Luxury Lounge

1127128130132133428

Comments

  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Americans are not easily fooled

    LOL. Believe what you want, but the multi-billion advertising industry says otherwise, and so do a lot of politicians.

    Public perception in the U.S. is that CR is squeaky clean

    Sure, and that recent child seat mess-up means nothing at all... afterall, they are perceived as "squeaky clean", as you say. LOL.

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    the same magazine that ranked McDonalds Coffee as better than Starbucks

    OMG, Dewey, I could have been getting better coffee at McDonalds all this time and didn't realize it!! If only I had subscribed to Consumer Reports! Darn. What should I do with my Starbucks card now? :surprise:

    Yep, just like houdini said... CR's reputation is perceived as squeaky clean and has earned it. :lemon: :sick:

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Car buffs and caffeine addicts are alike in knowing better than taking a Consumers Report seriously.

    Well said.

    I think CR needs to take a trip to Maui and get a taste of their Starbucks Kona blend. THAT will fix 'em up! Then they could drink it with the Egg McMuffin they probably also love from their visit to McDonalds. ;)

    TagMan
  • sysweisyswei Member Posts: 1,804
    The biggest mpg saving with the Lexus is the engine turning off in traffic

    Regenerative braking is also very important, I'm not sure I've seen anything saying which is more important.

    Short trips are murder on the mpg.

    True of non-hybrid gas engines, too, speaking from experience. I'm not sure if it is more true of hybrids.

    the transmission is a variable drive one, sort of like the old go carts that just go faster and faster if you give it the throttle...It sounds nice and is nice if you like it....I didn`t

    I have to admit, I haven't test driven a hybrid! The sedans give up too much trunk space, while the SUVs are either too small or not luxurious enough for me. Eventually they'll improve to the point where I might test and buy one.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Here's a cute poke at Toyota from Honda's ad agency. I kind of like it. Here's a link to the video. The first video is the original Toyota Prius ad, the second video is the one Honda made in response.

    honda-makes-fun-of-toyota-prius-in-this video commercial

    image

    Good old cheese-wedge Prius. :P

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Here we are again with more ongoing efforts by Toyota, the largest part of the Auto Alliance, to kill state efforts (this time it is Vermont) to set vehicle emissions standards. Toyota's continued efforts certainly tell the truth about what they really stand for, contrary to public perception.

    WASHINGTON -- Automakers are headed back to court over attempts by states to set their own greenhouse gas emissions rules for vehicles.

    A federal judge in Vermont upheld that state’s California-style rules on Sept. 12.

    The Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers said today that it has filed a notice of appeal in Vermont. The appeal will go to the 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, which includes New York and Connecticut.

    The alliance represents the Detroit 3, Toyota and five other automakers.


    Source: Automotive News

    Now... to set the record straight, and prove that there is no bias on my part to post this, I want to make sure that we all understand that the "other" five members of the Alliance are Mazda, Mitsubishi, Porsche, VW, and BMW. With Porsche, VW, and BMW, as members, it might be asked why would I make such a post... and why do I focus more on Toyota?

    Firstly, Toyota is the world's largest automaker, and with that distinction comes a greater responsibility to demonstrate leadership and set the highest standards. We don't see Honda, for example, as a member of the alliance. Their efforts at being "green" are genuine at all levels.

    Also, as I often mention, the public's perception of Toyota (due to their hybrids) is that Toyota stands for "green", when in fact, Toyota is hard at work attempting to tear apart "green" standards. The public's perception of the "other" manufacturers in the Alliance is not a very "green" perception. Porsche and BMW, for example, are publicly perceived for their performance. There is not a disceprency between what the company portrays to the public and what they actually stand for, as there is with Toyota.

    When it comes to the "Detroit 3", we already all know that they have a long history at making attempts to undermine safety standards, emission standards, and fuel economy standards... claiming it couldn't be done, or it would add too much to the cost of each vehicle, and other excuses.

    It's a shame that Toyota doesn't take the same position as Honda. With all of Toyota's clout, they could make a more positive effort behind the scenes, instead of what they now do... which is, in part, to undermine "green" standards and clear the way for themselves to sell lots of highly-profitable gas-guzzling Tundra trucks.

    Anyway, those are some reasons why I am most critical of Toyota's position within the Alliance.

    TagMan
  • sysweisyswei Member Posts: 1,804
    I hadn't realized until recently that the Highlander Hybrid grew significantly for 2008. It offers nearly the interior room of a GL.

    ...........2008 Highlander hybrid.....2008 GL320 CDI

    passenger volume...145.4 cu ft.....143 cu ft

    cargo vol (3 rows)......10.3 cu ft......16 cu ft

    total....................155.7 cu ft.....159 cu ft

    mpg combined..........26 mpg........20 mpg

    0-60..................8.1 sec.......9.5 sec

    In summary, the 2008 Highlander hybrid offers 2% less interior room, but gets 30% better mpg and accelerates 15% faster.

    If someone needs more room, there's the 2008 Yukon and Tahoe hybrids....much roomier than the GL, and still getting 20 mpg.

    I plan to replace my LX470 soon, but unfortunately none of the vehicles is going to be suitable. Highlander and GMC not luxurious/prestegious enough. MB not reliable enough, and not legal in CT. :cry:
  • atlas7atlas7 Member Posts: 126
    As far as unbiased sources go, IMO CR is superior to the car mags out there. But, also, CR is just another data point. IMO, a very reliable one, but it is not the end all and be all. It's one data point among many...
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    I was really disappointed in the GL when my wife and I tested it a few weeks ago. It did not have the kind of ride I had hoped for. It will be 50-state legal next year, but at this point, I don't care for it anyway. A real letdown. Beautifully appointed, however... but a terrible ride, IMO.

    I actually had considered the new Highlander (believe it or not, even as a hybrid!.. which shows how open-minded I can be...LOL), until I saw how ugly it is. If it weren't for it's horrid appearance, it would make a good SUV choice.

    I don't know if it makes the same strange noise as the '07 hybrid Highlander does when coming to a full stop, due to something in the hybrid mechanism, apparently.

    I am in the same boat as a number of posters here... looking for a nice, fuel-efficient, SUV. I am considering the Tiguan diesel which will be 50-state legal in the spring, as I understand it. But it is not very luxurious... kind of half way there. The one I am waiting for is the GLK diesel. This one will be built in Germany only, not utilizing the GL/ML plant in Alabama.

    Have you considered the MDX? Other than the fake wood, it is quite a machine and very reliable. My wife has the last of the '06 generation, and it's been incredible... and the newest one is even better according to all the reports.

    What about the new LX570?

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    That's a reasonable perspective, IMO... although I still think the car mags tend to provide better data, but also tend to be too subjective at times.

    I have often posted that the more sources of info available, the more of a concensus can be derived, and that is how I typically tend to view information.

    When the new Lexus LS came out, there were such polarized written reviews and opinions of the car, I didn't know who to believe... so I tested the car myself and now I know first-hand what it really is, at least for me, that is.

    TagMan
  • sysweisyswei Member Posts: 1,804
    Have you considered the MDX? Other than the fake wood, it is quite a machine and very reliable. My wife has the last of the '06 generation, and it's been incredible... and the newest one is even better according to all the reports.

    What about the new LX570?


    I considered the MDX but ruled it out due to the fake wood and middling prestige. BTW when I bought my first car in 1992 (a Toyota) I could have cared less about prestige, and thought those who did care were a little weird or felt insecure about themselves. How things have changed!

    The LX570 is right now the most likely choice, even though it guzzles. I have been measuring the actual mpg of our 2000 LX over the past month. She has gotten 15.4mpg, even though EPA puts that model at 13 with the 2008 method. Based on the 2008 TLC, the LX570 I think will get EPA 15 (I guess due to a more modern engine, more speeds to the tranny, better aerodynamics), so she might get 17 in an LX570. At 25k miles/yr and $4/gal, that would be $5900 in gas per year.

    I wish Lexus would come out with a version of the Highlander hybrid, and soon, but I don't think there are any rumors to that effect.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    I wish Lexus would come out with a version of the Highlander hybrid, and soon, but I don't think there are any rumors to that effect.

    Why wait when there alread is a Lexus version of the Highlander Hybrid. It is called a Lexus RX400H?

    The next generation RX will be based on the same platform as the new Highlander.
  • sysweisyswei Member Posts: 1,804
    Why wait when there alread is a Lexus version of the Highlander Hybrid. It is called a Lexus RX400H?

    The current RX400h isn't large enough for my needs.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Starbucks Kona blend

    I love my coffe bold, bitter, burnt and black. Costs me no more than a buck and change in Starbucks. I was never a fan of foamy milk, whipped cream, caramel and cimamon in my coffee. Those things corrupt the true flavor of a coffee bean.
  • sysweisyswei Member Posts: 1,804
    I'm not a drinker, but I've heard some addicts say that Dunkin Donuts coffee is better than Starbucks. Any comments?
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    I love my coffe bold, bitter, burnt and black. Costs me no more than a buck and change in Starbucks. I was never a fan of foamy milk, whipped cream, caramel and cimamon in my coffee. Those things corrupt the true flavor of a coffee bean.

    I get Starbucks standard bold drip, and sometimes bring my own Thermos, so it stays hot throughout the morning. They charge me 1.70 to fill up the Thermos!

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Any comments?

    It's NOT! It's terrible, IMO.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    The current RX400h isn't large enough for my needs.

    There will be a long wheelbase version of the next RX available, but I don't know if it includes the hybrid... although I would expect it to.

    TagMan
  • sysweisyswei Member Posts: 1,804
    Well, one strategy for us is, instead of getting 2 new cars in 2008, we could replace just the RX with a luxury large sedan, and wait to replace the LX470 when something more desirable than the LX570 appears. I'm tempted to say a diesel hybrid, but my guess is that the wait for that (at least, a reliable one) would be too long for us. We shall see. Possibly a streched next-gen RX, assuming it has a 3rd row, but I'm not sure the prestige factor will be enough for us.
  • sysweisyswei Member Posts: 1,804
    My thinking is to buy whichever appears first.....AWD LS460L, subsidized leases on the S550 4matic, subsidized leases on the A8L. I had thought that one of the latter 2 might happen before Lexus came through, but with the strong euro, I'm now having my doubts.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Possibly a streched next-gen RX, assuming it has a 3rd row, but I'm not sure the prestige factor will be enough for us.

    I don't know whether or not the prestige factor will be enough for you, but I do know that it is reported to have third-row seating in the extended wheelbase version. :)

    edit: I forgot to mention that if your wife doesn't improve upon the EPA rating of 15 on the LX570, and only achieves the rated mileage... at 25K miles per year, and your $4/gal estimate, your annual gasoline bill would be $6,666!

    TagMan
  • jlbljlbl Member Posts: 1,333
    There is an interesting commentary (post 2144, roadburner) in the BMW 5-Series Sedans. :)

    Jose
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Jose, Thanks!

    I guess we should all pray for a 335d to come to our shores. I kind of doubt we would see a 135d here.

    (BTW, post number is 12144)

    TagMan
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    I'm not a drinker, but I've heard some addicts say that Dunkin Donuts coffee is better than Starbucks. Any comments?

    Never had it since I hardly ever see a Dunkin Donuts in Toronto. And when I am in USA I go to Starbucks or to a place that serves the Italina brand of coffeee called illy.
    Tim Hortons Donuts coffee is considered a national drink in Canada. I dont mean to sound unpatriotic but I had it once and I never had it again.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    I already saw a few MB S450 4Matics here in Toronto.

    Maybe such a model will be sold in USA soon?
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    The future generation 5 series diesel model is on my radar screen. I hope that there will be a diesel touring wagon version of such a car.
  • sysweisyswei Member Posts: 1,804
    I already saw a few MB S450 4Matics here in Toronto.

    Thanks for letting me know. And only 0.3 sec slower to 100kph. I'll cross my fingers and hope it comes to the US real soon, and with a subsidized lease.

    Maybe one day I'll call myself a germancarfan. ;)

    And you're going to buy a Lexus hybrid, right?
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    And you're going to buy a Lexus hybrid, right?

    When hybrid Lexuses are powered with more potent lithium ion batteries with suitable trunk space than why not?

    A hybrid does suits my driving more than a diesel. But I will continue to enjoy our debates even when I switch to the Lexus team and you switch to the MB team. ;)
  • sysweisyswei Member Posts: 1,804
    When hybrid Lexuses are powered with more potent lithium ion batteries with suitable trunk space than why not?

    Are you looking for an SUV or sedan?
  • sysweisyswei Member Posts: 1,804
    Now that I've checked, I notice that the RX400h AWD gets the same combined mpg as the E320 Bluetec (and much better city mpg, which if I recall is your concern). Plus it is AWD whereas the Bluetec doesn't come that way.

    And it is roomier. And it doesn't give up trunk space as compared to the RX350 ICE.

    Not a bad choice, depending on what you are looking for. With SUVs, there isn't a compelling reason to wait for lithium, imho.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Since the GL doesn't suite my wife, the extended RX400h could be a consideration if the rear seats fold flat, because up until now, Lexus has had those flip-flop third row seats. Hopefully it won't be as ugly as the Highlander.

    Now THAT would be a real stretch for me to consider a hybrid like that, but that is one vehicle that could possibly make sense for her...not me. For me, I'm waiting to trade-in the GTI on a GLK diesel...unless it turns out to be undesireable, in which case BMW might have something.

    Edit: Just imagine TagMan spending any money at all on a Lexus, and a hybrid at that! :surprise: :)
    What in the world is happening here? :confuse:

    TagMan
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    Regarding your constant harping on Toyota joining forces with the vast majority of automakers, working against state-by-state emissions standards, please explain to me how this helps automakers to have different standards in every state? :confuse:

    It's pretty clear this is a battle over not the emissions, but the implementation of them.

    As previously mentioned, Toyota's CAFE standards are indeed extra green, the bulk of their business not being truck dependent helps. It will be many years before Tundra has a true influence over their CAFE or overall environmental impact. You've failed to prove otherwise. :P

    To boot, If anyone should have earned the benefit of the doubt on such an issue, it is Toyota. I must've missed the meeting where it was decided that the automakers are 100% wrong on this issue. :confuse:

    DrFill
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    That's just an excuse. Because they are all generally derivatives of the same California standards, which whould then in-effect become the national standard, and the Feds aren't willing to place that particular standard in effect due to the special interest groups and lobbying efforts. When it boils down to it, the Alliance has the same motivation.

    For YEARS the manufacturers have fought even the Feds when ever there was some new regulation regarding fuel economy or emissions or safety... always the excuse being that it isn't possible or that it would cost too much. but in the end, it always became possible, and didn't cost too much, and the public was benefited... such as front airbags and side airbag curtains.

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    As previously mentioned, Toyota's CAFE standards are indeed extra green

    That would change with increased Tundra sales. And besides, if that's really the case, then Toyota shouldn't be fighting on the side to undermine better standards. They would better servei themselves and the public to stnad up for the improved standards.

    There was a Federal level case before this one, and the Alliance had their bag full of excuses then, too.

    TagMan
  • sysweisyswei Member Posts: 1,804
    Since the GL doesn't suite my wife, the extended RX400h could be a consideration if the rear seats fold flat, because up until now, Lexus has had those flip-flop third row seats.

    In the 2008 HH the 3rd row folds flat, so I assume a streched RX would offer that. In the LX470 the 3rd row doesn't, and won't in the LX570, because Lexus wanted to keep true off-roading capability, meaning as I understand it a live rear axle that takes too much room to allow for fold flat 3rd row seating.
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    Looks like the vocal majority here is eager to discount a Japanese sweep by a independent party.

    C&D rolled over for the S-Class. And habitually follow the 3-series lead, even when they can't complete a test.

    Now the other shoe has dropped, and CR happens to love the Japanese. Clutch the pearls! :surprise:

    The BlueTec got some love. The GS450h didn't exactly shine. And they backed up many assertions by other publications against the GS, in general.

    Just because they said Infiniti offers a better car than either the 535 or E-Class, and the S-Class is roadkill compared to the LS, dismissing the test is a cop-out. :cry:

    DrFill
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    I believe you are right about that. Probably because the LX570 is based on a TLC, and the GX is based on a 4-Runner.

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    I don't know what you are talking about. CR has ALWAYS loved the Japanese, and it was YOU who cried foul when the first Car & Driver review of the LS460 came out and it wasn't all that good. You and ljflx and others essentially said the magazine was trash because you didn't like their test results.

    I have always argued for concensus. I am on record a long ways back with that perspective. It is important to take ALL the reviews into consideration, and not just cherry pick.

    TagMan
  • sysweisyswei Member Posts: 1,804
    The LX570 btw has a third row that will fold up to the sides (like the LX470) but it will do so electrically. Problem is, this probably means they won't be removable from the vehicle, at least not easily removable.
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    As I've mentioned before, Toyota would be the one least affected by these standards, and they deserve the benefit of the doubt because of that. :)

    And backing up a crippled Domestic initiative isn't exactly a bad idea, at this point in time. It business, nothing personal.

    These issues aren't so black and white, Tag. ;)

    DrFill
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    The LX570 btw has a third row that will fold up to the sides (like the LX470) but it will do so electrically. Problem is, this probably means they won't be removable from the vehicle, at least not easily removable.

    But it does make them safer. The last ones nearly took off the finger of the salesman that was demonstrating them to my wife... as the seat fell on his hand right at the latch.

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Doc, you don't see Honda in the Alliance. Gotta respect them.

    Being a member is not a requirement.

    It's whether or not you want to lobby the government and try to get your way through lawsuits and other tactics. Toyota doesn't need to do it that way. They should take a leadership role to do the right thing, and not just cozy up to the other manufacturers for their own self-serving goals.

    TagMan
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    Hey, my point was the Lexus wasn't the worst car in the test. If it goes from the best car, to the worst car, after it is redesigned, they need to make a case for that.

    C&D has had a poor recent history with those tests, and CR has not been as subjective, or contadictory, in testing. They've jobbed the Mazda3 and the IS/G35 within the last year as well.

    But now everybody has a win to hang their hat on! :shades:

    We all know which win really counts, don't we? :blush:

    DrFill
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    :lemon:

    Last I checked, Honda is certainly not Toyota, nor can walk in their shoes. Life is easy when you don't sell trucks. And Toyota is still pretty much an equal to them, environmentally. :)

    If you mean doing business in this country, than Toyota may indeed, be self-serving. Guilty as charged!

    Now Toyota has to play holier-than-thou? For who? We all know they may be, but that's not the point...... ;)

    You act like you know the issue with this backwards and forwards. I don't profess as much.

    DrFill
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    Nice post on HLH/GL CDI. Competition is sweet! :shades:

    DrFill
  • sysweisyswei Member Posts: 1,804
    My reading of the MB Canada site is that it appears that the ONLY equipment differences between the S450 4matic and S550 4matic are the engine displacement and 18" rather than 19" wheels. Yet the price difference is loonie 15k!

    Maybe there is some mistake, because my recollection of the previous generation S430 and S500 in the US is that there were considerable equipment differences, and once an S430 was optioned up to S500 levels, the price difference was only $4k or so.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    You act like you know the issue with this backwards and forwards.

    Not as much as I did when the whole mess flared up to begin with here in California. At that time I did actually research the entire matter, and you may recall I posted some of the facts surrounding the case on the forum. Since then, I've not stayed up on it as much, so I don't know every twist and turn, but I do know the original motivations... and some of the recent news reports that I've read in Automotive News, because I subscribe to the publication.

    I can assure you of one thing... since you bring up the issue of state vs. fed. I guarantee you that if the states were seeking EASIER standards, the Alliance would be on the state's side. ;)

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    We all know which win really counts, don't we?

    I know your pick! ;)

    But, what it really means, IMO, Doc, is that anyone is free to choose their own winner.

    That's why lately I've been calling it "preference"... like with the hybrid and diesel powertrain "preference". I kept saying it wasn't about which one was better, but which one was "preferred". Anyway, that's history now :)

    Sometimes, there are winners, however. When tests on cars are specific collections of exact data and there are no subjective components to the comparisons, there can be a "winner", but even then, sometimes the data can vary depending upon the driver and the conditions. so, it is very difficult to establish a winner... except on a race track, of course. ;)

    TagMan
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    http://blog.toyota.com/2007/10/post.html

    Just because they can clear the bar doesn't mean that the bar is at the right height. ;)

    DrFill
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    This, in the article...

    The answer is simple: It’s because there’s a point at which the bar is set too high for all competitors.

    So.... Toyota thinks that their competition can't keep up and they are doing them a favor!! Baloney, IMO.

    Firstly, the bar being proposed isn't at all very high that Toyota is fighting against, anyway. It's not like the bar that's being proposed is at a level to accomplish anything even close to Prius-level averages. Secondly, it's awful smug and arrogant to think that others can't compete.

    That's a well-written blog by TOYOTA, in TOYOTA's best interest... but some of the commentaries that follow are more realistic.

    BTW, Doc, did you see Ross's interception from Pennington?

    TagMan
Sign In or Register to comment.

Your Privacy

By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our Visitor Agreement.