Honda Fit

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Comments

  • oldone1oldone1 Member Posts: 9
    Don't expect a diesel engine in the fit although their are rumors of a diesel for the Ridgeline and the Pilot in the near future probably 2007. In Europe, Honda has several models with diesels, the accord and the CRV. Maybe if there is enough market push we could get the diesel accord but Americans are very much anti-diesel so I doubt that. Too bad we only get to get poor seconds when compared to the rest of the world.
  • borinda5borinda5 Member Posts: 6
    I never said the CX had a "mid-50's mileage. That was the Civic VX and the 3 cylinder Geo Metro/Chevy Sprint.

    Even though my car is a CX, it no longer has the 70 horsepower CX engine in it. I replaced the stock engine at 245,000 miles with a used engine from Japan (suspect it's engine from the DX, 102 horsepower, 98 ft-lbs) and that is the engine that is currently averaging 52 MPG, combined with a 10 second 0 to 60 MPH time.

    There are a number of advantages to lightweight 2000 lb cars. They are much faster accelerating, more nimble through curves and lane changes, have shorter braking distances, go over bumps without bottoming out as easily, and are easier to control in skids than an equivalent heavier vehicle.
  • mwqamwqa Member Posts: 106
    Per Lemon-Aid: 'Slotted below the Civic, this little economy car will also be sold as a hybrid.' (pg 281)

    It may be based on early information because the author wasn't sure if the car was to be called the Fit or the Jazz.

    If you want further info on the guide, you can go to www.lemonaidcars.com.

    I find it a seductive idea because I think the preference will be to offer an expensive, technically complex hybrid, not a less powerful car with a smaller, conventional engine. It's just not the American Way! :)
  • tifightertifighter Member Posts: 3,797
    Unfortunately, those advantages must be 'weighed' against the tendency to buckle like a spam can in an accident. Especially when the [hopefully rust-free] metal is 14 years old.

    A 2000 lb car would be great on track day, but for everyday commuting, a little extra structure and an airbag or two couldn't hurt. I've never been in an accident, but I'm still paranoid about it ;)

    25 NX 450h+ / 24 Sienna Plat AWD / 23 Civic Type-R / 21 Boxster GTS 4.0

  • xcelxcel Member Posts: 1,025
    Hi Backy:

    $16,800 for a Corolla? You mean the ~ $15K you can pick up the Corolla LE for, not MSRP. Not many pay MSRP except for those that have to have money down on one before release or it’s in such high demand you won’t be able to touch one? In either case, the 06 Civic LX w/ a stick can be picked up for ~ $15,700 w/ the Corolla LE’s another ~ $5 - $600 under that. Do you think the 06 Civic LX and Corolla LE are not better equipped then the ~ $13,500 - Base Fit? Not only does the Fit have a lower EPA rating, someone over at ToV did the calcs that this thing would be running at ~ 2,900 RPM at 65 mph or thereabouts. This would not be a comfortable 55 + mph car in the least let alone the performance issue vs. the Civic and Corolla. About fitting 5 … Remember the Fit’s interior volume comes about because of its height, not its width. I wouldn’t want to drive the Corolla or Civic with 5. The Fit is going to be even tighter by the looks :( I hope Hungarian will pull the specs for comparisons sake?

    Good Luck

    Wayne R. Gerdes
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    Replacing your engine with one of the super-efficient high compression engines from Japan would get you 50mpg. They made a model that was even more frugally tuned than the VX back then, IIRC, and if you got that puny engine...

    But that's hardly fair. You have a franken-Civic that gets an amazing MPG. For the rest of us, though, we're dealing with 15-25mpg in most of our cars and we've had it. Many people, like me remember the days of the old Honda CVCC Wagon fondly and want a modern version of it.

    As for the Corolla, $15,600 plus delivery and even one option "pack", like power windows or side airbags to brgin it up the Fit's level of amenities - or upgrading to an LE - it's $16K. $14K for the Fit or $16K for the Corolla. That's enough of a difference right there. Why pay 2K more for a car that carries the same number of people and cargo? That buys a lot of gas at only a couple of MPG difference.

    Let's say the Corolla has a 2K price difference and gets an average 5mpg more. Let's also say that gas is $3 a gallon. That's 1.125 more gallons every 40 miles, or 37.5 cents every 40 miles. That's 5333 gallons to make up the difference in price. *40mpg=a bit over 200,000 miles to make up that $2000 dollar difference. That's not even counting the extra tax, fees, and interest on the more expensive Corolla. That's another $750-$1000 over the life ot fhe car right there.

    Do the math. The Fit wins over a Corolla, hands-down, because it gets out the door comparably equipped for so much less money.

    This is why the Prius also is such a bad deal - it's so expensive that you never actually get ahead economically. Not even close, in fact.
  • xcelxcel Member Posts: 1,025
    Hi All:

    Here you go …

    Corolla vs. Civic vs. Fit

    Headroom: 39.3/37.1 - 39.4/37.4 - 40.6/38.6
    Leg Room: 41.3/35.4 - 42.2/34.6 - 41.9/33.7
    Shoulder Room: 53.1/53.5 - 53.7/52.4 - 52.8/50.6
    Hip Room: 51.9/46.2 - 51.0/51.0 - 51.2/51.0
    Cargo Volume: 13.5 - 12.0 - TBD
    Passenger Volume: 90.5 - 90.0 - 90.1

    Very comparable actually.

    Good Luck

    Wayne R. Gerdes
  • hungarian83hungarian83 Member Posts: 678
    Headroom (front/rear)
    Fit: 40.6 / 38.6
    Civic: 39.4 / 37.4

    Legroom (front/rear)
    Fit: 41.9 / 33.7
    Civic: 42.2 / 34.6

    Shoulder room (front/rear)
    Fit: 52.8 / 50.6
    Civic: 53.7 / 52.4

    Hiproom (front/rear)
    Fit: 51.2 / 51.0
    Civic: 51.9 / 51.0

    Passenger volume
    Fit: 90.1 cu. ft.
    Civic: 90.9 cu. ft.

    The differences are not that amazing considering the immense difference in exterior size. The only "big" difference is the rear shoulder room with 1.8 inch advantage for the Civic, but then again the hiproom is identical. To be honest, I wouldn't mind sitting with 5 people in a Fit anymore than in a Civic.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    The Corolla is a no-op for me because of an intolerable driving position, so it could be free and I wouldn't drive it. The Civic LX isn't much better equipped than the base Fit, which is surprising given that the Civic LX lists for $3500 more. I am using list prices because we don't know yet what the actual out-the-door prices of the Fit will be a few months after introduction. If you can get $1300 off list on a new Civic now, maybe you could get $1000 or so off the Fit later this year too.

    The bottom line is that a 4-door sedan doesn't fit :) the needs of some people. And some people may like the idea of a smaller car for getting into those tight urban parking spaces. Also they may like the idea of spending $2-3000 less for the Fit than for a Civic or Corolla. I already said that for highway cruising, the Corolla might be the better choice if the driver's seat works for you.

    I don't expect to fit 5 people of any size into a Fit, and I wouldn't want to stuff 3 people I like into the rear seat of a Civic or Corolla either.
  • xcelxcel Member Posts: 1,025
    Hi Plekto:

    Open up your favorite large city Sunday paper to see what Corolla LE’s are actually being advertised at. $16K is with an Automatic, not a stick. Not only will it receive better FE with the stick vs. the Fit, it is also more powerful. If the Fit can be found for $1,500 under MSRP after a few months, I would be very surprised as there may not be the same markup that there is with the Civic/Corolla contingent. Larger size, better performance, better FE, and more amenities make the LE/LX far better automobiles then the Base Fit although that is just one mans opinion …

    Good Luck

    Wayne R. Gerdes
  • kev604kev604 Member Posts: 30
    I couldn't agree with you more I wouldn't hesitate for a second to pay a little more for a Japanese vehicle built in Japan. The Japanese are the best when it comes to attention to detail. No short cuts. They know how to build a compact vehicle. You're absolutely right about trying to sell a Mexican built vehicle in Japan, you probably couldn't give it away.
    I own a Japanese built 1990 Acura Integra. I bought it brand new when I was 18 years old. Has 235 000 kms on it now, everything original including engine love it good on gas runs awesome.
    Last month bought a brand new 2006 Mazda 5 built in Hiroshima Japan. Can't believe the quality of the fit and finish inside and out. Looks and feels like a car that could of cost atleast $10K more.
    If the right vehicle comes along a few years down the road would consider replacing my beloved Integra. Would like to replace a Honda with a Honda. I like what I've read and seen about the Fit. But not 100% sold on the vehicle would have to test drive one to see how peppy the motor is and worried that it might be a little small but have to get into one before I pass judgement.
    I'm going to Japan next month and I'll be there for 3weeks, needless to say I'm going to have a field day checking out all those cars that we all wish we could buy here. :P
  • xcelxcel Member Posts: 1,025
    Hi Backy:

    Are you interested in replacing your Hyundai for the Fit and/or has parking been a problem?

    I am stating the obvious. Larger size, higher FE, more amenities (Cruise and exterior temp to name just 2), and similar costs. A B-Class sized sub running almost 3K RPM at highway speeds would be enough to make someone think they had better not drive one out on the highway? The 6 - 10” shorter wheelbase by comparison to the other 2 is going to be that much more unpleasant as well? I can’t wait to drive one but just looking at its specs has me scratching my head given the Corolla/Civic have so much more to offer and for similar prices. That is real world vs. the Fit’s almost guaranteed MSRP for the first 2 - 3 months and who knows how much markup Honda has allowed the dealerships to play with on this entry level automobile?

    Good Luck

    Wayne R. Gerdes
  • hungarian83hungarian83 Member Posts: 678
    "Larger size, better performance, better FE, and more amenities make the LE/LX far better automobiles then the Base Fit although that is just one mans opinion …"

    We've already been over larger size, and I think most people who are looking for a Fit don't want a larger car. McDonald's offers the regular sized french fries when you purchase a meal. They also have Super Size. Super Size is technically a better value, but I don't want it because I don't need more food than I need to fill me up. Do we need to wonder why the US has the highest average BMI of any industrialized nation? Same principle applies to the Civic. It is BIGGER. Does that make it BETTER?

    I know that if I get a Civic, I don't think anybody would care that it cost $x.xx / pound vs. the Fit. However, people would probably be pretty impressed by the interior versatility of the Fit.

    Seeing the amazing similarities between the Civic/Corolla and Fit in interior room makes me wonder why I would need all of that extra exterior space. The mere fact that the Fit is able to have such a small exterior size makes me think that maybe it is designed with more thought. Of course, it was originally designed for the Japanese and European markets which makes it appeal to me even more since they really tried to maximize the interior and minimize the exterior without compromising quality, safety, or reliability.

    $13k will give me a Fit 5-speed manual with A/C, CD player, power windows/mirrors/locks, ABS, 8 airbags, and 33/38 fuel economy.
    Is 33/38 the most efficient? NO
    Is 33/38 efficient? YES
    It would make the Top 10 easily:
    http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/list/top10/108467/article.html?tid=edmunds.h..res- earch.topten.3.*

    It's also built in Japan. I will gladly take a Japanese built car over a Mexican or US or Brazilian or whatever (!) built car any day. My 18 year old Japanese built Accord lasted 260k miles before I got rid of it. The engine was still flawless, and I mean flawless. Had it been a manual transmission, I still would be driving it.
  • w9cww9cw Member Posts: 888
    I'm really happy the Fit is coming to the USA, along with the other small cars. It's about time! Europeans have had wonderful transportation alternatives for years, but not so in the USA. There are many folks in this country that share the same "mind set" as Europeans. Not everyone here wants a SUV.

    In terms of build quality and attention to detail, I believe this is unquestionably an Asian mentality trait and characteristic. I've owned Honda's, Toyota's, and now a Hyundai. This 2006 Hyundai's build quality and attention to detail is every bit as good as any Honda or Toyota I've owned, and I say that with all seriousness with over 40 years of buying new cars. Peek, and poke, and scrutinize every nook and cranny of the car, and I defy you to differentiate it from a Honda or Toyota. Will it last 200K+ as my Japanese cars? That remains to be seen, but from my initial experience with the car, I would say yes.

    Bring on the Fit, I will be one of the first in line to buy one.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I will be adding a 3rd car in addition to my two Elantras--more drivers in the family now.

    Parking is not a problem for me, but I live in suburbia. When I said that some people would appreciate having a smaller car to fit into tight parking spaces, I wasn't talking about me--but people who live in places like NYC, in-town Chicago, and San Francisco.

    If you think a price difference of $3000-3500 is "similar", well, that is up to you. I think it is a big difference. Civics were very hot when they were first introduced, now a few months later you have noted how they are available for less than invoice, even though they should be extremely popular with gas prices so high. So perhaps we'll see less-than-invoice pricing on the Fit also. Although personally I think we will see the prices of small, fuel-efficient cars like the Fit, Civic, and Corolla trending up in the near future if gas prices jump as many predict.

    Cruise control is available on the Fit. Not a biggie though if the car will be used mostly in-town, for which I think that car is exceptionally well-suited. As for exterior temperature, that is available on the Fit also: open window, stick hand out of car, raise window. :) There's also the radio--they are known to broadcast the temperature. Weather.com does a pretty good job of that too--easy to check the temperature before I jump into my car. I don't know how I have lived all these years owning just one vehicle that had an outside temperature display.

    The Prius is bigger (more interior room), has higher FE, and many more amenities than the Civic or Corolla, yet I don't see you running out and buying one of those. That tells me you do understand that being bigger, having higher FE, and more amenities isn't everything. But you forgot the huge "extra amenity" that the Fit has that no Civic or Corolla has: amazing cargo flexibility. Why is it so hard to understand that not everyone wants a 4-door sedan, especially one as boring as the Corolla?
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    "Why is it so hard to understand that not everyone wants a 4-door sedan, especially one as boring as the Corolla?"

    Amen! :-)

    The magic seat the Fit will have will be its trump card, and the reason I think it will outsell the other new entrants in this class of cars.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    Toyota Corolla LE 5-speed - EPA 32/41
    Honda Fit 5-speed - EPA 33/38

    If you are concerned about FE, the Fit is not the right choice imho.


    After observing Toyota for last few years, I wouldn’t put too much emphasis on EPA ratings. And in case of Fit, the ratings may be more realistic (and potentially easily beatable) more than it could be in Civic or Corolla.
  • hungarian83hungarian83 Member Posts: 678
    Actually, if you combine the fuel economy using the EPA combined standards of 55% city and 45% highway that gives the Fit a combined of 35.25 and the Corolla 36.05. Using the same average, the Civic 5MT would be 33.60 combined EPA.

    Not a whole lot of difference between Fit and Corolla. Assuming you traveled 250 000 miles at 15k miles per year, that would amount to $23.61 per year difference in fuel at $2.50/gallon and $33.05 per year at $3.50/gallon between the Fit and Corolla.

    In real life driving I can almost guarantee that the realistic fuel economy driving will be identical for the Fit and Corolla and a bit higher than the Civic.
  • tifightertifighter Member Posts: 3,797
    You guys see this?

    Swift comes to US

    It is nice to see this category get bigger in the US. The new Swift is regarded pretty highly in Europe; even Tiff on Fifth Gear thought it was a surprisingly good drive.

    25 NX 450h+ / 24 Sienna Plat AWD / 23 Civic Type-R / 21 Boxster GTS 4.0

  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    I've seen Swifts in person, they look good. However, I doubt their success here, unless Suzuki can turn on some magic. US market is quite different from Europe.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    You mention that the Fit would run about 2,900 rpms at 65mph. Keep in mind, the Civic runs 2,600 rpm at 60 mph. My 4-speed auto 96 Accord runs 2,900 rpm at 72mph, not much better. It has plenty of pickup without downshifting, though. 2,900 rpm at 65mph isn't THAT bad.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    It is 2900 rpm at 60 not at 65 - makes a difference. Out here in the boonies where the speed limit is 75 and cruise set at 80 is the norm (85 if you are in a hurry), that is just to many revs - pushing 4,000. It gets tiring and uses more fuel.

    It is not that the fit does poorly, but something as simple as adding a 6th gear to the MT version (or gearing taller) would probably add 3-4 mpg on the highway.

    Also some of us that are comparing the Corolla et all, are not saying the Corolla is better, just that Honda should be able to (and can if they really want) easily exceed the economy of a larger car with a larger more powerfull engine.

    I think Nissan hit the Fuel economy nail on the head with the Versa - a nice 6 speed manual with a tall cruising gear. Too bad reliability may be questionable and it is a little ugly.

    With gas heading towards $3 per gallon, Honda should be able to coax more mpg out of the Fit.

    To be honest I might get an Accord over the Fit as the improvement in mpg is barely 10%, and the Accord has much more room.

    With the Fit I don't think I could convince the whole family to take it on any trips of note instead of the minivan. While an Accord would use more gas than the fit I would be able to sometimes take it instead of the minivan and save gas that way.

    I am in no hurry, so we will see how it plays out. Maybe a 6 speed will be offered next year, maybe the Yaris will be a nice little car, maybe the new Elantra will offer better mpg.

    Nice to have options.

    BTW if Honda brought over a diesel Accord wagon I would be sold in a hearbeat. Same goes for a Corolla wagon (more room than a Matrix and more eficient).
  • kagedudekagedude Member Posts: 407
    Wow! All this time Plekto's comparing the Fit vs the Mini Cooper, it should have been the Swift all along. What a nice car. :) With the Fit's disappointing gas mileage and stock equipment, I've been checking out the Civic Coupe and now the Swift. Checked Suzuki's global site and it has nice everything so far, wonder how it drives. Remember the Suzuki Swift GT? They should just bring that back.
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    Suzuki is also a top contender - the Swift is a nice car. But, they won't possibly give us the turbo-diesel option, at 50mpg I can guarantee it, so the winner is still the Fit in my book, because of the seats. The fold-up seats are amazing as anyone with them in their extended cab truck will tell you. You can toss a bike in there, for instance, without taking it apart(maybe unhook the front wheel depending upon size). My old Buick I had to also take off the rear wheel to fit it in the trunk, despite the fact that it was a rather large trunk. That big-screen DLP TV? It'll slide right in - or at least the smaller models will. And we're not even getting to plants or other things that you can't really put on their side.

    Plus, you can do it with one side only, making it good for people with only one child in a pinch. The Versa, for instance, well, good luck.

    Now, I've not seen the Swift, but it seems to have a problem - we don't want small - we want small AND quality. Another tin-can like the Yaris isn't going to sell and they'll be scratching their heads as Fits and Coopers roll off the lot as fast as they get them. Not a hard idea to wrap your head aruond, actually - take an Accord or Lexus ES or even a Towncar and make it half the size. Same features - just smaller.

    For me, though, MPG is moot. My old Mercedes gets about 10-15mpg, so any improvement for my daily commute will be a god-send. Save the fancy car for the weekends and trips.
  • hungarian83hungarian83 Member Posts: 678
    I think the problem with the Swift (for the US) is that it is so small...much smaller than the Fit. I have seen it in person, and it is an incredible improvement over the previous generation, but it's really tiny. Very cute though.

    In my opinion it is truly well built, and not just because all units for the European market are made in Hungary ;)
    US models would be made in Japan (if it actually happens).

    However, the car is very small in the inside and can only fit a fraction of what the Fit/Jazz can hold. In fact, there was a comparison done (during the summer 2005) by a Hungarian TV show called Totalcar. They compared 5 cars in this category and found the Jazz and the Swift to represent the two ends of versatility. The Jazz could hold everything (including some rather large, akward items: huge beach ball, office chair, mountain bicycle) and it still had room to swallow more. Meanwhile, the Swift was stuffed beyond shutting the hatch and it only fit half of the items of the Jazz...and no bicycle.

    The Swift would have to offer something special to compete against the Fit. When it comes to the whole package, the Fit/Jazz really is the class leader.
  • xcelxcel Member Posts: 1,025
    Hi Backy:

    If you think a price difference of $3000-3500 is "similar", well, that is up to you. I think it is a big difference. Civics were very hot when they were first introduced, now a few months later you have noted how they are available for less than invoice, even though they should be extremely popular with gas prices so high. So perhaps we'll see less-than-invoice pricing on the Fit also. Although personally I think we will see the prices of small, fuel-efficient cars like the Fit, Civic, and Corolla trending up in the near future if gas prices jump as many predict.

    The 06 Civic LX’s as well as Corolla LE’s are already in the 15’s and the Base Fit does not compare to the LX or LE. The Corolla CE can be had for $2,000 LESS then the cheapest Base-Fit according to the Edmunds - Toyota Corolla - Prices Paid and Buying Experience forum. The CE is a stripper no doubt but in a similar way the Base Fit is packaged when compared to the LX/LE.

    The Prius is bigger (more interior room), has higher FE, and many more amenities than the Civic or Corolla, yet I don't see you running out and buying one of those. That tells me you do understand that being bigger, having higher FE, and more amenities isn't everything. But you forgot the huge "extra amenity" that the Fit has that no Civic or Corolla has: amazing cargo flexibility. Why is it so hard to understand that not everyone wants a 4-door sedan, especially one as boring as the Corolla?

    I am not interested in purchasing any of those cars as I already have an Accord that does quite well in the FE department, semi-lux amenities, higher safety, better handling, etc. etc. etc. thank you. What I do see is the third and fourth best selling automobiles in the United States vs. a B-Class 5 year old design that isn’t worthy of a similar $ amount given the FE, performance, size, and amenities of the FAR MORE popular alternatives. As for who wants a sedan, I don’t know who that would be but the following link might help even if it is a bit OT?

    http://www.aicautosite.com/editoria/asmr/svsedan.asp

    MY 2005 Total Sales

    Camry: 431,703
    Accord: 369,293
    Corolla: 341,290
    Civic: 308,415

    After observing Toyota for last few years, I wouldn’t put too much emphasis on EPA ratings. And in case of Fit, the ratings may be more realistic (and potentially easily beatable) more than it could be in Civic or Corolla.

    RobertsMX, having driven a Toyota Prius to double its EPA city and owning an 03 Corolla that killed the EPA’s City/Highway, I would beg to differ although the Accord has matched the best the Corolla could offer when using all the latest techniques. The Corolla never got the chance to see them is all ;) The following might convince you to reconsider your views however?

    http://www.drivingtelevision.com/segmentviewer.php?episode=312

    You mention that the Fit would run about 2,900 rpms at 65mph. Keep in mind, the Civic runs 2,600 rpm at 60 mph. My 4-speed auto 96 Accord runs 2,900 rpm at 72mph, not much better. It has plenty of pickup without downshifting, though. 2,900 rpm at 65mph isn't THAT bad.

    TheGraduate, you really should test drive the latest Gen Accord’s w/ Auto or Stick, Civic’s w/ Auto, and Corolla’s w/ Auto or Stick. None push anywhere near those RPM’s at highway speeds and thus the higher FE along with being more powerful. Taking a Honda Fit for along distance highway commute at that high a rev sounds painful to me :(

    Good Luck

    Wayne R. Gerdes
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    The 06 Civic LX’s as well as Corolla LE’s are already in the 15’s and the Base Fit does not compare to the LX or LE.

    Why not?
  • xcelxcel Member Posts: 1,025
    Hi RobertsMX:

    Did you see the video I linked in regards to real world FE of Toyota’s and Honda’s? All I can say is I am at an extreme disadvantage in the 05 Accord EX-L w/ NAVI but still manage to do OK ;)

    Why not?

    www.toyota.com --> 06 Corolla LE
    www.honda.com --> 06 Civic LX

    http://www.vtec.net/articles/view-article?article_id=473241

    Good Luck

    Wayne R. Gerdes
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    It's intriguing to me that you seem to like to participate in discussions about cars in which you have zero interest.

    Also, I see no point in comparing a stripper Corolla that does not have anywhere near the equipment of a base Fit, including ABS, side bags/curtains, and all the power accessories, to the Fit, price-wise.

    We get it: you don't like the Fit. Glad you enjoy your Accord.
  • hungarian83hungarian83 Member Posts: 678
    Hi Wayne,

    No one is doubting the fact that sedans are the most popular cars in the United States. What we are trying to say is that not everyone wants a sedan. Most people do, but most is not the same as everyone. It seems kind of silly to try and bash the Fit against the Corolla or Civic (which incidentally moved upmarket to allow for the Fit) when they are serving different purposes. I see you really don't like the Fit, and while criticism is a good thing, all I'm seeing here is a continuing argument that really is going nowhere.

    Also, could you please list the ways "Base Fit does not compare to the LX" ?
    Let's use a Fit 5MT vs. a Civic LX 5MT sedan for this comparison.

    Thanks!
  • bamacarbamacar Member Posts: 749
    Two of the cars I have looked at were the Corolla and Fit.

    I find it hard to get past the boring look and feel of the Corolla and the lousy driving position. That is only the first problem. Here in the Southeast I attempted to find a Corolla LE manual transmission with ABS and Airbag Package. The number of LEs in the whole Southeast region with manual transmission and airbag package: 0. The number of LEs with ABS in the Southeast region: 0.

    I am looking at the Fit Sport with manual transmission. It will have the airbags and ABS standard. I want the MP3 capability and the auxillary jack; Corolla does not have either. I want the hatchback and seat versatility. Corolla has neither. Hatchback versatility and cargo volume on the Fit with seats up: 21.3 cubic feet; Toyota: 13.2. The Fit Sport also includes alloy wheels and fog lights.

    Wayne, if highway fuel economy is all that matters to someone, then the Corolla is better. In about every other category including city mpg, standard features, versatility, the FIT is better.

    Are you disappointed in the FIT's highway mileage? Join the club, but the car has many other attributes that leaves the Corolla looking like the old design. Do you detest the Yaris too because of its lower than Corolla highway mileage?
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Actually, age-wise the Corolla and Fit aren't that far apart. The Fit debuted for 2001, correct? And the Corolla debuted in early 2002 as a 2003 model. Other very popular cars are about as old: the current Camry (best-selling car) debuted in 2001 as a 2002 model, and the current Accord debuted in 2002 as a 2003 model. Based on the teething problems that many new cars have, including some Hondas like the '01 Civic, '03 Accord, and '06 Civic, the fact that the Fit that is coming here is a proven, time-tested design is not a bad thing IMO.
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    You mention that the Fit would run about 2,900 rpms at 65mph. Keep in mind, the Civic runs 2,600 rpm at 60 mph. My 4-speed auto 96 Accord runs 2,900 rpm at 72mph, not much better. It has plenty of pickup without downshifting, though. 2,900 rpm at 65mph isn't THAT bad.
    ****
    One thing to note is the engine displacement. 1.8L versus 1.5L is a 20% difference, so at any simmilar RPM, the Civic is using more gas per revolution. 3000rpm in a 1.5L engine is comparable to 2400 in a 1.8L. The Civic is more efficient, though, so it appears to be a pretty close competition - mostly due to aerodynamics, which the 2006 Civic clearly wins at.(older Civics OTOH, are a whole other story)
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Hey Wayne...

    I have driven a 2006 Accord EX Auto. It's my own car. At 60 mph it pulls exactly 2,000 rpms. The Civic is at 2,600 rpms, and the Fit around 2,750. My 1996 Accord runs about 2,400 rpms, and I wouldn't want it to run any less. With gearing like it is, the car does not have to downshift in order to accelerate. It also isn't terribly loud, although my 2006 is quieter (mainly due to more sound deadening). At 75 mph it runs 3,000 rpms. My 2006 runs at 2,500 rpms. Not painful in either one, and the 1996 is just as punchy in top gear with the shorter gearing, despite the 40 horsepower difference in the two cars.

    I'd test drive the Fit and check out the sound-insulating abilities before completely writing it off, if I were you.

    Good luck, and happy motoring! I'm off to NBC 13 (nbc13.com) studios for my mass communication class, so I'm out for the evening.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    I don't think you were talking about FE, were you? Especially given that you mention trim levels and price.

    And if you were, where did you get real life data on Fit to compare?
  • jetphiljetphil Member Posts: 1
    I recently bought a Honda Fit/Jazz and I'm considering changing out the rims to 16" or 17". Does anybody have experiences/horror stories if this will not compromise the ride/overall performance of the car?
  • mwqamwqa Member Posts: 106
    I was hoping that ABS would be an option on the Canadian base DX model but it doesn’t look like it will be.

    So - everyone believes that ABS is the way to go? :confuse:
  • kagedudekagedude Member Posts: 407
    Just realized in the pics of the Fit, I do not see a cover for the trunk area. Is there one or is it open? If not, there will be lots of shaking going on.
  • kev604kev604 Member Posts: 30
    Why in the world would you want to put 16" or 17" rims on the Fit?
    The Fit is a subcompact economy car that doesnt have any where near enough power to make use of that much rubber. In my opinion you'd just be wasting your money.
    The 14" and 15" rims that come with the respective models are more then adequate for this type of vehicle.
    If you don't like the look of the stock rims you can certainly change them to some other flashier ones but it's not neccesary to upgrade tires and rims to that size.
  • hungarian83hungarian83 Member Posts: 678
    "The 14" and 15" rims that come with the respective models are more then adequate for this type of vehicle."

    I agree.
    16 or 17 is overdoing it. Anyway, the Fit/Jazz already handles quite well with the stock wheel sizes in both aggressive driving situations and emergency maneauvers.

    jetphil,
    May I ask which engine is in your Fit/Jazz?

    In response to an earlier post regarding Canadian Fits with ABS, I think even the DX model will have it. The "Safety for Everyone" is for both Canada and the US. Anyway, it says on Honda Canada's site for the Fit, "In addition to Anti-Lock Braking System (ABS) and front and side airbags, every Honda Fit comes equipped with side curtain airbags."

    All US and Canadian Fits (DX, Base/LX, Sport) should get the same standard safety features.
  • jonniedeejonniedee Member Posts: 111
    16's are a U.S. factory option wheel so they can't be too big for the car... ;)
  • dewaltdakotadewaltdakota Member Posts: 364
    Okay, I have to admit, I was going through withdrawl.

    A whole day with no new posts was just too much. :cry:

    A note to Edmunds... PLEASE give a little more notice, next time you plan on taking down the boards for a full day!?!
  • dewaltdakotadewaltdakota Member Posts: 364
    I never understood the concept around getting as big a wheel on your car as possible, to the point where your tire sidewall is so small, it a) provides absolutely no cushion to your ride, and b) always looks flat.

    But then, the cars with those wheels are usually slammed to the ground, and booming and thumping with extremely loud stereo systems, as well.

    Buy stock in hearing aid companies, while the prices are still cheap!

    My wife jokes that the young guys these days must believe everyone else links the size of their wheels to the size of their ... um ... tires - thus the overcompensation. ;)
  • woknwowoknwo Member Posts: 6
    Absolutely!! You can for sure go to the 16"'s!... it's a Dealer option on the soon to be released American issue Sport Fit. It's my preference, and I plan to get those before I drive off the lot! (They better look hot though!) Also your steering and handling geometry should stay right-on. If you did pick the Honda 16”s, they will be Honda quality and guaranteed, keeping any questions of the warrantee in place, and extra's rims available in case of needing to ever replace one. Their offset will be just right.. no guessing.. The 17's may have a bit harder ride because of the smaller amount of sidewall available if you fit it with low profiles, but would probably look very cool... Just make sure they fit and turn with enough clearance when you hit a dip hard. At that point, usually what you gain in looks, you may start to loose in the smooth ride, but that's OK if you like it that way. It most likely would be quite fun and great for rallying! The 1.5 motor has plenty of power out of the box for larger wheels. Maybe a dyno will notice, but not you or me. That is really a non-issue. And if it became one later, there are many bolt on’s, such as cold air intakes and high flow cats/exhaust available that will easily turn it into a power cat in just an afternoon! (Remember also, that with larger wheels, you can maintain the exact same height as what you are replacing if you go to the lower profile tires.) And usually with a larger rim, the width generally goes out another ½” to 1”, so you will have more meat/footprint hitting the road for more aggressive/safer cornering ability and overall stability. “Fit to be Tied!!” As far as the advice of "the adequate 14"s..." UGG.!! If you want an adequate car, get a Ford! Lots of Fit's are destined to be mildly to massively 'Tuned'! ..as they are in Japan.. ('Mugen' is a big aftermarket distributor among many). As far as I'm concerned, the loaded Sport Fit is just the beginning...clay to be molded by guys thinking/dreaming like you.. go for it!!.. let the Grandpa's drive their adequate' Fits.. “Why in the world would you want to put 16" or 17" rims on the Fit?"....For Fun, Handling, Sport and Style~!! :shades: :shades:
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    ABS is likely to be standard, along with side airbags and side curtain airbags.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    There used to be a time, not so long ago, when cars like Accord and Camry used to run 14-inchers. Now, we're talking about Fit with 16-17 inch.

    Couple of problems there. One, larger wheels are likely to add to the unsprung weight (and overall weight of the car), besides the tires are going to be more expensive too.

    Personally, I would be very happy with 15-inchers.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,242
    A reporter is looking to speak with a Southern California resident who is interested in the Fit, Versa and/or Yaris. Please send an e-mail to jfallon@edmunds.com no later than Monday, January 30, 2006 containing your city of residence, your daytime contact information and your opinion of these vehicles.

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
    Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
    Review your vehicle

  • jonniedeejonniedee Member Posts: 111
    Thanks Woknwo - I think most car buyers do want the added handling and performance that 16 + " wheels bring to the picture - as far as additional sprung weight I have to think that an alloy 16 can't be that much more than a stamped "pot" steel 14... :D
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    Me? I'm looking at what 14 inch alloy options exist for it.

    Strictly speaking, anything larger than about 14 inches on a car this small starts to affect handling and fuel economy. It also can't possibly utilize larger tires to their potential in turns and traffic, either - it's just wasted. People all the time tell me to put wider tires on my old Mercedes. Um... I've gone this route. What I get is better straight-line high speed handling, but I usually end up with worn out bushings and lots more actual steering problems(oversteer is more common). The stock tires are thin and a bit loose above 80mph or so, but the car turns on a dime in city traffic. Oh - I'm running 185/13s on it and it weighs 3000lbs. *slightly* more than the Fit.

    Now, you're going to probably yell something about how can larger tires make for worse handling?

    The couple of feet you loose on the turning radius should be your first big clue. You actually want tires on your car to be as small and narrow as possible while providing proper traction - that is, unless you race it. For most smaller cars that only have about 100HP, that's usually something in the 13-14 inch, 175-185 range. Modern tires are worlds better than what we had even twenty years ago as well.

    The second clue is the weight. If the car is too light and the tires have too much resistance and traction, the car actually starts to fight itself in turns, much like the effect you get in a large truck or bus. You can carve single turns better and brake a bit better, but the car has worse and worse ability to slalom and to quick transitions. In short, big tires and city traffic are just not made for each other.

    Thirdly, is that low-profile tires have a huge problem with city roads. They suck up potholes and vibrations and crud like nails at an alarming rate compared to higher-profile tires that would just ignore such abuse.

    For a car this small, 13 inchers would be adequate. 16-17? Don't say I didn't warn you.

    P.S.
    The Del Sol VTEC, a comparable car in size and weight, came with 195/60VR14 tires. These were the "larger" tires. The Fit, at 60% of the HP - um - even 15s seem a bit silly in this light.
  • hungarian83hungarian83 Member Posts: 678
    The person who started this particular discussion said he has a Fit/Jazz. Well, that obviously means he's not in the US or Canada, and there is a good chance he could be driving an L13A or possibly an L12A.

    Anyone who tries to "race" an i-DSI Fit/Jazz is in for a particularly rude awakening. Now, the i-DSI is a great little car with a strong mid-range power band, and sufficient acceleration to give a fun ride, but its primary function is fuel economy, not power. As for the L15A, it is designed more for power (109 in this car is beyond adequate, especially if it is equipped with a manual) than fuel economy, but I'm not sure I would really want to race it.

    ...and no woknwo, the people who want the Fit as a sensible car are not necessarily senior citizens. I'm in my mid-20s and this will be my first new car. I want a safe, well-built, efficient Honda hatchback that will last me years and years, not a race car that I can show off in. Will 17" wheels add style and a "sport" to a $15 000 vehicle? Yes, I suppose. Fun and handling I'm not so sure about. Even though the Fit has a slightly larger turning circle for the US, it will still be quite agile. 17" low profile tires will erase all hopes of a car that "darts around", so to speak.
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