Luxury Lounge

laurasdada

"Honda today is not capable of making any vehicle that is competitive with a BMW independent of price..."

Surprise, I disagree! Honda is capable of making any vehicle... They just haven't yet produced one recently that will satisfy the (BMW) RWD crowd (well, as you wrote they did with the S2K and NSX. So, they were and, I believe, still are capable).

To many, they do produce a car that is competitive with the 3 series. It all boils down to the individual buyers priorities, e.g. ride/handling, price, size, perceived quality, style, value, pros/cons of driven wheels... as to determine how competitive it is. In your eyes, the TL is not so competitive. In my eyes, it was my choice.

houdini1

Good post. Honda/Acura has their niche and it is a good one. Why would they want to build a BMW clone?

I have a 2002 RL and it is one of the best cars I have ever owned and I have owned multiple BMWs, MBs, and Lexus. No Audis, but I wouldn't rule one out in the future.

jlbl

I have a map of Spain, and wondered where you are located on it....

Getxo, a town near to Bilbao in the province of Vizcaya/Bizkaia (Biscay, from which Key Biscayne was named). It is in the north shore of the Iberian Peninsula, not too far from France. You may wish to have a look at
link title
and play up and down with the scale slider. My house (a condo) is one of these around the small garden.

And to see pics of Arrigunaga Beach, which is the beach next to my home, have a look to
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(These are not pictures shot by me; most of them are taken from surfers blogs; oh, I am not a surfer )

And also of Ereaga Beach, five min. by walk from my place. Next to this beach is the Getxo/Algorta Marina.
link title

So many of the names in Spain are given where the Spanish explorers explored...

Here there is a pic of Durango (20 miles away from my place), which is the name of birthplace town of the explorer who settled Durango in America. In the Spanish tradition, cities settled and lands explored in the New World were not usually named as "New Whatever" but just with the original name repeated.
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(The legend to this picture may be written in Basque language or in Spanish lenguage. You should press "castellano" to read it in Spanish language.)

And 50 miles away from my town is Guetaria/Getaria, the birthplace of the explorer who firstly sailed around the world (Juan Sebastian Elcano).
link title

Tony, I wish you a good imaginary trip and the best success with you Spanish language study!

Regards,
Jose

jlbl

…was indeed an interesting self made man, by the way.

link title

Regards,
Jose

circlew

Land Cruiser will fall apart way before an LX. Consider that.

Regards,
OW

circlew

I hear you...let the tax be levied! God save the mayor and the lawyers!

Regards,
OW

circlew

I thought it one of the best luxo sedan interiors of the NYIAS even though some would say it is dated. The back seat area is to die for!

Regards,
OW

circlew

Accura and Honda had medium crowd attention at the NYIAS this year as I saw it. The other luxury brands and Hyundai drew the crowds. I could not help but feel that Honda needs to start thinking about the trends out there in the market. They seem to be loosing advantage they have in rock solid quality to the trend toward more excitment in the luxury class and entry luxury class, IMHO.

Regards,
OW

2001gs430

LG, I got to disagree, my ranking would be
1- Infiniti clean, everything appear well integrated and hi-tech/modern.
1- Lexus clean, everything appear well integrated and hi-tech/modern. The instrument clusters is the best among the four when in use. When sitting inside, it gives a cosy feeling that make the car appear smaller than it really is.You need to pick one with better colors contrast
3- BMW clean, but appear boring/dated. You picked one with good colors contrast
4- Audi ( no pic shown in the link, but I had a peek at an A4 back last year and did not feel anything for it. Maybe it was black and black interior?)

louiswei

The 335i beats it in performance as well as the ride/handling balance, and even, arguably, materials quality

I wouldn't argue that 335i beats it in performance and handling but material quality? That I had a good laugh... Anyone who's not blind and spent enough time in both these cars would know that the IS has a better interior in terms of of fit-'n-finish and material quality. Like I said, I am not going to feed you performance specs for the IS, if you indeed care about it then maybe you should do some research. I'll give you a hint though, 71 mph in slalom, do a research and see what category does that kind of number belong in.

Keep reading. I said it was pointless because of the Land Cruiser.

You should keep reading too because I said the LX is a uber luxury true off-road SUV. Take a look at the LC then you'll realized that thing can't compare with the LX in terms of material quality and luxurious features.

I don't hate Lexus

Yes you do, with a passion, just admit it...

louiswei

Dude, it's Acura not Accura!!!

:P

louiswei

I am having a Deja Vu here, I swear that we did this before...

My ranking (material independent):

1. TL - The overall design is just simply superb. Has the best center stack in the industry
2. IS - Has the best gauges, center stack is a bit dull but the center console is the best in class. Simple, clean and elegant
3. G35/37 - The tunnel-view nav screen is getting a bit old IMO, also don't like the analog clock. Love the washi aluminum trim though
4. '09 A4 - Much better than the previous version but I am not liking the center stack design, too bulky. I do like the way it tilt toward to the driver though
5. C-class - Simple, um... that's about it
6. 3-series - Gawd awful, especially with the screen. BMW needs to update its gauges, they look like they belong in the last century.

Material dependent:

1. IS
2. A4 (haven't seen the new one so it's based on current gen's material quality)
3. C-class
4. TL
5. 3-series
6. G35/37

circlew

OK!

Regards,
OW

lexusguy

Odd, I didn't have any trouble loading LLN's pictures on my end. Let me try some from WCF. In my opinion this is the new best in class interior, and car. As for the 3 series, to me the materials look rich and elegant in a way that the IS and G's do not. It seems to me like a $40-50K car, while the IS and G seem like $30-40K cars. I don't like the iDrive dash growth either, nor am I fan of those old fashioned gauges. Lexus definitely has them beat there. I much prefer the G with wood trim, but there aren't any official shots of it equipped that way. All of the official Lexus shots are unfortunately either in gray or black.

http://images.worldcarfans.com/2007/10/2/3071002.001/1075big.jpg
http://images.worldcarfans.com/2007/10/2/3071002.001/1074big.jpg
http://images.worldcarfans.com/2007/10/2/3071002.001/1020big.jpg
http://images.worldcarfans.com/2007/10/2/3071002.001/1064big.jpg
http://images.worldcarfans.com/2007/10/2/3071002.001/1060big.jpg

2001gs430

I can see these pics now, thanks.
IMO, the new A4 is just the opposite of the other 3 cars, very busy looking interior. To me, it looks like a cross between the IS/G and the 3 series. I am not sure this interior looks any richer than the others either.

louiswei

Funny, because in my eyes, the 3-series interior looks like it belongs to a $25-30k car while the IS and G in the $30-40k range. The 3-series interior material looks rich? IMO from "looking" at it, it is absolutely terrible. However, one would realize that it actually has good materials once touches it.

I would like to hear from 2001gs430 on what are his impressions about the IS and 3er interiors since he's the only one here that I know who actually spent good amount of times in both.

2001gs430

Lou, Here is my view on the IS and the 3 interiors from a material feel stand point:

- The perforated Leather in the IS absolutely beats the 3's. You have to buy a 7 to get leather this good.
- The top dash material look goes to the 3 since I like the smooth finish compare to the IS's rough finish.
- The optitron(?) gauges in the IS are my favorite even comparing to my GS and RX. I think only the LS's are as nice.
- The rotary control for the IS's moon roof is the best I have ever used.
- The push button starter on the 3 seems like a half hearted effort once you see the key fob dangling from it.
- The cup holders... well lets not go there

Don't get me wrong, the 3's interior is clean/functional and others here would agree with me that the 3 series is about luxury.

lexusguy

Funny, because in my eyes, the 3-series interior looks like it belongs to a $25-30k car while the IS and G in the $30-40k range.

Obviously interiors are going to come down to personal preference. I actually liked the G's interior more at launch than I do now. After seeing what Infiniti can really do with the EX35, the G seems a bit chintzy. The IS has never really done anything for me. I remember when I first saw the launch pictures thinking "is that it?" Of course the old IS was an economy car on the inside, so it is a huge improvement over that. If I were buying in the segment, the A4 is the one I'd have.

lexusguy

- The rotary control for the IS's moon roof is the best I have ever used.

That's actually something they cribbed from VW/Audi. Previous Lexus vehicles have always had rocker switches for the moon roof, while VW and Audi have been using rotary controls for as far back as I can remember.

louiswei

Maybe the cup holders would go to 3-series... :surprise:

However, I love the "bottle-holders" in the front door panels though, especially with the flip-open cover.

laurasdada

Hello: At the New England IAS last fall (a mere shell of the NYIAS) , Acura wasn't drawing big crowds (well, when I go, midweek, there aren't big crowds anyway!) as there really wasn't much new to view. The Maser Quattroporte and GranTurismo were busy, busy, busy...

While running errands at lunch tody, saw a shiny, black XKR coupe. Goodness, me oh my, I thought that I might propose marriage to it...

Also, I saw my first XF on the road, it crossed the road I was on while waiting upon a red light. It was black, or very dark blue, and somewhat surprisingly to me, didn't really catch my eye. Maybe it was the dark color?

anthonyp

Thanks for all the sites....I am going to visit them each slowly so I can visualise you and your home country...From the driving map it appears as though it (Getxo) is lovely and not too congested, as much of the USA is getting to be....Down in Miami, Key Biscayne really is way less of importance then Biscayne Bay, which is the wide body of water that seperates South Beach from downtown Miami ...So many of the names in Florida are as you say--just like Spain....What a wonderful country you live in....I am also very proud of mine, just not some of the people running the show.....My Spanish is going to take some time to even begin to make sense to you...It is apparently quite tricky Adios Hasta pronto

laurasdada

"My Spanish is going to take some time to even begin to make sense to you..."

When in doubt, use Spanglish!! Por ejemplo: Hasta manana = Hasty bananas! O, "Donde esta el bano" = "Donde esta la casa de Pepe!"

Lo siento, Jose... High school Spanish + High school sense of humor = above...

jlbl

Pepe is pet name for Jose!

Regards,
Jose

anthonyp

Keep up the good work---I appreciat it----In the school for my grandchildren, I begged my daughter to concentrate on Spanish, but no they make them take several languages--just part of how education is done apparently....Laura had a good dad Tony

anthonyp

I thought JOE was what Jose was ?

laurasdada

Then you must get many foreigners knocking on your door asking to use su bano!

lexusguy

Acura wasn't drawing big crowds (well, when I go, midweek, there aren't big crowds anyway!) as there really wasn't much new to view. The Maser Quattroporte and GranTurismo were busy, busy, busy...

My last auto show visit was the '06 NYIAS. The at the time brand new M and GS both had huge crowds. The RL was also there, and it was dead. You could hear the crickets. Once Lexus and Infiniti had launched their competitors it was clearly all over for the RL.

jlbl

In the USA (and Canada), I have visited NYC, Long Island, the northwest coast from Connecticut to Vermont (and Montreal), Florida and South California. Great Countries and great people. I wish to pay visits to other places, but opportunities are more and more limited as time goes by.

We, Europeans, feel the American landscape greatness overwhelming as compared to our more crowded and smaller Countries. Nonetheless, Spain is just a bit like North America in that, in a much smaller scale, there are open spaces, beaches, mountains, green lands, deserts, dry, rain, hot and cold whether.

If coming to Spain, do not hesitate to visit the inland and northern towns and villages

—apart from the well-known southern and eastern more touristic shores. In fact, I would not recommend the crowded touristic resorts of the eastern Spain but those of the northeastern Costa Brava as well as Barcelona, Valencia and the Balearic Islands. Excellent food, too.

OK, let's have the first lesson :

Joseph = José (Stressed as José)

Joe = Pepe / Jose (without accent, stressed as Jose)

And, to keep this post loosely related to the forum topic, I must say that Bilbao (including Getxo) was the 2001 Winner of the Europe Best Public Transportation Award.

Regards,
Jose

houdini1

Jose, you will make scholars of us all.

When in Florida I hope you got to visit St. Augustine. Founded by your Countrymen in 1565, it is the oldest city in the U.S. So I guess we go back a ways!!

dewey

Love Cape Breton. Love Banff and Jasper.

Also love visiting the USA. I go there quite frequently. I do have some kind of connection with the USA. I lived one year in Chicago and my father was a 1958 MBA graduate from the University of Texas in Austin.

So consider me a good neighbor.

circlew

You could walk in Infiniti and Acura exhibits this year at NY...MB, BMW Jaguar and Audi were real busy and it shows the draw of those brands...Buick was were we sat and ate lunch because you could breath and it was at the far corner...only very few people and most were viewing the Enclave. That was on the last Saturday of the week since I like to take my family to show them what real crowds look like.

Regards,
OW

circlew

Just a fleeting affair would do..this is a great looking piece!



Regards,
OW

houdini1

Texas? Well Howdy Podna!!

dewey

Hey Jose,

Spainards may run with the bulls but in North America we are currentiy running with another animal.

dewey

If the new generation Toyota Prius models have nickel carbide batteries and the new Lexus Prius modes have lithium ion batteries than that distinction alone will make me favor a far more fuel efficient Lexus. Who knows I may actually own a Lexus in the future. :surprise:



This new hybrid (in more than one sense) will feature lithium-ion batteries, all the luxury amenities one would expect from the brand and should be available in late 2010 or early 2011

link title

dewey

The top-of-the-line 2.1-liter oilburner is producing 204 hp and 368 lb.-ft. of torque, or around 20-percent more than its predecessor, while returning better mileage and reducing emissions by over 10-percent. When fitted in the new C-class (250CDI) it's able to make the run to 60 in 7.7 seconds while getting 46 mpg.

link title

What a gem of an MB diesel engine. This engine alone may sway me to buy a new MB C-Class.

dewey

Looks BEAUTIFUL!

But in all honesty almost any car looks beautiful with pictures that have gone through such extensive workshop photo efforts.

I saw a salt and dirt covered Jag XKR during a dreary winter day and it did not at all resemble the car on your posted picture.

dewey

But at least we can agree to disagree.

Honda's engineering prowess for performance cars is completly lacking today.

But that's not it!

Honda's engineering prowess for its much acclaimed fuel efficient cars is completely lacking also. It's new Honda Accord is more fuel inefficent than the older model. A far more practical and bigger Toyota Corolla is an equivalent if not better gas miser when compared to the lighter Honda Fit. Honda hybrids are second rate when compared to Toyota's. hybrids And now the Honda diesel 2.2L sold in Europe is nothing special when compared to the new diesel engines from VW.

So where the heck is the proof that Honda is such a wonderful engineering company today? Honda reminds me of Volvo which has a similar inflated reputation except in Volvo's case their laurels rests on safety.

2001gs430

I love the USA too. I lived in Santa Clara and Dallas for about a year during the tech bubble time. I am strongly tempted to buy a home in the sun belt while the prices are very affordable to Canadians. I would love to have a house in Florida, but I still have a lot of research to do before deciding on a specific city.

2001gs430

Yes, the Japanese usually copy some good ideas and make them even better than the original.

laurasdada

While I've oft defended the TL, I'm not sure that I can do the same for the RL. Because of the TL! Indeed, if the RL offered more interior space, increased performance through a V8 and styling that, while handsome, is entirely anonymous and forgettable, maybe a case could be made. But for a lot less $, the TL, to me, is more car...

jlbl

When in Florida I hope you got to visit St. Augustine.

Yes, I did. Nice city. After being to Orlando to a conference I rented a mid-size car (of so little interest that I have even forgot its brand name :mad: ) to spent some days driving to St. Augustine, Cape Canaveral (from cañaveral : a spot where canes grow) and other places.

Founded by your Countrymen in 1565, it is the oldest city in the U.S.

Coincidentally, the farm of my mother´s family at the Aragon Pyrenees Mountains has '1565' engraved in its stone framed main entrance door.

On the other hand, no Aragonese person went to the Americas as Spanish explorer or settler, because the Aragonese Parliament consistently refused, from the 16th to the 18th Centuries, to rise taxation to give money to the King for expeditions to America and other war enterprises, even within Europe. So, the American expeditions were only supported by the Castilian and Leonese Parliament and as such only Castilians and Leonese persons were allowed to cross the Ocean to get a chance to improve their living.

(In the USA I have visited Maine in addition to the other places I posted yesterday.)

Regards,
Jose

jlbl

dewey

To many, they do produce a car that is competitive with the 3 series. It all boils down to the individual buyers priorities, e.g. ride/handling, price, size, perceived quality, style, value, pros/cons of driven wheels... as to determine how competitive it is. In your eyes, the TL is not so competitive. In my eyes, it was my choice.

OK let me revise my last post. I dont completely disagree with you in terms of your above statement. In fact I do agree.

dewey

would love to have a house in Florida,

I spent a lot of time during my youth in my parents beach- front condominion that was located right at the border of Pompano Beach and Fort Lauderdale.

I can see why you like Florida but despite that I would never buy a second home. During my travels I like to experience novelty and not be at the very same
home away from home.

jlbl

What a gem of an MB diesel engine. This engine alone may sway me to buy a new MB C-Class.

We use to comment more on BMW and Audi diesel engines in this trend, yet M-B has a well deserved reputation on passenger diesel engines over here. Additionally, the M-B division for truck & bus diesel engines is top-seller, huge and long-lasting.

Regards,
Jose

hpowders

Hello TM!

Ah, yes. The good old days. When homes were homes and loans were loans.

TM, you certainly have recalled some memorable posters from the past.

I hope you are enjoying your smashing new 135i Coupe! I'm sure you are having a lot of fun.

As for me, I have yet to trek to my regular BMW dealership for my end of lease test-driving ritual, as I recently found out they have changed ownership. Fittingly, I had to find out about the change over the internet from a poster at Bimmerfest! As a loyal customer since 1993, I received no letter, postcard or e-mail from them about the ownership change. I would have expected my phone to be ringing "off the hook" by now to "come on in" since my lease is almost up, with aggressive new management in place. :surprise:

Based on my wealth of 15 year experiences, BMW has to be considered the absolutely most arrogant premium dealership on the planet. On the Edmunds BMW "3 Series Run Flat Tires" thread, cdnpinhead aptly puts it: "BMWNA couldn't care less, I imagine. There's.... 300 sheep for every one driver who opts out."

The cars do perform breathtakingly well, but a total "premium experience", BMW sadly does not offer.

laurasdada

Most of my comments relate to "Beauty/value/performance/economy/luxury/ride... is in the wallet of the beholder." Many folks speak/post in absolutes, as if their opinions were facts. Which they may be to the poster, not necessarily to the readers of said posts. Of course, this applies not just to cars/Edmunds...

My familia owned a condo in Boca Raton for about 25 years. Nice neighborhood. If I was looking for the snowbird home, I think I'd look in the Boca/Pompano/Delray area. But, that's the only area I even know a little, but it's nice...

laurasdada

Mmmmm, Jaguar (Homer-like drooling...).

That was it, different wheels though, I think...

Great shoulders on the XK, like a car with a good set of well integrated shoulders.