good one, backy
Honda and Toyota had a chance to send a small car over to the United States, and in my opinion Toyota is doing a poor job.
A 3 door hatchback and a 4 door sedan will not attract as many people who are looking for a vehicle like this. A sedan offers zero-versatility when compared to a hatchback, and the Yaris sedan is quite small...to the point that I hear headroom is compromised. The fact that it looks like a baby Corolla with the grille of the new Camry isn't going to help it establish an identity. Meanwhile, the 3-door is good because it's a hatchback, but not having those two rear doors takes it down several notches in terms of usability. Sure, everyone says that Toyota wants to protect the xA sales, so it won't bring a 5-door, but I as well as many people who wouldn't want a xA, would have considered the 5-door Yaris.
Packaging. This is where the differences really show.
Fit: What a small car should be.
Yaris: What Americans think a small car is.
Fit has taken Honda's motto of a decade or two ago, "Keep it Simple" and modernized it. A well-equipped base model with practically everything a normal person would need (save cruise control and keyless entry). Then have a Sport model for those who want some agressive looks and some "toys" like paddle shifters. Very simple. Two models. One or the other, 5 speed manual or 5 speed automatic, and all the standard safety features you could want.
Yaris takes the American stereotype of small car = cheap and poorly-equipped and RUNS with it.
The base Yaris lacks things like a rear defroster and a rear windshield wiper. Even the Zastava "Yugo" back in the 1980s had a rear defroster standard. Also, in the year 2006 it still has only two airbags standard. To get anything you need, out come the famous Toyota "packages" which mix lots of things you don't want with the one item you do. And of course you can't have power mirrors unless you buy TWO packages. Still, after all this you still need to buy airbags separately.
[sigh]
Sad. Very, very, sad.
You would have thought they would have learned from the Scion method that selling a well-equipped car is a good idea, but I guess they haven't. Also, can someone tell me the logic in offering the 60/40 folding rear seats as part of the "Power package" while the MP3/WMA playback capability and auxiliary audio jack is in "Convenience". :confuse:
Hope to check out the Yaris and Versa as well.....
Can't wait to see a Fit in person........
They want a car a significant notch below the Xa. The Fit is like the Xa, but with less bling and a bit more substance. Just what 30-something families want.
From Yahoo News:
Iran Sanctions Could Drive Oil Past $100 By BRAD FOSS and GEORGE JAHN, Associated Press Writers
Sun Jan 22, 6:39 PM ET
A surge in oil prices last week to almost $70 a barrel on concerns about the restart of Iran's nuclear program only hints at what may lie ahead.
Prices could soar past $100 a barrel, experts say, if the U.N. Security Council authorizes trade sanctions against the Middle Eastern nation,...
It may or may not happen, but just the threat of it is already causing gas prices to jump. The higher they go, the more people are going to be looking for a car that gives them the most bang for their buck. The Fit "fits" that bill. Being locked in at MSRP may be a good move, come April.
The higher they go, the more people are going to be looking for a car that gives them the most bang for their buck. The Fit "fits" that bill. Being locked in at MSRP may be a good move, come April.
A Toyota Corolla LE w/ a Stick and Side Airs can be had for ~ 15K here in IL. It is not only larger and far more powerful; it also has higher FE then the smaller Honda Fit. I bet it will be less expensive given it can be had for a nice discount today?
Toyota Corolla LE 5-speed - EPA 32/41
Honda Fit 5-speed - EPA 33/38
If you are concerned about FE, the Fit is not the right choice imho.
Good Luck
Wayne R. Gerdes
Designed for Europe and adapted for North America.
Yaris takes the American stereotype of small car = cheap and poorly-equipped and RUNS with it.
I'm an American and I think the Euro inspired Yaris is just fine.
Hey, If you hate the Yaris so much, then let's discuss the Fit.
Not everyone wants a larger [exterior] car. I don't, and therefore the Fit or Yaris is a better choice for me than a Civic or Corolla despite the fact that they get similar fuel economy ratings. Also, the interior of a Fit is identical to that of a Civic in terms of passenger capacity. If you want a comparably equipped Civic, you would need to get an LX, which is thousands more expensive than the base Fit.
"Designed for Europe and adapted for North America...Hey, If you hate the Yaris so much, then let's discuss the Fit."
I am European and I don't hate the Yaris at all. I think its a great little car (minus the center instrument panel), but I think Toyota messed up a bit on the car they are selling in the US. The European version is quite well done...and in 5-door form, I might add.
Too bad Toyota decided to strip the car for the US market.
I'm an American and I think the Euro inspired Yaris is just fine.
The US market received the Americanized Yaris, not the Euro-inspired version. That's probably why you like it.
Thank you for saying this before I could get to it.
There seems to be an assumption that "bigger is always better." Why? I don't appreciate it when I rent a car and they give me a "courtesy upgrade" to something that requires a tugboat to park safely. You should see the face of the Hertz representative the last time I said, "But I don't want a bigger car."
In my case, I have a practical consideration requiring a smaller car -- a shortened garage space. But even when I didn't have that limitation, I prefer to drive something smaller and more nimble than most of the monsters on the road. Bigger is not necessarily better. If I can get the utility I need in a smaller package, that's what is best for me. I doubt I'm the only one.
As others have stated... I don't WANT a bigger car! It's not about what I can or can't afford, or precisely which car gets the best gas mileage. I want exactly what it is the Fit is going to give me: A decent, reliable car with a great set of options for the price, pretty good gas mileage, and in a 4 door hatchback. The fact that it just happens to be a Honda simply makes the decision that much easier.
I've had three Honda Civics (92 Si HB, 94 EX Sdn, 02 EX Sdn), and I loved each and every one of them. I didn't just blindly pick the Honda. I started my research from scratch each time, and in the end, the final decision resulted in the purchase of a Civic. Now, I'm in the market for another small car, and I don't like how large the Civic's have now become. Until I found out about the Fit, Honda was completely off of my list. I cannot imagine I am the only one thinking this.
Side Note: while I like Toyota's reliability, I don't like the way they package their options, and have never been impressed by the seats or interiors of their smaller cars.
My thoughts about Fit's mileage while passing gas stations was not so much about how incredible the mileage I thought I was buying into ... it's more of the mileage I will be getting away from, when my Dodge Dakota is no longer my daily driver (at 13mpg). The quicker that happens, the better ... and I wouldn't want to have to wait in line for my Fit.
http://www.houstonautoshow.com/2005/sneak.aspx
1. The first is a bit cheesy, but it irks me that Honda won’t offer a CD/MP3 player with MP3 plug-in on the base. The MP3 is the standard for mobile music now and I’m going to have to spend a bunch of dough to upgrade that one thing. And I don’t think those FM transmitters to hook in MP3 players to stereos are satisfactory.
2. Cargo cover is an option. You need a cargo cover for security. The fact that it is an option really bugs me.
3. The mileage. I know we don’t know for sure what the Fit will get, but the numbers we’ve been getting are not that impressive. That worries me. Okay, the truth is that cars do not get their published EPA mileage. According to Consumer Reports, the Echo at 38mpg combined is the highest non-hybrid, gasoline mileage car sold in the US. The new Civic is about fourth or fifth at 31 mpg. (No automatic gets 30 mpg combined. ) The Fit will weigh 400 pounds (400!) more than the Echo: 2150 vs. 2550. The Fit is only 200 pounds lighter than the new Civic. I’m not expecting the Fit to match the mileage of the Echo, but I would hope for something a little more than the new Civic. My current Civic gets about 31 mpg.
This is all about economics. I like what I see in the Fit, but does it make $$$ sense for me to get one? Or is it a better idea to keep my 92 Civic at 215K miles for another 100K?
2:The cargo cover is an option, true, but it's a dealer-available option you get tossed into the price. The dealer takes one out of the parts department stock. That's how it's "dealer available"
3:1992 - well, Hondas are good, but 15 years is about their normal lifespan, and yours probably doesn't have ABS, side airbags, and a ton of other nice features. It's up to you.
Re MPG:EPA tests for city are done on a dyno at very gentle acceleration. 25mph average for city and 45mph for highway. Completely unrealistic.
The reality:
60-70% of city rating is common for all cars.(the range is about 80% to 50%, depending almost entirely upon displacement) My old Buick would get 15 city and 30 highway, with an average of about 23mpg.
120% of highway rating is common for all cars, especially those with more gears.
So the Fit will be close to ~25mpg city and ~45mpg highway, in real driving, with an average of 30-35mpg. If you race it and flog it around town, it's going to get 25mpg. If you run it on long trips, it'll get well over 40mpg, due to the fact that the engine at 45-50mph on the EPA test is only turning a few hundred rpm slower than it is at 70mph.
So it kills it for me right there. I want something that I can sleep in in a pinch or haul stuff or whatnot. My father just gave me an old desk of his(nice one, actually - my mother is into "make the house look like a mini-mansion/retired person's home" mode - so lots of stuff is getting replaced). Anyways - it would have fit in the fit. My father had to get his friend with his small pickup to haul it as nobody's car could fit it in the trunk.
At least once a month I have something oversized that I could or would like to carry. I hate vans. So that leaves a micro-van/wagon as the best option. They don't sell the Mercedes A Class here in the U.S., so the Fit currently is at the top of the list.(the Xb was close as well, but it's - ack the styling hurts my eyes)
That should be about right, or maybe a little less. I just hope they don't try to raise the MSRP or stick on an ADMU since only three cars are being delivered in April.
The dealer I am ordering from in Southern California said that they get 1 Civic Si per month and add a $3000 premium. Of course, it will be nothing like that for the Fit, but I was not able to lock in my deposit with a guarantee on MSRP, so I am just praying they don't do anything with premiums.
2 more from my point of view - just sit in it for a couple of minutes and it REEKS of French car design...not the most logical switchgear etc...
Also Versa is coming out of Mexico - Note Japan like the first US bound fIT's
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As a rule, Japanese consumers are fanatically picky about, well, everything. They look at a Cadillac and comment about how the panels are "sloppy" as far as fit and finish - and then do the same to the Honda next to it at the show. Really tough crowd.
So in order to sell a car locally, they have to go over the cars like fanatics as well. That's why made in Japan is so much better. Q.C. is much much higher, even if the plant and people are nearly the same in skill and precision. It's the same reason most German-made Mercedes are better than U.S. made ones.
But made in Mexico? Oh dear - that's gotta hurt Versa sales right off. Mexico and Korea IME, have about the same skill in metalurgy and precision. Not bad, mind you, but a noticeable notch below most of Europe, USA/Canada, and Japan. For $14K? I want a 100% quality Fit instead of an 80% quality Mexico-built clone of the one sold in Japan.
Because there's no way they could even market a Mexico-made Japanese vehicle in Japan - nobody would buy it.
So why should we? I just want to see the thing in final form before I decide. I'm in no hurry.
67 220S - too mint condition to be a daily driver, though, plus 15mpg city. I need something for commuting that I don't have to worry about being scratched or stolen.
What do you think this will do for FIT sales?
Makes me think that the Fit will go the same route as the Civic: no smaller engines, just the addition of a hybrid.
Anyone find that disappointing?
How does the Fit handle in strong crosswinds, icy roads, or in snow? In my job I need to continue driving when road conditions are icy or snowy. So my car needs to be up to handling these conditions, but I don't like the poor handling or mileage of an SUV. I can throw a set of studded snow tires on my CX and keep on driving in up to 8" of snow or on black ice. My car is also fairly insensitive to crosswinds and I consider sensitivity to crosswinds a safety hazard since it increases the chances of losing control when driving on black ice. So how does the Fit do when driving in inclement weather?
can you quote them on that? I did web searches and looked at the 06 Lemon Aid on line and couldnt find any reference to it anywhere.
The fact that you are concerned with pricey out of state gas vis-a-vis the cheaper in state gas make me wonder if a new car is really in your budget. Gas really is a very small fraction of the cost of ownership relative to insurance, title and tax.
Your 400,000 mile beauty has specs like this:
weight= 2094lbs
horsepower= 71 hp
torque 91 lb-ft @ 2000 rpm
displacement 1.5 liters
And the 2006 Fit looks like this:
weight =2438 (from Temple of VTEC)
horsepower= 109 hp
torque = 105 lb-ft @ 4800 rpm
displacement = 1.5 liters
EPA est.(city/highway) = 33mpg/38mpg (also from TofVTEC and I hope they are really better)
So figure the Fit has twenty percent more weight and more than thirty percent more power and gives mileage that is 25-30% worse than your current ride, which sounds about right. I'm sure that the emissions and crash test data are much better on the 2006.
Interestingly, the 1992 automatic version of the CX give mileage(30 mpg / 37 mpg) WORSE than the 2006 Fit auto, so automatic technology has certainly advanced.
If you are waiting for a new 70 horsepower, 2000-lb car with a diesel-like torque peak and a 12 gallon tank, then I suggest that you keep that CX tuned up because she is going to turn over 1 million before that car ever comes, if ever.