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Comments
Maybe you have already done this, but if not, I would love to have your impressions. If you have, then good luck with your other choice.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
I do believe that the much-improved LX deserves a test drive. A very thourough test drive. I also believe that the LX is a nice piece of machinery, especially now that it has the i-Force 5.7L Tundra V-8.
I will definitely put it on the list now that you "forced" me into a challenge(lol)
And as to why there are not any small SUV's on the list, we agreed that if we needed a small SUV, we'd get a wagon instead, like an A6 Avant, 5, or E-Class. Oddly enough, she still likes the Dodge Magnum. Why? I have the slightest clue. Maybe it's the MBZ DNA baked into it's overall design...
Here are some of my thoughts from New York this year:
Starting w/ latest car of debate here, the TSX: Why Acura decided to take a step rearward in the car is beyond me. What is up with the Satun-inspired front end.? And speaking of Saturn, why does the $16K Astra or for that matter the $20k Aura have a nicer interior? And the '07 has 205hp, as opposed to the 201 that will be offered on this model. Those are 4 horses that the car couldn't give up in the first place. Yes, I know the A4 has a 4 cyl too. But Audi has 3 letters the Acura simpy do not: DSG. That is how this car moves out with V-6 like power. Another let down, and if the RL is supposed to be, ehm, 70 large, then
Acura has a serious situation on their hands. The TL and MDX may have to carry the brand for a while until Honda figures out how to steal the gearheads that are turning GM around, and turning GM's cars at the proper wheels
Nissan Maxima: A very nice upgrade over the '04-gen model. They've smoothen out the frumpyness that frustrated me with this car. And most importantly, they've re-introduced the 4DSC that I fell in love with. My 1992 SE 5-speed was a very tenacious car. It had what it took to compete with some of the very best cars of that era. They are back on track, and Nissan has really showed up with the interiors of their cars, starting w/ this one. It approaches the new Infiniti EX in terms of quality and assembly of materials. Impressive. But not quite as impressive as this. Myself, Tag, Esf, Dewey and all other diesel hopefuls: There will be one installed for the US in 2010, a new Renault-Nissan model that is already seeing duty in some other models of the carmakers in Europe. From what I here, it will approach MBZ and BMW for all-out power, efficiency, and quietness with fewer service intervals. We'll see. But to their credit, Nissan builds some of the best powertrains in the industry, repeatedly winning accolades for power, efficiency, and durablilty.
The MBZ GLK: Looks better in person. The windshield is really that vertical as it appears in the picture, but it attributes to class leading headroom and visibility, according to MB. There will be a diesel and the new Phoenix 310hp V6 will be installed, as well as the C-Classes 3.0L 221-hp V-6 on lesser models. No AMG is planned, although that may change if the reported plans of GmBH getting their hands on the new Tiguan.
Dodge Challenger: 'Nuff said. You've read it all, and it really is that menacing in person.
VW Passat Coupe: As Esf noted, it does look better than the std model. And VW says it drives better thanks to a reconfigured suspension and steering system. And it will host VW's upgraded 3.6L V6(SULEV now) and new 4Motion system. Sounds good.
Hyundai Genesis: While I still am not sold on the looks of the sedan as it looks sort of generic to my eyes, I do believe that Hyundai delivered on the goods. And they found out how to turn the proper wheels before Honda did. The Genesis coupe looks great, but it has it's work cut out for it. Mustang GT, new Camaro V8 and even the atheletic Honda Accord V6 Coupe, Eclipse GT,and Nissan Altima Coupe SE can all be had within $2k of the Hyundai, and all of those are well-established brands. As to the sedan, it will have less work to do(as crazy as it may sound). I think that, if pricing is right, things are going to be hairy scary for some of it's competitors. It can, in many instances, deliver a V8 where just about all others makers start with their 6-cyl.
The AM N-400 Vantage: Again, Aston delivers. At first glance, it appears that all Aston did was bump power by 20hp. But that is furtherest from the truth. It all begins with what's holding the car up. Aston says there has been a complete redo of suspensions, front and rear. New springs, shocks, control arms and more liberal use of aluminum should make this a more agile car as the 911 is still it's number one target. Hopefully this will make it a better performer as the 911 ran circles around the 380hp model, with the 911 having less power.
Now to the good stuff:
OMG, the Nissan GT-R: All that you've read about the visuals and some. I was a little apprehensive about that C-pillar "buttress", but now I can see the car without it. It gives it a bit of personality to seperate it from the Vettes and Porsches. And I was equally apprehensive about the interior. All I saw in the mags was a dark pit with a big screen in the dash. It seems that was either a bad shot or the interior has been rebuffed. I can't wait to drive it.
And let the shock and awe begin: Ponitac G8 GXP. Yeah, I know, it's a domestic, but that domestic has the goods, enough of them to be mentioned in the same sentence with AMG, Gmbh, and M. "WHAT ARE YOU SAYING BM!" I am saying reserve judgement for a visual test, and we all need to wait for a test drive. It has done what the too heavy and bloated Charger SRT-8 couldn't do: Provoke and sway the Euro buyer into the mist and comotion of what is going on in Detroit. Not Auburn Hills and DEFINITELY not Dearborn. GM has really made a serious comeback that Ray Charles and Stevie Wonder could see. As witnessed by the superior GMT-900's,, the newly invigorated Cadillac divsion, Pontiac's ascent into being taken serious, the fully respected Lambda-platformed crossovers, the continued success and expansion of the Corvette lineup, Saturn's impressive reinvention and great lineup. Now if they can get Buick and Chevy their big modern RWD-sedan, and get Buick a Velite-like convertible and get the ball rolling on the Camaro, there couldn't be much to stop them. I'm impressed.
I will have more to come. Stay tuned!
edit: I'll be curious to hear your impressions of the 12 mpg Toyota Land Cruiser.
TM
gfr
http://www.whnet.com/4x4/hybrid.html
But the RR has 20's and it rides like it has a carpet under it. And this is one of the very few factory SUV's that can't get stuck. The Cadillac Escalade has factory 22's and ultra low(for an SUV) 45 series tires, and it rides with aplomb, especially in ESV guise.
MB may need to retune the Airmatic to cope with the weight of the truck and unsprung mass of the wheels.
12mpg, eh? I wonder if the 5.7L has VVT or VVT-i, and does it have it on intake and exhaust? I say this because the bigger(and more powerful 403 v. 380hp) 6.2 Caddy gets roughly 13.5 to 14.5 in the city routinely. And as a sticking point, why does Lexus demand premium for the V8 as opposed to Toyota saying it runs on regular. I notice this with the 3.5L V6 also, where the 268hp Camry V6 runs regular but the clone ES requires premium for a paltry 4 hp gain. I know we don't buy these heavyweights for mileage and effieciency, but in light of today's fuel crunch and energy crisis, we have to get things under control. WHERE ARE THOSE DARN DIESELS????
I would lean twords the RR , as it looks like it is supposed to....Has a certain dignity to it....A heratige..
By the way I worked in a body shop last year of high school (summer) under a craftsman...I learned what ypur father meant about not sanding proplerly....Lead back then, before BonDo Tony
You are talking some history there brotherman. That was when you really had to work it.
I have the calluses on my hands to prove it. But it was so worth it, even though my hands looked like I was 100 yrs old when I was 20.
TM
Yes, the GT-R !! I had the same reaction to it. It is the real deal. So impressive in person. It will eat your R8 and my Carrera S for lunch and then even dance with the Z06! Not as sexy as its comps, but it's an attractive-enough animal that can not be overlooked.
It can go anywhere and hold its own. The GT-R has my fullest respect.
BTW, the weather here on Coronado Island is simply spectacular! My daughter just finished surfing. I just finished another "cold one", and I'm posting on the beach. Nice Easter, if I say so myself!
TM
When you are testing remember that you can vary the suspension settings to about anything that suits you.
And thank you for accepting the challenge!!
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
If you have, where is the review?
If not, WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR? :P
On the other hand some of my mutual funds seem to be taking my money, paying it back to me in dividends with a corresponding drop in principal. So they are, in effect, paying me my own hard earned money and I get to pay taxes on it... again!! Maybe a new car is not such a bad investment after all!! :sick:
Plus I would never buy the LX until I hear what Hemi has to say!
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
I think it is fair and noble of Hemi to check it out, but it's no RR in the "looks" department. And it still has those Mickey Mouse flip-flop rear seats that power-fold over the rear windows. And... It's still a Toyota Land Cruiser with a few trim differences.
I will be absolutely shocked if he were to buy a Toyota instead of that gorgeous and distinguished RR, or even instead of a Mercedes GL.
I anxiously wait to hear about this. You have done a good thing to prompt this comparison.
TM
Personally, I am interested in Hemi's reaction to the Lexus-styled TLC.
If we haven't heard a test drive review from Houdini in a while, maybe he owes us one... hint, hint!
BTW, I didn't see you when we drove through L.A. We're heading back that way towards the end of the week. I'll be on the lookout again!
TM
Edit: I'm thinking that since we're in Mexifornia down here, we should get some authentic Mexican food tonight. Hope the kids like Margaritas... LOL!
Oh yeah tag, sorry that I had disappointed you since I haven't gone out much this weekend.
I have seen the TLC but not driven it. It looks pretty good. I guess I do owe you guys a test drive but I really hate to waste someones time when I am not hot to buy something....but I will check this week and see if there is an LX that is available to drive. That is only fair since Hemi took me up on my challenge. We can compare notes.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
If this is any indication of the future...
I think its very likely that their center stacks at least will remain atrocious for the near future. Honda/Acura seems married to this new design of a center knob surrounded by 50 buttons. What was wrong with their old touch screens? Not annoying enough?
I am no fan of the GL. The interior of the TSX isn't up to its price tag, and neither is the GL's. Really disappointing on the inside, and whose to say that an Alabama Benz's quality will be any higher than the RRs? I second that the LX570 is definitely worth consideration. Is the Q7 off the table? Dodge Magnum? Really? Wouldn't one of the really hot German wagons be a bit nicer?
As houdini said, most are all sold when they come in, and if not, they're not letting them go out on elongated tests. And yes, they're super loaded. I never thought I'd see a $90k LX before. But yep, there is one @ $89.8k .
I will give it a thourough wringing and report my findings.
This could end up to be as interesting as any review I've read.
A $90K Toyota SUV! :surprise:
TM
The A4 has some torque as well. The TSX only has 170 some ft.lbs, and it needs to rev all the way to redline to get to its peak power. With Infiniti moving to a 7-speed autobox next year, I think that will leave Acura as the only luxury brand without at least a 6-speed in their cars. Not good. You can get a 6-speed in a Chrysler minivan now, but Acura still can't do one?
And let the shock and awe begin: Ponitac G8 GXP. Yeah, I know, it's a domestic, but that domestic has the goods, enough of them to be mentioned in the same sentence with AMG, Gmbh, and M.
Most of the reviews of the Vauxhall version of the G8 have been pretty positive in the Euro press. It's still not really an M5 or RS6 killer, but its a heck of a lot cheaper than both of those cars and a heck of a lot nicer than the Charger, thanks to Aussie spec interior trim. The question is, is it enough to hold the line for the few scraps that are left of GM's "performance" division? I'm not so sure. Look what happened to the once "red hot" Solstice. Other than the G8, Pontiac is a mess, it costs Saturn more to build those Euro transplants than they can sell them for, and all of the Lambdas put together can't outsell the Edge/MKX, let alone Highlander and RX. There's still a lot of work left to be done at GM.
That's why it's called the Luxury "Lounge."
Are you working on a deadline? :confuse:
Does any1 know when will there be a redesigned of the RR and the RR sport ?
Why is ford selling RR and jaguar are they having a big lost having these 2 brands?
Acuras(Most Hondas for that matter) have never been known for being all out torque monsters. Although they build some pretty sweet powertrains, they never account for the weight of vehicles when producing them, hence the torque that is needed to keep engines out of the high end for decent acceleration. And to their tranny issue, it is pretty severe right now. It was only about 5 years ago when if you had a 5-Speed, you were really in the know. But my, how things change in 5 years? GM is even kicking the 4-speed transmission for 5 and 6-speeds across the line.
Speaking of GM, yes there is still a ton of work to be done. But what I was doing was merely stating where they were just a few short years ago to where they are now. LG, you know I was never one of the proponents of GM, way back in '05-'06 win they lost everything but the kitchen sink. Let's go by division to see what has happened, and what needs to happen:
Buick: There is a lot of work that needs to happen here. They must absolutely get a big modern RWD sedan going to replace the Luc. I Just as well, they've gotta kill that horrendous rental car they call the Lacrosse. I would also request a Velite-like convert or coupe be made to attract more buyers to the showroom. The Enclave is a good start. If it had more V-6 power or one GM's V8's, I'd take it over the MDX in a heartbeat. Buick gets a C.
Chevrolet: This is a mixed bag here. While the GMT-900's can speak for themselves, there are still issues with them. While the Silverado is what it is(a very nice truck), GM definitely goofed up the packaging on the Tahoe/Sub in terms of passenger seating in an attempt to rush the delivery in late '06. The Expeditions are much better in contrast. But when GM installs the 6L80 in their large trucks, it will have the powertrain efficiency and power wrapped up. I do have some praise thoough. When has a Malibu ever caused this much excitement? Never. This new model is a home-run. Sure there are detractors that will plead otherwise, I think it is absolutely in the same company as the CamAltiCords. All it needs is a Nav, and it will be good to go. They too need the large RWD sedan going because outside of the Impala SS, there is little to be excited about. The Cobalt already needs to be taken out back and put down. And they took away the SS s'charged model. Smart :mad: I guess the Traverse will get people in the showrooms... Chevy gets a B-
Cadillac: I'm impressed with where they are headed. I really don't care about being in the minority(I'm one of only 5 Audi owners here), but Cadillac is really shaping things up. The CTS is really it. It has posh and power to be finally taken serious by the Germans. No easy feat for a domestic. The "Art & Science" styling is stll polorizing to some, I think that it gives it some definition that many others in the class lack. The Escalade continues to stomp hard on the biggies. All others have to follow it's path due to it's celeb. status and bling factor, for better or worse. But it is a good performer for a big guy. While the XLR remains a blunder for them(why these are even still made remains a mystery), and the SRX continued slump(as good as it may be), I am excited that Cadillac took the hint and decided to conjoin the DTS/STS into one. The car will remain between 205"-215", according to Cadillac. WIth that, and given the proper powertrain choices and pricing, will it then compete w/ the S/A8/7/LS? I guess we'll have to see.. Caddy gets a B
GMC: The brand has done a swell job of differentiating itself from Chevy. The Yukon(particularly the Denali) has it's own style vs. the Tahoe. The Sierra(particularly the Denali) looks better than the Silverado. The Acadia is a very capable XUV, better than some well established models in some cases. They must however kill the Envoy, please... They also get a B
Pontiac: As much as you say they're a "mess", I see a bit clearer than that. The G8 is not the GTO. It serves as the basis of things to come for GM as a whole. The G8, particularly in GT and soon to be GXP form, deserves more credit than what has been given. Yes, the G6 is metal well wasted at this point, especially the convert. The G5, what the &U*)? A tarted-up Cobalt? And yes the Solstice. It looks good, but it doesn't have the polish of the MX-5 and Honda S2000, albeit only slightly behind the latter. But it still offers the most bang for the buck in that category, as crude as it may be. Pontiac gets a C
Saturn: The jury is still out here. I question the Ion's replacement, the Astra. It does look good, inside and out, but the powertrain choice available is paltry at best. Very bad decision considering what's available today. And the hatch-only style can only further the damage. The Sky receives the same as the Solstice, but it does look better. The Aura is in need of an identity. It is one of the really good cars thaet never get off of the ground because of it's annonymy. Sad case as it really is a decent mode of transport, but d-day came with the release of the cousin Malibu. The OUTLOOK thankfully replaces the Relay minivan. Saturn gets a C.
So as you can see, there aren't any A's given. But that's not saying much because I wouldn't give Toyota, Honda, Nissan, and no other make an A right now(outside of the exotics of course
BTW: I think the problem with GM's crossovers is that they're just too big. All of the CUV's that you named that outsell them are smaller, way smaller in some cases. Most people visiting a GMC dealership usually end up with the Yukon as the Acadia doesn't offer that much in the way of economy, design, ride-handling over the truck-based model. The Edge(as horrible as it is made) delivers a ride that is better than the Explorer. But it again doesn't have that all important 3rd row.
It's hard to compare the Lambda's with any of those lightweights, IMO.
Cadillac's "edgy" and "wedgy" design has been very successful for the division.
It's going to run out of steam soon. I'm doubtful that they are prepared for this. Instead, I expect they will hammer away at the same look until they beat it to death. Then they will be wondering, "What happened?"
TM
glad to hear that you're enjoying your 135i. The BMW population in the "Luxury Lounge" is beginning to explode . In fact the majority of regular members here own a BMW. I . IMO this forum is beginning to resemble a Roundel Fan Club. Being a contrarian by nature I may buy a Lexus just for the sake of forum controversy so I can provide an alternative view here.
This past week I've been driving a very boring automatic BMW 323i loaner since my BMW 335i fuel pump needs replacing. :sick:
Toyota Prius proves a fuel guzzler in a race with the BMW 520d
Coasting down the mountain into Geneva my Prius averaged 99.9mpg for a full 10 minutes. It was the highlight of my journey and improved my overall average fuel economy by a full 2mpg. But it was not enough. For all my defensive driving, slippery bodywork and hybrid technology, my average fuel consumption was 48.1mpg. I’d lost to a Beemer and I was disappointed; I had never driven so slowly or carefully for so long in my life. I’m considering buying a V8 Range Rover and opening my own oil well in protest
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Wow! Your dealership has loaners that old?? :surprise:
I hope they are prepared if/when it does go. But as someone here has already eluded to, the cars are already evolving into something more subtle. The CTS is a prime example. The front/back of the previous model was frumpy and non-linear at best. This models front/rear looks very smoth and asymetrical. They did pump up the sides if you look closely. Same goes for the Escalade. It went from it's super-square front end to a smooth-flowing design.
To put it more into perspective, let's look at BMW. Their flame-surfacing design language was and still is controversial. Even with that, they continued to use the design expression with all models following the '02 7-Series. Although most new models have less of it, it is still there. Even your 1-Series has reminants of it. But it is definitely toned down. The CS concept proves that you can take something that is not well-received and transform it into something that is a showstopper.
First things first, the look: Lexus has really stepped it up with the design of this vehicle. It may be that we were forced to look at the previous model for 11 years, but it is definitely a welcome departure from the '07. I like the restraint that Lexus used in not having any false or errant scoops, wings, vents, rails, excess chrome. None of that exsist. BUT: The LX still looks as though it is riding on it's tippy-toes, no doubt due to the short-for-class wheelbase. It really looks like a body-on-frame design, whereas the Escalade, RR, and Toyota's own Sequoia have a hunkered-down look. And I wish that Lexus would have given the LX a style all it's own, taking a page from GM with the Escalade from it's lesser siblings. But that is purely subjective.
Opening the drivers door: Upon entry into the cabin, there has been a real improvement into modernizing the LX into the new millenium. The choices of materials seem appropiated for the price. No surprise there given that this is a Lexus. The seats are a huge improvement. It seems Lexus/Toyota have answered the call of buyers who have longed for better seat comfort. They actually have subtle side bolsters. I wonder what is going on with automakers thinking as it pertains to ergonomics? It seems that have went from grouping all major HVAC/audio controls in a single knob/screen to having a pleathra of buttons. The LX is not the exception, but far from the worst of offender. That belongs to the Honda Accord. At least the buttons in the LX move with fluid motion, again not shocking. The seating position/driving feel marriage is wonderful. You seat high, but not so much that you can't stand it. In the rear seat area, thanks to new seat packaging, there is newfound room. But the 3rd-row must still be folded against the rear glass, affecting rear vision. Thankfully, the LX has huge side mirrors. I couldn't get over how quiet the HVAC system operated. In auto mode, there is this dead silence for about 5 secs, then this great whoosh of immediate hot or cold air on the spot. The fan is super silence. May be the quietest I've ever heard. Pursuit of More Quietness should be the slogan applied here...
Set out for a drive: My Lexus "representative"(sales person of course) was a young lad of a about 30. So of course he was full of spunk and adventure. When I set out for a drive he demanded that I floor it at the first stop light we leave. So, me being me, I did. "I wonder did Lexus install a supercharger under there", I replied. Although it doesn't move out with authourity like the Escalade(it has 21 more horses and is 350lbs lighter), 6.6 secs to 60 is very respectable. The 5.7L V8 and the 6-speed transmission communicate much better here than they do in the Tundra. It could be because this one is geared more for comfort instead of towing, but the shifts are transparent and the engine seems to work less and breathe easier here. The brakes faired well, though the pedal needs to be tighter(felt mushy) and they did not feel very linear. I think it's those darn Lexus nannies: The ABS may have cut in way to early. The re-worked suspension and new steering rack pays dividends to the improved driving dynamics. It feels much more precise and atheletic than the '04 CPO I rode in for comparison. And the stout solid structure is reassuring. As tall as it is, there is little in the way of cornering lean or sway when passing big rigs. And the quietness... This Lexus doesn't dissappoint. It makes the '04 seem like it doesn't have sound deadening when in reality it probably was the quietest in it's class of '04. There is none of that typical bobbing associated with truck-type SUV's. But I will state that it does not feel as composed as the RR and Escalade through the rough stuff, despite the heavier weight. My wife rode in the back seat intentionally to monitor the ride back there, and she says that it was just as flat as the front, again a welcome attribute given the latter-type frame. The outlook through the windsheild and side-glass while driving is as good as any, maybe about the same as the Landie. Of course these two vehicles see more off-road duty in Mid-East, Asia, and Afica, thus taller glass for seeing what's going on at the ground level. The overall driving impressions are positive. And it won't dissapoint the Lexus customer that relies on the comfort-mindedness of the brand.
Pros: Worthy interior craftsmanship, materials, and classic-Lexus design. Vocal(is this a Lexus?) and powerful V8, smooth-operator tranny, comfortable ride, adjustable suspension to suit any need, can tow 9500 lbs.(try that Escalade), absolutely tenacious off-road.
Cons: No fold-in-floor 3rd row, spacious-but not that spacious for it's size, 6k-plus pound curb weight blunts(a little) off the line accel, high-step in despite step rails and kneeling suspension. @ 3.91/gal for the recommended 91 octane, my LX says it slurps it at 10.6mpg. With a 24 gal tank, you will get to know your neighborhood convience store clerk by first name.
Fair and Balanced? I hope I'm better than Hannity and Colmes "fair and balanced" views of one presidential candidate.
You want to own one of those things? That's my only remaining question for now.
TM
To be fair, if the competition wasn't so good, we'd probably be driving one right now. But she looks to be leaning to toward that white/cashmere RR that she fell in love with, especially for the price that we can get it for.
But that is not to discount the LX. It retains the virtues that made it what is, and some newfound ones that keep it competitive in light of today's competition.
Probably after the wife divorces me and we divi up the property, I could probably get the DropHead Coupe.
Somehow, I am not surprised. I honestly believe you made the best choice... it's the one I suggested when you first asked.
TM
Thank you for a very fair and balanced review.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
More Good News Instead there will be a diesel Audi Q7
Not So Good News A Audi A4 diesel is still not approved and will likely be introduced far later than a Audi Q7.
IMO the most compelling diesel from Audi is the A4! Diesel Audi Q7 sales will be incremental and no big deal for Audi USA. HURRY UP!! BMW 3 Series Diesels are approved for N. America and will soon be here.
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If that happened to me I would end up with such assets as a 83 MB300D and the dining room Chandelier :sick:
Hope you enjoyed your trip to Charleston