Luxury Lounge

dewey

Just sitting and slowly oxidizing, waiting for my date with the inevitable 335d or 335i next summer on a slow, Sunday afternoon.

Your waiting is getting me all excited about a new car and I already got a BMW 335i

hpowders

Heh! Heh! My contract says I have to wait for July 31, 2008.

That's okay because it forces me to wait for the 335d.

Very worth waiting for: 40 mpg vs. 20 mpg. Kind of a no-brainer. :shades:

blkhemi

It looks like I will be popping the top off of a new 335i Sport this fall.

I sat down with the wife(er.. boss) and for about 18 grand more than a fully loaded Accord, the 335i can be mine for my daily commute car.

My special friend who partially owns are local Bimmer dealership let me keep a hard loaded Graphite Mica 335i over the weekend. And this my fellow wrench heads is what sold us. Even the wife couldn't believe the job BMW did on this car.

He's even giving me a better trade value on my '06 Accord than the Honda dealer.

Here's the breakdown:

2007 BMW 335i Sedan- MSRP $38700+ D&D of $775

Options- Premium Pack- $2550
Sport Pack- $1700
Cold Weather Pack- $1000
BMW Assist- $750
Power rear sunshade + manual side shades- $575
Sat radio- $595

I didn't want to go overboard on the options, hence no nav/i-Drive, slushbox, and few useless-for-me options.

After a bit of going back and forth, and with him throwing in the free 100k mile warranty, I walked for about $45k flat sans the Accord trade of about $15k(high miles).

We checked the A4 of course, but I'm going to wait until the '08 gets here late in '08 to consider it because admittedly, with the exception of a few, the class has moved on passed the A4. I checked out the new CTS, but Caddy still has some homework to do. Don't get me wrong. The CTS is extremely class competitive, but it won't scare the 3-Series away. It's very complete package, enough to garner my attention. The G35 was a close second, but the Bimmer won it. The IS wasn't considered for a variety of reasons.

How'd I do? I think I came away unscathed.

dewey

The watches are just decoration.

True! But automatic Swiss watchmaking aint cheap today since the skills of a Swiss watchmaker are so very rare today as many of them lost their employment during the 1970s Quartz period.

The high price of a automatic Swiss watch reflects the very high cost of obsolete manufacturing processes. The fact that people are willing to pay for such costly obsolete manufacturing is what makes a automatic Swiss watch a luxury. :surprise:

dewey

Congratulations Blkhemi,

it was the test drive that sold me the BMW 335i (my sales rep did not need any salesmanship skills).

IMO Sport Package is the best option among all the options. Also good move in not picking it with the auto tranny option.

jcoby

I just lease 'em for no money down...

That's the area that I hope you can help Topspin628 with for his future BMW purchase. Correct me if I am wrong, but I think that you mentioned to me in the past that you are generally able to get your BMWs for practically no money down AND at a monthly rate that is comparable to or lower than what BMW USA advertises on its website for a similar lease term. I know that you need to negotiate the sales price down to achieve this, but are there some other things that you do to allow for zero down (special money factors, etc.) while maintaining a competitive monthly lease payment?

jcoby

Congratulations on your purchase! Within a year, perhaps over a quarter of the regular posters in this forum will have a 335i. It really is a fantastic vehicle and it is just the right size. Adults will fit in the rear, but it is compact enough to be a blast to drive.

houdini1

Looks like a good deal to me. If you want to play you gotta buy the toys!! Congratulations!

hpowders

Money factors have nothing to do with leaving little money down. One has to be a loyal BMW customer to avoid leaving a returnable security deposit (usually kept for possible wear and tear) that other folks have to pay. There are a few nickel and dime fees everyone must pay up front.

Advertised BMW leases always require a cap. cost reduction which enables the manufacturer to advertise a deceptively low monthly payment. Divide the cap. cost reduction amount by the number of months leased and then insert this amount back into the monthly payment to find out the true monthly payment, pre-tax.

To avoid this, one must tell the dealer one doesn't want a cap cost reduction. I believe most dealers cooperate on this. All one should pay up front is the security deposit (if not a loyal customer) and a few nickel and dime fees. No more than $1500 or so up front.

To pay the base money factor, one must know what it is and Car_Man posts them frequently on the BMW leasing forums. Dealers like to mark them up. They assume the customer doesn't know the value of the base money factor.

I get good leasing deals because I do my homework and always make my offers after thoroughly researching every aspect of the lease in question. There is plenty of good information on the net for novices.

Of course, a good rule to follow as when purchasing:
Never attempt to get a great deal on a new, hot vehicle... one of my anticipated problems next summer with the newly released (at that time) 335d. If it so happens that I can get the 335i for $100 less per month than a 335d, then so be it.

lexusguy

We checked the A4 of course, but I'm going to wait until the '08 gets here late in '08 to consider it because admittedly, with the exception of a few, the class has moved on passed the A4. I checked out the new CTS, but Caddy still has some homework to do. Don't get me wrong. The CTS is extremely class competitive, but it won't scare the 3-Series away. It's very complete package, enough to garner my attention. The G35 was a close second, but the Bimmer won it. The IS wasn't considered for a variety of reasons.

Congrats. I agree that the A4's time has passed. The current class leaders are the 3 and the G35. If it were me I honestly don't know which way I'd go. Probably with the Infiniti because I would want the NAV and all of the tech stuff, and I wouldn't get the stick so it wouldn't matter that the G's 6MT can't match the 3's for refinement.

The New Benz C-class is nice, but I think the interior still isn't up to snuff (although its far better than that woefully bad '01 C interior), and their 3.5L doesn't have quite the same punch as Infiniti's or especially the BMW 3.0TT.

blkhemi

The Sport Package really does bring this car into it's own, although the none equipped version is just as sprightly.

It's amazing what those people of Bavaria can do. They can make this car handle as if it's on rails all the while handling the worst of NYC potholes and expansion joints. And this thing is vault-solid.

blkhemi

The Benz was also in the running. But MB needs to really do something with the 3.5L V-6 engine. Either increase it's power or design a new engine cuz 268hp nowadays ain't nothing to call home about.

And that is what really got it swiped off of the sheet. It is wholly improved over it's predecessor. The handling and ride dynamics will definetely impress. But the heart needs a recharging.

lexusguy

The high price of a automatic Swiss watch reflects the very high cost of obsolete manufacturing processes. The fact that people are willing to pay for such costly obsolete manufacturing is what makes a automatic Swiss watch a luxury.

Quite. It's the same with Audio Research or Conrad Johnson vacuum tube powered amplifiers. Transistors are smaller, more efficient, far cheaper to produce, and more powerful, but the tubes are still selling.

blkhemi

Agreed and thanks!

blkhemi

You're definetely right. You have to pay to play. Thanks.

atlas7

Best Post ever!!!!

jcoby

Thank you very much for the info! Topspin628 would like to get into a 750i for not too terribly much more than a 5-series (hopefully less than a $300 difference per month). Who knows, maybe they will offer even better base money factors on the 750i since the 5-series is already selling so briskly right now.

cdnpinhead

Does this mean MacIntosh is still making those huge high-dollar tube-based power amps? When I had much less to spend while I was in college I lusted after such things. This was some time ago. Or so.

I guess it's true that whatever goes around comes around.

I still won't own a personal driver that doesn't have a manual transmission.

topspin628

Topspin628 would like to get into a 750i for not too terribly much more than a 5-series (hopefully less than a $300 difference per month).

Yes, I really like the 535xi and will load it up with goodies but if the 7 is within striking distance on the lease (250-300 per month) then I may make the move. I need to drive the 750 with regular suspension. I drove the sport and I found it a bit too rough for that type of car. I plan to drive it on Tues and then see if I think it's worth the extra cash. Thanks

asolare1

I'm amazed to hear that you got within $100 of the Kelly Blue Book trade in price for your car. Around here (Northern NJ) all of the dealers use the Galves auto prices which, at least in the case of my 2004 LS430, are more than 25% lower than the KBB trade in price. I'm going to check out Carmax and see what they offer.

dewey

The link below is from BMW. This is the closest I will ever get in terms of driving a BMW M3 in the Grand Prix Nurburgring circuit.

link title

asolare1

Thanks for the explanation, jcoby. I'm very surprised that the market for used LS430's is so much stronger in the Dallas area than in Northern NJ because this is certainly a great market for the new ones. This is my first Lexus and previously I've had many Mercedes and BMW vehicles. I've never before experienced depreciation on them anywhere even remotely close to what I'm facing on the LS430. Perhaps it is because my vehicle was so loaded and there isn't much of a market for those accessories. The car had a sticker price of over $68,000 new and to only see offers in the mid twenties on an '04 bought a little over three years ago in very good condition with 53,000 miles seems like a pretty pathetic value performance to me.

dewey

Question: Who the heck will buy this oversized five door BMW hatchback? What will makes a V5 more compelling than a X6 (the V5's extra row of seats) ? In fact what will make a X6 more compelling than a X5 (the lack of a third row on the X6)? Now a X5, soon a X6, later a X4 and a V5? And what will be their next secret weapon to keeps their sales rocketing upwards: a V1 and V2 :sick:

This new massive onslaught of rebadged platform sharing at BMW is beginning to resemble GM's past endeavors.

Details are still sparse but this is BMW’s next niche-filling model, codenamed V5. And while blue-and-white-propeller officials might not like you calling it a people carrier, that’s what it is. But not as you know it…

With Mercedes’ R-class not selling especially well, BMW has gone for a different look. Rather than a luxurious raised-estate body the V5 is more of a slimmed-down X5. An unveiling is scheduled for the Frankfurt Motor Show in 2009.

link title

jcoby

I'm amazed to hear that you got within $100 of the Kelly Blue Book trade in price for your car.

I was also amazed! KBB is spot-on in Dallas and it is the very first website that I go to to assess the value of a vehicle.

I do not recall seeing your user name before today. Welcome to the forum!

Are you looking to replace your LS 430 with the LS 460 or with a competitive make?

anthonyp

H
Where you really have be beat, is your wife doesn`t like to drive...I therefore have to get an extra car....I sure have learned alot from you and unfortunatel after the fact...Sometime in the future I hope to change my ways, but right now I have already taken the beating so I will hold on a little longer (until something wonderful happens--like your Toyota short)Then just close my eyes and jump`

I hope the gentleman that is contemplating a 7 series over a five, reads what you have written in the past, and my opinion that the five is better than the seven although both cars interiors leave something to desire....I hope to find out something about the `smell of the bio-diesel in a few weeks and will keep you informed....Tony

lexusguy

Does this mean MacIntosh is still making those huge high-dollar tube-based power amps? When I had much less to spend while I was in college I lusted after such things. This was some time ago. Or so.

McIntosh - Macintosh is an Apple brand. And yes, they still make tube powered products.

hpowders

Yes, I'm a one car family, Tony. I'm the only driver. I never have to debate with my wife as to the choice of which vehicle to lease. She always (here it comes!) goes along for the ride. Happily, she has become quite accustomed to BMWs. Smart gal!

Selling TM short was a great trade. Selling GS short not too long ago would have been pretty good too. I didn't do that one. Rats!!

jcoby

This is pure SPECULATION on my part, but the air suspension may give prospective buyers pause (historically speaking), giving the LS 430 Ultra worse resale value than the standard LS 430.

Here is the KBB trade-in for an Ultra in Princeton, NJ:

link title

Here is the KBB trade-in value for a standard LS 430 (with common options):

link title

No matter how you adjust the equipment levels, the Ultra does not appear to add much more than $3000 to the trade-in value of the car.

The 2004 LS 430's stellar performance in the Intellichoice ratings is most likely based on the standard model:

link title

For such a vehicle and at that price point, I would not expect to get very close to the KBB trade-in value. Even so, I am surprised and concerned that you have not been offered a reasonable trade-in value for your car.

asolare1

I do not recall seeing your user name before today. Welcome to the forum!

Are you looking to replace your LS 430 with the LS 460 or with a competitive make?

Thanks for the welcome. I've posted a few times before on this website but never in this particular thread.

I am (was?) interested in trading the 2004 LS430 for an '08 LS460 but am having second thoughts after seeing what I was offered for it. The car is terrific and has never needed any service other than scheduled maintenance. I thought I'd see something close to the KBB price when I went to trade it in and would have ordered the new one if I had. At the prices prevalent around here, I'd rather keep my old one because, in reality, I'm probably nuts for thinking of giving up such a good car in the first place. One thing is for sure, I'll never buy another Lexus outright again. I'd only lease this brand in the future to remove any worry about resale value.

jcoby

Yes, I'm a one car family, Tony. I'm the only driver.

That's great! Next year you get to save another $100-$200 or more when you get your 335i. Can't beat all that fun for possibly less than $500 per month!

asolare1

For such a vehicle and at that price point, I would not expect to get very close to the KBB trade-in value. Even so, I am surprised and concerned that you have not been offered a reasonable trade-in value for your car.

With my mileage and options, the trade in price according to Intellichoice should be $32,124, Edmunds $32,001, KBB $33835, and NADA $32950. The problem is, I've seen five dealers around here, three of which were Lexus dealers and two others and every one of them uses the Galves pricing book and according to that book the value is in the low to mid 20's. You think when trying to sell a car with a $10,000+ profit margin you'd be reasonable on a trade in but that's not what I'm seeing here even though all admired the way my car looks.

jcoby

I'm probably nuts for thinking of giving up such a good car in the first place.

Certainly not, you just wanted the latest and the greatest.
However, I would not expect the LS 460 to be much better than the LS 430 Ultra anyway.

You already have some features that do not appear to be available on the LS 460 SWB:

link title

You would have to pay in the mid-$70's or more to get those same features in the LS 460L. I would also be very hesitant about doing that if I were in the same situation and if I lived in your area.

hpowders

A quick calculation shows a target pre-tax monthly payment of $539.03 for the 335i sedan at this time for 24 months. Not bad. Not great.

If I get lucky, BMW may run a loyalty program next summer on the 335i sedan, knocking down the interest rate a per-cent or so for repeat leasees. That will depend on sales figures. 335i sedan inventory may build up next summer due to folks going for the less sedate coupe and also holding back purchasing or leasing in anticipation of the debut of the much anticipated 335d. I hope to take advantage of such a scenario. I can always get a 335d two years down the road.

jlbl

Barcelona (Jlbl are you listening?)

Actually I was not listening. I was paying a visit to my daughter, who lives in Barcelona.

What Barcelona inhabitants feel about the city is that it is not (only) a tourist worldwide attraction. It combines the metropolis allure with the easy life of a humble Mediterranean village. For instance, my daughter lives downtown, at a ten-minute walk from either "El Liceu" (Barcelona Opera House) or a nice swim at the beach.

Regards,
Jose

lexusguy

What Barcelona inhabitants feel about the city is that it is not (only) a tourist worldwide attraction. It combines the metropolis allure with the easy life of a humble Mediterranean village. For instance, my daughter lives downtown, at a ten-minute walk from either "El Liceu" (Barcelona Opera House) or a nice swim at the beach.

I've only been very briefly, on my way to France, so I haven't seen really any of the city. If I make it back, any recommendations for "must-see\do\eats?"

tricky73

I would concur with your decision to keep the 430. Numerous posts in the past describe my regrets in giving up a 430 for a 460L. Bottom line is the 460 is an evolutionary product, not a revolutionary vehicle for previous Lexus sedan owners. The parking assist option is a joke, and I had a call from the NY Times recently who are doing a story on this "feature." To be fair, Lexus did refund the cost for the PA option after numerous complaints.

With my dissatisfaction I traded the 460 for a GS 450h which so far has been a wonderful machine...much closer to the 430 series from the past. It is better equipped than the 460L...radar cruise and passenger seat memory are both welcome additions.

jlbl

Coming soon (I am preparing them).

Jose

tagman

Congratulations on the 335i!!!! As you know I've been trying to get the wife to choose that car, since it is her turn now to pick some wheels. I figured it for a great addition to the family.

So, we went to the BMW dealership this weekend, and I thought for sure she would fall for the 335i, but she did not. She said she wanted something smaller and sportier. She asked to visit the Porsche dealership. Heck, I've already got one of those!... I asked her what she had in mind... she said she wanted to look at the Cayman!

So... we went there and she liked it, but we left with wallet intact, while she kept muttering about whether or not she needed a convertible or not, due to the Cayman's hardtop.

Apparently, she says she doesn't want to drive my Carrera S, as she remembers thrashing the gears in my previous Boxster... so she wants a Tiptronic. Ugh.

Who, knows, maybe we'll end up with "his and hers" Porsches in the garage. Absurd, IMO, but I guess life could be worse than that.

To confuse matters even more, when we got home, she said that maybe she should start driving the Jag more, as she barely ever drives it. I reminded her that she said she wanted a small car when we were at the BMW dealership. She replied that the Jag is so beautiful, she would hate to get rid of it. Believe me, hemi, this whole thing has now gotten weird, IMO.

I don't have a clue what she's wanting to do... so I'm just going to sit back and wait a few days or a week and ask her if she's thought any more about it.

I'll keep you posted.

Anyway, congratulations again... I must admit, I'm a bit envious... I really like the 335i a lot.

TagMan

tagman

I've always complimented BMW for their styling and leadership in design... even their trend setting capabilities.

But, some of these recent pics that are showing up of upcoming models... well, they have me concerned that something has gone wrong within their design department. If that's the case, they will suffer serious consequences down the road.

TagMan

asolare1

With my dissatisfaction I traded the 460 for a GS 450h which so far has been a wonderful machine...much closer to the 430 series from the past. It is better equipped than the 460L...radar cruise and passenger seat memory are both welcome additions.

I'm surprised to see you got out of the 460L so quickly. Were you disappointed that it was not an improvement over the 430 or did you feel it was actually worse? Given your unhappiness with it was so great that you decided to get rid of it, why did you decide to get another Lexus? I never even considered a 450. What is it about the 450h that you like better than the 460L (other than the obvious fact that it's a hybrid)?

dewey

weekend, and I thought for sure she would fall for the 335i, but she did not.

And I thought this forum would have its own BMW335i Quartet consisting of Blkhemi, HP, you/your wife and myself. Oh well I guess we will just have to settle for a 335i Trio instead.

dewey

I have many fond memories of Barcelona. One of them was its vibrant nightlife. Beyond midnight there seems to be more people walking along the streets than during the day.

dewey

BMW is merely extending it successes in niche marketing even further by fragmenting current niches even further

The X5 market is being fragmented further by offering a X6 and V5 to customers who are currently not interested in a X5.

Will it work? We will have to wait and see how auto buyers respond to this approach. Personally I think too much of any good thing is not a good thing at all and this view certainly applies to fragmentation overkill.

louiswei

I agree about the GS-F; I am not too optimistic.

Let's not get over ourselves here.

First of all, the GS-F hasn't been approved by Lexus yet. Second, even if it's approved, it'll be based on the next gen GS instead of the current one. The next GS is likely to hit the market in late 2010 as a 2011 model. Even if the GS-F becomes a reality, it won't arrive until late 2011 or 2012. We have a long time to wait, folks...

Also, I think how well the buying public received the IS-F will indicate how likely the GS-F will get approved.

louiswei

Tagman, does your wife have to buy a car like "right now"? If not then I say wait for the new 1-series to arrive. Since she wants a smaller car a 135i M-package will be great, wouldn't you think?

Just my 2 cents.

tagman

Since she wants a smaller car a 135i M-package will be great, wouldn't you think?

I would think that could make sense, and agree with your logic... but doubt she would. I think she's wanting something "flashy", for lack of a better word. That's where the Cayman might fit in. We'll see what happens.

TagMan

tagman

And I thought this forum would have its own BMW335i Quartet consisting of Blkhemi, HP, you/your wife and myself. Oh well I guess we will just have to settle for a 335i Trio instead.

Well, don't give up just yet. Depending upon what she does, I could conceivably change that GTI to the 335i myself. Everything's up in the air, as far as I'm concerned. (The only absolute keeper is the Porsche Carrera S).

As soon as I know what she does, I'll fill in the rest of the slots.

TagMan

tagman

Personally I think too much of any good thing is not a good thing at all and this view certainly applies to fragmentation overkill.

I agree about the "fragmentation overkill". And I don't think it's going to work out very well.

TagMan

hpowders

Trio or quartet? I have to know very soon, Dewey.
I have to book the room for rehearsal time.

Hope we can do better than that Viagra commercial.

tagman

Trios are good. When do we start rehearsing?

Once you know for sure whether or not you are a trio or a future quartet!

TagMan