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Comments
But a small Sport ute like a diesel Honda CRV would IMO be one compelling package.
The gas CRV is nothing special IMO since based on a recent review I read the CRV got equal mileage to a V6 Toyota RAV 4. In that case I'd rather buy a V6 RAV4 than a CRV.
Spoken like a Toyota salesman. Now you're cookin' with gas!
CR-V seems to have the female market all but sown up. Can't win them all.
DrFill
What IS blue collar among pickups are the class 8 wannabes from Dodge and all the 3/4 variants such as the Chev 2500 and the Ford F250 with SuperDuty stamped into both the hood as well as the tail gate just so your friends won't forget. These, like Budweiser, are for the blue collar elite.
I vote for the Sierra's styling too. The only truck who's styling doesn't work for me is the Silverado. Looks like a wide-mouth bass!
DrFill
So Doc what is the point of spending the extra bucks on a Highlander especially a hybrid Highlander when you can get better mileage with a 3 row V6 RAV4 ?
An associate of mine owns a new RAV4. It's a good vehicle for the money, and it delivers a very good performance/fuel-economy ratio, IMO.
From a styling standpoint, it's basically non-offensive generic... easy enough on the eye to accept it's significant value.
The adrenaline comes from under it's hood, provided it's the V6 model.
TagMan
Nissan will always have a special place in my heart: Can you say 240Z? I knew you could...
Actually, '74 260Z 2+2. And, get ready for it, automatic! Hey, my Dad bought it, I had no say and wasn't old enough to drive anyway. I did learn to drive in a '71 Saab 99 four speed standard and drove an assortment of sticks 'till the fancy Camry Wagon replaced the '95 Saab 900 stick in '02...
Interestingly, the 260Z replaced an enormous (IIRC) 1956 Mercedes 300C four door convertible. It wasm I believe, a European model as the speedo was only in KPH. And it had a Dictophone! A pilot (military?) bought it in Germany and shipped it to Los Estados Unidos. Convertible stack was so tall, the rear view mirror flipped up above the windshield like a periscope!
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
Reg cab short box 4x4 loaded up...they are a sharp looking truck.
Would love to find a SUV...nothing out there i like.I had the new Tiguan on my list (hopefully with a diesel)..but like you already mentioned, the current crop of pics being published, it looks to bland and generic...but will check one out next year...maybe too late by then.The only other consideration is the Volvo XC60.
Everyone is playing it safe SUV wise...boring,bland,generic.
I'm in here reading the posts all the time.I get tired of the vehicle "A" is better than vehicle "B" debates..its all personal tastes....which i guess is a good thing.
GMC SIERRA WITH TOP-OF-THE-LINE DENALI TRIM:
CHEVROLET SILVERADO WITH GENUINE GM CHEVY TRIM
The GMC is certainly very nice with its stately grill, but I still prefer the appearance of the Silverado more. The Toyota is just horrible, IMO. Sorry, Doc.
I agree with donthegreek here!!... I also hate the Tundra's looks.
Take a good look at that Silverado... it's just right!!
TagMan
Seems we do. The vehicle A is better than vehicle B thing... it's more about preferences, Don, not which is better... and that makes it more realistic, IMO.
TagMan
'06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet • '04 Lexus RX330
Make sure you check out the Audi Q5 TDI if it's available here, too... it may have DSG.
On a completely irrelevant note. I am still having a hard time with my wife's car. She changes her mind every other day, and I'm getting more and more sick of the RX330. We're going to test drive the (deep breath) 535xi, E350 4Matic, possible E320 Bluetec, X5 4.8i, Cayenne S, possible S550 4Matic and even the Audi A8. I'm thinking the S550 (too big), Cayenne (guzzles gas, not as fun as X5) and E320 Bluetec (RWD) will be cut from that list by the end of the week.
'06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet • '04 Lexus RX330
'06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet • '04 Lexus RX330
TagMan
TagMan
It IS lethal!! I got caught up in a powerful sprint earlier this evening with a 5-series BMW, and he could not catch me!!! (he must have had the smaller engine!...LOL) Anyway, it was fun... Later, he met up with me where I was stopped at a red light, and he just waved... at least he was a good sport. And thank goodness, no ticket!
That 2.0L FSI Turbo is a great little engine... especially with that DSG!
TagMan
All I know is I'd rather be better, than look better. :shades:
Tundra. Sierra. Silvy, for me
DrFill
The problem with the Rav4 is it's drivability is relatively low. The Highlander just drives better. It's more polished and finished.
And the 3rd row seat in the Rav4 is a joke. But a nice marketing tool.
DrFill
the age of the average Lexus buyer is sneaking up. Currently it's at 51 years old, while kids who spent the 1980s learning hair metal riffs on their B.C. Rich are choosing Infiniti, Audi, BMW, or even the somewhat fusty Mercedes. If you were at Yasgur's farm with your Microbus, chances are that you've got a lust to wheel around in an ES350 for your retirement years. The average age of that car's buyers is 61, and only Cadillac, Lincoln, and Jaguar have more buyers north of 60 in this segment. This data has Toyota's fancy division rethinking their future plans, lest they be left in the dust
Lexus Solution
While Lexus may not release a direct competitor, they're keeping a close watch on how BMW launches its 1-series. The way BMW woos buyers is what Lexus has to do, according to Jim Farley, who recently left for Ford. Younger buyers are looking for edgier cars with a higher degree of technology integration, so Lexus must make a serious run at building a real performer with the IS-F, as well as push design and image.
link title
But they do see the downsides, and maybe working on addressing that, and that non-complacent attitude is good, and healthy.
#2: When you go for a true luxury demographic, you won't find many younger buyers.
BMW and Lexus couldn't be more different. BMW buyers are younger and more driver-oriented. Lexus buyers are older, and more comfort-conscious.
Neither approach is better or worse, just different. They both have succeeded.
I think they both would like a page out of the other's book, doh.
Building the IS and GS into true sport-sedans would help. But I'm not holding my breath.
DrFill
Have the IS, GS, and any coupes follow a more sporting philosophy.
Have the ES, LS, and any sedan above cater to the true luxury buyers. I would move the LS up to the $80k+ class, and fit in a sedan above the GS.
And have the SUV division work together to have vehicles that compliment each other, and the market.
Just my thought. Won't happen, but with 100k+ between the three segments, they may want to approach the markets with more focus, and unique marketing initiatives.
DrFill
cant argue with what you are saying.
But Lexus does have an ace up their sleeves for younger buyers. The younger people are the more swayed they are about environmental issues. Lexus is the only luxury marque with the experience of marketing enviro-green friendly luxury autos. At least they have their foot in the door while BMW, MB and all the others are racing just to reach the entrance.
Have the IS, ES, and any coupes follow a more sporting philosophy.
I think you meant GS not ES. A sporting philosophy for a ES is like a sporting philosophy for a Cadillac DeVille (DTS). :lemon:
http://www.egmcartech.com/2007/10/16/nissan-gt-r-revealed-on-the-cover-of-motor-- trend/
DrFill
While true, Mercedes and particularly BMW are not far off from entering the arena, and if my hunch is correct, Mercedes will do it conservatively and technically well, but BMW will shock the marketplace with something outstanding.
While no one manufacturer bats 1,000, I never sell BMW short... and have very high confidence in them over the long haul.
And there is NO doubt that you also have high confidence in them as well!
TagMan
Doc, the GT-R as pictured is outstanding and awesome!!!
Why, do you believe it should be an Infiniti? Just curious about your thinking on this.
TagMan
Here is the shocker:
According to JD Power, in fact, the IS has the youngest profile in its segment and the same looks to be true for the GS.
From JD Power, % buyers 16-35/36-55/56+ years old:
Lexus IS - 44/42/14
BMW 3 - 35/46/20
Acura TL - 36/44/20
Infiniti G - 35/50/15
Lexus GS - 22/50/28
BMW 5 - 8/66/26
Acura RL - 8/43/49
Infiniti M - 13/53/34
(Data for 2007 models, except 2008 for BMW 5 Series)
link title
Essentially CR has knocked Toyota from #1 to #5 in reliability.
I know some folks do not have a high opinion of CR's research (I would describe their methodology as shaky in getting a representative sample) but it should still be news that Toyota would have quality issues showing up.
This is not a 'knock on Toyota' post, but I think this is worth discussion....
article
Car buyers' median age by brand:
Division Median age
Rolls-Royce 62.9
Lincoln 62.8
Buick 60.8
Mercedes 58.7
Chrysler 56.4
Mercury 55.1
Cadillac 53.4
Jaguar 49.8
Lexus 49.4
BMW 46.1
Ferrari 45.6
Hummer 45.6
Acura 45.3
GMC 44.4
Saab 44.4
Pontiac 43.4
Porsche 43.4
Dodge 42.9
Chevrolet 42.7
Honda 41.9
Toyota 41.9
Infiniti 41.6
Mitsubishi 41.3
Volvo 40.3
Ford 39.7
Land Rover 38.9
VW 38.7
Jeep 37.6
Nissan 35.1
Mazda 34.6
Suzuki 33.2
Isuzu 32.7
Subaru 31.7
Saturn 30.9
Hyundai 29.8
Kia 28.1
TagMan
What it DOES mean is that, on a per model basis, the Lexus IS sales break down to a larger percentage of younger buyers than the BMW 3 series sales when broken down into groups.
In terms of total units sold, however, there are certainly more total 3-series cars than IS cars being sold to that youngest group!
TagMan
While exceptions will always exist, on a statistical average basis, there would be a percentage of Lexus buyers that didn't really make a choice, but simply couldn't afford the Mercedes.
In addition, this is still a result of the "value" mindset of the Lexus and it's lower price tag in general within the similar category of vehicle.
TagMan
From The Passionate Pursuit:
The median age of people who bought a Mercedes C-Class in the first quarter this year was 47, according to data gleaned from J.D. Power & Associates Power Information Network, which parses dealership sales from around the country. By contrast, the average age of a buyer of BMW’s 3-Series cars was 42, while Lexus’ buyers for the IS averaged 41 years of age. The compact premium category average age is 45, per the consultancy.
Source: Debunking the Lexus Age Myth
Again, no spinning here.
Consumer Reports said it no longer recommends V6 versions of Toyota's Camry or V8 versions of its Tundra pick-up because of poor reliability.
Whoever said excitement has to be unreliable
European manufacturers showed some of the biggest improvements in overall brand rankings. Porsche rose 20 places since last year's survey to finish ninth, for example. Meanwhile, Mini rose 16 places and Jaguar rose 17.
CONCLUSION: ALL THE ABOVE IS BUNK.
I dont believe reliability fluctuates at such whiplash levels. Porsche rose 20 levels? I dont believe it. I believe Porsches(except the Cayenne) were always reliable and it just turns out that these year's statistics are finally accurate.
What the...
:P
I have news for you:
Gray hair and wallet sizes tend to be highly correlated. MB's are still renowned as being a top end Luxury Marque and many of the more expensive models tend to be bought by elder gentlemen and ladies.
I was just realizing that when reading your post and the information you provided, there was the definate possibility for misinterpretation, so I simply nipped it in advance, and provided some extra clarity.
Nothing wrong with that clarity and accuracy... from what I can see, we've ALL been on that same page here lately... keeping our opinions and preferences seperated from raw data.
OK NOW?
TagMan
You wouldn't get an argument from me with that.
So it's settled, Lexus doesn't have an aging customers problem, neither does MB since gray hair and wealth tend to be highly correlated.
That we can agree on? No?
Seriously, As I posted , and Dewey has also posted, there is a definate correlation between the demographics and the affordability factor. We've had this discussion last year, and it went all wrong, because there is a statistical extrapolation that can be made to suggest that Lexus buyers can't afford a Mercedes, and that's not true. The actual truth is that there is, in fact, only a percentage of Lexus buyers that cannot afford a Mercedes.
As the age demographics go lower and lower, the overall average affordability factor, with variations within each demographic of course, reduces with the age.
Overall, on average, the kids can buy the cheaper cars, and the elders can get the nicest marques.
Eventually, the "super-seniors" can't do anything.
TagMan
But the real reason why a percentage of Lexus buyers that cannot afford a MB is because MBs still cost more than their Lexus counterparts. It has nothing to do with with MB's average buyer age.
Same thing goes for Ferrari vs MB. I am pretty sure there is a percentage of MB buyers who can't afford a Ferrari since a Ferrari cost way more. However, I'll bet that the average buyer age of Ferrari is younger than MB.
It's really not about the age but the wealthiness. Of course, like Dewey and you have pointed out, there is certain a strong correlation between wealthiness and age.
There was no spin on my previous post, it was supposed to be a joke.
Elder folks buy lower priced Lexus ES models. These folks are not necesserarily the same kind of elderly affluent folks who buy the top of the line MBs.
Really? Because according to JD Powers:
Ages 16-35 / 36-55 / 56+
S-Class 16% / 52% / 32%
LS460 5% / 35% / 60%
Since LS460 also outsold S-class in units I'll bet my car key that there are more old people who drives a LS460 than a S-class. Again, this proves that it's not about buyer' average age but their wealthiness. However, I agree to a point that there is a correlation between age and wealthiness.
Who wants to get their $80k supercar serviced in the waiting room of a Nissan dealer?
The car will be a hit in either showroom, but it's inapproapriate for Nissan to sell such a car, when they built a whole brand to sell high-end Nissans. Kinda defeats the purpose.
I'm sure Nissan knows what they're doing.
DrFill
That's a great link! I would never have guessed, in like a billion years, Toyota buyers and Honda buyers are the same age, and Lexus buyers are only 3 years older than BMW buyers.
Fascinating!
I guess some good news came out of today. :shades:
DrFill
The degree of affluence is higher for Benz owners than other luxury marques like Lexus or BMW. The "Old Rich" have a bias towards Benzes. I also think there is a higher degree of affluent owners of Jags than Lexuses and BMWs.
Traditions do not die fast especially among the elder conservative wealthy types.
Reliability and Toyota are two words that basically meant the same thing unitl today ofcourse. :P
TagMan
Thank you.
If I had any self-respect left, I'd be worried.