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  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Ouch!! :surprise:
    TM
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    I've seen editors described Accord as "fun to drive" and also the Porsche Boxster as "fun to drive". However, I am pretty sure that they do not mean the Accord is equal to the Boxster in the "fun to drive" level.

    None of the $25K, mid-size FWD family boxes are going to be able to match a Boxster, or a BMW 5 series in fun to drive factor. That's where class comparison shopping comes in. I haven't driven the new Accord, but I know that the old one had "decent" handling abilities that were completely hamstrung by awful OEM tires. If properly weighted steering and good handling (for a family sedan) are a priority, the Mazdaspeed 6 and Legacy Spec.B are far better choices than the Accord. Nissan also might do another Altima SE-R. The Accord is the more pedestrian, mainstream choice.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,331
    When they say the Accord is "fun to drive", they mean relative to the other family sedans.

    I have never driven the Boxster. I probably would like it.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    Exactly!

    The reason for my "fun to drive" post was intended to reply this statement you've posted earlier:

    "I selected the Accord because several reviews have said it is fun to drive."

    I am pretty sure the reviewers were relating to other family sedans as well.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,331
    You are probably right, Dewey.

    BMW has it down pat. They do everything right:

    I always have plenty of room for my left foot, perfect shifter, no problems with either elbow rest, good legroom, perfect driving position, trip computer right there where I can see it. I can take these things for granted whenever I step into a BMW vehicle.

    I can order my 3 Series without having to test drive it first. I am that confident.

    My Accord test drive taught me to be very thankful that the perfect BMW vehicle will always be there for me. I don't and won't have to settle for anything less.

    It's a great feeling! :)
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,331
    If the Accord is "fun to drive" relative to the other family sedans, what must THEY be like to drive??

    YIKES!!! :surprise:
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    H, that statement reminds me of Marie Antoinette. When she was told that the common people are starving to death she replied: Why don't they eat meat balls...

    There is a reason why those cars are called family sedans, they were meant to be an A to B people hauler appliance. Some are more sporty than others but even the sportiest of them all wouldn't match Bimmers in driving dynamics.

    There are A LOT of people out there who would never dream of owning a BMW and would kill for a $25K Honda Accord V6. :surprise:
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    You got used to Bimmers that's all.

    Ever since I learned how to drive I had nothing but Hondas and Toyotas (counting Lexus and Acura). Both manufactures have very similar interfaces and controls so I felt right at home whenever I step inside one of them. However, whenever I had a German or American rental cars it always took me longer of getting used to it and somehow something just won't feel right. Many people would love to have an Audi A4 as rental cars for 2 weeks but for me I was ready to get back to my IS after the first day.

    Is it bias? You bet it is.

    Likewise, I can probably order a Honda Accord without driving it, I am also that confident given my previous satisfying experiences.
  • clemboclembo Member Posts: 253
    H, that statement reminds me of Marie Antoinette. When she was told that the common people are starving to death she replied: Why don't they eat meat balls...

    I just had meatballs for dinner, am I common...Only kidding

    The Boston Auto Show starts tomorrow, anyone here going? I am actually looking forward to sitting in a few of these cars that are causing the controversy here. Plus I intend on buying three new cars in the next 6-8 months, can't beat the research opportunity.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    If the Accord is "fun to drive" relative to the other family sedans, what must THEY be like to drive??

    YIKES!!!


    Like a Camry :)
  • sysweisyswei Member Posts: 1,804
    Remember very recent rumours about the upcoming third generation of Priuses accomplishing 100 MPG? FORGET IT The reality is that the future of hybrids will likely resemble the disappoing LS600H which is a car that consumes more gas on highways than a ICE LS460 . As long as Toyota continues to be delayed in introducing lithium ion batteries then their hybrid dreams of far more fuel efficient vehicles will fizzle.

    I remember posting something that suggested the next Prius would use newer-tech NiMh that would be roughly half the size and weight as the current generation.

    Today, those leaps of progress are proving tough to repeat: as new technologies develop and gasoline-electric powertrains become available in a wider range of models, the gains over existing hybrids seem more incremental than startling.

    I don't think that should be surprising. How many examples are there of electromechanical inventions where the later generations offer greater leaps than the earlier ones? Not many, I think.

    Please recognize that hybrid tech is though in an earlier less mature stage than diesel. Therefore hybrid can be expected to make bigger improvements in mpg than diesel going forward, imho.

    And even when new twists in technology do arrive — developments that include plug-in hybrids, which can be recharged on household current to give them more driving distance on batteries alone — it may be impossible to give buyers a measure of how much the advances help because there is no test to measure their mileage.

    Use your imagination, why don't you? We'll just need to change the measurement technique. Maybe the fueleconomy.gov site will let you input the cents per kwh where you live, and the anticipated trip length, and come up with a total "cents per mile" for different cars. I'll bet that some progressive companies (like in CA) will provide free charging outlets to employees, as a perk.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Use your imagination, why don't you?

    Are you talking to me :confuse:

    Please dont shoot the messanger! That blurb I had posted was from a writer from the NY Times--please refer to the link below my post #8125.

    The one part of my post that I did write was about how big improvements in hybrids are dependent on lithium ion batteries(certainly better than smaller and lighter NiMh batteries).

    Better batteries means better mileage. Now that does not involve too much imagination--dont you think?
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,331
    You are right. A lot of folks would look at the EX V6 as a quantum leap up.

    That's why I wrote after getting back in the 545i I am so thankful I can count on having a BMW....

    Any of us who drive luxury cars. As we used to say in Brooklyn, "We got it good." :)
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,331
    I have driven BMWs since 1993. Nothing else. I didn't expect the Accord to be at that level, certainly. The gearshift lever, however, shouldn't feel like tin and act like rust.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,331
    As Henry Higgins would say:

    "I think you've got it!" ;)
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Member Posts: 5,224
    Hi, Jim: I'm heading to the Convention Center on Friday. Not sure if I'm driving or takin' the T...

    I'm looking forward to checking out (if it's there) the Jag XF and XK, Audi A/S5, Caddy CTS (I intensely disliked the first iteration. Worst. Interior. Ever!) and Maserati GranTurismo et. al.. And Hyundai: best SWAG!!!

    Buying three cars! Why three and what are the top contenders?

    '21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)

  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,331
    C&D tested the CTS DI, G35 Sport, C300 Sport and 328i with Sport package in their January 2008 issue.

    The 328i came in first place with a 23 out of 25 rating for "gotta have it" and a whopping 25 out of 25 for "fun to drive." The 328i scored a total of 227 points out of 250 from a total of 23 categories. Nobody else was close. :)

    Hey Dewey, I'm gonna extend my subscription for another 3 years. Heh! Heh!

    Yup. This is most likely what I will be getting over the summer. I don't need the 335i's power. Can't use most of it anyway. ;)
  • vchiuvchiu Member Posts: 564
    Hello everyone, I am coming from another thread
    "What will you do when gas price rises above $4 a gallon?"
    http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f12b78a
    where discussion have been focusing on walking and pedaling a bike lately.
    While it's great to save the earth, It's good to have a break sometimes.

    http://www.autobild.de/artikel/Themen-Testberichte-Die-Schampus-Sportler_455208.- html

    AMG CL 65 vs Bentley Continental GT speed. 612hp vs 610

    in short, the CL is more technical oriented, while the Bentley impresses by its overengineered interior with impeccable fit and finish.
    The CL is stronger in raw acceleration thanks to its brutal torque, but it did not fare as well as the Bentley on the racetrack, lagging 2 seconds behind per turn.
    In this respect, the CL performed between a carerra 4S and a Cayman.
    The CL had more body movement and a steering with less feeling than the Bentley. Despite its 300 LB extra weight, the 4x4 transmission of the Bentley allowed a much more composed handling and a stronger efficiency. Offering a better blend of sportivity, nobility and exclusivity, the Bentley takes the lead.
  • clemboclembo Member Posts: 253
    I am going to the show tonight, I have schedule conflicts the next few days. I am looking to replace my MDX, my A8, and I'm thinking of adding a convertible for Boston next summer - potentially a 335i or maybe a S5 if the cab version is launched by then.

    I am curious like you seem to be with the new Jaguars, I hope they're nice, I know a few guys on this forum have had good experiences with Jags.
  • jimbresjimbres Member Posts: 2,025
    As a long-time Honda owner (started with a Civic in '74 -- now drive an '06 CR-V), I'd give Honda points in the fun-to-drive column for offering manual transmissions in more models than the competition does. The last time I looked, Toyota wouldn't build you a top-of-the-line Camry with 3 pedals, but you can buy an EX-L Accord with a 6-speed stick. (If I were in the market for a new Accord, I'd probably pick the 4-cylinder EX sedan with the 5-speed. I imagine that it would be less nose-heavy & thus a better handling car than the 6-cylinder.)

    And Honda does stick really well, with crisp shifting action & a light, predictable clutch that won't beat you up in stop-&-go driving. (I don't think that I've ever driven an automatic Honda.)

    I also own a BMW - an '01 330i with sport package & stick - so I know what you mean about the steering.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Welcome vchiu! We have quite a lively and, um, diverse (:P) bunch here - hang around, it's a lot of fun! :)
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    The problem here is probably not with the Honda. It's your high expectations developed from driving a 60K 5 series ( that you may or may not be aware of ).

    I don't think thats true at all. Friends have often requested my assistance to help them pick out a car, sometimes for their kids so we're talking about the cheap stuff. I was quite impressed by the Mazda3, even though I drove there in a Jag XK. Thats an even bigger step down than BMW 5 to Accord V6, but I was able to recognize that for what it is and what it costs, Mazda did a great job with the 3.


    Therein lies the difference between a car enthusiast and a brand chaser. An enthusiast recognizes the charms/attractions of all cars. Brand chasers refuse to see any good in anything that isn't built by their chosen brand. I fully intend to buy a Civic Si sedan (if they're still building it) when I'm done with my 550i. ;) That is one fun little car to scoot through traffic in.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Brand chasers refuse to see any good in anything that isn't built by their chosen brand.

    They also often fail to see the bad in cars that are built by their chosen brand. No automaker in the world, including BMW, has a best in class car in every category they compete in.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    AMG CL 65 vs Bentley Continental GT speed. 612hp vs 610 ?

    I'd pick the AMG CL65 over any Bentley because I am a low profile type of guy.

    The two words "nobility" and "exclusivity" you used to describe the Bentley are the two exact words I would avoid in a car since not even my own kids will refer to me as a Lord or a Duke. So much for my delusions of royal grandeur.
  • 2001gs4302001gs430 Member Posts: 767
    I can predict with 100% certainty that your next car will be a BMW now. ;) The only thing is with your driver seat all the way back, there would be no leg room left for the passenger behind you in the 328i.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    I'd pick the AMG CL65 over any Bentley because I am a low profile type of guy.

    I'd pick the Benz also, mostly because at least on the west coast, you see more Continental GTs than Ford Explorers. The last time I was in the SF area, I must've counted at least 12 of them. An exclusive car it is not. I'd take a plain ole' CL550 though, because the CL can't be a sports car, no matter what AMG does to it. That, and the CL65's traction control has to choke the engine at launch so it doesn't tear the tires off, and its limited to 155, just like the "pedestrian" CL. I still don't understand the point of those big V-12 AMG cars.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,331
    I would imagine an Accord Coupe with a stick would be top of the line for driver enjoyment relative to other Accords.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    still don't understand the point of those big V-12 AMG cars

    Me too. I have no desire in driving a heavy oversized elephant with sneakers. A lot of wasted money IMO.
  • 2001gs4302001gs430 Member Posts: 767
    Don't know how I missed this post yesterday?
    Well, LG you know that it's easier to be objective when you are looking/advising on car purchases. When it's your own car, one tends to do irrational things to justify one's preference(s).
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    C&D tested the CTS DI, G35 Sport, C300 Sport and 328i with Sport package in their January 2008 issue.

    Interesting why the Lexus IS was not a part of the above comparison?
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Me too. I have no desire in driving a heavy elephant with sneakers. A lot of wasted money IMO.

    Indeed, especially considering there's usually an "AMG appearance" package for the regular cars, and you can just remove the "550" on the back and replace it with "65 AMG". Nobody would be able to tell.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,331
    I have no rear-seat passengers.

    My misanthropic personality and ultra-risk-taking driving style have successfully insured that two seats is usually one seat too many for me!
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Interesting why the Lexus IS was not a part of the above comparison?

    That's a good question. There is reason to invite it back since I think there's some kind of new sport package available since they last tested it. I'm also not sure if you could shut down VDIM in their older tester like you can now.
  • 2001gs4302001gs430 Member Posts: 767
    How about being unique in an excessive way? These car owners are the type who also has annual property tax bills in the 6 digit figures as well.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Well, LG you know that it's easier to be objective when you are looking/advising on car purchases. When it's your own car, one tends to do irrational things to justify one's preference(s).

    It's hard to say, as I have different priorities and preferences depending on what I'm going to use the car for. When I left M-B for Lexus, I was willing to give up the M-B ride and handling for Lexus service and reliability. That's because I needed a car to get me to work. I never need to depend on my weekend car, so I could care less that the SC430 is more reliable than the competition. Its a terrible car.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,331
    "Why not the Lexus IS?"

    "We assembled three $38,000 sports sedans with manual transmissions, sport packages, and a REAL chance at toppling the German (328i). Those qualifications kept cars such as the Lincoln MKZ (no manual) and the Lexus IS250 (too slow) from competing." Source: Car and Driver, January 2008 issue, page 36.

    Yup. Wrap me up a 328i sedan as tested for July 31st delivery. :)
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    ... I selected the Accord because several reviews have said it is fun to drive. ...

    They will probably not change the steering as the vehicle is mostly bought by older drivers.


    The reviewers have always said the Accord is "fun to drive." It never has been fun to drive. I guess it "feels" fun to drive to them because they're driving what the crowd is driving, and when you do what "the crowd" does, you feel accepted. I "feels" fun to be accepted. But from a dynamics perspective, there's nothing fun at all about an Accord; in my experience, anyway.

    As far as Accords being bought by "older people," how old are you? I can't say that I recall ever seeing anyone much past their 30s/40s driving Accords. "Older people," as in senior citizens, usually drive tanks; Crown Vics, Grand Marquis, et. al.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    I can't say that I recall ever seeing anyone much past their 30s/40s driving Accords.

    I've seen many seniors driving Accords, BMW 3 and Scions.

    The days when seniors mainly bought big boats like the Grand Marquis are over. When I turn 60 I will be driving my urban-oriented, style-conscious Honda Element and I will be participating in many extreme sports activities with hopefully my bone structure intact . :shades:
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,331
    In Florida, most Accords seem to be driven by the senior set. I know it is the number one seller on Long Island. So many conservative, middle-age folks are driving it too. Plenty of Grand Marquis and Buicks down here too. The popular luxury choices down here are anything Lexus-with special prominence given to the RX 350 and ES 350.

    Yup. Totally agree with you. I felt puzzled after leaving my test drive of the new Accord. There was nothing fun about it.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,331
    I forgot to mention in my review of the 2008 Accord EX V6, that the rear-view mirror's shape looked like something out of a pimp mobile-quite weird-looking to my eyes.

    Also, I should mention that the "ECO" light when it comes on in in daylight anyway is so weak as to be barely noticeable.
  • vchiuvchiu Member Posts: 564
    Well, I tried to translate the German text into English as faithfully as my limited knowledge of both languages allowed me to. If you have a better translation, your kind contribution will oblige.

    I did not take position when translating, however if offered the choice, I would go for the Continental, preferably in limo version. In Europe except Britain maybe, Bentleys are clearly a rare sight compared to Benzes. With some VW/Audi Engineering help, there is no reason to think the quality would be behind a MB.

    I feel really good when I see the inside fit and finish of the bentley, and the cosy style is more welcoming than that of MB. I have a bias for British brands, even though I know the truly British content is restricted.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Source: Car and Driver, January 2008 issue, page 36.

    Thanks. I got that page etched in my memory until I visit my nearby bookstore. ;)
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,331
    No wonder you have a 335i!

    Saving all that money on car magazines!! Heh! Heh! ;)
  • vchiuvchiu Member Posts: 564
    >its limited to 155, just like the "pedestrian" CL.

    According to the article, the governor can be pushed back to 300 Km/h (186 mph) upon request.
    Do we have roads in the US that would allow us to taste those 30 extra mph? Would be great news.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Bentleys are clearly a rare sight compared to Benzes.

    Here in Toronto they aren't rare at all. I see many Bentleys especially Flying Spurs.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    still don't understand the point of those big V-12 AMG cars

    Me too. I have no desire in driving a heavy oversized elephant with sneakers. A lot of wasted money IMO.

    My neighbor has one of those. Really nice guy and an enthusiast. His wife drives the '08 Range Rover, and he drives the SL AMG as well as the S-Class AMG. His daughter drives a C-Class and for large groups he has the extended wheelbase Escalade with the third row, and it has a TV monitor for EVERY passenger, including the driver (overkill, IMO). He also owns his own limousine and some other cars I can't remember at the moment.

    Anyway, just before Thanksgiving, we had dinner together and I asked him why he didn't just get the S550, and why he got the AMG. His answer was quite simple. He said that when he had test-driven it, it was quite obvious to him. I don't have his exact words here, but he described the engine's power as being delivered in a very smooth and readily-available fashion that was beyond any of the other engine's capabilities.

    I would imagine that if one can afford it as easily as he can, then perhaps there is a genuine driving experience to be said for the 12-cylinder AMG.

    Personally, I would not buy one, but I did find it interesting to hear my neighbor's legitimate thoughts on his purchases.

    I will never buy a gas-hog again, no matter what the circumstances are. I find it difficult at times to wait sooooo l-o-n-g for a nice selection of diesel-powered vehicles to show up. But, we are getting closer all the time.

    BTW, speaking of diesels (which I love to do... surprise!), recent reviews have inferred and even outright stated that the "BMW 123d is the world's best diesel vehicle". That's quite a statement!!

    TagMan
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    ... The last time I looked, Toyota wouldn't build you a top-of-the-line Camry with 3 pedals, but you can buy an EX-L Accord with a 6-speed stick. ...

    And neither would Honda. An EX-L V6 w/ Nav is the top-of-the-line Accord, and you couldn't get that with three pedals until '06/'07. And I think they even dropped that option for the latest one. :(
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    that our main focus is LUXURY vehicles. How about we give the Accords and the Camrys, etc., a rest for a while. We have other places where we they can be discussed.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Good idea, Pat!

    BTW, I just noticed that your post is number 12,995.

    By the end of the day, you might just hit the lucky 13,000 post mark. If it's not a record, it still deserves a congratulations!!!!! Remember, afterall, you did start on April 13, 2001.

    That's quite a lot of dedication to the website... especially for such a soft-spoken reserved individual like yourself. ;)

    Hopefully, we will be honored to see your 13,000th post right here on the Luxury Lounge!! :)

    TagMan
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    I felt puzzled after leaving my test drive of the new Accord. There was nothing fun about it.

    Go drive say eh a non-SE Camry first then the Accord.

    Let me know if you still don't see the fun to drive factor.
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