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As much as we Americans have settled into mainly black and silver luxury cars I was surprised to see that black had to be the color of roughly 60% of all cars that I saw during the week. The rest were mostly a silver or a grey color with very few bright colors to be seen. This applied from Smart cars and A-classes up to big sedans. Maybe it was just the region I was in.
I only remember seeing two 7-series cars, I thought that was strange. I did see about equal amounts of S-class cars and A8's. I did not see any Lexus cars all week. Although I'm not sure if the Lexus brand exists in Germany or if Toyota just uses their main brand.
More than half of the cars are diesels and this applies down to very small cars as well as big sedans. The cab/limo drivers I was with still found a way to get pretty zippy performance from these cars and many were stick shifts, even in E-class Benzes.
The drivers and roads do encourage spirited driving. Someday when I get the time I will order a car with the factory pick up program that most companies offer as it would be a blast to spend a week or two driving high performance luxury car the way it was intended.
Best food of the week - Pig's knuckle cooked on an open flame rotisserie, unbelievable. I had a couple, washed them down with some great beer.
Consulting with an attorney and taking action are two very seperate matters. I have a couple af terrific attorneys I consult on occassion regarding various business and personal matters, and just listening to the way they think and understand the law can be a real eye-opener sometimes, and has also allowed me to make some very well-informed decisions along the way... seldom do I ever "involve" them other than to learn their legal perspective and hear their advice.
Sometimes a consultation regading a significant amount of money is worth every penny of their fee, and more often than not, their fee is more than made up for by my ability to make a better informed decision as to how to proceed.
Quite frankly, the decisions on how to handle my own situations are still mine to make, but I am then able to make them with a broader perspective. I don't see any negative in that at all, and only positive.
If legal action is ever truly necessary, then at least I know what I'm in for, and have someone I trust in my corner. But, as I said, legal action is rare, and their legal perspectives regarding situations, even like the one with the misrepresented Maserati that Ahtung has posted about, can be quite illuminating.
Additionally, houdini, I might be presumptuous here, but I am guessing that you do not know anything about that particular dealership he is talking about. I do know a thing or two about them. And considering that dealership, he would be wise to at least consult with an attorney, as he still always retains his own choices of action, but with a greater perspective.
I am glad to learn that Hemi has posted on this as well, as he is calling the situation correctly. There is absolutely no doubt that Ahtung really should see an attorney regarding this matter.
TagMan
TM
I was planning on takng the quick trip down to the LA show, but instead I'll be at the SF Int'l. Auto Show coming up at the end of the month.
VW's diesels should be great, but there is a delay in the Jetta's diesel debut from Spring to mid or late summer. They encountered a technical glitch in that one... and they are going to iron it out before they release it... smart move, as any such early glitch could be harmful to what will ultimatedly be a sensational engine!!
TagMan
Keep it, and the money...
And maybe you can buy yourself a new Gran Turismo on the side.
'06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet • '04 Lexus RX330
Still toying with the R8. I absolutely love that car. It's just not practical. Yes, I know it's easy to drive every day, but I might still need a rear seat.
Hm, I might end up ordering one within the next year or two, anyway. It's hard to resist.
'06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet • '04 Lexus RX330
TagMan
Consulting with an attorney and taking action are two very seperate matters.
Certainly I would agree with your second statement but my remarks were in reference to your first statement, which just seemed a little premature to me.
It could very well be the dealership at fault here or it could be the manufacturer or it could all be an honest mistake. No one knows until more info is forthcoming.
I am still trying to figure out why two identical plaques were made when obviously there could only be one car.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
I am still trying to figure out why two identical plaques were made when obviously there could only be one car.
Exactly. There a lots of questions, and hemi raised a few more. Whether it's an honest error or a dishonest error, it is a rather significant one, to say the least.
People get killed accidentally, and it can be an honest error. Would you still suggest to keep an attorney out of it?
While this isn't as serious as an accidental homicide, of course, it is nonetheless a very significant issue, and if it turns out there was foul play, a very serious crime could have been committed, and the penalties are potentially very harsh, possibly at the Federal level and also within the State of California's DMV and State Attorney General's office which oversees such affairs.
Again, I reiterate that an attorney should be consulted, as even the owners now hold knowledge regarding the existence of the two cars, knowing that one of them is a misrepresentation. Withholding information regarding a potential crime is in itself a potential problem for the owners.
I know this sounds extreme, and it might be easily rectified, and I hope that it is easily corrected, but Ahtung may actually have an obligation to report this to the State of California. Before he decides to do ANYTHING, or to NOT do anything, he needs to consult with an attorney to best determine his siuation. A potential crime has been either deliberately or accidentally committed, and he is one of the players involved, like it or not, even though apparently an innocent victim at this point.
I hope Ahtung at least consults with an attorney to consider his legal involvement in the situation, and his obligations, if any, and also consider his choices... so he understands which ones are legal and which ones could potentially come back to bite him later.
Consulting with car salesmen and car dealers could certainly be insightful, but they are not licensed attorneys, and there is quite a difference.
One more thing... if I understood Ahtung's post, he already inferred that there is already an attorney representing either the dealership or Maserati, and if that's the case, consider that he will make a legal settlement of some sort ultimately, right?...but are you suggesting he do so only utilizing the opposition's attorney, who's primary legal interest is their client's, not Ahtung's?
As I continue to see it, Ahtung needs to consult with an attorney. I still see no negative and only positive. Then Ahtung can make informed and legally appropriate decisions.
TagMan
Of course not. No more than you are suggesting he should file a lawsuit today. I said that I only liked to get attorneys involved as a last resort, but if they are stonewalling him then it might be appropriate.
Please, let's not get tied up in semantics here.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
TM
Not too surprisingly, I'm glad you re going to consult with an attorney. As far as the TV coverage goes, I think it sounds like a very interesting story, especially if they do a good job of reporting. I've seen "7 on your side" on occassion, and sometimes it all works out real good, and unfortunately, sometimes it doesn't.
The upside could be that everything goes according to plan and that it all works out somehow, especially for you, since you are the one that needs to end up with a successful solution..
The downside could be that things don't go as hoped and planned and things get nasty. There is also a risk that unwanted negative publicity could be inadvertantly associated with a potentially innocent party involved, and that ticks them off enough to get into even deeper legal action... and then you've opened up a can of worms.
Consulting with with an attorney should be the very FIRST thing you do. I would ask the attorney if "7 on your side" is a good idea or not, before deciding to do anything at all. IMO, you should not attempt to manage this yourself. Consider that it's time for damage control, not necessarily mass publicity. You should even mention that you have posted information regarding the situation on this website.
Remember, most of us need an attorney only a handful of times in our lives, but attorneys are dealing with multiple cases every day. So, who's really going to know first-hand and best how to deal with mixed up legal issues?
Whatever you do, best of luck, and keep us posted in accordance with your attorney's instructions. Even if you don't get "7 on your side", I would bet that it's safe to say that all the folks on the this forum are on your side... and hoping you get that scrambled mess all figured out... that's for sure!!
TagMan
The only things I'm really concerned about with that car are the transmissions and the colors. Right now, if I could have one, it would have the manual, in gray with a carbon fiber side blade, over black/beige. I just don't know if I would be able to live with a stick every day, though, because I broke my ankle last year and it's never going to fully heal. Perhaps I can keep the S4 on the side? It has Tiptronic.
'06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet • '04 Lexus RX330
You said you were a year or two away from the car, IF you get it. Perhaps you and your doctor should discuss what capabilitiy that ankle of yours might have in a year or two. Also, you should try a clutch now and then throughout the next year, just to see if you think you could handle it. Your ankle might not give you as much trouble as you are worried about... then again... maybe the R8 isn't the car for you... (I mean physically, not emotionally! LOL!)
BTW, have you thought about the Nissan GT-R? 0-60 in 3.5!!! Is that for REAL??!!! Priced just under $70K!!! Or am I misinformed?
Hey, back to the Audis.. in two more years that S4 of yours will be about 5 years old, huh? Is it a long-term keeper?
Didn't I read something in one of your posts about needing back seats?
TagMan
No its quite real. 473 horsepower and 434 ft-lbs. from the twin turbo 3.8L V6, AWD, and a DSG transmission. It's not really a luxury super car like the R8 though. The GT-R's interior is all business. I'd love to see Infiniti do an M38 GT based on that powertrain.
That idea is so brilliant, they'd be fools not to do at least something to that effect. Afterall, they've got a monster powertrain on their hands, and to limit its use to the one car would be a shame. Fortuately, they have a strong history of sharing powertrains, so perhaps we can look forward to something with a rear seat... and they can grab some market-share in the luxury coupe or sedan category as well... something that performs with prowess, and is all dressed up on the inside, deserving of the Infiniti badge... and Infiniti does know how to dress up an interior quite well, IMO.
TagMan
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
I agree.
I probably will test drive an RS4 sometime soon, so that will be the test for my ankle (yes, my left ankle). I don't think I need to see a doctor for this sort of thing, but rather see how much pain the RS4 puts me in, if any, and see if I can live with that every day.
If not, I might buy the R8 anyway and keep the S4 as a daily driver. Concerning the S4, I have no idea how long I'll keep it at this point. I might get rid of it when I get my next car, or as you said, I might buy an R8 and keep it, which would be awesome.
BTW, have you thought about the Nissan GT-R? 0-60 in 3.5!!! Is that for REAL??!!! Priced just under $70K!!!
I have considered that... but it's not for me. Lexusguy correctly assumed that I want a luxury sports car. The R8 fits that bill perfectly. It has exotic style, but doesn't compromise interior space. It has neck-breaking performance, but it can be driven every day. It has some of the best handling in the business, but it also has a comfortable suspension on par with the S8. It has a luxurious interior but it's not overpriced. All of these things combine to make the R8 my favorite car at the moment, and probably for a long time.
My wife will have the X5 and my son will have the A3, so if I do need a rear seat and sell the S4 to get an R8, it won't be a huge problem. And to be perfectly honest, I don't think either of them would have a problem with trading cars with me some days--that's what's great about the R8, even they can drive it.
'06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet • '04 Lexus RX330
As they say in the gambling world, "it'll cost ya". Yes, the "sideblade" is available in body color as well as carbon fibre.
As they say in the gambling world, "it'll cost ya". Yes, the "sideblade" is available in body color as well as carbon fibre.
That makes no sense, you have to PAY to NOT have a stripe? Bass Ackwards.
As I've always posted since the very beginning of the R8's debut... the R8 is one of the most distinguished and beautiful sports cars to have ever graced this planet... IMHO. If I weren't so much in love with my Carrera S, I'd have already placed a deposit on an R8 in a nano-second. And if the truth be told, I'd love to have them both sitting side by side in my garage... but that darned reality check keeps nagging at me.
TagMan
Yeah I think its probably a good bet that Infiniti will get something out of it. The Q45 has supposedly been canned for good, perhaps to make way for a flagship Infiniti coupe... or maybe even a convertible. They haven't done one of those for a long time. One thing's for sure, if they want to become a world brand like Lexus, they're going to need more than G, M, EX, and FX, especially when Audi and BMW are coming out with new models every other day. The QX really doesn't count.
The international jury was formed of: artists Kenneth Noland and Emilio Rodríguez Larraín, architects Claudio Bellini and Enrico Leonardo Fagone, designers Bruno Sacco, historian Lionello Puppi, Antoine Prunet, director of "Car & Design" Fulvio Cinti, director of "Car and Driver China" Xu Qun and journalist tester Alessandro Giudice.
And the winners are:
Citycar and small car: Fiat 500 - 18 points followed by Mazda2, 5 points;
Medium sedan, 2 volumes: Fiat Bravo, 15 points followed by Peugeot 308, 9 points;
Medium Sedan, 3 volume: Mercedes C-Class, 14 points followed by Audi A4, 11 points;
Limousine: Lexus LS 600h, 11 points followed by Lexus LS 460, 6 points;
Coupe: Audi A5, 13 points followed by BMW 1-Series Coupe, 6 points;
Convertible and Spider: Opel GT, 11 points, followed by BMW 3-Series Convertible 9 points;
Sports car: Aston Martin DBS, 10 points followed by Maserati GranTurismo, 7 points;
Station wagon: Mercedes C-Class SW, 12 points followed by Volvo V70, 6 points
Crossover: Volkswagen Tiguan, 8 points, followed by Nissan Qashqai, 7 points;
Special Edition: Lamborghini Reventón, 14 points;
Concept car: Renault Laguna Coupe Concept, 12 points followed by Volvo XC60, 5 points;
link title
Well, I think I've narrowed my own choice down to the LS and S, but I must say that if I end up with the LS, it won't be because I find it beautiful. I'm really surprised that a mostly-Italian jury would end up picking the LS as most beautiful in its category.
Just what I have been saying all along. Those Europeans know a good looking car when they see one!
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
TM.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Exactly! But no car is perfect, and I may end up in one anyway.
I, for one, LOVE family resemblance and think Lexus currently is the most consistent about it's design philosophy in its sedan lineup. There is nothing wrong that the ES looks like a baby LS as well as the new C-class looks like a baby S.
However, I think the L-finesse theme looks the best on the IS, follow by LS, GS and ES looks the worst.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
The R8 is indeed an excellent car, but it's going to lose and lose badly at the Nurburgring against the all conquering GT-R, which took down the 911 Turbo. To beat the GT-R you need a Zonda, K-sseg CCR, etc. And supposedly Nissan isn't done yet, as with past GT-Rs there's going to be a hardcore Nismo Z-tune version with 530hp+
Let me just say for the record here that from what I know of the GT-R so far, I am growing fond of it VERY quickly. And, while I think the R8 is a gorgeous car, the GT-R strikes me as more of a very menacing car.
BTW, some additional information to Atlas7 here: I know this pic has been posted before, but I don't know if everyone knew It was the 10-cylinder that blew and caught that R8 on fire a ways back.
I do intend to scope out the new GT-R when it becomes a real possibility. And DRIVE it !!!!!!
Fortunately the owner of the the local VW store here also owns the local Nissan store, so I will be hoping to get a test drive.. without too much arm-twisting.
TagMan
It is quite the machine. Check out the article in this month's Motortrend, they go into a lot more depth about it than anywhere else I've seen coverage on it. The LCD screen has 16 pages of info, covering acceleration, braking, cornering forces, etc. It can do its own magazine tests
I dont think the Acura and Lexus super cars have any hope of matching it.
I don't think the GT-R is in the same league as the Acura and Lexus super cars. The next NSX seems going to be a FR GT kind of car, likely to be the Aston Martin DBS competitor. Lexus LF-A on the other hand will have the F430 in its sight given that many F1 technologies are being utilized on the car. Don't know what's the top speed of the GT-R is but the LF-A will be more than 210 mph. After seeing spy videos of this car testing in the Ring I think there is little doubt that it will trump GT-R's time.
Of course, the price between the GT-R and the Acura/Lexus duo is incomparable either.
We'll see in 2009 I guess since that's when the LF-A and new NSX schedule to debut.
Don't know what's the top speed of the GT-R is but the LF-A will be more than 210 mph. After seeing spy videos of this car testing in the Ring I think there is little doubt that it will trump GT-R's time
I thought the GTR's time was supposed to be in the "unreal" category. Hey, I think Lexus cars are great, have 2 of them, but what "evidence" leads you to believe the LF-A will trump the GT-R's time around the Ring? Surely, you can't conclude this based on watching spy videos, or maybe you can? I am skeptical on this one.
The benchmark for the GT-R is 911 Turbo and the benchmark for the LF-A is the F430. Yes, the GT-R time in the Ring is "unreal" for a sub $100K car but is it really in the supercar territory yet? I don't think so.
Anyway, this is just a speculation, we'll have to wait to find out. If the GT-R trumps F430's time in the Ring is it in the same league then?
The benchmark for the GT-R is 911 Turbo and the benchmark for the LF-A is the F430. Yes, the GT-R time in the Ring is "unreal" for a sub $100K car but is it really in the supercar territory yet? I don't think so.
Anyway, this is just a speculation, we'll have to wait to find out. If the GT-R trumps F430's time in the Ring is it in the same league then?
Well, just looked up the times, it appears that the GT-R crushed the F430's time around the Ring,10/2007 GT- R.time 7:38: vs 01/2006 Ferarri F430 F1 time 7:55
Hmmm...cheaper, faster, better handling, braking, etc....GT-R stone cold winner!
Don't be silly, Ferrari is an icon. I was surprised myself that the GTR smoked the Ferrarri, as well as many other "name brand" high performance cars. I think people sometimes dismiss car makers or cars that don't have "heritage", but the performance numbers by the GT-R are flat out undeniable. Heck, if you asked me which one I would rather have, Ferrari hands down, better looking and to get to the differences in the cars I would have to drive the RING.
No matter the argument that all cars are derivative of each other, this is going over the line. The front-end is clearly inspired by the Lexus LS, but what’s much, much worse is the side profile/rear of the Genesis — you don’t even have to squint to see a BMW 5-Series.
When you think about the resources it took to develop the latest iteration of the BMW design language, how the look is clearly illustrated throughout their lineup, it’s a real shame to see it copied wholesale. Imitation may be the sincerest form of flattery, but it’s doubtful that BMW (or Lexus, to a lesser extent) are impressed by the compliment.
Source: The Passionate Pursuit
I couldn't agree with it more, shame on Hyundai that's for sure. Even the original LS400 wasn't as obvious as this with its imitation of the S-class.
TagMan
Personally, I don't think it matters all that much, anyway. Design themes historically weave their way through the different marques. It's absolutely nothing new. Common actually. I guess for some reason it bothers you. If that's the case, there's plenty of shame to go around the globe when it comes to design trends. My advice... get over it.
The only country I am aware of that is "crossing the line", as you put it is China. Have you seen their X5 look-alike?, Or their Smart-Car clone? They are infringements of the clearest order, as they are literally almost a total carbon copy of the original. Now THAT''s shameful... IMHO.
TagMan
Just look at the flame surface of the Banglized BMW then take a look at the smooth L-finess on the Lexus. I don't see any similarities. The only thing that Lexus copied was the Bangle butt but they are not the only one guilty of doing this. Did you see the Bangle butt on the new S-class? Yup, it's there.
Does the IS looks like a 3-series?
Does the GS looks like a 5-series?
Does the ES looks like anything in BMW's inventory?
Does the RX/GX looks like a X-5?
Does the SC looks like a 6-series (Granted that it's ugly but that's not the point here)?
Please, BMW builds great performance machines but styling was never their strong suit (inside and out). Get it over with.
Atlas7, perhaps a bit surprising, but I must tell you that I totally agree with your recent posts about the GT-R, and your perspective on this incredible machine. I also agree with your comments on its relationship to the other vehicles that have been discussed. All very good posts, IMO.
I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night
TM