Luxury Lounge

houdini1

Lou, I agree with you. The LS dash is cutting edge, drop dead gorgeous. On the other hand, nearly all BMW dashes are utilitarian and cheap looking plastic. Hard to tell one from the dash in a Mazda or VW.

tagman

I never posted that the BMW dash is cutting edge. I originally posted that the LS rear seat is preferable to me over the typical and dated front dash and center stack arrangement.

I maintain this. As nicely executed as it may be, it is nonetheless still common and boring. So many cars for so many years with the same old thing.

I'll still take the LS rear seat. It's drive is boring as well... If I'm going to be lulled to sleep by the LS, better off in that cozy rear seat!

TM

houdini1

I never posted that the BMW dash is cutting edge.

Neither did I. I posted that most BMW dashes are utilitarian and have cheap looking plastic. Just my opinion.

tagman

Houdini, in response to my post contrasting the desireability between the LS's front and rear seat, I find it no coincidence that you replied to Lou with a poke at BMW. I don't even know which model you are referring to... but it's obvious what your intentions are here.

Once again, shame on me for any critical remark about any Lexus... actually I was complimenting the LS600hL's rear seat.

BTW, I disagree with your view. I'll take the style AND drive of a BMW any day over an LS. The IS would be much more fun to drive than that LS... yawn.

TM

houdini1

Why do you feel like you owe me any explanation? As you said, my post was directed to Lou, not you.

You think the Lexus dash is outdated and that it is boring to drive. So be it. You have shared that with this forum many times so I am aware of your opinion.

My opinion about nearly all BMW dashes is that they are mostly slick, cheap looking plastic, especially in black. I also think that they are over priced, and that the I-drive is gimmicky and atrocious.

louiswei

The LS dash is cutting edge, drop dead gorgeous

Well, without considering anything else, in this class Lexus is the only one "got it right" while integrating the nav screen into the center stack like it belongs there from the very beginning. Kudos to them on that.

I like the aluminum trim on the BMW interiors but they seriously need to use something else other than black plastic for their center stack panels. I know those black plastics are high quality materials (I touched them before so I know) but they do look cheap at a glance. 3-series IMO is the worst offender of that out of all BMW models, even the entry level 1er isn't as bad.

tagman

Well... If you check, you'll see that Lou had replied to me. You interjected your remark about BMWs. It speaks for itself. Your opinion doesn't bother me, as mine obviously bothered you. You don't see me defending any sacred marque.

But, in reply, Lexus LS dash is well-executed, but too typical, and over-loaded with plastic. The LS drive is boring. The best seat in an LS600hL is in the rear massage recliner. Heck with the driver's seat!

TM

clembo

My reply is to Tag, Lou, and Houdini - I actually don't disagree with some of what Lou and Houdini say about BMW dashes, they are not as well executed as the rest of the car. The dashes and the interior overall is not one of the things that BMW does best. People who buy BMW's usually fall into one of two camps- buyers that buy them for the badge, and buyers who buy them for the way they drive. Most BMW owners on this board fall into the second group, and to us the trade off of a boring dash is more than made up for in the driving dynamics of the cars.

That being said I think what Tag said is correct about the LS dash not being special either, factor that with a dull drive and you see why an LS is priced less than the competition - it has to be.

tagman

Thanks... notice as you read through the posts that I have made no assessment of the BMW dash in any model. It isn't relevant enough to me, as they are more than adequate for cars with a bigger reputation for excellent driving dynamics.

A modern slushy luxury car, however, like the LS, that drives more like a magic carpet should have a cutting edge modern cockpit. Sadly, the LS dash is boring and dated, although ergonomically very functional. Might as well sit in the back and snooze.

In a BMW, give me the driver's seat, thank you!

TM

bmlexus

Very nice pics especially the x6 for me x6 is never enough since i saw it in person.

very nice indeed

BTW is the M steering much better feel then normal steering? can u get a M steering in a non M bmw?

houdini1

factor that with a dull drive and you see why an LS is priced less than the competition - it has to be.

Have you priced an LS600hl lately? I just looked at one today priced at $115,000.+. I wouldn't exactly call that the low end of the totem. Especially when you can buy a Bimmer for the low $30's. I guess there is a reason for that cheap looking dash! :shades:

tagman

I LOVE this!! Comparing a $115,000 LS600hL to the $30-50,000 BMW 1-Series!!!

It's not fair! The 135i will spank the daylight out of the LS!!

Such high expectations from BMW!!... and it's no wonder!

The lowly little 135i has received more positive reviews than the LS600hL EVER has. Then there's it's engine... also recipient of awesome accolades!

No... it's not fair to compare the LS600hL to the 135i... The 135i dances circles around that slush box... except for the rear seat, of course... The best place to sit in an LS600hL!! :P

TM

tagman

ALL-NEW BMW 135i NAMED 2008 AUTOSPIES.COM CAR OF THE YEAR

Woodcliff Lake, NJ – March 31, 2008 ... The all-new BMW 135i was named today by AutoSpies.com—one of the world’s leading automotive news sources and auto enthusiast forums—as the 2008 AutoSpies.com Car of the Year. The BMW 1 Series draws its inspiration from BMW’s iconic 2002 models of some 40 years ago, representing the core BMW philosophies of pure performance and premium design.

“The new BMW 135i has smashed the traditional paradigm of premium small cars trading performance for a lower sticker price,” said Donald Buffamanti, Founder of AutoSpies.com. “The sizzling 135i, in sleek coupe or convertible guise, is a no excuses pocket rocketship that does its spiritual brother, the beloved BMW 2002 proud.”

The powerful 135i Coupe and Convertible feature BMW’s twin-turbocharged 3.0-liter inline six-cylinder engine that produces 300 horsepower and an incredible 300 lb-ft of torque from as low as 1,400 rpm. With its direct piezo gasoline injectors, twin low-mass turbochargers and air-to-air intercooling, optimum performance and economy is achieved with no loss in engine response.

“BMW is honored to have the 135i named as the 2008 AutoSpies.com Car of the Year,” said Tom Purves, President and CEO of BMWNA. “The feedback for the 1 Series has been positively tremendous and as 2008 is ‘Year One of the One,’ it is all-the-more special to be receiving this honor for the 135i right out of the gate.”

In the eyes of AutoSpies.com editors, the BMW 135i sends everyone back to the drawing board and is a champion for its combination of styling, performance and bang for the buck. According to the editors, no other vehicle has the total package and cachet that the BMW 135i provides for the price, in the premium automotive segment.

BTW, AutoSpies.com is sponsored by Lexus!! How's that for a little timely irony! :shades: :shades: :shades:

TM

tagman

Especially to the fools.

TM

jlbl

I met a collection of Modenas the other day. I spied them for a while. Was it real? Was it daydreaming? Here there is some pics from my CarSpace.







http://www.carspace.com/jlbl/Albums/Ferrari%20Modena%20Parade/DSC00587.JPG/page/- - photo.jpg">





This was the spy



Regards,
Jose

lexusguy

A modern slushy luxury car, however, like the LS, that drives more like a magic carpet should have a cutting edge modern cockpit. Sadly, the LS dash is boring and dated, although ergonomically very functional. Might as well sit in the back and snooze.

Perhaps it might settle the argument to illustrate the point:

The old one:


The new one:


It just isn't that different. The new one has been tweaked, and it certainly looks nice. It's an evolution. It's not a game changer, and its not 1989 all over again. Compare that to this:




The Mercedes isn't a tweak here and a nip/tuck there. It's a radical reinvention. It moved the entire luxury game forward. The LS is none of those things, at least not in the front.

tagman

Brilliant catch, José!

Do you think it is a collection by one owner? Or is it a Ferrari owners club?

BTW, that architectural style is so appealing to me. It adds to the splendor and magnificence of the pictures!

TiAg looks good on your Bimmer!

Thank you for starting my day out so perfectly.

TM

tx_buzzard

Sorry for the delay, my world has been upside down these past few days. OK, regarding the added power.... another 24 HP and 20 ft lb of torque (minimum). I'll be at 384 HP and 380 ft lb of torque. Once their Stage 3 Software pkg for the new 550 is ready I will be adding that and the high-flow throttle body as well. I don't want to turn this into a racer, just want to open it up so it will breathe better and the added boost is icing on the cake!

tx_buzzard

Well I have always respected C & D's reveiws yet their take on the 135i is way off the mark! I mean they have no clue why the 135i is such a success. They reported that the BMW salesman must have a well lubricated tongue to sell the 135i against the 335i as they are lighter, don't have the bell & whistles and yet is almost as costly. Well duh... that is the point! People that buy the 135i want a smaller car without added options, with an engine that will allow them to whip it around in the city and toss it around on the back roads. A friend with a M6 test drove one and told me she was very impressed. C'mon, get a grip... try and understand why people buy what they buy. Each BMW Series is designed for a particular purpose, and that is not to compare model to model. I am sure this reporter has no idea people are ordering this vehicle without seeing or driving it, and the ones that arrive at the dealerships are selling fast. Where did this guy earn the opportunity to write for C & D? Must be a relative. :P

jlbl

Or is it a Ferrari owners club?

It is a Ferrari owners club. The funny thing being that none of the owners was above thirty year-old! The place is Landa Castle (Hotel & Restaurant) at the Madrid-Burgos highway close to the historic medieval town of Burgos. It is such an easily accessible, imposing scenario that owners clubs and classic cars rallies often meet there or make a leg stop.

Regards,
Jose

tagman

Excellent post. The pics really make the point and your comments are right on target.

Thank you, LG.

TM

tagman

I should make it a goal to visit there one day. There are so many beautiful sights to behold all around you! You are obviously a blessed man.

Perhaps a BMW or Porsche club!

TM

dewey

Where did this guy earn the opportunity to write for C & D? Must be a relative

I beg to differ.

First and foremost the 1 series is a great car and the very best in terms of its segment but not so wonderful when compared to the not so premium priced 3 series.

A 1 series a lighter car? Oh c'mon by a few irrelevant pounds? For such a small vehicle this car is a hefty slug in terms of weight.

C & D got 4.7 seconds on the 1 series ? Well if I am not mistaken C&D got 4.8 seconds with the 335i. A 0.1 second superior performance is not what I call superior IMO?

Also the 1 series is pug ugly when compared to the 335i coupe.

The 1 series sacrifices space especially rear seat space when compare to the 3 series. Roominess and daily use in a sporty package is what made the 3 series a popular car. The 1 series sacrifices space and is almost completely unpractical for a family man's needs. Great sacrifice for what? Minimal performance gains? Minimium price savings? Not enough in my opinion.

Stellar sales success of the 1 series is not proof of its greatness. The sales of the 1 series has to be stellar at this stage of its product cycle. Anything short of a stellar sales performance for the 1 series can be considered a failure for BMW.

BMW does not need a heavy and smaller 3 series called the 1 series. What BMW needs is a far lighter and more nimble 1series than what currently exists.. The BMW 2002 has not been reincarnated in the form of the 1 series at least not yet.

dewey

Aesthetics, strictly aesthetics. You think the MB S class interior is superior but I dont.

I think the Lexus interior is fantastic when compared to the new MB S class. What's wrong with evolution? Why reinvent the wheel MB style? Lexus has its own unique looks and that uniqueness looks great. Thank God Lexus is not so eager to imitate MB again.

Real revolution is the interior of the 02 BMW 7 Series? OUCH!!! Evolution would have been better for BMW. Although Audi 5000 during the 80s was revolutionary and is good example of how revolutionary change can be aestheticallly appealing.

lexusguy

Excellent post. The pics really make the point and your comments are right on target.

Thanks. The '02 BMW 745i and the '04 Audi A8 also brought sweeping interior changes that are much greater v. their previous gens than the LS. The LS460 isn't quite as bad as the '04 XJ8, which is so similar to its predecessor that it's hard to tell them apart, but it's certainly no XF vs. S-type.

Lexus interiors just haven't wowed me lately, other than perhaps the LX570's which is very nice. I've been much more impressed by Infiniti's latest work.

lexusguy

Aesthetics, strictly aesthetics. You think the MB S class interior is superior but I dont.

The Benz interiors were actually from the old and new CL. The point I was making is that I agree with Tag, the LS dash has a "been there, done that" look to it. They didn't take any risks or try anything new, they just restyled the old one. For something that was touted as a complete reinvention of the LS brand, well... where's the beef?

I am not a M-B fan, but I think the interior of the new CL is absolutely brilliant. It just oozes luxury, but it also brings a state-of-the-art sense of modernity that makes the LS look like a last generation product. For awhile Lexus interiors made M-B look like they were still stuck somewhere in the '80s. Now its the other way around, the M-B makes the Lexus look dated.

Real revolution is the interior of the 02 BMW 7 Series? OUCH!!! Evolution would have been better for BMW.

Absolutely! I didn't say the 7 interior was any good, but it sure was a revolutionary change and it influenced the entire luxury car industry. Compared to that the LS460 is just another Lexus on the inside.

tayl0rd

I hadn't seen it before, so it's new to me. Clickity-click!

tagman

Dewey,
The 1-Series isn't about weight... obviously. It's about the chassis and the size... and the drive, of course. For many, the 3-Series has grown too big and fat. For others it is just right. It depends upon the individual's needs. Also, the shift to the 3's more subdued and bland styling was done to simmer down the amount of Chris Bangle's influence on this latest rendition.

BMWs are about performance, as you have stated many, many times over the years. And the bottom line is that the 1-Series is a better performance car than the 3-Series.

But so what? It is ridiculous to pit BMW models against other BMW models. That is why there is a tier and model selection. For those that want a small and spirited performer, the 1-Series will delight... in spades. For those that want a good performer, but in a larger car with a little more room, the 3-Series makes an excellent choice. it is a fantastic value within the entire BMW lineup, IMO. Then there is the 5-Series, of course, for all of its virtues... and on and on.

As far as the style goes, you can say what you want about the 1er, but I personally think it is brilliant looking, and more exciting than the more muted less dynamic styling of the 3. But that's not to say that I don't like the 3, because I do like it. Heck, when the Bangled look came out, it was criticized as well, but look what happened over time. But again... it makes little sense to pit one BMW against the other. They all are great vehicles in their own right... IMHO.

As far as BMW not needing a 1-series, that is BS... the 3 has been super-sized from eating too many Big Macs with fries. It's also grown as a result of too much growth hormone. While the 1er isn't a bunch lighter, it is nonetheless hundreds of pounds lighter, and it is sized back nearer to where the 3er used to be before it's eating splurge. To say that the 1er is too heavy doesn't bode well for the 3er, which would logically then be obese. Neither are true, as the performance figures show. As far as BMW needing a much lighter car, you need to be patient because it is already in the works as well.

The 1er isn't meant to be a family car necessarily. You will see the demographics of those purchasing it will be mostly young males. Even my use isn't geared towards being a family vehicle. It is more of a personal car with a 2+2 approach. I have already taken the wife and kids for a ride and it was comfy for all of us. Nothing like the Jag of course, but then again, it's not meant to be a spacious family car... so to criticize it for not being something it isn't meant to be anyway is rather pointless.

The 3-Series represents the better value, IMO, if the interior space attributes are the primary consideration. No doubt about it. If space isn't the goal, then it gets back to performance... which then points to the 1-Series.

I can tell you already that I love this 1-Series because it IS smaller than the 3-Series. That's a good thing. It drives like a dream. It's incredibly comfortable up front. Kicks serious butt. Fun factor is huge.

TM

tagman

I've been much more impressed by Infiniti's latest work.

Completely agree. Infiniti is at or near the top of its class now when it comes to interiors. So wonderfully executed.

TM

tagman

Dewey,

Don't lose your perspective just because your BMW went to the shop and you anticipate buying a Lexus in the future.

TM

houdini1

The well known automotive journal (Business Week) also was not that taken with the I series. They said the styling was so bland that it would be easy to lose in a mall parking lot. They also said that the entire rear end styling was simply atrocious.

Then last, but not least, they had to gall to say that this performance machine had little or no steering feel! My, my!! Looks like they were not fooled by a $50,000. sub-compact!

tagman

Sounds like an April Fools Day post.

Business Week is an automotive journal? If you say so. They do write terrific articles on the business aspects of the automobile industry, but they are not known for their road tests. But, it really makes little difference.

Here's why... Here is the latest list of reviews of the 1-Series, as of 3/22/08. If you were to ever actually read all of these, you would discover that the BMW 1-Series is one of the most praised vehicles in world automotive history!

Sorry, but that's just the way it truly is... and man, I'm lapping it up, too. I'm so lucky to own one of the first ones. :shades:

UPDATED 3/22/08

Big Names
Grassroots Motorsports
Car & Driver
Automobile (135i coupe)
Automobile (convertible)
Road and Track First Drive
Road and Track 135i Full Road Test
Winding Road
Winding Road (video)
CAR (135i)
CAR (123d)
Evo I
Evo II (scroll down for scans)
Edmunds First Drive
Edmunds Full Test 135i
Fifth Gear
Motor Trend (135i coupe)
Motor Trend (128i convertible)
Motor Trend Blog: Baby Bimmer's Best
The Car Connection
Top Gear
Popular Mechanics
Ward's Auto World
Bimmer Magazine
Car Magazine reviews 135i coupe
Bloomberg Magazine
BMW Magazine

Comparison Tests
Auto Express (135i, TT, and GTI)
AutoCar (135i, Cayman, and 350Z)
Auto Motor Und Sport (135i, Cayman S, Merc SLK)
Motivemag 128i vs. VW R32

Individual Reviewers
Jeremy Clarkson
Jeremy Clarkson: "The 135 coupé is the best car BMW makes"
Paul Tan
Laurence Yap

Newspaper
Times UK (123d)
London Telegraph
National Post
Canwest News
Irish Times
LA Times

Other/Internet
MWerks
Modified Cars
Car Sales
Unspecified German review
Auto Motor Und Sport
Cars Guide
Canadian Driver
Parker’s
Motive Magazine
Autospies
MSN UK
EDBMW
Roadfly
Cars.com (video)
Wheels Mag (Australia)
Motor Authority
BimmerFile Review: BMW 135i
Motive Magazine
The Independent
Auto 123 reviews the 135i
NationalPost reviews cabrio
Winding Road reviews 125i convertible
TheAutoChannel
Speed Sport Life (135i)
Carfreaks reviews 120d
Canadiandriver.com (135i)

If you truly want to be "fair and balanced", then you will know that the overwhelming majority consensus on the 1-Series is obsolutely off the scale in the amount of praise the car has received. It is obviously bothering you. Are you jealous perhaps? :surprise:

No car is perfect, and you can point out the few imperfections all you want to... but this 1-Series is soooooo good... and soooooo much fun to drive... and soooooo praised, it's obviously not for you. For a guy like you... I recommend another Lexus, with a copy of Consumer Reports in the glove box.

TM

laurasdada

A black 1 series crossed my path this afternoon. Again, my quick thought, "That's so cute!

Another thought (and this is just a general rant, not targeted to anybody in particular Japanese/German fanboys!): Does it really matter what any(body, publication)'s thoughts are on the car that YOU'VE bought??? I know it doesn't matter to you, Tag. But for folks to constantly feel they have to denigrate a certain car, knowing that folks have purchased it because it meets the only important criterion (their own!), what's the point?

I bought a '99 Chrysler 300M in (surprise) '99. Did I care it was MT Car of the Year (like Vegas, Alliances, last gen Malibu! and other less than noteworty marques) or that it was on C & Ds ten best for a couple of years? Well, yes it was nice that it was recognized by others as a decent car, but as they were not paying off my (0%!) note, it made no difference to me. My car, I liked it. End of story.

Feel free to opine and if a publication/individual agrees with your opinion, fabulous! But to try to convince someone that they bought the wrong car, wasted THEIR $, destroying humanity as we know it, well (unless they're your spouse!), really, what's the point...

dewey

Tagman,

the 1 series is an amazing car. My 3 series is an amazing car. But both our cars have weaknesses as you have pointed out some 3 series flaws and I have pointed out some 1 series flaws. No car is perfect until a buyer finds that he has a perfect car and that is all that matters. And so far both of us do not have to relentlessly pursue perfection since we alreay own it.

I think my 1 series critique was somewhat misdirected since I had just recently browsed a Edmunds 1 series forum and based on most those posts a 3 series is a bloated big and heavy Chrysler Imperial while a BMW 1 series is a feather-like nimble fast machine. What a load of bunk! Maybe it's best I re-visit that forum and straighten some things out over there. :mad:

The sin of heavy weight hangs upon all car makers due to safety and techno-gizmos. But what I find most refreshing is the fact that the new and much larger Audi A4 Avant will be 200LBs lighter than its predecessor. Hopefully this emphasis on lightness will continue especially with fuel consumption being such a priority for all auto marques(luxury and non-luxury).

tagman

I agree.

Just because the 1 has emerged, the 3 hasn't suddenly become yesterday's leftovers. The 3 is one of the most awarded vehicles of all time. And rightly so, IMO.

The irrational exuberance regarding the 1 is out-of-whack as well. Reading some of the articles, reviews and posts, you would think that Jesus himself drives a 1er.

The fact that we have made selections for ourselves that satisfies our current needs is all that matters. We all deserve to enjoy our choice of cars, and not have them attacked in malicious manner as laurasdada pointed out so eloquently.

Respectfully,

TM

tagman

Well said, dada. (except for the "C"-word...LOL.)

TM

houdini1

I would agree that "cute" is a good description for the 1 series. I would also agree that all these contentious posts do no one any good and that they are counter productive to say the least.

That said, I must point out that all this negativity started with unsolicited remarks from Tagman about how he felt the dash of the LS was dated and boring. I listened to him say this two or three times and then decided to give him a little of his own medicine. He loves to dish it out but immediately cries foul when he has to take a little.

dewey

Canwest, National Post, Lawrence Yap, Canadian Driver...

Thanks for the Canadian perspective of the 1 Series. You know the Canadian points of view better than I do.

laurasdada

Well, I'm not sure that I have the memory capacity (my memory is dynamic, flushed every night when I power down!) to remember every "he said/she said" conversation...

And, as long as it is civil, general opinion, where is the harm? Did anyone convince anyone of a contrarian opinion that they are wrong? I think not...

Agree/disagree, explain your thoughts and reasoning. But there is no absolute no matter how many agree/disagree with one's opinions & preferences. Theoretically, we are all different with the freedom to perceive and express thought and opinions as we see fit. As long as it is not framed in a personal attack, of course...

Talk is cheap, vote with your wallet. As I did with my (less than stellar build quality, but reliable, handsome, somewhat noisy, fun, practical, handsome, relatively economical, handsome, handsome) Chrysler! There, Tag! Like the Knights who say Nee, I say Chrylser! Now, go away or I shall taunt you a second time!

BTW, given the pix that, I believe, LG posted earlier I kinda like the look of the prior MB CL over the new version. But, it's just a picture. And my opinion. Now, how is my opinon wrong?

tagman

I must point out that all this negativity started with unsolicited remarks from Tagman about how he felt the dash of the LS was dated and boring.

Just look at the posts. You will see that I was remarking about the pics that cirlew had taken. I mentioned that the color combo for the R8 wasn't the best, and I mentioned that the rear seat of the LS was really nice in contrast to the front which I thought to be typical and dated. Nothing wrong with that at all. That's what this forum is partially all about. And that was ALL I said before YOU jumped in and started the baloney.

So, don't be pointing a finger here, Houdini. You need to own this.

Now I personally don't care enough about it, so if you want to continue with this ranting that "it was all TagMan's fault"... go right ahead, cause I think it's all kinda childish, if you ask me, and I'm done with it and moving forward to posts about cars. I respectfully suggest you do the same... after you apologize...LOL! :P

TM

tagman

Talk is cheap, vote with your wallet.

Amen. And once again, I have done so.

However, ownership is not a requirement to have an opinion, so let's never confuse anyone on that very important distinction.

Otherwise, nice post, dada... again.

TM

laurasdada

By vote w/your wallet I simply meant that I turned my opinion into my fact. As did you. As did others...

Chrysler!

lexusguy

BTW, given the pix that, I believe, LG posted earlier I kinda like the look of the prior MB CL over the new version. But, it's just a picture. And my opinion. Now, how is my opinon wrong?

Your opinion is wrong. The picture I posted of the old CL was near the end of its life when it had been improved a bit. A few years earlier, they wanted $100K and up for this:




I wouldn't pay $30K for that. The new one though has an interior that they could sell at $200K.

houdini1

And that was ALL I said before YOU jumped in and started the baloney.

Not true.

The original post where you first said the LS dash was dated and boring was post #11847. Then you repeated the same thing in post #11858. Then again in post # 11860. That is three separate posts, just like I said, before I posted #11862, not to you, by the way, but to Lou. Then came your post #11863 directed to me and we were off and running. So YOU own this pal, not me.

Thankfully there is a written record for all to see.

louiswei

Well, you know what, if Tag and the others think the LS dash looks boring and outdated then so be it, after all those are their opinions. As long as people don't scream "YOU ARE WRONG" at me when I express my opinion then I am fine with it.

dewey

What has long of the tooth BMW 7 Series accomplished that the MB S Class, Audi A8 and the Lexus LS has not accomplished?

A March 08 sales increase. It's a brutal world for high end luxury sedans unless you're Bavarian.

houdini1

Sounds like a good philosophy.

tagman

Houdini (Pal... LOL),
I don't know what's going on with you, but I will attempt to reason with you one last time here on this.

My remarks about the LS600hL's dated center stack were spoken as a mild criticism in contrast to that nice rear seat. It was a totally appropriate remark and it was not directed at anyone personally... I know of no one that regularly posts on this forum that owns one.

Your remarks were directed at BMW intentionally out of the blue and were focused progressively towards the 1-Series, a car that I just purchased with much enthusiasm, after a long wait.

Your motivations and actions were very different than mine. I stand by my view of the LS600hL dated center stack arrangement and that cozy rear seat. I don't care what you think about my "cheap-looking" car, as I like it a lot and I know darned well that the posts show that you directed your remarks at me personally... at the very least it was crude and insensitive to someone that just purchased a new car. Those are special moments for all and any of us.

I'm good with where I was on this... and we all see where you were coming from.

TM

pat

How 'bout both of you just drop this and move on... it's tiresome to read.

esf

The new Range Rover is rumored to be making its debut in about two years, and it will probably retain its gorgeous looks, but with a new all-aluminum frame. That will take, oh, about a thousand pounds off the beast. It will help tremendously in performance and fuel economy--I can't wait! That will be the first time ever that I could justify buying one for myself!

I have no idea when the RR S is due for a redesign. Probably a couple years after, and also with the new aluminum body. The Land Rover brand will literally be the truck version of Jaguar. Sounds good to me.

'08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet