What's the best vehicle for my needs?

kyfdx

I'd look for a wagon vs. an SUV... Unless you have a real need for AWD.. I'm thinking of how much more relaxing that 130 mile daily commute will be in a longer wheel base wagon vs. a compact SUV..

thegraduate

I had thought that too, but couldn't think of one other than a Passat 2.0, and I wouldn't wish VW reliability on my worst enemy, much less reccommend it to a fellow poster.

stubborn1

Here's a little different take on the situation:

Have you considered a small enclosed trailer for your gear? You could drive a decent mid-sized sedan that gets hwy mileage in the upper 20s and still be able to tow a 1,000lb load on the weekends. If you have a secure place for a trailer, it also saves loading and unloading the gear 1x per outing - you just leave the trailer loaded. You can also paint the trailer up with advertising for the band.

If you have no place to store a trailer, it's probably out of the question.

jchan2

I'd give the Nissan Rogue a try as well, but the 4 cylinder versions of the RAV4 and CR-V are good choices too. Also, if you don't need AWD, skip it, because that will save you some MPGs as well.

jchan2

The TSX pretty much gets as good mileage as entry level luxury cars go..

But if you want better fuel economy, I would give the following cars a try:

Nissan Altima Hybrid is right in your price range with all of those features; the Hybrid model gets about 34 MPG or so, and handles better than the Camry Hybrid, although it will be hard to find one unless you live in the states with CA emissions, which is the only states where the Altima Hybrid is sold.

Toyota Camry Hybrid not as fun to drive as the Altima, but supposedly the Hybrid drivetrain integration is better than in the Altima. It will also be easier to find than an Altima Hybrid in states that do not follow CA emissions.

Toyota Prius not very fun to drive or stylish, but really practical and gas mileage is excellent; it also comes in under budget with all the features you want.

Nissan Altima 2.5SL A bit cheaper than the Hybrid Altima, but also gets around 29 MPG. Comes with all the features you want, too.

musicmanmu

Funny you mention this...the band actually owns a trailer, but it holds all of the band's gear (which is probably in the 2,500-3,000 lb range). Our drummer keeps it at his house, as he's the only one who can safely store it. The gear I carry regularly is smaller, either for solo gigs or for other events.

Thanks for the good idea though!

musicmanmu

What about the Subie Outback? My father has one, and I like it fairly well (although for some reason I'm not a fan of the unframed windows). I am pretty sure it'd fit the gear I'm looking at - just didn't know if I'd put too much of a strain on the drivetrain by hauling gear with a 4 cyl. engine...

jeffyscott

At least some of the "SUVs" he listed are compacts. There are a lot of compact wagons and hatchbacks. In midsize, the would-be wagons are now mostly called "crossovers".

thegraduate

Yeah... he wants AWD though.

Maybe a Pontiac Vibe / Toyota Matrix?

musicmanmu

Thought about those - but didn't they do away with AWD in those cars? Other than that, it goes back to me being afraid of over-aspairating the engine by lots of highway driving and gear carrying. But I don't know that much about cars to begin with...

EDIT:
Okay, just hit Edmunds and saw that the 09 models are back with AWD...but only rated 20/26 MPGs?!?! That's crazy. Did they add a bigger engine or something? If that's the MPG range I'm looking in, the RAV4 V6 would be a much smarter choice, wouldn't it?

kyfdx

I wouldn't worry too much about putting 700-800 lbs. in any of these cars, occasionally... It might make the acceleration a little slower than you like, but it isn't likely to harm the vehicle..

It sounds like 95% of your use will be empty commuting, anyway..

thegraduate

Well, consider that none of the vehicles make peak power before you really get up in the rev range. Remember that 10 years ago, the CR-V weighed around 3,200 lbs with only 126 horses (a weight/pwr ratio of 25.4 lbs/hp). Compare that to today's CR-V with 3500lbs with 166 horses and you have 21 lbs/hp. Load up your car with 500 lbs and you still have only 24lbs per horsepower, meaning your loaded CR-V is still quicker than the old unloaded one.

Now, those old CR-Vs weren't fast, but they had capacity to carry 5 people as well, so it didn't cause too many problems.

kyfdx

I had the old 126 HP model... having a stick-shift made a big difference...

thegraduate

My great aunt had a CR-V EX (1997) with an automatic. Four of us went to Washington D.C. in it from Birmingham, AL. I remember hitting some Appalachain hills and saying "come on little car!" but it did it without failure, even though there was about 800lbs of people in the car. It was surprisingly roomy!

plekto

Toyota also makes some of the world's best 4 cylinder engines. ~160HP is a lot in a car this weight, and it gets fantastic gas mileage with manual. Oh, and it costs less to buy and fix.(plus is less front-heavy and so on).

Of course, without a doubt get the 4WD. Even if you never really use it, you'll not lose out on resale value(2wd Toyotas are painfully hard to sell).

musicmanmu

Thanks for all the great comments, everyone.

So, given that the 4cyl RAV4 gets only marginally better mileage than the V6 RAV4, is there any reason (other than price) for one not to get the V6 over the 4cyl?

thegraduate

Well, real-world mileage as reported by owners here on Edmunds seem to indicate a more drastic difference (i suspect people like to really dig into the power with the big 3.5L).

Still, the Toyota 3.5L is quite an efficient engine considering its power.

151ranch

I have a friend with the same requirements for musical equipment. He just bought a Honda Element. Available with AWD, and loads of storage space. We also have one, and regularly carry 500 lbs in the back, no problem. But I would only get one with the MT, it's just too sluggish with the AT. We get about 23 mpg mixed driving with ours.

deborah13

Hello, I am trying to help my grandmother find a car that suits her needs. She is currently driving a small saturn which she loves. However her knees are getting bad and she is sometimes unable to stand up out of the vehicle. My dodge caravan is a better height for her, but she doesn't want to drive something that large. Can anyone think of a small car that is not low to the ground? Either a small SUV or taller car?
I look forward to hearing your input.

cccompson

A Honda Element might fit the bill.

thegraduate

I was thinking Honda CR-V, Toyota RAV-4, or Nissan Rogue. Also, a hatchback like the Honda Fit sits up a a little higher as well, especially compared to an older compact Saturn, which is pretty much on the ground.

Also, it's a large car, but the new 2008 Ford Taurus and Mercury Sable sit well-off the ground, close to minivan height. My parents are picking their new Taurus up tomorrow, as a matter of fact.

kiawah

Check out the Nissan Versa Hatchback (4cyl) as well. The 6 cyl is a CVT transmission, stay away from that one. Just bought my 86 year old arthritic mother one. Very good price performer. Had a rebate when I bought a couple months ago, not sure what the current status of rebates are. This was before the latest small car high mileage craze.

thegraduate

Check out the Nissan Versa Hatchback (4cyl) as well. The 6 cyl is a CVT transmission, stay away from that one. Just bought my 86 year old arthritic mother one. Very good price performer. Had a rebate when I bought a couple months ago, not sure what the current status of rebates

There is no 6 cylinder Versa, only a 4-cylinder model (1.8L, 122hp). And, the car performs much better with the CVT, as well as getting considerably better mileage versus the 4-speed automatic that comes in the S models (the SL gets the CVT).

jeffyscott

There is a pretty long list of compact "cross-over" vehicles in the Edmunds new car section, many of these may be at approximately minivan height.

The smallest minivan is, I believe, the Mazda5...it's about the size of a Mazda3, except taller. It is the same width and only about 4 inches longer than a Mazda3.

kiawah

Oh you're right, sorry. It's the higher trim model that has the CVT, but it's still a 4 cylinder. Some CVT owners are reporting problems with the CVT, which is why the recommendation to stay away from the fanbelt transmission.

thegraduate

Some CVT owners are reporting problems with the CVT

I've read of few if any problems in Nissan CVT transmissions. Considering that they have CVTs in their entire mainstream car line (save for trucks), I'd say the CVT is very reliable, with no well-known problems that extend widely.

Honda and Toyota have had trouble with geared automatics; you don't see people staying away from those.

which is why the recommendation to stay away from the fanbelt transmission
And, that's hardly a fair comment, so I won't respond to it.

suydam

The CVT is wonderful! It makes a small car have the quiet ride of a much larger vehicle and gets better fuel economy too. If the NIssan Versa had fold-flat rear seats I would have bought one in a heartbeat. When this post first arose, that's the vehicle that first came to my mind.

kyfdx

I have to agree with this..

Mazda 5
Honda CR-V

Both fuel efficient, easy ingress/egress.. neither much bigger than her Saturn..

dtownfb

If your grandma is used t small cars, try the new Corolla or Matrix. Their seating position is higher then the Saturn she is driving. Plus she'll still have tha small car that she is used to driving.

jchan2

I would also recommend the Nissan Rogue as well as perhaps the Toyota Venza, if you're willing to wait...

maxlee2

I'm looking to lease a car - just need it to drive about 10 miles a day (round trip) to work and back. Does anyone know what kind of car would be the cheapest? I am really not picky - just looking to spend as little as possible. Thinking maybe i would need a 24 month lease. I might also be interested in purchasing something like a certified pre-owned - any suggestions on what type of car I could get a good deal on?

thegraduate

If you want cheapest as possible, go pre-owned (1 or 2 year old) American or Korean. What size of car do you need? If you need simple, basic transport in a sedan, the late-model Taurus (that was last made in 2006) would be a VERY inexpensive option, with the Tauruses around here all going for around $10,000. These aren't bad cars, they just were no longer class-competitive in terms of power, style, or fuel economy. Very safe, fairly comfortable, and room for you and a few friends.

Knowing a little more about your situation would help us make suggestions.

jchan2

If you can get your hands on one, I'd recommend buying a brand new Mini Cooper, driving it for 2 years, and then reselling it. The resale value is so high on Mini Coopers and Honda Fits that after 2 years of driving, they hardly depreciate.

So I'd look into getting a Cooper or a Fit, but both seem to be in extremely short supply (hence the high resale values) and this strategy only works if you can pay MSRP or less for the car; once you're over MSRP, it's not a good strategy.

Other good suggestions I'd suggest would be the 2006 Taurus the person before me recommended, as well as a used 2006-2007 Hyundai Sonata. I'd also look into a Buick LaCrosse, as well.

kyfdx

The Subaru Legacy SE model is leasing out for around $250-$260/mo. for 24 months.... Nothing due at signing...

marketkite

Is there such a thing as a "cool" family car...ie, decent storage and seats at least 5 comfortably? mpg is also a concern, so maybe a larger 4 cylinder?

Any parents out there with advice?

qbrozen

A "cool" car that seats 5 and has a 4-cyl?

Nope. Can't think of any, personally.
Of course, cool is quite subjective. For me, cool always has to involve some sportiness. And that ain't gonna happen with an N/A 4-cyl and seating for 5 (meaning it is big and heavy).

And what do you mean by storage? As in a cargo area? Or is a trunk enough?

What kind of mileage?

A 328i gets pretty good mileage.

Ummm... well, for "cool" looks, I think the new Matrix looks pretty good. Its a 4-cyl. Just lacking in performance. And I'm not sure how "comfortable" 3 in the back would be.

marketkite

you're right, cool is pretty subjective, and I figured it was a tall order but thought I'd throw it out there anyway.

re: storage, I mostly meant a sizable enough trunk for groceries, the occasionally large item, etc. Which is mostly why I'm leaning towards a hatchback over a sedan, and the Matrix is on my shortlist...

but there's that performance issue, too, which you mention. The Matrix's "driver satisfaction" scores aren't the greatest -- look it up on a site like carfun footprint and you'll see what I mean...maybe because of the performance? I don't know how it translates into real world usage, if anyone is willing to explain it, but for example it seems like even the Yaris does better in those terms?

Then there's the scion xb, which is just about the antithesis of "cool" (to me)

Then there's sedans, but those don't have the trunk space. Hmmm.

qbrozen

Problem I think you'll keep running into is the mileage. I mean, there's always a mazdaspeed3, but you're looking at like 23-24mpg in mixed driving. A regular Mazda3 is still fun, however. Just not as fun. And you could see 28mpg. So maybe put that under consideration. It is pretty small, though.

Maybe a leftover or slightly used Forester XT or Legacy wagon turbo. But, again, mileage ain't that great.

jchan2

What about a 4 cylinder Nissan Altima? Granted, it own't be anywhere near as fun as a 3-Series, but fuel economy is better, the price is lower, and the driving experience isn't as bad as say, a Camry.

Have you looked into a CPO-ed 5-Series? Or perhaps a 3-Series? the 328i actually gets pretty decent fuel economy numbers at 19/28.

qbrozen

Ya need to provide a pricerange so we can help a bit more.

You've got 2 votes for the 328 so far.
And that can be had as a wagon.

Saw another vehicle today that I think is kind sorta cool, and it reminded me I didn't mention it before. The Nissan Rogue. Supposedly gets real good mileage and is rather spirited for its class. However, it would cost just as much as a CPO 328.

marketkite

That's true, I never did mention a price.... The nissan rogue is pretty nice, and more or less at the top of the dollar range (or maybe a little over, depending), so that's not a bad suggestion.

What about a "hybrid" SUV? Or is that just a oxymoron?

qbrozen

Well, a hybrid Escape or VUE might fit your space and fuel requirements. But they are pretty much the bottom of the "cool" scale, are they not?

OK. So I just took a quick look. First of all, BMW is offering 1.9% APR and they will pick up the tab on the first 2 payments for any '05 or '06 CPO X3s. Probably not the fuel economy you are thinking, but the financial help otherwise might be appealing and offset that fuel cost. (?)
I don't know exactly where in Cali you live, but I did a search within 100 miles of 90210 and see several '05s for between $20k-$22k.

marketkite

LOL, the bottom of the cool scale, indeed...to be honest I haven't really looked into the hybrid SUV option, just kinda stumbled upon that suggestion this am.

Thanks for all the help, guys. 90210 is making a comeback, I see

qbrozen

yeah, its still the only CA zip code I can remember. ;P

Another one popped up when I was just out running errands. Again, don't know why I didn't think of this before, especially since I helped my sister buy one last year and she still loves it. The Dodge Caliber. It is a bit polarizing, though, so "cool" is absolutely subjective on this one.

slegacy93

I agree with the other posts that you're going to have trouble accommodating all of those needs in one vehicle.

I think it may be worth your while to take a look at the Mazda5. We recently got one due to our growing family and I love it.

Even though it has sliding doors (which are very convenient, by the way), I still think of it as a cool car, as it drives like a car, not a minivan or SUV. It gets great gas mileage, and offers a manual transmission, if you like to shift. It is also a heck of a value, costing as much or even less than many comparably equipped compact cars.

jchan2

I will second the X3; although supposedly the ride up until 2006 was really harsh, but a test drive will tell you if the ride is acceptable. I know for 2004 a lot of the articles on the X3 said the ride was almost unbearable, especially if you ordered up the sport package.

plekto

Leases are actually about the worst thing you can do short term.

You have two options - buy something old with no depreciation left in it, or buy something that doesn't depreciate at all.(niche car)

On the first list would be older classics like a BMW 2002. In fact, it might go *up* a bit. The trick is to find economical and good vehicles that are modern, collectible, and inexpensive to maintain - yet also get good mpg. An old Mercedes 4 cylinder diesel also works as well - due to their popularity right now. An old Volvo also might work. Cute/retro, safe, and repairs are easy. An old Toyota 4x4 or Wrangler also should be on this list, because of the off-roading crowd who desire them.

Insurance, tax, and registration will be much less than with a new car. My 87 4Runner costs me about $100 a month in repairs, but registration was a whopping $56 as well. And it gets 19-20mpg. 4 cylinder plus manual is great.

On the second choice, new, you have three cars.
1: VW TDI. These are in uber-high demand right now and retain their value. Maybe $1-2K a year depreciation. (note this is STILL way more than a used classic will likely cost you in repairs)

2: Mini. Base model, manual, nothing on it except for maybe handling bits. This costs less and depreciates less as well since it is desirable to the DIY modifier crowd - they want a stock Mini that hasn't been blinged out. Also, accessories are most of the initial depreciation in a car, and Mini is no exception. Without any of this, the depreciation is very low.

3: Smart. This is high demand right now - almost cult status. Buy it and sell it in two years for nearly what you paid.

Fuel economy is going to be moot. Expect 20-30mpg in the best case as most engines take at least 5-10 miles to properly warm up and obtain their best mileage. So you'll be getting about 10-15mpg the first few minutes and then the rated just about when you get to work. It's basically a line like a HP graph - MPG is terrible the first minute and gets better until about ten minutes in it hits a plateau and stays there. So don't worship MPG if you're only driving 200-300 miles a month to work and back. For most cars, that's a tank of gas per month. Maybe $20 difference between a typical car and a super high mpg one...

brian60

Hey there everyone,

I'm looking for advice on which family sedan you would purchase and why, given the following criteria:

* reliable/Japanese
* low depreciation
* <$10,000
* good highway cruiser
* 25+mpg on the highway

I've been thinking that an early 2000s Honda Accord or Nissan Maxima might fit the bill nicely, but was wondering if there were any gems out that I might be missing.

Thanks!

Brian.

kiawah

Well if you write those requirements tight enough, you'll limit some other vehicles you will probably should take a look at.

Anyhow, add Toyota Camry to your list above with those requ'ts.

plekto

One vehicle should be on your list that's not Japanese. The Buick LaCrosse.

Buick has been scoring in the top few for car makers in the last couple of years. The cars also depreciate like a rock, so a 2007 base model can be had for about $10-12K.

They get 28-30mpg highway in real world driving(about 24-25mpg city/highway combined), seat 6(with the bench seat option - highly recommended) and drive great as a highway cruiser. Plus, the engine and transmission combination is bulletproof. Better interior layout and amenities as well than a Maxima or Accord from 2000..

Plus, in 2007, GM started offering their 5yr/100K drive train warranty. That's really quite nice. The 2006 models are the same, just with 4/50K warranty. This is basically an evolution model based upon the LeSabre, which is a good car as well.

Links:
Buick reliability:
http://editorial.autos.msn.com/article.aspx?cp-documentid=435706
Note how only the following non european/non japanese cars made that list:
Buick LaCrosse
Lincoln Continental
Lincoln Town Car
The Vibe is really a reworked Matrix, so it's not "domestic"

That's a VERY short recommended list. But Buick did tie Lexus in quality in 2007:
http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2007130
It's a real sleeper that isn't on most radars.

http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/2007-Buick-LaCrosse/
Note the reliability. 10?. It's a bit bland, but it's dirt cheap and you can get a 2-3 year old car instead of a 7-8 year old one. As the old saying goes, GM makes the best used cars... :P

A typical car:
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=p&car_id=253209199

2006 models are $10K all over town now. My mother's LeSabre is nearly 10 years old and has had no problems other than a couple of modules and an engine mount. Not bad for 80K miles(so far).