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Comments
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
So if some1 wants luxury and status like the 7 series and S class there is no fun to drive thats what ur saying??
Check out the facial expression of someone driving a 7 Series or an S Class: It's DOUR!
Can u be a little specific.??? (its DOUR :confuse: )
What difference does the sports package really does???
whats the difference with the sports package and without it?
in detail plz i am not not to aware abt this sport package thing. abt the x3 and x5?
Did u sort out what the problem is abt the steering problem?
stay away from the sport package???
same for the x5? dont take the sports pack?
What will be the most comfort tires 17 or 18in?
If you've been following the High End topic all you need to do is click on the "Last" link on the page bar to skip all the messages you've already read.
Just looked at my schedule for next week. Could be too busy for the X3 test drive, but if I can fit it in, I will. Otherwise the following week looks much better at this point. I really don't have much intention of driving the RAV4 V6. I don't like that vehicle at all. I checked it out recently at the Toyota dealership when I bought the FJ.
I realize the leases are good on the X3, but I'm considering trading in the FJ and just paying the balance on a well-negotiated price. But first I must drive that X3, and go from there. I may want to check out the LR2, as it is so new and interesting, but I have just read that it is extrememly likely to be a model with a short life-span before it is totally shelved.
TagMan
I have not driven any of these vehicles recently. When I drove the X5 with sport package in 2005, I found the suspension jarring; that is, I really felt the bumps.
When I get my X3, it will be without the sport package; but I do like the idea of the 18" wheel upgrade.
The best advice I can give you is to go to a BMW dealer and drive an X5 with and without the sport package and find out for yourself.
TagMan
You want a performance sedan with a badge, the incomparable BMW 3 Series fits the bill.
As for me, I would bypass the sport package, upgrade to nice 18" wheels and order the comfort seats like I have on the 545i, which are the best seats I have ever experienced in any vehicle.
By the way, unlike the MDX Sport, the X3 can be ordered with front and rear parking sensors (standard on my 545i).
So, is there confirmation that there will or won't be a diesel in the X3 for '08?
TagMan
And whats the direct way to get here
I think I've found my vehicle.
TagMan
ms09,
copy and paste this link to your "favorites" or bookmark or save it in your browser:
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/WebX/.f0ef86f?displayRecent
or click on the link, then copy the address from the web page that opens, and then paste it in your favorites or bookmark or save it in your browser. Hope that helps, my friend.
TagMan
Tagman gave you one way to get here, but that way will always show you the last page of messages no matter what you've read previously. If you want to see messages beginning with new ones, use the Track this Discussion link at the top and then use Read New Messages on the left or bottom to get here. Check out the Help file at the bottom of the page.
But if diesel fuel is as hard to find then as it is now (45 mile round trip to fill up!!), I will pass on the diesel and go for the gas.
I had my 5 year old grandson here over Easter and he had a blast changing the colors of the X3 on the BMWUSA "build your BMW" part of the website....come to think of it, so did I!!!
I am favoring the silver gray metallic. My last 2 BMW's have been titanium silver, and I have had enough of that color for a while.
Only 24 month leases from now on. Too much exciting technology to be locked in for 36 months.
I like the gun-metal (silver-gray) metallic as well. Also the Platinum Bronze might be nice, but I'm not as sure about it. I don't mind the Titanium silver, but I've had a lot of silver cars over the years, and like you, there comes a time to make a change.
for me... diesel sounds cool.
TagMan
Should be one fast cute ute!
Edit: I just googled the engine and discovered that the BMW twin-turbo diesel is the winner of the International Engine of the Year Award!... Wow!
TagMan
Should make one powerful X3. At recent check, the closest diesel fuel is now "only" 30 miles round trip. Getting closer.
That is obviously one incredible engine and I would love to test drive any BMW that gets it to at least experience it first hand.
The next generation 5 Series will have a lane-departure warning system which makes the steering wheel vibrate if one forgets to signal when changing lanes.
What will they think of next? :surprise:
And also thanks pat..
Hpowders thanks ur replying regularly\
U guys here r really interested in bmw's so am i.
I don't think u guys here r much interested in mercedes.
I used to like the new cl class very much but its sooo expensive and the length its bigger than a large suv or abt the same.
The case for change is weak without improvement. Different isn’t better. Better is better.
I have been interested in BMW's since the Bavaria and 2002 models from around 1970, and have leased 3 BMW's since 1993: two 3 Series models and now a 545i.
I hope you visit a BMW dealer and get to drive X5's with and without the sport package.
If you do, I surely would be interested in reading your comments.
Thank you for participating.
Check it out if any1 wanna see
.
It's important though to not let a design just get tired, or to do poorly designed "re-imagined" versions of classics like the X\S\XJ.
That would probably be true for my wife, too... if I buy her an S550 4Matic (which I might have to do), she'll get hooked. Is that a good thing or a bad thing?
'06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet • '04 Lexus RX330
Here are two others I always loved:
First, the Duesenberg... this one is a 1929 Duesenberg Model J Convertible:
Second, the Jaguar XKE Convertible... this one is a 1968 XKE Roadster: (the XKE could very well be my all-time favorite)
And, this may surprise you D-man, and I believe LG hates the modern rendition, but I see the modern XJ Vanden Plas in my garage every day, and still understand why my wife likes it so much. Here's a modern XJ that I like... the XJ Super V8 Porfolio:
And here's the XJ Vanden Plas:
TagMan
I love the E-type as well, but only those with the original glass covered headlights (and even then still not as much as the XK150). The Super V8 Portfolio makes the best of a bad design. It's not an ugly car, its just an uninspired rehash. While I'm not a huge fan of the 750's looks, you certainly won't mistake one for a 740. The 750's shape is modern and takes risks. The XJ just seems like its still around 1996. The XF doesn't have that problem, and the sooner they can fix the XJ, the better.
I haven't liked the Corvette since the end of the '60s cars, but there's just something about that original '53-'55 that is just achingly gorgeous.
The new CXF is predictably very good. The ONLY issue I have early on is the front grill... and I have always been a believer in a very good front grill or frontal appearance. The CXF's overall look is so good that the front grill is absorbed and carried very well by the rest of the appearance, IMO.
BTW, I always liked Corvettes, even now, but I've been skeptical of their quality and interiors in the most recent 30+ years... that's a long time to distrust any particular car.
Glad to hear you also like the E-type. One of the sexiest cars ever made, IMO.
TagMan
Apparently the somewhat controversial grill on the XF is inspired by the original '68 XJ6, which is one of Callum's favorite designs, so it may be come a staple on future Jags. I don't think its any worse than the Audi grill.
TagMan
The Duesenberg isn't bad, but to me the big Benz tops it. What an incredible car.
I thought the fuel economy would be a little better than it is likely to be rated. Only 1 city MPG better than the LS460 and only 2 city MPG better than the LS460L and 5 HWY MPG WORSE than the LS460 and LS460L. This means that the average fuel economy of the LS600hL hybrid sedan will be WORSE than its LS460 brothers.
Add to that the fact that the acceleration of the LS600hL is one tenth of a second SLOWER than the LS460 and LS460L. It weighs in at an obese 887 lbs. more than the LS460L!
The LS600hL V-8 delivers only 9 more HP than the LS460 and LS460L V-8!! With the added electric motors, the total HP is only 438, and with that extra 887 lbs. of FAT, the car is ultimately SLOWER and burns MORE gas, not less.
Those 887 lbs of AWD and hybrid electronics FAT, come at a ridiculous price tag. The test car priced in at $111,715.
And there's more to getting less. It seems the trunk size of this LS600hL is 35% SMALLER than the trunk in its 460 brothers, at a mere 11.7 cubic feet.
Exclusive you might think? Think again. Beyond the powertrain fat, there is essentially no option that can't be ordered on the LS460L.
God bless Edmunds for telling the truth about this vehicle!
Read about it for yourself here:
link title
Some of you may not like this, but most of you will. And... I am once again very glad that ljflx got the LS460L instead of waiting in line to waste his money on an LS600hL. Of course he could have gotten the Mercedes S600, but that's another discussion.
TagMan
This car has the same problem that the GS450h does. Increasing efficiency by adding weight is an oxymoron. The GS450h is just barely able to offset its 400lb. weight increase with electric power, but it appears that the LS600hL can't even manage that.
It is worth noting that all of the other HSD engines produce less horsepower than the standard versions.
After some shotty work by C&D recently, this just makes for a murky picture. MW, R&T, and MT should produce tests soon enough. But C&D seems to contradict the Inside Line test. The IL test was very well done, BTW.
Regarding the price, it's hard to throw stones, as it is around $30k less than a comparable S600, plus adds AWD.
If the car wasn't AWD standard, which I oppose, you could add 2-3 MPG. Comparing apples and oranges to the 460L, as it does not offer AWD, which is a huge factor in both performance and efficiency.
It will be slower (noticably), but if it can get 20 MPG, is around 50% more efficient!
More news to come! :surprise:
DrFill
The fact that only 2000 of them are being built tells me that someone at Lexus agrees with me. I think the main purpose of this car is to satisfy some of the super rich Al Gore types so they can say they are saving the environment with somewhat of a straight face.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
You're clearly missing the point.
What can one be smug about driving something that truly is efficient, rather than just appearing to be? To post such a thing on Earth Day too. For shame!
And $33K more than the 460L which is the car it should be compared with in addition to the S550 4Matic which, at $14K less appears to be a steal in comparison. Throw that "600" designation right out the window. It's a grope.
I will admit that I am not convinced based on a lone Edmunds report and would like to see the spectrum of rag tests and comparos, but it doesn't look good considering the weight and specs on power output.
I think it's much worse. The factor that blows the similarity way out of proportion is the price disparity between their conventional models within the same platform. The premium on the LS 600h L is extreme compared with the GS 450h. Also the 450h held its own against the BMW 550i and costs less. At $14K more than the S550 4Matic, do you think it will compete with performance? Something tells me it won't even be close.
Doc, I'm afraid you may be the lone exception here, unless you are just holding out in the hopes that some other information will somehow change the picture. I can understand that, but trust me, it ain't gonna happen.
This LS600hL, regardless of the final numbers, is too FAT, and will NEVER deliver any mileage or performance figures that make its price tag worth the extra green over the LS460L. THAT car, the LS460L, is now the obvious true "value" in the Lexus lineup.
Don't worry, though... the LS460L is a fine machine that will give you plenty of ammunition to fight with.
And, you would be smarter to do so, than to defend the LS600hL.
TagMan
I vote for the SWB version. Let those in the back seat come to terms with it. ;-)
You're preaching to the choir if you are trying to compare the value/merit of the LS460 to ANY luxury car. That's not the issue.
The 600 is over $100k, has similar power to the 760iL, and has features not on the 460, so it is another class up. I don't see the point there. Comparing a stripped 460L to a 600h doesn't make much sense either. :confuse:
D-man, I don't see your point. Comparably equipped, both the S550 4Matic and 600h will be over 100k, and will have similar acceleration. Who's buying a s550 4Matic for less than 100k? The Mercedes will get 15 MPG, the Lexus 20 MPG, so the lexus will have an advantage, regardless.
The Lexus doesn't have the thrust of a S600, but it is going to be 50% more efficient, which is significant.
DrFill
Doc, my point is that it compares to the V8 luxury cars, and at a starting point of $104K it's overpriced. Now, if it steals S600 buyers then it works, but I am confident that situation will be an exception. Also if someone buys it for green reasons who would otherwise buy something that is more flagrant with emissions, then it works also... let's hear it for guilt-free opulence. But paying that premium for the fuel efficiency is not exactly rational.
Furthermore, an S600 buyer already made a choice to pay a lot of extra money for more performance and lesser mileage. What the heck does the LS 600h L offer to make him change his mind? And forget about the dubious 760il. BMW, Audi and Mercedes all have V8s and a V10 to compete with the Lexus... and beat it on price.
I suspected this would happen when a friend of mine bought an RX400H some 14 months ago. Virtually all their driving is around town, stop and go etc. but not really short trips. His wife drives it to work, probably 10 to 12 miles each way. This is supposed to be the sweet spot for hybrids, right? Well, over the 14 months they are averaging 22 mpg. For this they paid about an $8,000 premium. My old 2000 RX300 did about the same over the 3 years that I had it.
I guess I just have a very low opinion of all hybrids, not just the LS. None of them make sense to me.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460