By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
No BMWCCA rebate for BMW trios or quartets. The guy hung up on me. I think he thought I was joking. :surprise:
That would be nice-3 or 4 posters driving the same twin-turbo.
:shades: :shades: :shades: ... :shades:
TagMan
We could establish quite a powerful voting block on Edmunds.
Anti-trust laws??
Probably not too much value. Now if it were a Grand National or T-Type, that would be a different story.
That's is true not only for Barcelona but for a lot of Spanish cities as Madrid, Seville, and others. Also it is true that usually one can walk safely along most of their streets. I wish this will continue in the future. It is real nice. :shades:
Jose
Should any other of the posters want to receive this list, I am ready to send it to him/her the same way. Or if Pat allows to post it here by pieces, sure I can do this too.
Jose
OK make that a 3 Series Quintet.
The description below sounds very complex. I would dread to own this car out of warranty.
BMW ActiveHybrid for the first time combines the combustion engine and two high-performance electric motors to allow use of the greater efficiency of hybrid technology over a much larger speed range than with a conventional hybrid vehicle. A further unique point is the driving experience provided
by BMW ActiveHybrid reflecting the specific features and characteristics of electric drive together with the proven features of a combustion engine from BMW.
Interacting with the two-mode active transmission, the concept, through electrical support, offers two operating modes, one for setting off and driving at low speeds, one for higher speeds. This ensures optimum use of the torque generated as a function of driving conditions.
link title
Most of the gains came from hybrid cars like the Toyota Prius and Toyota Camry Hybrid, while registrations of the Lexus RX 400h and Toyota Highlander Hybrid declined.
In the first seven months of 2007, registration of new hybrid vehicles has shot up 49% nationwide from the same time frame last year. According to R.L. Polk & Co., the Midwest saw the largest gain, at 56.9%, while California remains the state with the most registrations.
link title
Maybe a TT Cabrio with DSG? The Porsche Tiptronic is embarrassingly bad.
By contrast, the IS is much more competitive in its class and is a much better overall candidate for the "F" treatment. Even if the IS-F is successful in the marketplace (which I am much more optimistic about), this will not directly correlate to success for the GS-F.
Lexus really needs to offer a true Sport package for the GS, just like you can already get on the IS,
before they even entertain marketing and production plans for the GS-F. I HOPE that I am wrong, but I did not see any performance options even available on the 2007 GS 350 from the factory other than upgraded wheels and tires; the active stabilizer suspension system is available on the GS 430.
link title
I am certainly not at all familiar with the GS-F, but I would not be too optimistic of its success even on the updated platform if Lexus remains conservative and tunes the vehicle similarly to the current GS; Lexus is not known to be particularly adventurous in product design and development.
I still like the GS quite a bit and it will never be "completely" off the list. However, as a happy owner of a second-generation GS, I cannot hide my disappointment in the relatively meager efforts Lexus has made in updating the vehicle in comparison to what the competition has done to update their midsize luxury performance sedans; my expectations rose quite a bit after the very long production run of the second-generation GS.
It's hard to say what they will do with this GS, as the first generation's run was very short, but then they let the 2nd gen sit on the market and did next to nothing with it. Lexus also doesn't seem to care much about the SC, as the SC400 sat on the market even longer than the GS, and the current SC430 has also been on the market a very long time with almost no changes and yet won't be replaced until the '09 MY at the earliest.
I would guess that with a brand new E-class not too far away and then a new 5 to follow after that, Lexus will replace the GS by 2012. If that's the case, I wouldn't expect a GS-F before 2014.
Yeah, true, as I remember it was bad when I tested it, but two things...
One... she wouldn't care or notice anyway.
Two... I recall something about them changing/improving it soon. Do you recall something to that effect?
TagMan
Two... I recall something about them changing/improving it soon. Do you recall something to that effect?
Maybe she would. My wife is not what I would call a "car gal", but she thought the Maserati Coupe Cambiocorsa was a blast to drive, and Audi's gearbox is far better than Maserati's. Compared to that the Porsche tip is dull as dishwater. I know they are working on their own DSG, but I don't recall any changes being made to the old autobox.
Maybe I'll take the 335i for a test drive today.
OTOH they've done an excellent job with the IS just like you've said.
Speaking of long running Lexus models, I believe the current RX is one that continues to do very well right into its last model year.
both the 328i and 335i are great cars. You cant go wrong whichever car you choose. You are right the 230hp on the 328i is more than a enough for a daily driver. But than again the BMW 335 is the much more satisfying pick, but just look out for those vigilant traffic patrol cops in our Toronto neighborhoods.
Good luck and please let us know how your test drive went.
A Audi TT with DSG?
A BMW 135i M Sport?
Beyond the above suggestions I guess it all boils down to what your wife likes best. I've tried swaying certain family members on the virtues of certain cars and such endeavors ended up being quite pointless since each person has their own unique taste for cars.
Well that is certainly not the case today!
Buy that $220,000 Vuitton Tourbillon watch and the company will incorporate your zodiac sign on it.
Your very own horoscope sign on a $200K watch---Imagine that?
Coincdentally I knew a el cheapo dollar store that used to sell such tacky watches with horoscope signs on them. The only difference was that they sold for about $200K less.
At the Plaza Athénée in Paris, owned by the Sultan of Brunei: The bar, revamped to look like an ice cube, complete with video image of a crackling fireplace and a carpet woven from a pixelated close-up of Madonna's face.
The pixelated face of the most banal pop singer being exhibited in one of the most exclusive hotels worldwide?
Yeeech! :sick:
Is the sky the limit? Hennessy is testing to find out. The spirits company is selling a limited edition of 100 bottles of cognac for $200,000 a bottle. It's a blend of the best eaux de vie in the house, but a big part of the attraction - and price - comes from the packaging: a case surmounted by Venetian-glass pearls and fashioned by artisans who usually make stained glass for cathedral windows. "
Hennessy is producing liquor whose packaging is far more important than the liquor itself. Talk about fluff over substance?
link title
If you are going to do that might as well get ready to pay the $8K premium. To me there is no going back once you experienced the 335i.
I did the same when I was car shopping about 1.5 years ago. I had my mind set on the Lexus IS but wasn't sure to get the 250 or 350. I test drove the IS350 first, then the IS250. Although 204HP is more than enough for a compact sedan and daily driver but I just had to follow my heart to get the IS350...
As for the current GS, given that it's first model year is 2006 and the 2008 models are getting a mid-cycle facelift I think it's safe to say that the current gen GS won't stay on the market for longer than 6 years. I expected by late 2011 the latest we'll see a new GS hit the showroom as 2012 model.
The new IS should debut around that same time as well.
Audi TT - Understated flashy, mild exciting and styling.
BMW 135i M Sport - Performance all the way.
Porsche Cayman with Tiptronic - The ultra girlie car :P
I tested the 7 today and it just didn't give me the "grin" factor of the 5 (as you all know, the "grin" factor is the most scientifically accurate way to choose a car
So here's my questions (calling Shipo, BMW guru).
I am leaning toward the 535xi. I will load it up with many options that I like: Sport, HUD, Nav, Logic 7 (by the way the logic 7 sounded better in the 5 than the 7, go figure),
If I went for the 535i then the sport package would include the lower profile tires and roll stabilization. I could also get the cool sport paddles. I have already done the winter tire change routine on my 330i and it works great but I don't really want the hassle.
Do you know if the sp on the 550i would ride the same as the one on the 535i? I tested only the 550 and it seemed fine. My 330i was a bit rough with the sp and I did crack a rim on the wonder full pot holes of NYC.
Is the car lowered on the 535 sp vs the xi? Is the non sp 535 lower than the xi?
Do you get a choice of run flats or regular tires and any or all of the above? What's the consensus on the run flats?
Any other advice on options?
I've also heard about the multiple security deposits. Does anyone know how that works and to what effect on the monthly payments?
Thanks
Who would have predicted that Paris would make Las Vegas look classy?
Good choice for ME.
Porsche Cayman with Tiptronic - The ultra girlie car
Good choice for HER.
TagMan
Regarding the 450, the hybrid feature was not my main interest in the car; the size and safety accommodations were much more in line with our needs than the larger vehicle. Surprisingly, although the 460 exterior seemed much larger, the interior seemed more cramped than the 430. Further, if you have not investigated other features offered by the 450 (passenger memory settings e.g.) I recmmend you look at radar cruise control, emergency crash protection, and other details not necessarily available on the 460 at any price. My best way to describe the 450 while driving is you feel you are wearing it rather than trying to steer the Queen Mary. These attributes are mainly of interest to older folks, and I regret not giving them more careful consideration before I blew $10K. However, trunk size is a shocker...only 35% of the larger series w/o rear A/C.
I bought another Lexus because they design and manufacture a fine automobile...I was not fortunate enough to obtain a good one on my initial 460 foray...but the 450 has been flawless to date.
1. Since you complained about the size why did you go for the LS460L instead of the LS460?
2. If you don't like the Parking Assist why did you order one with it? For what I understand this is not a standard equipment right? It has been stated perfectly well from many places that the Parking Assist can be a big pain in the [non-permissible content removed] under certain conditions. Since Lexus is the first to implement this technology into a production car I'd still have to give them props. I also agree with the sales rep, if you don't like it then don't use it.
3. Again, from your statement: Regarding the 450, the hybrid feature was not my main interest in the car; the size and safety accommodations were much more in line with our needs than the larger vehicle. Seems to me you don't need something as big as the LS460 from the very beginning. Why did you choose it over the GS450h anyway? Lexus offers a full range of cars but it's up to each customer to choose what's the best for him or her.
4. Indeed the LS460 interior space is smaller than the LS430 but according to this the GS450h's interior is even smaller. If you are happy with the GS450h's space then I don't see how you can be not happy with LS460's. Also, according to this the LS460's exterior is not "much" larger.
5. I think you need to go back and re-investigate what is available in a LS460. All the features that you mentioned (passenger memory settings, radar cruise and active crash protection) are all available on the LS460. As matter of fact they are even available on the IS250, the entry level Lexus.
6. The LS460 is a full size luxury cruiser and the GS450h is among the sportiest in the Lexus lineup. Comparing the 2 is like comparing apples to oranges. Again, Lexus offers a variety of cars but it's up to the customers to choose the best suitors.
Regarding the 450, the hybrid feature was not my main interest in the car; the size and safety accommodations were much more in line with our needs than the larger vehicle. Surprisingly, although the 460 exterior seemed much larger, the interior seemed more cramped than the 430. Further, if you have not investigated other features offered by the 450 (passenger memory settings e.g.) I recmmend you look at radar cruise control, emergency crash protection, and other details not necessarily available on the 460 at any price. My best way to describe the 450 while driving is you feel you are wearing it rather than trying to steer the Queen Mary. These attributes are mainly of interest to older folks, and I regret not giving them more careful consideration before I blew $10K. However, trunk size is a shocker...only 35% of the larger series w/o rear A/C.
I bought another Lexus because they design and manufacture a fine automobile...I was not fortunate enough to obtain a good one on my initial 460 foray...but the 450 has been flawless to date.
Thanks for those thoughts - they all make a lot of sense. You can get the radar cruise control and emergency crash protection on the 460 if you special order the car but that doesn't take away from all of the other observations you made. I have sat in the car and it does seem less spacious inside than the 430 to me too, by the way. As for buying another Lexus, I haven't had any problems ever with mine but would never buy another one if I had the litany of problems you had - you're far more forgiving than I am!
Actually if you read my comments again more closely this time you'll see that one doesn't need to be an owner in order to make those assessments.
I made those comments based on my knowledge about the Lexus lineup and I don't need to be a LS460 owner to obtain those knowledge.
Had you read Lexus literature carefully you would realize one can get larger brakes, larger wheels, and air suspension only by buying the 460L w/TP. Brakes are far more important to my needs than horsepower. I tried to convey it was my perception after driving the vehicle for a while that it became so intimidating.
2. If you don't like the Parking Assist why did you order one with it? For what I understand this is not a standard equipment right? It has been stated perfectly well from many places that the Parking Assist can be a big pain in the [non-permissible content removed] under certain conditions. Since Lexus is the first to implement this technology into a production car I'd still have to give them props. I also agree with the sales rep, if you don't like it then don't use it.
Your careful research perhaps did not discover that ALL 460Ls' delivered in western US include this feature...take it or leave it. I will look forward to seeing your comments after trying it.
3. Again, from your statement: Regarding the 450, the hybrid feature was not my main interest in the car; the size and safety accommodations were much more in line with our needs than the larger vehicle. Seems to me you don't need something as big as the LS460 from the very beginning. Why did you choose it over the GS450h anyway? Lexus offers a full range of cars but it's up to each customer to choose what's the best for him or her.
Radar cruise and Pre-collision are a very surprising and welcome additions to the list of safety features on our 450. Perhaps I am wrong, but I don't think front passenger memory switches are available at any price on the 460. Also, at our age we don't carry many peeps in the back seat anymore; the seats, head room, and leg room although a fraction of inch different from the larger cars seem to fit just fine.
4. Indeed the LS460 interior space is smaller than the LS430 but according to this the GS450h's interior is even smaller. If you are happy with the GS450h's space then I don't see how you can be not happy with LS460's. Also, according to this the LS460's exterior is not "much" larger.
So, less is better? Where does one park the Bluetooth cell phone in the 460? What happened to that neat cubby in the 430 that fit a cell phone perfectly?
5. I think you need to go back and re-investigate what is available in a LS460. All the features that you mentioned (passenger memory settings, radar cruise and active crash protection) are all available on the LS460. As matter of fact they are even available on the IS250, the entry level Lexus.
After driving a 460 for 3-1/2 months I need to go back??
6. The LS460 is a full size luxury cruiser and the GS450h is among the sportiest in the Lexus lineup. Comparing the 2 is like comparing apples to oranges. Again, Lexus offers a variety of cars but it's up to the customers to choose the best suitors.
Thank you for the sage advice; I had not realized Lexus had such an offering of motor vehicles. Why should I believe my lying eyes and ignore the many years of pleasure owning these automobiles?
Tricky made his observations after the fact and you made yours from the text...Tricky said it cost him ten thousand dollars and he didn`t want to waste precious time...You didn`t loose ten thousand dollars and do not have first hand knowledge.... And the winner ??? Tony
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Wonder what mileage the hybrid's giving him?
DrFill
Some forum members are shocked and cant make sense out this car buyer's experiences because they are not consistent with some of the marketing brochures they have read about that car.
Go figure :confuse:
Tricky73, I myself think the GS450H is the best Lexus available today. But ofcourse my opinion is worth less than yours since it is not backed up with the experience of ownership.
The best way to describe experience to date is to say my MPG is approximately 50% better than the 4XX series and 35% better than an '05 ES 330 for the same driving route. Our small community seems to have either a stop sign or a traffic light at every cross street which requires lots of stop-and-go. I have been retired for some time and my driving routes have not changed much so I think this is the best way to explain the improvement. In absolute terms it appears it will get 21-22 MPG for what I do. For those rare freeway journeys 28-30 appears tops, which is not that much better than previous Lexi I have owned. Clearly the advantage for me is the improvement in stop-and-go.
I should add the one difficulty experienced with the 450 is that one of the 12V batteries seems under-designed for capacity and requires a bit of retraining to cope with this deficiency. Twice I have experienced run-down by using the radio too long in ACC setting, and forgetting to turn off the ignition in another. Fortunately the battery recovered within a few minutes and everything returned to normal. Surprisingly the electrical system is not designed to borrow energy from the propulsion pack in such situations, and the vehicle does not include an automatic power shutdown after X minutes ala' GM products I have owned in the past.
I dont know, maybe you are right and the it is in fact the face of Leonardo DaVinci's Madonna of the Yarnwinder?
A hip bar for a younger crowd with a Madonna of the Yarnwinder carpet for patrons to step on? IMO that sounds even more tacky than a Madonna pop star carpet and I am not even Catholic.(unless ofcourse the carpet is a wall-hanging)
I must say I was quite impressed.
Btw, how would you compare the supercharged effect of the electric motors in the GS450h to your twin turbos?
Sounds like a winner to me, at 330+HP and 5.5, 0-60. Can't ask for much better.
DrFill
Okay, maybe the LS460L has bigger brakes but does that means the LS460L will stop shorter than the LS460? I don't know the answer I am just merely asking. Could it possibly be that due to the longer wheelbase and higher weight that the LS460L just need the bigger brakes to achieve the same performance as the LS460 with the smaller ones? Did you do this study prior of purchasing the LS460L?
There is something call "special order" which you can tailor any Lexus to your liking. The only downside is you have to wait 3 months. However, that's often the case to all manufactures when one "special order" his/her cars.
I didn't say less is better but since apparently you are happy with your EVEN SMALLER GS450h so from the very beginning you are contradicting yourself.
Thank you for the sage advice; I had not realized Lexus had such an offering of motor vehicles. Why should I believe my lying eyes and ignore the many years of pleasure owning these automobiles?
What are you talking about? :confuse: :confuse:
By the way, you are the first guy I know in your age who uses the word "peeps". Way to go pops!!
Houdini, that's exactly the point I was trying to come across.
The reason I took time to reply all his posts is because I don't want other people who is interested in the LS460 get the wrong idea from his posts. There is nothing wrong with the car and he just didn't like it but he made it sound like the LS460 is crap comparing to the old LS430.
That's great news! Now you don't have to count the costs of going with the 7-series and you will save so MUCH money each month versus the 7 or the LS - all while having more fun than either the 7 or LS could deliver! I am really happy for you! It excites me to see true value - people getting more satisfaction while spending less money.
I am really proud of and impressed by the marketing that BMW has done for the 5-series (as well as the 3-series). With all the clamor and enthusiasm that I have noticed about the 5-series in different forums/venues and in the monthly sales numbers, you would think that we were in September 2003 all over again. It is simply amazing that BMW can generate such interest in a 4-year old vehicle with simply a fantastic engine upgrade and some minor trim and equipment differences. The fact that Honda chose to take a generous heap of inspiration from the 5-series for their flagship 2008 Accord is quite a statement about the success and desirability of the 5-series.