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  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,331
    "Exactly my opinion."

    Glad you agree with me on the 3 Series. They have always been BMW's best-performing vehicles.

    The 545i has a lot of power and for its size nothing handles better. The 335i, however, will run rings around the 545i and I look forward to leasing it or a 335d if it becomes available by next summer.

    I was in Calgary for a few days and I thought it was a beautiful, clean, youthful city. Loved the indoor olympic-training facility with its gorgeous hockey rink.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Maybe you should wait for the LX570.

    LOL.

    Well.... Will it finally have fold-flat third-row seats? Or is that still beyond Lexus engineer's pursuit of perfection? :)

    TagMan
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    No automatic or fold flat seats for this baby. Part of the character and charm...Plus it weeds out those not strong enough or smart enough to handle that third row...and keeps the average IQ of buyers way above average!! :)

    I had a similar surprise this week. Our LX is in the shop for some minor paint repair and our loaner is a "new" 2006 GS300 AWD. I guess they just kept it as a loaner as it has never been titled.

    My wife loves the thing, and really, it is not that bad a car. Seems a little short on head room but it is quiet and comfortable, has a good steering feel, and is rock solid. I do not like the brake feel (mushy,then grabs) or the fact that it seems to hesitate just a little when you get on it.

    With a little encouragement from me one like it could be in our garage. Well, we only have 2 cars and we do have a 3 car garage. :shades:

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    What is a controlled auto ignition (CAI). Tried google it, the only explanation I am getting is: a combustion process similar to that of a diesel.

    I tried to google, yahoo and about.com your question with no success. I am no engineer but all I know it that this spark ignition process is the one single novelty (direct fuel injection and turbocharging are not exactly novel) that makes the gasoline powered Diesotto get diesel-like fuel efficiency.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Hondas and BMWs we agree upon.

    But I must say Honda is outsizing itself out of the mid-level sized market with its new Accord. Now you got a Civic and a oversized Accord--there's too much of a huge gap between these two vehicles.

    Also did you notice the pricing. The base i4Accord will sell for $2K more than the i4 Camry MSRP. For the non-luxury lounge customer is it worth that much? IMO I think Honda is outsizing and overpricing the Accord out of its market.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    However as someone mentioned, people do buy the FX 35/45. On that note is it correct that Infiniti has done nothing with that model for about 5 years?

    The FX was introduced for '03, and received a refresh for '06. The exterior updates were so minimal that its nearly impossible to tell the new one apart from the old one, but the interior is much improved. A new FX will probably appear as an '09. In the "world's ugliest" competition, in my opinion both the Cayenne and the X6 have a big leg up on the FX.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Also did you notice the pricing. The base i4Accord will sell for $2K more than the i4 Camry MSRP. For the non-luxury lounge customer is it worth that much? IMO I think Honda is outsizing and overpricing itself out of the market.

    Certainly wouldn't be the first time Honda has priced it self out of the market, and then had to backpedal. They did it with the Ridgleline, and Acura went way overboard with the RL. The idea of paying $50K for that is just laughable.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    My wife loves the thing, and really, it is not that bad a car. Seems a little short on head room but it is quiet and comfortable, has a good steering feel, and is rock solid. I do not like the brake feel (mushy,then grabs) or the fact that it seems to hesitate just a little when you get on it.

    Oh but the M35x is soooo much better. If you simply must have a GS, get the 350. The short lived 245hp 3.0L was for the most part gutless. You may also want to check out the S80, very similar driving experience to the GS, but quicker with the V8 and more comfortable.
  • sysweisyswei Member Posts: 1,804
    Actually, the 3rd row is going to be (optionally) electrically operated. The problem is that I think this will make them at least semi-permanent. (In the LX470 they are manual but the seats can be removed entirely if needed). The second row in the 570 will have a power sliding feature (but I don't know whether folding it out of the way to allow 3rd-row access will be manual or power).

    BTW the reason that they aren't fold-into the floor is that Lexus wants to keep true off-road capability, which limits the available space to do something like that.

    I've had an LX470 since 2000 and no one has ever complained about being queasy because of the ride in the second row. A few kids though have complained about the ride in the 3rd row.

    BTW tagman, is the Q7 a possibility?
  • topspin628topspin628 Member Posts: 373
    So continuing my decision process, I took another look at the S550 (another poster earlier suggested that this would be the perfect car for me). It's beautiful and has a great presence.
    The interior quality is first rate and the car feels very substantial. As for the drive, it was very smooth and quiet but it's a car that I'd rather be driven in than drive. It felt a bit heavy to me and wasn't fun to drive. It's one serious machine and I think they did a great job but it's not for me. I prefer the way the Jag XJ handled and drove.
    It felt a bit sportier and was much lighter. The MB was like driving a limo. I also took a long spin in the LS 460. They did a great job on the body and I think everything is a half notch up from my LS 430 but they are still quite similar. Interesting that the salesman kept stressing that the "entire car is different" and that "nothing's the same as the last model." I got the idea that this was drilled into him as part of the speech. Maybe too many people feel that they are similar to the last model and therefore balk at paying 30% more (at least that's what the lease deal works out as). I mean, the last model is the epitome of smooth and quiet. How much smoother and quieter can it be? They aren't going for road feel. I would say that the brakes felt more responsive, the car felt a bit quicker, the ML stereo was a bit more powerful and the seats were more comfortable. And I like the new body style. But it's still evolution not revolution. They really over sold it when the marketing dept said that this intro would be as important as the first introduction of the LS400. They would be better off under-promising and over-delivering.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    They really over sold it when the marketing dept said that this intro would be as important as the first introduction of the LS400. They would be better off under-promising and over-delivering.

    They did the same thing with the "5 killing" GS. Lexus has been over-hyping a lot lately. Infiniti never even mentioned the 5 series, they let the M speak for itself.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    for the drive, it was very smooth and quiet but it's a car that I'd rather be driven in than drive. It felt a bit heavy to me and wasn't fun to drive. It's one serious machine and I think they did a great job but it's not for me.

    How much smoother and quieter can it be?

    Bigger is not always better. And apparently based on your above description BIG is not what you want. Ride and luxury is what defines these big cars. If you want "road feel" than definitely you are looking at the wrong place.

    A smaller vehicle is what makes a car more agile and fun to drive. Choose the sport option for a BMW 5 series and if thats too humble for you than a BMW M5 or a Audi RS6.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Certainly wouldn't be the first time Honda has priced it self out of the market, and then had to backpedal. They did it with the Ridgleline, and Acura went way overboard with the RL. The idea of paying $50K for that is just laughable.

    What about the overpriced hybrid Accord? The reasonably priced hybrid Camry made mincemeat out of that model. Or remember the renowned CRX that was one hot model among sport minded young people? What did they replace that with? A Del Sol :sick:

    But the above is nothing compared to the Accord.

    The Accord is Honda's most important model in this continent. Overpricing and oversizing their most successful model is far more incomprehensible than overpricing lower volume models like an RL, hybrid Accord or the Ridgeline.

    What on earth is Honda thinking?
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    What about the overpriced hybrid Accord? The reasonably priced hybrid Camry made mincemeat out of that model.

    They aren't exactly the same thing. The HAH was supposed to be like the GS450h, a "performance hybrid" at the top of the range. Unsurprisingly, buyers didn't gel with the idea of paying near TL money for a car a few 10ths faster to 60 than the standard V6 that got about two more mpg. Much like the GS450h, it just made no sense.

    The new Accord is a bit of a question mark. I'm not sure how it will do in the market. Being able to compete with the Sonata\Azera, Altima\Maxima, and Camry\Avalon all at the same time could end up working very well for them, even before the diesel Accord shows.
  • bristol2bristol2 Member Posts: 736
    The Accord is Honda's most important model in this continent. Overpricing and oversizing their most successful model is far more incomprehensible than overpricing lower volume models like an RL, hybrid Accord or the Ridgeline.

    I can't comment on the comparison to the Camry 4-banger but Honda did cut out the bottom of the line 'VP' from the new line up but the prices are only a couple hundred above the last iteration's equivalent model.

    If they over-charged, they will certainly pay in that segment of the market.
  • bristol2bristol2 Member Posts: 736
    Barcelona, London, Berlin with an honourable mention for NY and SF.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    New rendering of the Jaguar XF Cabrio?
    IMO this does not look too impressive.

    image
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    A BMW X5? Nope in fact it is a Shuanghuan CEO SUV.

    image

    BMW AG was already upset over what it says is a Chinese copy of its top-selling X5, but sharing headlines with its rival at Germany's premiere auto show has the Munich-based automaker feeling downright uncomfortable.

    BMW filed suit this week against Chinese car maker Shuanghuan Automobile to prohibit it from selling its new model — dubbed the CEO, a sport utility the German company claims too closely models the X5.

    Undaunted, the Chinese company's European importer brought the SUV to the Frankfurt auto show.

    "China is here, and we are here at the fair," said Karl Schloessl, chief executive of China Automobile, which plans to import and sell the car in Europe. He said the car was designed independently.

    "We do not deny. We do not admit," he told AP Television News. "One gets inspiration from every SUV, no matter whether it is Japanese, Chinese, German or French. When you look at a car today, no matter from which perspective, you will always discover similarities, even at the wheels."

    Shuanghuan maintains that the CEO bears no resemblance to the X5, either in style or price.

    The X5's starting price in Europe is €59,000 (US$81,560), while the CEO's base model will sell for €25,900 (US$35,800).

    "The issue directly concerning BMW is that there is a Chinese carmaker trying to copy the side and rear view of the previous generation of our X5 model," BMW spokesman Wieland Bruch said, adding that while a close inspection would reveal any differences, a first impression would not.

    link title
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    Let's try this again...

    Not exactly fold-flat but Lexus engineers had figured out a way around it. Like houdini said, don't forget this is a fully capable off-roading SUV unlike many other CUVs these days.

    image

    image

    image

    image

    image
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    That's a very un-Lexus-like shifter console. Very busy looking.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    Besides the shifter I spotted 2 buttons and 4 flip knobs. Given that this is a truly off-roading SUV that placement is not too bad IMO. Here are the other Lexus shifter consoles:

    LS:
    image

    GS:
    image

    ES:
    image

    IS:
    image

    SC:
    image

    GX:
    image

    Current LX:
    image

    RX:
    image
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Thanks for reposting. :)
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    BTW tagman, is the Q7 a possibility?

    I suppose so, but I have to be honest, since I'm still hoping for keeping the Acura MDX and getting the BMW 335i, I'm not going to talk about the Q7, unless she brings it up.

    TagMan
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    There are hardly any Audi R8s on the roads today and already there are quite a few accidents reported in Western Europe. The link below shows a R8 accident in Moscow.

    Apparently the R8 is far too good for these type of drivers. A driver education class or a tamed ego would be very helpful before driving the R8.

    link title
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    suppose so, but I have to be honest, since I'm still hoping for keeping the Acura MDX and getting the BMW 335i

    The Tagman Fleet:

    Porsche Carrera
    BMW 335i
    VW GTI
    Acura MDX.

    Sounds perfect to me. ;)
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Like houdini said, don't forget this is a fully capable off-roading SUV unlike many other CUVs these days

    Perhaps, but how many owners are really going to use the LX's off-road abilities? 1%? Porsche is dumping all of the Cayenne's off-road abilities on the next one because nobody actually wanted that. How much weight could the LX drop, and how much could fuel economy improve if instead of just using the 4Runner and TLC again, Lexus actually built their own full-sizer?
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    The 4Runner is a real off-roading SUV either. Lexus does have its own version of the 4Runner, it's called GX470.

    Cayenne from the very beginning was a Crossover isn't it? Just like the X5 and MDX. Range Rover is still a real off-roading SUV last time I checked so I say kudos to Lexus by offering a real competitor.

    The next RX will be based on the new Highlander, it'll have third-row seating and being a crossover.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    The Tagman Fleet:

    Porsche Carrera
    BMW 335i
    VW GTI
    Acura MDX.

    Sounds perfect to me.


    Gosh, when I took a look at the way you listed that, it sent a chill up my spine. I'll say a little prayer that it turns out that way... sounds perfect to me, too. Thanks!

    TagMan
  • anthonypanthonyp Member Posts: 1,860
    Hi Dewey

    That series of pictures, looks like it was a rainy day, and the tire tread looked a little bald.....I was very sorry about your ticket, and as I drove the two hundred fifty miles yesterday, I thought frequently of your ticket and slowed down numerous times---Man they have crushed the spirit out of us Americans---I appreciate you sharing a poor part of your life, and by doing so you may have saved me getting one--as I have gotten too lax...Maybe you can get it reduced to a two pointer--then no insurance hit later...Tony
  • topspin628topspin628 Member Posts: 373
    I'm trying to get some real world prices on both the Jag XJ and the BMW 7 but the Edmunds "What others are paying" seems inaccurate. They show the 07 Jag XJ8 as a $700 discount and I've already been offered 13K. Where can one get a true sense of the market. (You guys in the Luxury Lounge see to be the most on the ball car guys around, so I have no worries that you'll steer me, no pun intended, to the right place).
    Thanks
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    What happened to the HPX concept?

    It was as big, or bigger, than an Caddy SRX, and would fill the bill as a full-sized CUV, similar to the Mercedes GL.

    I would have it replace the GX, and works as a larger RX. Then use the platform for this ACE concept Toyota wants to implement above the Highlander.

    DrFill
  • sysweisyswei Member Posts: 1,804
    What happened to the HPX concept?

    Maybe 6-12 months ago Automotive News said it would be coming in Spring 2008, but there have been no rumors more recent than that. It is possible that Automotive News was wrong or that Lexus changed plans.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    Well, hopefully, I won't be buying anything for a while but I do like the GS300. You couldn't give me a Volvo and the M35 has always reminded me of the original Lincoln LS for some reason.

    I have to disagree about the GS300 3.OL being gutless. For everyday normal driving it certainly seemed to have enough power. I am not into drag racing, etc. and, in general, I think the HP wars have passed beyond ridiculous.

    A lot of people make fun of SUV buyers who never take their SUV off road. IMO huge engines in small cars are even worse...they never get used for anything but bragging rights.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Tony,

    Thanks. But please erase my ticket experience from your mind since it robs all enjoyment out of driving. As long as you dont have recorded traffic violations then do enjoy the great thrills of driving your Audi A8
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
  • 2001gs4302001gs430 Member Posts: 767
    Yesterday I decided to test drive a 328i to see if it could be a candidate for my vehicle fleet. It has 6-sp auto and premium package for option. It was a short 10 minutes drive but I was able to tell that it drove nicer than the G35X and C280 I tested a couple of months ago. I like the smooth i6 engine and the nimbleness feel of a smaller vehicle. To my surprise, it looks like the backseat space can handle the occasional baby carseat duty too. The interior is not as nice as any Lexus or G35X, but better than the C280 IMO. Also, it feels as if the G offers more value for the price.
    In term of MSRP, the 328i is the most expensive car of the bunch. However, the sales rep blew me away with BMW's rental figures; for a 39 mths lease, the residual is set at almost 66% of MSRP, so for the deal I would be paying for roughly 33% of the car's MSRP at 3.9% lease rate. I don't know how many cars in this class would hold this residual in the real world, but this certainly made it an very attractive deal. Also, he was willing to knock about 2K off the miscellaneous up front fees and taxes.
    So it looks like I am giving the BMW rental a try for the next 3 years. My questions for the the posters here are:
    - Should I pay another $200/mth more to rent the 335i, considering this would be my daily driver and I don't like the hassle of swapping seasonal tires.
    - Are there any specific negatives on the 3 series that I am not aware of, aside from the usual "not as reliable as Lexus" reputation.
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    If that were indeed true, and since this probably wouldn't be replacing an existing model, then Lexus would offer previews of it under Future Vehicles, or something to that effect. I haven't gone to the site recently.

    They can also introduce it, and phase out the GX after another couple of years. :surprise:

    The scent's gone cold on my end. :(

    DrFill
  • sysweisyswei Member Posts: 1,804
    Since there have been no recent rumors, my guess is that we won't see anything until at least fall 2008.

    My personal preference would be for a crossover larger than that, maybe based on the Sienna.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    Ft. Worth, Memphis, Kansas City, Oklahoma City, Little Rock...do I see a pattern there? :)

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    To answer your question...

    Should I pay another $200/mth more to rent the 335i, considering this would be my daily driver and I don't like the hassle of swapping seasonal tires.

    The questions you should ask yourself are do you value straight line acceleration much and do you think you need a car that goes from 0 to 60 in 5 seconds? If both answers are no then the extra $200/month is not worth it for you. Both the 335i and 328i will handle the same and keep in mind the 328i is a lighter car. IMO I think 230HP is plenty for a daily driver unless you are a HP nut like me.

    Are there any specific negatives on the 3 series that I am not aware of, aside from the usual "not as reliable as Lexus" reputation.

    No, as matter of fact I think overall the 3-series is pretty reliable. You might run into more electrical problems with a 3-series than say an IS350/250 but that's about it.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    Hey Doc,

    The HPX is coming I think but not in a form of full-size CUV. The HPX is a 5-seater corssover so it will become Lexus' compact CUV to compete with X3, MDX and EX. The RX will then get a third-row seat and move upmarket a little to become a legit luxury midsize CUV.

    I dont' know what Lexus have in mind for the GX. Personally I would just drop it. 3 SUVs/CUVs in the lineup is plenty IMO.
  • 2001gs4302001gs430 Member Posts: 767
    Yes I agree that 300hp for a daily driver is a luxury. I would definitely miss being able to do 0-60 in less than 6 seconds. ;)
    OTOH, I would probably save on gas, insurance, and tire wears with only 230hp on tap. Hopefully I will get one with no electrical gremlins... Keeping my fingers crossed,my first German car ever. :surprise:
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    If you do not plan to keep the car out of its warranty period then I think you have nothing to worry about. The worst out of the worst is that you'll get to know your local BMW dealership very well. If the service department of the BMW dealership is as nice as my Lexus' then be honest I really don't mind to spend "a little" more time there as I have to.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,331
    I agree with you on the Accord. The trend should be smaller and more fuel efficient, not getting longer like my grand daddy's old Buick.

    There is a consensus that the V6 is disappointingly underpowered, probably due to Honda's new engine employing different numbers of cylinders for different situations.

    As for me, a 3 Series diesel is at the top of my list for August to year end 2008. Achieving 40 mpg will save me at least $800 in fuel per year. Currently I get 20-21 mpg with the 545i.
  • 2001gs4302001gs430 Member Posts: 767
    No, I am not planning to keep this daily driver after the lease, but since this cheap lease is an ideal situation to take advantage of tax business write-off I am going to give BMW a try.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    The time to buy an '07 is at the point in time when the '08s are being released. Jaguar AND the dealer with both collectively offer you huge amounts of money to get ride of the '07s. If you've already got a $13K discount on a new '07, you are already approaching a decent situation. Don't be surprised if it can get even better.

    Remember what Lexusguy and I have tried to tell you about the used XJs. They are your very best buy, no doubt about it. But if you want to go new, as I did, make sure you get a massive discount, and be prepared to eat the rest of the depreciation yourself... because you will.

    Lastly, if you are comparing new car prices between several dealers... you will educate yourself quickly. Get the bottom line from each, and one of them will be the lowest, of course. That will tell you approximately what you can get the car for... in real life... as opposed to Edmunds or anyone else's website.

    TagMan
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    One of your better posts. :) I am in complete agreement!

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    If they have an X3 competitor (which I'm against, unless the RX gets much bigger), it wouldn't be based off the borderline-full sized HPX.

    Lexus will need to bridge the gap from $50k (RX) to $70k (LX).

    The GX is a good one, but it's time has passed. :(

    DrFill
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    Lexus will need to bridge the gap from $50k (RX) to $70k (LX).

    Not really.

    LX is the ubber luxury SUV which has very few competitors. The only one I can come up is the Range Rover and MB GL-class. The future Lexus compact CUV and the bigger RX will be the volume seller for Lexus.

    IMO, RX is going to replace the current GX with the new compact CUV takes over what the first gen RX used to be. Of course, that's given if Lexus is going to drop the GX.
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    The X5/6 play in the $50-70k range.

    Escalade and Benz GL. Infiniti FX (when it's redesigned). Navigator.

    Unless they make the RX a $60k vehicle, loaded. I don't see that, but it's possible.

    The RX is a franchise, and I wouldn't really mess with it too much. The most it should cost is low $50's, loaded.

    I'd get a GL over the new LX. The RX needs a big CUV brother. I can't get around that fact. It should've happened with the HPX five years ago! Then the GL would be chasing Lexus, not the other way around. :sick:

    It's not a major fax-paus, but they really should've capitalized on the RX by making a "Grand RX", or something along those lines. They'd have people lining up for a better RX!

    Worked for Jeep. :blush:

    I thought Lexus was trying to make more expensive vehicles anyway? I thought that was the new initiative.

    DrFill
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