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Comments
I did sit in one and thought it looked pretty good and had a good feel to it. Plenty of room for my 6-1, 175 pound frame. If you can't fit in this car you have a serious weight problem.
I thought everyone here liked the Accord at first, but now, even without a TD, everyone has decided it is a loser. Hemi being the exception. Personally I like it much more than the Camry. Much more athletic looking.
Also the Accord is a much larger car than the 3 series BMW. Longer, wider, taller, more front head room, front shoulder room, front hip room and front leg room. And you will need all that extra room to haul around the $15,000. you save over the 335i.
The new Accord is even larger than the 5 series in almost all dimensions.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
I live in a "golf cart community" (hell on earth?) and you haven't lived until you get stuck behind a 15 mph golf cart with a big bad BMW V-8 urging you forward. :sick:
Well, at least I have plenty of legroom and an incredibly comfortable seat in the 545i for my lean, athletic 6'2" 180 lb. frame as I crawl along behind the golf cart, unlike that joke of a 2008 Accord whose hard driver's seat and limited seat travel made me feel like I was in a torture chamber.
If you plan to go see the new hideously ugly Accord in person, be warned-this is not an activity for the easily frightened or squeamish. Please be careful out there. If you decide to go anyway, please take your blood pressure medication an hour before you go. Good luck.
I saw a brand new (updated) '08 Audi S8 in Phantom Black at the mall. Stunning. Now I think I want that. I need help.
Not to mention its incredible ten-cylinder exhaust note as the driver peeled off.
'08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet
Yup. The new Accord is an unsymmetrical hodgepodge of a little of this with a sprinkle of that alright. Absolutely hideous. A cheap, poorly-designed rip-off of the BMW 5 Series. I wonder if Honda called in the Aztek design team. :shades:
Double yup. The Prius is quite hideous-looking. One was stopped at a light next to me one day. Being totally reserved and mature, I absolutely floored the pedal of my 545i to redline leaving that sorry excuse of a car in shock!
Yup again. Right on about the Camry's looks being so much better than the new Accord, but then again it wouldn't take much.
We seem to be in "accord" on so many things this evening.
Come back soon.
IMO, it looks fantastic. It has an expensive air about it that sets it apart from every other car in the class. It could be badged as an Acura, Lexus or BMW and nobody would raise an eyebrow.
'08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet
Save one for me, will you? Or at least SOME hot Audis that you don't have.
'08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet
Is that your impression? ALL the German car fans? I understood blkhemi to be quite supportive. And I posted that the car has tons of merit, other than its boring style and 5-speed, but to be "fair and balanced, I posted that I was reserving final opinions unti after I've checked it out personally...
Now doesn't that sound "FAIR & BALANCED?" :P
TagMan
and for some unknown reason I want to mention that Toyota Tundra being a kick-[non-permissible content removed] full-sized truck, is overhyped... it's a total loser.
TagMan
Ah, yes... very good, grasshopper! :shades:
TagMan
I have nothing good to say about it.
You want one. Buy one.
My opinions are mein and mein alone. :shades:
I have nothing good to say about it.
You want one. Buy one.
My opinions are mein and mein alone.
... I don't know which I like better...
1. "Fair and balanced"
or...
2. "Biased and Honest!!"
This time, sir, I'll take door #2, please.
TagMan
I admit to a predilection for fine German cars, but I don't see that as a "bias." I don't automatically like a vehicle because it is "German." German manufacturers put comfortable seats in their vehicles and I fit in them the best for starters.
If the Accord provided me with a comfortable driver's seat with decent legroom, I would be singing its praises (from the inside, anyway). I don't hate Honda in any pre-judgemental sort of way.
I have noticed that Japanese vehicles tend to be designed for drivers around 5'8"-5'10". If they want to do better in NA, they should design their interiors so that 6 footers do not always have to feel cramped. Why don't those guys seem to get it? It's such a simple thing. I have never sat in a Lexus I didn't feel totally claustrophobic in... mein head hitting the sunroof, my leg hitting the console, the antiquated footbrake depriving my left foot of a comfortable place, etc;
Is mein post making any zenz at all?
Was that you I saw running the marathon on TV recently? Of course, I was eating tons of potato chips and popcorn, while drinking plenty of beer as I slouched into the couch for hours watching as many sports shows as possible.
I don't know if I'll fit into the Accord yet, but if I don't, I'll go see my doctor for diet recommendations.
TagMan
Hey, you were honest, and no apologies should be necessary from you. You were plenty harsh on the car, from your own perspective, but there was nothing wrong with that. At least you gave it a good chance. You're a big guy and you are simply not going to sit comfortably in some of the Japanese cars. I have often wondered if the Japanese understand the American or European human body.
Besides, as houdini said, anyone that can't fit in the Accord has a "serious weight problem". :surprise:
Better get on that bike tomorrow and peddle some more. Maybe you can also figure a way to shrink down from 6'3" to something more "normal", like houdini.
TagMan
edit: hey, houdini, I'm just kidding, man... don't go postal on me.
If I lose any more weight, I can take one of those Accords right off the show-room floor and nobody would notice. Believe me, 6'2", 180 lbs. is THIN!!
Funny how intolerant the fair and balanced crowd can be.
Actually, I never mentioned the width of the Accord's driver's seat. I complained about its firmness and its disappointing lack of legroom for anyone 6' or taller.
I never said I couldn't fit into the new Accord. I don't know how "weight" even became an issue. :confuse:
I must say, that was a pretty funny post, TM! The wife heard me laughing but I couldn't explain it to her if I wanted to!
TM
1. Fire all those employees posting on Edmunds on company time.
2. Redesign every interior so everyone from 5' to 6'6" would be able to find a comfortable driving position.
3. Invest my entire 401k in BMW stock.
Seriously though (as if THAT's possible), I think BMW is going to kick some serious butt over the next few years. Great models, and diesels will arrive.
I am truly seeing more new BMWs all over the place lately than ever before!
I'm still kicking the idea around about one of those 1-Series with the twin turbo. I keep wondering what the back seat will be like, though... you know, if the kids can hang there for short drives or not... and then there are the diesels... but who knows what they will be yet?
TagMan
edit: lack of rum cake sounds dreadful.
Oh, I see your edit... rum cake in a shot glass? Hmmm... yes, that can do the trick., but it's not quite the same... something is missing... oh, yes... the wife! Now that's another topic for another day.
In all seriousness, I was sourly disappointed in the IS350 I sat in, and I'm not even a tall guy. 5'9" on a good day. It is ridiculously cramped. I can even fit in the rear seat of my A3 with relative ease... but the front seat of a larger Lexus is tough?
BMW really gets it. They can somehow maintain their exclusive image while boasting #1 sales. They reap huge profits without having to dial back those sales. Their cars have set worldwide trends--everyone wants to be the "sporty" car manufacturer now, as luxury is out. Even Buick is in on it!
But there's something in me still saying that Audi is the most progressive at the moment. Their Chinese dominance will escalate to a level that will leave worldwide sales of all other luxury brands in the dust. Their profits are rising--most predict they will eclipse BMW's. So many of their new products match or exceed the competition from Munich. So why don't they sell in the US? That's the question. In the long run it won't make much of a difference, because like I said, there's China. But right now, it matters. Is it because of the same reason for Lexus's lackluster sales in Europe? If so, then how do BMW and Merc get both markets right? What is Audi really missing? I don't want to hear about "advertising," "60 Minutes!" blah, blah, blah, because that's BS. I want something real. What is holding them back?
'08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet
But I must beg your indulgence before a full resumption here. I owe a dear friend of mine (LJFLX) a long belated e-mail which I must fulfill before I get too knee deep in the forum banter.
Let me take this opportunity to say HELLO to blkhemi, TagMan, D-Man, LexusGuy, Houdini, and others I have missed reading from. It still doesn't appear Merc1 is back around here. Such a great poster too, despite our often strong differences. Made this forum so lively and entertaining with his depth of automotive knowledge.
I see blkhemi is still always on the lookout for that perfect Audi. The R8 is a great car in every respect. The S550 is da best of the family luxury sedan, edging out the LS IMHO. I have had plenty of TD to make that conclusion. A friend just bought a slightly used manual-tranny 545i at a great deal. I have been blessed to take it for a spin often enough to know its a dangerous car for me to own. I'd kill someone or be killed driving that car... Its a wicked car begging you to drive it hard and FAST....
I still have my eye on my colleague's 2004 M3, black/copper, very lightly used - like 10K miles. He says he won't take a ime under $50K for it. He must be smoking som'thing... I am waiting for the stuff in his veins to play out and come to his senses so he can be reasonable on an offer, else I go Porsche. We'll see....
Be back soon, fellas... and keep it real and positive
edit: BLKHEMI, I missed mentioning the Altima-H on my list. Got a great quote from carsdirect, but they couldn't find one for months.... Looked on all dealer lots locally... no one had any. Was told it'll take me 3-4 months to get what I want. So I had to go with the next best - the TCH. That's why the TCH will undergo the subtle transformation on the ride dept - bigger wheels/tires (18s) and lowered suspension (1.5") to make the ride much more compliant and less floaty. The current drive is certainly vanilla but it gets the job done until I can make the changes.... Who knows, the TCH may turn out to be a diamond in the rough.... But may never match the Nissan-H in the drive dept, altho' I'll give it a shot.
Funny about the 545i you mentioned. I have often felt that way myself! Coming back from an interstate adventure, the thought, "OMG! This car is gonna get me killed!" has frequently been in my head. This is one big reason I want to downsize a bit to a 3 Series. I don't need all that power.
It looks like Infiniti did a nice job on the refreshed M's interior. I can't get by the poor gas mileage, though.
Man, I hope you get the Boxster. My neighbor has one in white. She is around 75 years young and is having a great time charging around our neighborhood's one and only curved street!
Regards,
Hpowders
I went to the auto show some weeks ago and sat in a lot of vehicles.
The only vehicle I felt completely comfortable in the driver's seat was a 328i sedan. That seat really moved back quite a bit. Nothing from Lexus, Acura or Honda came close. I did not sit in the Infiniti M because its poor mpg has eliminated it from my consideration.
Like I previously posted, if a Japanese manufacturer wants to do well here, their vehicles should be able to fit drivers in the range of 5' to about 6'6". BMW's do.
I will not drive a vehicle if I can't adjust the seat to fit me first. It will be "Thanks, anyway" and I am gone.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
It's a good thing to have different views expressed here, even if some are completely irrational. That is what makes the forum interesting. Example:
The specs show the Accord has more FRONT LEG ROOM than either the 3 series or the 5 series yet one elderly poster continues to be confused on this issue. Too bad.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
At least I have sense to get away from the cold and the tornados. Heh! Heh! Heh!
I sat in both the 2008 BMW 328i and the new Accord and the 3 Series driver's seat definitely has more seat travel.
Rather then sitting on my rump reading "stats", I actually sat in both vehicles, so I know what I am talking about.
Rather than rely on the "stats", for those who seem to have a problem with my credibility, get off the couch, go to BMW and Honda and sit in both vehicles.
It's a shame some of you folks seem so chronically miserable. Attempting to insult folks with "one elderly poster" is sooo low and immature, even for you. Heh! Heh!
Instead of taking cheap potshots, get out there and verify some of the information folks like me are taking the trouble to provide you with.
The suspension is not any stiffer in the IS350 than the IS250 so I don't know what's the "overly stiff in 350 form" that you were talking about. However, the sports and X packages IS does come with stiffer suspensions.
Again, Lexus did a very good job building a Lexus IS but not so much of a good job building a Lexus 3-series. It's just funny that anything Lexus built that's not a Bimmer rip-off (like many Infinitis) is considered as "failed miserably"...
For folks of any height and build who love to drive, I heartily recommend the BMW 3 Series. There is a reason it is called the Ultimate Driving Machine.
I am 6'1", 195 lbs, do drive 25 miles round trip in LA traffic (city) from home to office, love taking a long drive either on highways or twisty mountain roads but never (and probably won't) track my car.
What do I drive?
An IS350.
:shades:
Keep it up. :surprise:
I have no problems at all finding a comfortable driving position in my IS (as matter of fact there are still at least 2 inches left from top of my head to the roof) so I don't think why would I have a problem in a Honda Accord. As matter of fact I didn't while sitting in the Accord during the LA Auto show this year.
I also seriously doubt that one can find a comfortable driving position in the 3-series but couldn't do it in the new Accord because:
Accord EX-L V-6.....3-Series 335i
Front Headroom (in.) 39.00.....38.50
Rear Headroom (in.) 37.20.....37.50
Front Legroom (in.) 42.50.....41.50
Rear Legroom (in.) 37.20.....34.60
Front Shoulder Room (in.) 58.20.....55.40
Rear Shoulder Room (in.) 56.40.....55.10
I'd rather not remember anyway, but the wife's been quick to remind me on occassion! :sick:
Honestly, I do thank God that my neck improved before they took a surgeon's "knife" to it. I've heard horror stories about neck surgery.
BTW, thanks for being a good sport while I had a little fun at your expense!!
An indication of good character... but, of course, that's just my highly-biased opinion.
TagMan
Congratulations on your hybrid Camry. I was on the waiting list for a hybrid Camry back in Feb. 06 but I cancelled my order due to its trunk space.
I'd take a hybrid Camry over a hybrid Altima anyday. In fact the only hybrid I would ever buy would be a Toyota/Lexus hybrid. Why? Because unlike all the other competitors Toyota has the most to lose if hybrids become unpopular so they're going to do their utmost to make it a success. Believe me it is no mere coincidence that the most reliable Toyotas and Lexuses today are hybrids. Toyota cannot afford to be sloppy and indecisive with hybrids . Toyota's competitors dont have so much at stake so they will not try so hard to make hybrids a success..
Just look at Honda. Their hybrids are sub-par compared to Toyota's and their weak commitment towards hybrids is evident by how fast they pulled the plug on the hybrid Accord.
Nissan's CEO Ghosn once dissed the whole idea about hybrids and then screamed UNCLE by using Toyota's HSD system. Even today Ghosn continues to diss hybrids despite the recent anouncement that Nissan will develop their very onw hybrids. I would never buy a hyrbid from Nissan that gives such mixed hybrid messages since such indecisiveness will hinder their commitment to servicing and improving hybrids.
Also I would dread buying a hybrid BMW or Porsche. BMW and Porsche are jointly developing hybrids with other companies so they dont have much to lose like Toyota if their endeavors fail. Just imagine the headache of servicing a hybrid BMW if the company chooses to discontinue making hybrids. I'd pick a diesel BMW over a hybrid BMW anyday.
If servicing was not an issue then Toyota may not have an advantage over competitors. But servicing is a big issue especially for hybrids since there are a lack of independent shops that can completely service hybrid vehicles.
That's a ridiculous idea that the numbers can actually determine the comfort.
If that were true, there would be no fitting rooms at clothing stores, because the label size would be all we need to go by... which we all know isn't the case. I have frequently found that just because it says "large" doesn't mean that sometimes I don't actually need a medium or x-large instead. Same with shoes... many of the shoes in my closet are labeled different sizes... good thing I tried them on first... which I ALWAYS do anyway.
I can't imagine expecting to know what comfort a car will provide without sitting in it.
Besides, remember your lecture to all of us about some of the Honda Accord "bashing" that was going on before test-driving one?
Same is true for sitting in the driver's seat! Until your big (or little) butt is in the seat, you can't know how it will fit you... and everyone is built different. Of course you have been blessed to be the fit-and-trim 6'1" and 175 lbs.!
TagMan
Amen.
TagMan
Been there, done that! I would say its more than half the time, and the unfortunate thing is that it's only going to get far worse as there are more and more cars (and not Porsche 911s) on the roads. Give it another 10 years and the only time we'll be able to really enjoy sports cars is at the track. :sick:
I'd fire the people who designed the IS, ES, and GS interiors. Booorrrinng! Then I'd buy a few Volvos, and have the guys in charge of the seats analyze every inch of them and copy them just enough not to get sued. I'd also buy a few Audis, to show the interior guys how to do wood, metal, and switch gear properly.
From what I remember of the 130i vs. Golf R32 test on Top Gear, they were not fans of the 1 series. Their test car was well over £30K, and there was no space in the back. RWD is certainly fun, but its space efficiency problems (especially with a straight six) are very significant in a car that size. The question they posed was, why buy a hatch with useless back seats and no trunk space when you could have a Z4?
That's a ridiculous idea that the numbers can actually determine the comfort.
The original statement that kicked all this bickering off said nothing about overall comfort. It simply said there was not enough front leg room in the Accord. Period. My reply was simply to refute this notion. Nothing else.
Thanks for the compliment on my physique. As my wife says, " 175 pounds of twisted steel and sex appeal". :shades:
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
TagMan
Accord EX-L V-6.....3-Series 335i
Front Headroom (in.) 39.00.....38.50
Rear Headroom (in.) 37.20.....37.50
Front Legroom (in.) 42.50.....41.50
Rear Legroom (in.) 37.20.....34.60
Front Shoulder Room (in.) 58.20.....55.40
Rear Shoulder Room (in.) 56.40.....55.10
Unfortunately, those numbers are pretty much meaningless. Assuming that one drivers seat will fit great while another won't because the statistics say so is like assuming that if your shoe size is a 10, every shoe, no matter who makes it or what kind of shoe it is, as long as its a 10, its going to fit great. Real life just doesn't work that way. The only way to know whether your going to be comfortable in a car is to go and sit in it.
Quite possibly, yes. It certainly won't outrun a 135i, but in terms of practicality I'd say it has a leg up on the BMW.
Thats a good question, one "Mr. Audi" from Cincinnati is probably best posed to answer, but I'll give it a shot. I don't think there's any one reason why Audi's sales are so weak in the US, its a multitude of issues. I also think that the 60 minutes argument is so past ridiculous at this point that its not worth bringing up. Who remembers some news report from the '80s? Nobody seems to remember Suzuki's big fight with CR.
I think the reasons are much more simple than that. Horsepower is a very big deal in this country, and Audis are usually down, sometimes very significantly, on power vs. the competition. Combine that with mandatory AWD on all but the most basic models, and they're often noticeably slower. The Audi badge just does not carry as much prestige as BMW or Mercedes, or Lexus, even, and they don't have the same kind of name recognition. I have a feeling that Mercedes or BMW owners are more loyal to their brands, and are more willing to overlook unscheduled service visits than Audi owners. Audi reliability has hugely improved in the last few years, but the cars from 8 or even 5 years ago weren't so great. How many people are there who had to get ignition coils replaced, electrical systems fixed, or brake rotors replaced constantly, and will never go near an Audi dealership again?
The Infiniti M came from absolutely nowhere and is killing the A6 in sales, but in some ways Infiniti may have the advantage of coming from nowhere. Nobody had a nasty experience with a last gen M, because nobody bought one. The last A6 on the other hand...
Finally, I still think bad advertising has a lot to do with it. Audi ads are really terrible. They need to challenge BMW, Mercedes, and Lexus in their ads, and they just aren't doing it. BMW seems happy to challenge the other brands with their "ultimate service" advantage, even though they are already a market leader and they don't really have to. Audi is not a market leader. Every ad should be showcasing why Audi is better than BMW or Mercedes, especially now that you can get AWD from anybody. Quattro is still the best AWD system in the world for bad weather traction, and Audi needs to get the word out. Show an A6 Avant beating the snot out of an X5 or Benz 4Matic on a snowy road. Do something.
Volvo seats sure are comfortable but talking about unsupportive...
Lexus seats are definitely not the most comfortable nor the most supportive but they are very balanced IMO. There are people who like the extremes but at the same time there are also a lot of folks who like balance.
I'd also buy a few Audis, to show the interior guys how to do wood, metal, and switch gear properly.
That'll be the day I stop buying Lexus.
Seems to be something else at work here. :confuse:
My advice is to stay far away from the new Accord. It is hideous to look at, has very firm seats, cheap interior, uncomfortable door handles and poor driver's seat legroom.
Entering the 328i in contrast is like Nirvana after the torture chamber called the Honda Accord. Comfortable seats, upscale interior, great door handles and fantastic legroom for my 6'2", 180 Lbs well-proportioned body.
The mpg on the 328i is similar to the Accord without gimmicks like VCM.
BMW inline 6's don't need any artificial help.
I sat in the 328i wagon today which the dealer told me has the same seat travel as the 328i sedan. He wasn't kidding. Exactly the same. Very comfortable for my 6'2" long legs.
I will sit in another Accord EX-L V-6 sometime this week from another dealer and report back.