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Comments
Not at all.
However, at the same time I do acknowledge that the IS does have a really small rear space. But since 99% of the time my rear seat is empty that's not too big of a deal to me. The last time I had passengers in my back seat was back in May which 2 of my buddies rode in the back in the trip that we took from Melbourne to Orlando.
The IS actually has a "tight" cockpit feel compare to 3-series' "open" feel. I prefer tight over open which gives me a sense of "in control".
To each of his own I guess.
By unsupportive, do you mean in terms of lateral support for sporty driving? I wouldn't want Volvo seats in a 911, but for highway cruising, they are absolutely fantastic. Lexus seats in my opinion are just average. The Recaro seats in the Audi S cars are probably the best support/comfort balance available in any car I've driven.
How about a luxury performance Subaru.
Audi does not compete with mainstream bling like MB and BMW as Subaru does not compete with mainstream conventional cars from Honda and Toyota. Both Subaru and Audi caters to a niche. Audi is defined mainly by Quattro and its industry leading "interior fit and finish details while Subaru is defined by its AWD system and its Boxster engine over there.
Audi and Subaru do just as well in Vermont USA as in Europe. When I had visited Vermont I was surprised by the overwhelming numbers of Subarus and Audis despite the fact that other marques offer AWD autos. I hardly ever saw MB 4Matics or BMW Xi AWD vehicles.
How about a luxury performance Subaru.
Yeah, I can see that. The thing is though, Europeans don't have that perception, there Audi is an equal player in terms of sales and market. Subaru cars there though are just like they are here.
the price, look at the price. For the price the Accord is not bad at all. IMO in terms of bang for the buck the Accord and the hybrid Camry are the two best cars in their segments.
Because it is against the hard cold fact.
It's understandable if you claim that you can't find a comfortable driving position in the Accord but can in the 328i because everyone has an unique driving position. The Bimmer's extra movements of the seat and steering wheel also could contribute to that. Other factors include the windshield height, dashboard and center console styles and positions.
However, to say that the 328i has more legroom than the Accord is just flat out contradict with the fact.
I think we've pondered that questions before.
I like the design of the IS. That's one sexy-looking beast.
My son-in-law came here with a Volvo wagon rental last year. I didn't want to leave the driver's seat. Very nice, indeed.
Uh... maybe you misunderstood me. When I said "tight" it's a sense of feel (or should I use "environment" instead). Maybe "closeness" is a better word to describe it in compare to 3er's "openness".
Again, it's the feel, not the actual size.
If you're buying it straight-up (which Mark, among others, says is beyond stupid), the difference becomes more manageable.
Yes I do. At least we are on the same page on this one.
I would also agree that Lexus seats are average because they are a good balance between comfort and supportive but not excellent at either. However, after a long drive say more than 5 hours I am always extremely thankful to my "average" Lexus seats. I learned this from my 4-day experience with the 350Z not that long ago...
The only thing I would change about the Lexus seat is to add the extended thigh support like ones on the Bimmer and Infiniti.
Also a good point. While I wouldn't buy a new Audi, I would consider buying a CPO one and holding on to it for a few years. Their reliability has improved to the point where as long as it was under warranty, I wouldn't worry about it.
I had quite a bit more legroom in the 328i.
Say what you wish. I actually compared the two.
Look, I've been doing stuff like this for quite a while and for my 6'2" torso, I had more legroom in the 328i driver's seat than the Accord's. The stats are meaningless to me because I proved to myself through hands-on experience that they are wrong. It wouldn't be the first time.
Don't read me stats. Get out there and do what I did. Take a tape measure with you. Then come back and we will discuss it.
You must be the only person I know who like driving in 1st gear and riding the clutch with the left foot for periods of 30 minutes or more on a daily basis.
In all honesty I dont see how a IS350 would improve my daily errands nor do I see how a IS350 would improve your errands?
The point here being that you probably do most of your driving in the 335i when there is actually open road i.e. on the weekends. That might distract you from missing the nice luxury features not offered by BMW. The IS350's ML is one of the best stereo systems out there for this car class. Heated/cooled seat is another huge plus when sitting for extended periods. The true hi tech push-button-start/stop of the IS make the BMW attempt laughable. IMO, the 328i interior is nice but too bland comparing to the IS. While I did not have leather in my 328i, my IS has the best leather quality that can only be matched by those offered in the 7 series. One of my favorite features in the IS is the light sabre like tach/speedo needles performance at the start of the engine. I am sure there are more features that I will discover as I learn more about the car, and IMO, my non sport IS350 give nothing in the driving dynamics to a non sport 3 series.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
The IS, OTOH, I found very unsettling and overly stiff in 350 form. It attempted to take a page from the 3-Series, and failed miserably in the process of doing so.
You must be referring to sport package cars. I never drove one so I am not qualified to comment. However, my non sport IS350 gives nothing to the 3 series in ride and handling mix. On top of it, the car is more quiet at cruising speed that make the awesome stereo even more enjoyable.
I don't know about Long Island traffic these days, but when I was there for 6 mths back in 2002 at Garden City, the traffic was nothing compare to mine in the Greater Toronto Area. The fact that you can drive fast enough to worry about nasty ruts upsetting your wheels shows that you probably don't often drive in real grid locked traffic where your speed is usually btw 0-15 mph for 30 minutes at times.
Mr H, are you afraid that you might like it? Lou is 6.1 fitting in the IS with room to spare, so I am sure you could too.
I actually leased a 328i based on the good lease deal and lots of raves from this forum. That was before I test drove the IS and the rest is history.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
So, you prefer the IS to the 328i. The stats indicate that the 328i should provide the better overall ride, but I don't really care about the stats. Real-life anecdotal reports from folks like you do mean more to me than the numbers.
What I find puzzling is that when I provide just this sort of real-life hands-on report, other posters fall back on the numbers and call me names.
Don't mein postz meen anyting?
Well, then I should get my 6'2" well-proportioned 53 year old body inside of an IS forthwith.
Ya see when you interact with me, I don't get defensive and call you ugly or elderly even though a thorough statistical analysis indicates you have a good chance of being both. I will consider your experience impotent... er...important.
My butt meter tells me that my old '97 Honda Accord I4 is much faster than the 325i I test drove...
:P
What more is there to say :confuse:
As long as we are all satisfied driving what we drive.
Audis. BMWs. Porsches. All fine German vehicles. Among the world's best.
What is really left to discuss? :shades:
The weather ?
Edit: Well dang, you're about to win the award for most edits in fewest minutes! Maybe the "weather" isn't specifically addressed there at the moment, but feel free to start it up!! :P
Thanks for the award. :surprise:
Agree. Now you can start picking on Audis and Subarus.
This is what happens when I bust my butt in the Florida heat going from the Honda dealer to the BMW dealer to sit in both the 328i and new Accord and share my thoughts with you guys and instead of appreciating it, am told that what I found doesn't match the holy "statistics". :surprise:
Didn't one luxury car manufacturer claim only last year a "statistic" for 0-60 mph time that Car & Driver couldn't duplicate, yet they tried again and again?
Since when have published "statistics" been relegated to Holy Grail status?
Coming back here again, I really must ask the wife to cook up some of her potent rum cake. Very light on the flour.
Yes thats true, but the 1 series that was compared was the older model.
see for your self.. http://youtube.com/watch?v=wREuKF16a_U
http://youtube.com/watch?v=GW1mly9OllA
Aston Martin DBS on TopGear.
Among them:
Honda Accord Coupe/Sedan
Porsche Boxster/Cayman
BMW 3 Series
Interesting what was not chosen: No vehicles from Toyota, Lexus or Infiniti.
Herzlichen Gluckwunsch BMW und Porsche! Great going!
Well, at least the G made it last year, and its still being honored along with the 3 series in many best lists. C&D isn't always right, the Acura RL was never best at anything, and I don't think the Mustang GT is a particularly great car.
For those that might be interested, the 10-best winners going back to '83 are available here: 10-best Wiki entry
The only engine where this really applies is the 3.2L V6, which I hate. I hate that they replaced my beloved 2.7T--it was just unnecessary. And lo and behold, they're bringing forced induction back to the mainstream lineup! The B8 S4 will have a 3.0 V6, but nobody knows how it's going to be tuned. Twin-turbocharging, supercharging and even TwinCharging are all candidates. I'm rooting for the twin-turbos. It will have about the same power as the current model, possibly less, because it will weigh significantly less, be quicker and get better mileage without the extra power.
However, the way Audi positions its A4 lineup is confusing. They're all appealing, but if they push the S4 too low, there won't be any room for an A4 3.0TT to breathe. If they push it too high the B8 RS4's desirability will plummet... unless it gets a ridiculous amount of power. Which, I may add, they DID do with the 580hp RS6 Avant.
Maybe they should just get rid of the standard six-cylinder A4? That would solve a few things. It would able them to lower the price and spec of the next S4, making it even more competitive with the 335xi.
Combine that with mandatory AWD on all but the most basic models, and they're often noticeably slower.
That just isn't true. Their AWD systems are normally lighter and more performance oriented than the competition. Compare an A4 3.2 quattro (B7 OR B8) to a Euro-spec BMW 330xi (its true competitor--another sign that Audi doesn't care about the US!), and you'll see what I mean. With similar power outputs the A4 is quicker.
With other models, AWD is a non-issue. In fact, it can be an advantage. See S6... its handling is actually more confident than the M5's, and it has won in several comparisons despite its "lack" of power.
I have a feeling that Mercedes or BMW owners are more loyal to their brands, and are more willing to overlook unscheduled service visits than Audi owners.
I completely disagree. BMW and Merc owners are normally the kinds of buyers who flip back and forth to the new "big thing." For example, a friend had a 2004 745Li, and they dumped it the moment the S550 came out. I'm surprised they haven't gotten rid of their '03 SL500 yet, but they have eaten through two Cayenne S's. Most Audi owners, or Audi fans (big difference there), are fiercely loyal and love their relatively quirky products. I think I'll always have one Audi in my garage. The new X5 does look good next to the S4, though...
How many people are there who had to get ignition coils replaced, electrical systems fixed, or brake rotors replaced constantly, and will never go near an Audi dealership again? .... The last A6 on the other hand...
This is surprising to me. I knew there were problems, but for some reason my '00 A6 2.7T was never plagued with any. The worst I encountered was the headlight washer cap flying off at high speeds on the highway. Perhaps that's why I keep going back to Audi, but I have yet to encounter an unenjoyable experience with the ones I've bought. I expect the same from the rest of the models I buy, as it's only uphill from here... and when you're thinking of dumping $100K on an S8 it had better be amazing.
Finally, I still think bad advertising has a lot to do with it. Audi ads are really terrible.
I agree! But to be honest I just don't notice them. The only ones I've really noticed are those for the '04 A8 ("The world's most intelligently designed car"), the S/RS ads and the ad for the new R8. Even my wife stopped at a page with the R8 ad on it... "What is that? It's beautiful!" She's not much of a gearhead. Although I must say I've taught her well.
So maybe they're learning.
I have to confess that I simply don't care whether or not they sell well here. As long as they never pull out of the US market and keep giving us most/all of the high-end models, I'm happy.
'08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet
I love my S4 Cabriolet. My baby. But that doesn't mean I don't want a BMW, Porsche or even another Audi to complement it!
I am also loving our new X5. It looks great, drives like a dream and has some of the best leather I've ever felt in a car. Napa is a must-have if anyone is ordering one.
'08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet
Btw, you've got a good thing going with retiring at 53 and doing your own things( I hope to be doing the same in about 10 years), so enjoy you rum (cakes) and be happy.
This is year 22 for the Accord on the list. Very impressive.
Even though my comments have been negative, I have to drive one just to see what C&D sees in the Accord.
After all, I am a subscriber.
BMW has always saved its best interior for the X5. Sure wish I needed one... but I don't.
Next time around, it will be smaller is better-some version of a 3 Series sedan.
I only sit in and drive vehicles I read good things about and am interested in either purchasing or leasing and the Accord was on that rather short list. There is nothing in it for me to deliberately skew or make up anything. I wanted to like the new Accord and will still drive one because C&D obviously sees something there.
I invite anyone to lower each driver's seat and then move it back to the end of its seat travel. My left leg practically straightens out in the 328i, but cannot in the Accord EX-L V-6 Sedan. This has nothing to do with the adjustable steering wheels-purely the amount of maximum adjustable left leg legroom for me.
The dealerships in my area for Audi are generally horrible with a profusion of 'used car salesmen' types on the lot and service bays that are only a match for the non-lux brands.
Compared to the effort that BMW/ Mercedes/ Lexus puts into their dealerships (again, speaking for my area) the Audi dealerships are not even in the same league.
You have no reason to defend your findings at all. I, for one, appreciate hands-on info that is shared here. Personal real-life experiences have great validity.
How is leg room measured scientifically, anyway?... From the bottom of the seat back or the front edge of the base?... At what height? At what angle is the base? At what angle of recline is the back? How deep is the base, as they are not the same in all cars?
Way too many variables, IMO, to measure with any precision.
Thank you for reporting your findings.
TagMan
Yeah, thats really what I was referring to, that and the base 2.8 and 3.0 V6s in previous A6s, which really just did not have enough power. Most of Audi's sales are 2.0T A4s, and 3.2 A6s, which could use more horsepower. When I said AWD makes them slower, I meant vs. a RWD BMW, Benz, or Lexus. A friend of mine has an '04 A6 2.7T S-line, which is at least a half second faster (and feels a lot faster) than the current 3.2 A6. Their new 3.0TT should be excellent, and I'm already a fan of their 4.2 V8.
I have heard that Audi is going to at least triple their marketing spending in the states, hopefully it will bear some fruit.
link title
It would be nice if more folks would come around here with some useful hands-on comments about the vehicles, instead of taking pleasure in criticizing those who take the time to do so, armed with no anecdotal information for useful debate.
Who buys a vehicle based on "stats"?
Thanks for the info, that's all good and dandy. However, I have 2 questions:
1. Do you drive with the driver's seat at lowest level and all the way back like you have described it?
2. Is that the most comfortable seating position to you? If not, were you able to find one in the Accord?
"Yes" to #2(A), "Not a whole lot of time" to #2(B).
Since C&D has such confidence in the new Accord, I do plan on sitting in another EX-L V6 sedan. I will try all seating possibilities and report back. That's all I can do.
C&D likes it... it's worth another try.
It should be noted that for the majority of folks, the Accord will fit just fine.
I am speaking as a tall guy. The average height in NA is surely not 6'2".
Also, as TM notes, someone at 6'2" with a different torso may feel quite comfortable.
Having a car fit me is always a major problem. I am "all legs". Can't blame Honda for that.
HYBRID cars made immediate headlines nearly a decade ago, when Honda and then Toyota introduced models that offered drivers moon-shot improvements in fuel economy and exhaust emissions.
Today, those leaps of progress are proving tough to repeat: as new technologies develop and gasoline-electric powertrains become available in a wider range of models, the gains over existing hybrids seem more incremental than startling.
And even when new twists in technology do arrive — developments that include plug-in hybrids, which can be recharged on household current to give them more driving distance on batteries alone — it may be impossible to give buyers a measure of how much the advances help because there is no test to measure their mileage.
A recent drive in Japan of a prototype Toyota Prius plug-in hybrid demonstrated both Toyota’s progress in developing vehicles that make more use of their electric drive systems and the challenges in bringing them to market.....Please refer to link below.
NEW YORK TIMES