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Comments
???
Did I somehow miss something significant?
TagMan
Tagman, you are doing a great job of detecting these scoundrels so keep up the good work. I think you have found your calling. :shades:
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Thanks... I know we all want it to be fun and FAIR.
So, we don't all get too distracted, the count so far is
European = 20 ..... Japanese = 4
Just kidding!...LOL.
Seriously the "official count" so far is...
European = 5 ..... Japanese = 4
TagMan
TM
...On with the voting!
Nobody favors American? Well I guess in American I mean Cadillac.
Just got back from the Caddy dealer, went to check out the new CTS. I have to admit that I am very very very impressed. If the CTS belongs in the entry lux class then it's definitely the leader right now interior wise. I will also put it up on par with the E-class and 5-series.
Didn't drive the car since I have no interest in buying one. However, just based on the build quality I have to give a big 'A' to Cadillac.
So, since most often we talk about the European and the Japanese cars, let's stick with that for now. In the future, we can always do a domestic survey if we want to.
TagMan
So you're the only 8 cyl 5er around here? OK so, I need your advice. As you may remember, I have decided on the 5 and now I'm down to choosing the "flavor". I drove 3 back to back today: 535xi,550i with SP, and 535i with SP. All great cars. Actually, fantastic cars, and I am very picky. The xi drove a bit heavier but had a nice suspension. The 535 was bit lighter and felt more agile. I think the roll stabilization can definitely be sensed, and it's a good thing. The 550 has more linear pick up, where the turbos seemed a bit more abrupt, if that's the right description. I think it is the torque that I'm feeling of the 550i. I loved it. I found the sport package very compliant. The dealer had a cancellation so they will cut a good deal on the 550 and I like the color but I have to decide if it's worth the price jump and the switch to winter tires every year. As an aside, I found that the logic 7 in the nav equipped cars was noticably better than the non-nav. They all said "premium sound" on the sticker, but I swear I could tell the difference. Is it possible that the new nav system comes with a better logic 7? I have very good ears for this type of thing.
One must give credit to Chris Bangle's exciting designs for bringing these posters to BMW. It seems every vehicle designer out there has copied Bangle, including the new Accord.
The only one that hasn't copied Bangle is the LS 460, which I mistook the other day for a Hyundai Sonata.
Looks like Hyundai is on a roll. I ALWAYS thought the 3-series looks like a Hyundai Elantra from the back.
Also, sometimes when a Toyota Camry passed by me I could swear it was a 7-series...
I can only imagine that the 550i is even better than the 545i, though I have not driven the former.
I would think with the 535i now as a serious competitor to the 550i, inventory of the 550i must be building up. In that case, I would be bargaining aggressively for the 550i.
I don't like the Camry rear but find the ES 350 rear in red is a looker.
Call me conservative, but I really like the Avalon from the rear. Several folks here have one and they always catch my eye. Not the folks. The cars. Someone just got one in gray. Very nice.
That being said I'll give the best V6 title to Lexus with the 3.5L 2GR-FSE. It is probably as smooth as BMW's 3.0L I6 and better (in smoothness I meant) than the 2TT I6.
Many people in my age group would rather walk than being caught driving an Avalon...
A little exaggeration there but it's not far from the truth.
I found the GS300 more to my liking: steering and brakes were normal.
I like the design of the GS. I think it is one handsome vehicle.
I like many Lexus designs save the LS which I find disappointingly generic.
The IS and GS are my favorites in the sedans. I like the RX in the SUVs. Still think it is the best-looking SUV out there.
Since there is no GS300 anymore so I couldn't get that information from Lexus website. However it is showing that both the GS350 and GS430 are having 13.1" ventilated front and 12.2" ventilated back. It is possible that since the GS350 is much more powerful than the old GS300 it received the bigger brakes though.
As for steering I think you are right, the GS430 does have the Variable Gear-Ratio Steering (VGRS) that the GS350 doesn't have. It might have contributed to the better steering feel.
That ain't right. :lemon:
DrFill
I think LS is the best looking L-finesse design out of the three, follow by the IS but GS looks a little bloated. Not that it's bad looking though.
As for RX, never like the current generation's style. I like the first gen much better. X5 is my favorite SUV design currently on the street.
In the current luxury market I'll take Lexus for sedans, BMW for coupes and midsize SUV, MB for roadster. Large luxury SUV is tied between Land Rover, Lexus and MB.
I saw a new Cayenne the other day. That is one imposing, aggressive-looking beast. My favorite large SUV.
Don't care for the LS design. For that kind of cash, it should stand out more, IMO.
I just cant keep up with Howard. I even tried to mimic his accidental Lexus sale by swaying a member (gs) to buy a Lexus instead of a BMW 328i.
So far I am failing and cant succeed intentionally or accidentally
This may be a shocker but count me as one who prefers German cars.
Many years ago when I drove my first new car (88 Acura) I would have definitely said Japanese. I still remember the excitement of my dream car: the 1990 Acura NSX. Also the prior Toyota Supra model was one very interesting car.
Also I am grateful that the Japanese keep on bringing cars that are very competitive and sometimes even better than some German models. When there was less competition in the luxury segment MB got away with murder by selling such an archaic 70s car like the MB300d up to the mid 80s. Despite that fact I still love driving our 83 MB300D because sitting behind that humungous steering wheel makes me feel like I am reliving the 70s again without the silly bell bottoms.
European = 6
Japanese = 4
I think your Audi A8 model is one great car. Dont be too hasty now..unless ofcourse you buy another A8
To me, European carmakers represent the "Art" and "Craft" of building automobiles. While, of course, they produce cars to sell, I don't feel that they build/design cars by committee, focus groups ad nauseum and are ruled by bean counters. There are familial themes within the brand and all models tend to incorporate that theme. Engineers and drivers rule the day. Each car BMW builds at its core is a driver. Functional interiors with quality materials (but usually not great style). MBs are "bank vault" solid, safe autobahn cruisers/stormers. Luxurious with sporting pretensions. Audi, a blend of the two with a particular pride in crafting interiors. And a champion of AWD. If only the Germans used Japanese electronics, I believe that CR would have big check marks next to all of the German cars!
Saabs and Volvos: Quirky, safe, sensible and utilitarian.
Jaguar: Pace with grace. Were, are and hopefully will be, beautiful. And, thanks Ford! Now reliable with great dealers!
Italians: Inspire lust! Style, fun, power! Maybe not Fiat, but you know the marques to which I refer...
Now, I've owned many Japanese cars with nary a bad word to say. And they have produced some memorable cars (240Z,510, The original Maxima that coined the phrase, "four door sports car," Supra Turbos, Original Acura Legend Coupe, Lexus LS400, SC400, Original Infiniti Q45, the original Mitsu Eclipse AWD/Turbo, others...) but there is a "Relentless pursuit of perfection" that somewhat de-personalizes them. A little more appliance-like. But, from my observation, top-tier reliability and build quality. But not that rock solid feel of the Europeans. And many of their cars are interpretations of the Europeans. To their credit, they try to take the best traits of the cars they are emulating and instill them in their versions (the original Lexus LS400 and, to a lesser extent if I remember, the Q45 just knocked the car mags off their feet. Unexpectedly competent and competitive with the Euros, sedans. And such a bargain!) With varying degrees of success. But they have earned their success, going from the joke of "Made in Japan" label to respected and desirable products "Made in Japan." The perception of "set it and forget it cars." Value, and, they work with a little less fuss and muss than their Euro counterparts.
Domestics: Until somewhat recently, UGH. Back in the '70s, the domestics started building some very bad cars. And then kept building them with different bodies, vinyl roofs and opera windows. Blatant badge engineering. Design by committee, focus group and bean counters. Lowest Common Denominator cars and interior materials. If Ford had spent the money on actual quality (really made quality Job 1)instead of the advertising fallacy of quality, who knows!
Note that my prior ride was a Chrysler 300M. Really enjoyed that car. To me, eye catching style inside and out (although some interior materials were, well, Chrysler...), decent power, nice ride and handling and relatively economical. And big... Build quality? Not great. Reliability? Not bad, some early warranty-covered issues. But not a dime of out of warranty repair costs. My TL, in comparison, significantly better build quality, handling, power and economy. Better interior materials. No issues (other than a couple of rattles fixed under warranty) after 33,000+ miles... With the Acura, it is what I expected. The Chrysler was a pleasant surprise...
OK, I've rambled and doubt I've expressed myself well. Because, as I noted originally, my European vote is an emotional one. Which, if you love cars I suppose is as it should be. Pure logic will generally lead you to an Accord or Camry! And there is not a thing wrong with that...
Sox won. I'm happier and tired.
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
You know, I liked the Lexus salesman so much who tagged along with me on my drives of the GS430 and GS300 a few years back that I recommended someone to him who actually bought a GS430 from him. The salesman sent me an unsolicited check for $100 and a letter of gratitude which I thought was really nice.
European = 7
Japanese = 5
There will probably be some additional posters that will cast a vote tomorrow, so we'll keep this alive for a little longer to give some of the other regular posters a chance to vote, and then we'll see where it goes.
So... I'll check in again tomorrow and re-check the numbers.
TagMan
I am a member of the forums and have enjoyed reading all 6001 posts to this forum (even when it gets a bit ugly) although this is my first post(I have posted in other forums). I currently own 4 cars and will be soon replacing at least 2 of them and probably adding another to the mix, so within the next 6 months I anticipate buying 3 new cars, all of which fit into the profile of this forum.
My vote is
3 Germans
(2006 Audi A8, 2006 Porsche Cayman S, 2001 BMW 330Cic)
1 Japan (Canadian?)
(2003 Acura MDX)
(I also own an American vehicle - Club Car Golf Cart at my Florida home)
I love nice cars and I'll contribute more often to the discussion in the future. I would love to get opinions from you guys on the cars that I'll be replacing soon.
Clembo
I really like what Infiniti has been doing lately, and I expect great things from that company in the years to come. I also think the Nissan GT-R is going to be brilliant, and I really hope that its powertrain ends up in an Infiniti in the future. Acura and Lexus on the other hand haven't impressed me lately... actually no Acura since the Legend has impressed me. The LS460 is very nice... but compared to the massive leap forward of the Mercedes S550, Lexus' claims of "1989 all over again" seem to ring rather hollow. Other than the much more opulent (optional) back seat area, it really isn't that different from the old car.
There hasn't been nearly enough innovation from Lexus since the '99 RX, and perhaps teaming with Mark Levinson, which seemed to inspire the rest of the luxury industry to greatly improve their own stereos. Even Audi is going to beat them to the CUV market and has already beaten them to the full-size unibody market, and Infiniti is beating them in car-tech.
Furthermore, having 2 Lexus already, I thought it is only fair to try some other brand. Keeping my fingers crossed on the reliability of the new addition.
Also, thank you for finally posting. We really need some fresh ideas and input here so welcome to the forum.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
The name "europeanguy" does have some comedic aspects however.!!
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
You want long term dependability then you could not have gotten a better car than a BMW 3 series.BMW as a brand has a rating that is better than most Japanese marques. Even Toyota does not have better reliability than BMW. The icing on the cake is that you are buying the most reliable model of BMW.
LONG TERM DEPENDABILITY STATISTICS
If you bought the car merely because of a lease deal and not because you desired the car more than a competing model than in that case your decision makes cents but little sense. Spending a bit more for a car that you really want in this segment makes sense because once you go beyond a Corolla than focusing only on the cents makes little sense.
I consider Howard the luckiest car driver on earth. Not only does he get good leases but he also gets the deal on the car he really wants. Buying such a car is not only about math but also about driving what you truly desire.
There are a lot of lease deals for the 07 IS250 in Toronto. Follow your heart and buy a Lexus instead. You honestly dont need much rear space for a young child and also you have an RX350. I need the extra rear space of a BMW335i (although that is not the reason why I bought my car) since my oldest daughter who is tall for her age is going to be 9 tomorrow. Dont let rear space deprive you of owning the car you really want especially when such rear space is unnecessary for your particular needs.
Well (for now at least) I'm still driving a LS430. I'm not sure what my next car is going to be, but it probably wont be a Lexus. I still respect the brand though, and there's a possibility that I could go back to the brand at some point in the future, if they every make anything decent out of the SC, for example.
Checkin' in with Uncle Sam here.
There are 2 German cars, 1 Japanese in my stable.
My cars are chosen based on two simple requirements:
1 - The reliable workhorse
2 - Fun
Voting for Japanese cars would be like voting to paint my house rather than go on vacation (which I've done, by the way.)
EURO! (cranks voting lever)
Is there another dealer in the area who can get you the car to you liking faster? I'm sure they'd love to hear from you.
DrFill
Imagine: sending me a $100 check because he sold a car to a guy I steered in his direction.
Reminds me of Lou Gehrig's famous farewell speech at Yankee Stadium on July 4th, 1939: "Today, I consider myself the luckiest car buyer on the face of the earth."
I will consider myself lucky, Dewey, if my 545i lease ends next summer at the exact same time the 335d becomes available for me to lease.
The soon-to-be luckiest car lessee on the face of this earth
Yes, but reliability and the turbo is still an unknown. Posts like this in the 5-series forum make me raise an eyebrow with regard to the long term:
"Have you read some of the recent posts on BITOG concerning direct injection engines and oil life? I've had an interest in the topic ever since I picked up my Mazdaspeed3. From what I've read, it looks like many of the new DI engines are showing moderate to high levels of fuel dilution in the oil. The worst offenders appear to be the BMW N54 twin turbo, the Audi RS4 4.2L V8, and the Mazda DISI 2.3L turbo- in that order. Terry Dyson is reporting that the N54 will pretty much destroy Mobil 1 0w-40 in only 1000 miles. He states:
"I just worked a 07 335 Biturbo yesterday USING ASTM lab tests on the used oil and M1 0w40 went from VOA flash of 430+F to 280 F in 1150 miles, oil sheared to 12.1 cSt and fuel was at 1.99% by IR."
Now granted, this is data from only one forum and one expert's opinion, but it is something to consider. Combine the fuel dilution with the high oil temperatures seen on the N54 and I'm thinking that these engines may not last much over 100K -if that long- especially if the oil changes only take place at 15K intervals. And, while neither manufacturer requires the use of synthetic oil, Mazda calls for 5K changes on the DISI and Subaru has just announced that a 3.7K OCI is mandatory for all of their turbo motors."
BTW, my wife and I had an opportunity to drive the 335i extensively and we love it. The power is fabulous and the handling is as tight as a drum of course. However I'd be waiting on the diesels if the car needs to be a marathon runner. I would also consider the 328i instead. If you're leasing for 3 years then you've got it sussed of course.
After the previous night's loss, was that early 3-run hole last night the lowest point this year or what? I thought the cops were gonna have to come in and remove Willie's belt and take the razor blades out of his locker.
They have their own little playoff series going on this next week.
I may go car shopping later today I need to replace the MDX that my wife uses. I am thinking of a 2008 MDX as the size is perfect for us, but I know that many of you guys have had differing opinions. I agree that it is cheesy for Acura to have fake wood in this car but it still seems hard to beat.
I may also stop by the Audi dealer to get a lease quote on a new S8 as my A8 is up in February - I always enjoy Hemi's comments regarding his Audi's. I may test drive a Lexus 460 as this car has generated enough comments on this board that I should at least consider it before automatically going German.
By default, with owning now 3 German rides(335i, A8L W12, S8) and 1 Brit(XKR), is there any reason to state the obvious?
EUROS all the way!
But to some credit, I have to go back to some early posts about the domestic side of things.
My Corvettes and collectors 40's, 50's, 60's, and early 70's all- American Iron has to be noted. I love them all.
But, some of the Sox young 'uns are looking fairly interesting...
While I will never lower myself to chant, and I'll paraphrase here, "Yankess create a large vacuum!!!" I shall never be a fan. Grew up a Mets fan (still my NL team), moved to Boston and caught the disease. But not the accent...
I continue to be awed by, and jealous of, the multi-car owners here... Why must I be such a Scrooge McDuck and horde all my shiny pennies for a rainy day when I could be driving a shiny XK on a beautiful sunny day (such as today! Perfect droptop weather here)? A mind is a terrible thing.
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
The Phillies will have to deal with Smoltz and Hudson next week. We'll be fine.
We'll make it to The Dance, and Wagner will blow a game when we get thur, and we'll lose in six. :sick:
I HATE being right all of the time! :mad:
The Yankees won't make it through the Red Sox and Angles. They better hope they get the Indians (they play them well).
DrFill
European = 11
Japanese = 5
I'm on a mobile right now so I'll follow up later!
TagMan
1. If there is a lease special (the kind offered on the Audi or MB websites), is there generally room for negotiation down from the posted pricing?
2. If a lease special is for $x/month, for a car with MSRP of lets say $90k, but I want a car with optioned up to an MSRP of $99k (or 1.1 times the standard car), can I assume that I'll be able to lease for $1.1x per month, with the other terms such as down payment also adjusted by 1.1 times?
3. If I want to special order a car, will I generally be able to get the special lease rates?