By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
Okay...
So the LS460L with TP that comes with the larger brakes will stop shorter than the regular LS460?
I don't know the answer, I am just asking questions.
Great news! I meant to ask, are you trading in the GS or keeping it? I would choose the 328i, as well. I agree with Louiswei's logic, but I believe that I would come down to earth as you did and think about the usability of that extra power and the overall value. The 328i has plenty of pep and power and is just as exceptional as the 335i. The thrill of those twin-turbos would be intoxicating, but I think my enthusiasm would be tempered after receiving speeding tickets while enjoying that power as our dear friend Dewey can attest to.
It is a bit sad to see another Lexus owner on this forum switch over to BMW, but not too much so.
Are you getting the 328i with the sports package or no?
The 2 major reason why I choose the IS350 over the 330i are: Interiors and engine. Replace the 330i with 335i then it might be a closer call. I just can't stand how plain looking (although the materials are great) the BMW interiors are. Through time the 5-series interior has actually grown on me but I still can't stand the 3- and 7-series ones.
I would've take the 335i with E46's interior over the IS350 in a heartbeat but I just can't sync with the Banglized interior. The X5's is an exception though, I think it's gorgeous.
Manufacture wise I like each interior design (not material quality) in the following order:
Acura > Lexus > MB > Infiniti > BMW > Audi
The GS 450h probably feels quite different from the GS 300/350 with its uplevel suspension and steering systems, so my opinion about the current GS does not yet extend to the GS 450h due to insufficient information about the potentially enhanced capabilities of the 450h.
Of course, my previously stated opinion about the GS-F is mere SPECULATION that I hope is proven wrong in the future.
They definitely are not my favorites, but I have not found a bad one in the bunch over many years of time. However, I do prefer the interiors of the previous-generation BMWs over those that are currently on the marketplace. I especially like the interior of the previous 7-series; I have never been intimidated by buttons - and that car had plenty of them.
My order of preference for currently available models is as follows:
Lexus & Acura (too close to call) > Infiniti > Audi > BMW >> MB
The GS in my opinion is a traditional Lexus and that has great ride quality with not so rock-your-world handling. The GS300 was seriously under power but the GS350 will be just right. The new GS460 will not be a hot rod like the 550i and E550 but it'll serve the purpose well of further distinguish the difference between the V6 GS (350) and V8 GS (460). The GS will come up short when up against the 5er, E and M in the handling department but luxury and comfort wise should be top notch.
I can understand why that the CR is not so crazy about the current GS. It is one of those rare Lexus models bugged by many first year problems. Although there should be no excuse for this but it is understandable for me since the current GS the first model of the all new L-finesse generation.
I never see the GS as a direct competitor to the 5-series and M, I see it more like Lexus' version of a midsize luxury sedan. I've said this and I'll repeat myself over and over: Lexus is not out there to design a Lexus 5-series or Lexus 3-series. They are providing the buying public with a different flavor and choice in this highly competitive luxury market. One really can't fault Lexus for wanting to be themselves.
Car mag comparos are good references but they are only just good references. At the end of the day one has to choose a car based on his/her personal taste and driving behavior and not based on editor's pick.
I think it's just too early to even speculate about the GS-F since one thing for sure that it won't be based on the current gen GS. I am eager to find out how well the IS-F stacks up against the powerful M3, C63 and RS4. From how well the IS-F performs against the competitors will give an indication about how serious Lexus is about the new "F-line" then I'll know what to expect with the future GS-F. I have no doubt in Toyota/Lexus' ability to produce a competitive factory tuned sports sedan, however I am a little worried about their commitment.
Lexus has the right idea, but refuses to give up their principles, and build the car to the market. The IS gets closer, but still won't give in. :confuse:
The word for today is "Diversify".
DrFill
Overall, I am just reshuffling my car portfolio. I went from a Subaru wagon + GS to 328i + RX350. I believe there is always be at least one Lexus in my garage.
I said that because, IMO, not many people would trade a car after 3 months and lose $10,000. in the process based on the complaints that you enumerated.
That said, you are to be commended for sticking to your guns and getting a car you are happy with. I hope that I have your energy and determination when I am 80!! Please stick around and post more often.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
I would love to stick with Lexus in a 350 like yours, but I found the back seat room a bit too small for rear-facing baby carseat. Also, there are no lease deals to be had here.
It makes sense for you not getting the sports package. I think with or without it you will enjoy the 328i equally.
Again, congrats.
I fully agree with this sentiment (and I have stated it before), but the GS has a special problem that Lexus created when it sized the ES. The ES 350 is also a midsize sedan that happens to be noticeably roomier than the GS for close to $10,000 less. By contrast, the BMW 3 is noticeably smaller than the 5, the Infiniti G35 is noticeably smaller than the Infiniti M, the A4 is noticeably smaller than the A6, and the C-class is noticeably smaller than the E-Class. None of the competition has a midsized vehicle priced in the low $30's that is actually larger than its entry in the mid-priced class. It would seem fair to compare the GS to smaller IS, but the GS appears to have more in common with the ES in terms of performance, ride, and handling (unfortunately).
CR was not fond of the GS partially due to the fact that its ride was no better than the competition (and worse than some), but it also trailed much of the competition in routine and emergency handling; this test was performed before the release of the most recent reliability data.
I only use comparisons to weed out vehicles, but I decide for myself what I will ultimately purchase based on what I am actually looking for in a vehicle at that time. Based on a composite analysis of reviews for the current GS 300/350, I would actually weed that vehicle out of contention if I were shopping for similar vehicles and had no prior experience with Lexus. The fact that I am partial to Lexus helps to bring the GS back into contention.
It is too early to speculate on the GS-F but, like you, I have my doubts about Lexus' commitment to making a competitive vehicle of that type; they certainly have the resources and capability, though.
Even if my next vehicle is not a Lexus, I expect to always hold Lexus in high esteem based on their overall brand philosophy and contributions made to the luxury arena.
DrFill
The ES is a FWD, glorified Camry that wears a Lexus badge. GS on the other hand is RWD and offers much better handling (not comparing to the 5er and M but to the ES). I had an ES350 as a loaner car before and it drove NOTHING like the GS. It felt nose heavy, handles horrible except driving straight on a highway and interior fit-'n-finish is also a notch below the GS. The GS on the other hand although not a top notch performer but due to the RWD setup, better platform and more powerful engine should have no problem out-perform 90% of the FWD cars out there. Also, I think the GS is more similar to the IS in terms of performance and handling due to platform sharing. During the Taste of Lexus event, the GS350 I drove felt like a bigger IS350 with a softer suspension.
Rumor has it that the current gen ES will be the last ES that rides on the Camry platform, the next gen will be RWD. I don't know how true that is because if it's true then Lexus will have a serious problem with the conflict between GS and ES. ES in my opinion is always for those people who like driving a Buick but want something more luxurious and reliable. It is by far the best selling sedan in Lexus lineup so I hope they won't mess with success.
I know that the IS and GS share a platform, but I do feel that the GS drives more like the ES than the IS in everyday routine driving; I am sure that the GS will handily outperform the ES in emergency maneuvers and on a race track, but the IS simply feels much crisper than both of those vehicles in routine everday driving and the GS feels rather sedate, like the ES, by comparison.
To make this clearer, let's just assign numbers to the relative sportiness of these vehicles (I am grabbing these numbers out of the air to make my point):
Lexus IS - 8
Lexus GS - 5 (should be a 7)
Lexus ES - 4
There should be a smaller gap between the GS and IS than between the GS and the ES, but the opposite is true, IMO. The GS does NOT feel like the ES, but it should feel more like the IS than it does at present.
No offense taken; I am simply trying to provide data (albeit opinionated) on Lexus automobiles I have owned in the past.
There should be a place within this forum for such inputs. A very wise mentor once told me those having data have power...those without, opinions. Seemingly, several months of ownership provide data more valuable to prospective buyers than data furnished by those solely educated by publications or a drive around the block.
In my past life we depended much more on those skilled in celestial mechanics than people looking through telescopes to plan a mission for sending scientific probes to Venus or Jupiter.
You are the winner because you are still on your feet at eighty, and I hope to follow you..Further you have made a success of yourself to be able to afford what you want, and man enough to admit you didn`t get what you wanted and take the loss...I congradulate you.... I have read and participated with you over this time and found you had an opinion, stated it , and admitted your prejudice..To me that is helpful....Thanks and keep up whatever you are doing
Wow. Acura with best interior design? Audi with the worst? Which Acura? The RDX? The MDX?
I would rank Audi as overall #1. The rest would be much more difficult. The LS460 and LX570 interiors are excellent, the rest... not so much. Same with the MB S and CL class, with perhaps the CLS as a "not bad". The EX35 interior is exceptional, the G and M are pretty good. The only BMW interior I really like is the X5. Acura doesn't have an interior I like.
Apparently Mr. Clements didn't get that memo.
Actually the GS350 is the best of the bunch. The 450h feels quite different, much heavier, much clumsier, and a lot more boring. The active stabilizer cannot fix the handling problems caused by that 400lbs, and I would pay Lexus to remove the VGRS steering. The GS450h just makes no sense to me. The GS350 is easily capable of 22 or 23mpg, and its just a few tenths slower. The GS450h costs $10 grand more and the trunk gets cut in half, and for that you get...?
Acura interior: TL > MDX > RL > TSX > RDX
Lexus interior: GS > LS > IS > LX > GX > SC > RX
MB: E-class > C-class > S-class (all the SUVs are about the same)
Infiniti: M > G > FX > QX
BMW: X5 > 5-series > 6-series > X3 > Z4 > 7-series > 3-series
Audi: Everything > A8
Like I said, the ranking is based on the design aspect, not fit-'n-finish and material quality.
I had an Audi A4 for about 2 weeks and the interior is nothing to phone home about. The Lexus IS has a much better interior, I'll put the 3-series and TL ahead of it as well.
We've been over this before.
You get a V8-like performance with a better than V6 FE.
Yes, it's not much faster, but then again the 550i is not much faster than the new 535i as well. Does that make the 550i irrelevant?
But I do respect your opinion and taste. That's what makes this board function. But that opinion is not universal and that taste is definitely aquired.
For me, Acura has not one interior that makes me ooh and ahh.
Lexus, with exception of the new LX and LS', there is nothing there for me.
Infiniti- G,M, upcoming EX. Nothing more
BMW- This is a mixed bag. I'm not crazy for the 7 and 5, but the X5's is gorgeous and the 3 series(sans i-Drive/NaV) comes across as one of the best in it's class, functionally and in the looks and feel department.
Audi- All of them. They hold the bar in all of their respective classes. Even the R8(with the exception of some Aston's and the new Maser GS) holds it's own.
But again these are my opinions.
Since this will be a lowly ol' "commuter" car, I decided to give it the traditional break-in and drive to the city today. Well, for some reason, that trip awfully shorter than normal. Maybe it's the shock and awe of the BMW.
Anyway, got $15.5K for the Accord and will be picking up some winter wheels/tires on Friday for the upcoming winter.
I just have to say that this car is one of the best kept secrets in all of the automobile industry, enough for me to pay 15k over my spending allotment just to have a permanent smile on my face.
I'm envious.
Yes, it's not much faster, but then again the 550i is not much faster than the new 535i as well. Does that make the 550i irrelevant?
If the 450h trounced the 350s FE, or was more than marginally quicker, I wouldn't have a problem with it, but it doesn't, and it isn't. To me, having the handling ruined and the trunk reduced to worthlessness for a couple of ticks and maybe 2 extra mpg is a very bad value at $10K.
In the case of the 5 series, I'd get the 535i. Its a brilliant engine, and is only down in reality about 30 horses from the 550i. Same with the GS. Lexus' 3.5L is arguably the best V6 currently on the market, and its only down 39 or so horses from the 450h. I don't think either the 550i or the 450h is worth the money.
Totally in agreement.
When I went to the dealership to look at the BMW's, my first intention was to get the 5-Series(either 535i or 550i), but of course the 335i fitted my needs much better.
The difference in the 550i and 535i is not so great anymore, when compared to the old 528i/530i and 545i.
Don't be envious, join the fun... :shades:
So... I've been a little bit out of the loop in the forum recently. So, what did you buy... are we talking coupe, sedan, or convertible?
Regardless, ALL the 3 Series are GREAT, IMO, but I guess ultimately we must pick our own favorite, so I think I would sacrifice the four doors, and this would be the one I would be tempted to go for... IF I break down and buy it.
Man, is that thing sharp, or WHAT!?
Maybe... just maybe. But at least dreaming is good for now.
Once again, good news, and good luck with it... that commute is going to be too short for a while!
TagMan
Tagman - that is a beautiful machine, just gorgeous. :drool:
You beat me to it; my 328i will be in my garage this Sat.
Doesn't this car made you wish you were in your 20's again? I felt that way when I test drove it; but then again I could not have possibly afford any premium cars in my 20's anyways
I definitely get what you're saying, and I agree with you. That's why people are willing to pay the $8-12K price for a V8 in luxury cars that offer both 6s and 8s as options. It's not really about the 0-60, it's the effortless power you get with 325+ft.lbs of torque, and even the exhaust note. A V6 never sounds as good as a V8.
This generation of cars is different than past generations though because many of the sixes have significantly reduced the power gap compared to the V8. With the last generation GS, the old I6 was a slug, two seconds slower to 60 than the 4.0 and 4.3 V8s. The new 3.5 can match the performance of the old 4.3, and even the new 4.6 isn't hugely more powerful. For now the sixes in the A6 and S80 are still easily beaten by the eights, but both Audi and Volvo are working on new turbo engines good for 300 or so hp.
I expect that the next round of new V8s (unless C02 restrictions put a stop to it) will produce at least 400hp.
Name your first 6 kids after me, ok?
DrFill
Not comparable at all. I found the GS450h extremely smooth and fast but certainly not as fast as my twin turbo. In a previous post you mentioned what a shame the 3 series does not have a smooth V8 Lexus LS engine. If the 3 series had such an engine it would be a disaster and a laughing stock among sport sedans. Six Cylinder engines turbo charged and not turbo charged in Porsches and various BMWs are perfect engines. Sometimes when I hear the grunt exhaust note my twin turbo makes I feel like I am listening to a beautiful mechanical symphony.
In fact there are many BMW fans who complain the twin turbo is far too smooth. Just imagine what would happen if BMW put a smooth V8 Lexus LS engine under its hood :lemon:
I am not criticisng the smooth and quiet engine in the LS but it certainly does not belong in a sport sedan unless it was tuned to rev and make those disquieting grunt noises that you seem to dislike.
WARNING: Dont buy a BMW 328i. You will regret it since based on your posts I dont think you will really appreciate it. Apparently you like smooth and quiet cars but you're buying a BMW because of a good lease deal. That to me makes no sense whatsover. A good lease deal is only good when its for the car you really want. IMO you would be much more happier with a competing model from Mercedes Benz or Lexus that does not emphasize performance/handling as much as a BMW.
Also the BMW services in Toronto sucks! I know this first hand from three different dealerships.
I know you will enjoy your 335i as much as I am enjoying mine. In all honesty I cant think of a better commuter car although I'd rather be driving it on the no-limit-speed Autobahn.
I just saw a family man in a Porsche Carerra S with two comfortable looking kids sitting behind him.
Who knows maybe my next family car will be a Porsche Carrera S
I, too, will get the G350 over G450h/460 and 535i over 550i. I also think that the GS450h is probably overpriced and serve little purpose for its existence. However, the message I was trying to get across is that it is NOT totally pointless.
I like the idea of V8 power with V6 FE and V12 power with V8 FE but if that'll cost me 10 to 20 grands (or in LS600hL's case, 30 to 40 grands) along with a reduced trunk then I guess I'll pass.
Nevertheless this is a new idea in the auto industry so even it's not to my liking I won't bash them just for the sake of it. As matter of fact I wouldn't mind to stand up and explain the idea to those who don't get the "philosophy".
Also, the hard top 3-series is much heavier than the regular coupe I think.
If I spend more than 75% of the time just cruising with the top down with the car then I'll definitely get the convertible. Otherwise, as a daily driver in LA traffic a 335i coupe will be a much better choice in my case.
I envy that you live in the Bay area...
Yeah, you are right... so instead of drop-dead gorgeous with the top down, it's only incredibly attractive with it up. I see your point.
TagMan
The wife mandated that the only way I was to get one would be to get a four door, or else.
Meaning that I could've gotten the coupe, but all hell would've broken loose as I was the main decider in her not getting the XKR hardtop. Since she gave up on getting an SL until the next model, she wanted something other than a cloth top convertible.
But me being me, I said if you;'re gonna buy one, go all out and guive Jag $95k for the top dog. She didn't like it, although she puts the top down everyday when she drives it!!??
And if the incomparable Lexus LS had a buzzing little BMW engine it would certainly be a laughing stock among luxury sedans. :lemon: :shades:
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
"a buzzing little BMW engine"? Hmmmmm.
TagMan
You sound like you genuinely like the car, too, which makes me truly happy for you!! (Here's a high 5)
TagMan