Luxury Lounge

2001gs430

I sat in a GS 450h and liked it too. Around here, I actually see more GS than M or RL, I think Lexus is putting a lot of features in the GS that are also in the LS and that is how they justify its fairly expensive pricing.

circlew

Since a loaded 135i is $42K and the M3 is $64K, what do you think the differences are between them? V-8 and some goodies and a little more room?

The interior feel is way upscale in the M3 I sat in yesterday.

Regards,
OW

esf

The two are so different that it's hard to compare, but they are also quite similar. Here are their major differences that sets the M3 apart, IMO:

-M3's more upscale look
-Incredible V8
-Luxurious interior
-Rear seat space
-M suspension
-Adjustability
-Exclusivity (although you won't see a ridiculous amount of 1's either)

That's about it. Whether it's worth the $22,000 extra is your decision. I have personally gotten very excited about the prospect of a 1 Series over the past day because of Tag's review. A 135i convertible might be the perfect fit, as long as I have an Audi S6 on the side of course.

'08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet

tx_buzzard

Nice assessment Tag... good to hear from you again! Your comments, reviews, and opinions as well as just general statements have always been very well thought out. And appreciated by the majority, I am sure. Some people can be so narrow minded to think if you do not agree with their opinions, then you are simply wrong. I have never understood this thinking, as another opinion either further confirms your position or makes you reconsider. Either way it should be a win. If someone is going to attach you personally because your thinking does not agree with theirs... well I just avoid those people and discount their remarks, as ignorance and arrogance is a hard combination to reason with my friend.

circlew

When I started posting about the differences between RWD and AWD, the feedback was stirring to say the least! To each his own and no one is completely right or wrong when viewed within a balanced framework. I have learned a great deal from everyone on Edmund's forums.

Regards,
OW

houdini1

Ditto

Now about cars. There are some real bargains available on new and nearly new luxury cars now and probably more on the way. Car companies are hurting. All of them. Good time to find a bargain!!

louiswei

Edmunds is the only publication that has compared the IS-F and RS4 directly

Does that matter to determine which one is faster? :confuse:

The latest R&T has the IS F to be faster than the RS4 and I am pretty sure having 2 more cars compete in the comparo would not necessarily to make the RS4 any slower...

Oh and by the way, Edmunds is NOT the only source that has compared the IS F and RS4 directly:

Shoot Out - IS F vs RS4

Shootout - Beyond the Screen

Take a guess on who the winner is...

Lexus fans always seem to think that when Lexuses aren't picked as the best, the article simply must be biased...

All I was trying to say is that based on only objective performance results the IS F is simply better than the RS4. Simple as that. I have no problem with an Audi fan to add 100k subjective points to the RS4 to make it a winner but one just can't argue that it is a less performer.

louiswei

Your neighbor's daughter, with her $300/mo leased 328i, would probably have more features in hers.

If I want a PS3 on wheels I'll get my neighbor's daughter's 328i. But if I want a track ready car that can also be my daily driver I'll take a bone stock M3 without a blink.

1. I don't think so.

Go to your local BMW dealership and see what they quote you on a loaded 335i. Keep in mind that the price they quote you on is without any negotiation and there are still plenty of rooms for it to go down.

2. If that is true, how does it not apply to a similarly-priced S4?

Is the S4 a limited supply model or a mainstream one like the 335i?

louiswei

A RWD ES will alienate all the people that have bought it over, and over, and over in the past.

I have to agree with you here. I also do not see what's wrong with ES being the glorified Camry, if there are people who want it then give it to them.

I guess Lexus is just tired of being made fun of it for having a "Camry" in its lineup...

I seriously don't know what exactly Lexus' plan is for the RWD ES but it should be interesting to find out.

circlew

With the ES looks, they should put a sports package in it...I would love a car that looks like that with some heavy mods to make it run more enthusiast-grade.

Regards,
OW

2001gs430

Wow, the Audi took a real beating in this shoot out. Thanks for the links Lou.

lexusguy

I have to agree with you here. I also do not see what's wrong with ES being the glorified Camry, if there are people who want it then give it to them.

I agree. Why not let the ES just be a better made Buick, if that's what customers want?

lexusguy

With the ES looks, they should put a sports package in it...I would love a car that looks like that with some heavy mods to make it run more enthusiast-grade.

Lexus will just point you to the IS. They offered an adaptive suspension option in the last ES to make it marginally sportier, and nobody ordered it so it was dropped for this one. The reason they have two models at the entry-lux level is so that one of them can be a sports sedan and the other can be a boat. Making a sporty ES is pointless.

louiswei

I really think the 2-model-entry-level-lux strategy Lexus has currently is brilliant, all they really need to do is to build a better GS then their sedan lineup is set.

Okay, maybe the IS can use a more roomier back seat next time...

esf

But if I want a track ready car that can also be my daily driver I'll take a bone stock M3 without a blink.

You don't. You have a Lexus IS350. :P

Go to your local BMW dealership and see what they quote you on a loaded 335i. Keep in mind that the price they quote you on is without any negotiation and there are still plenty of rooms for it to go down.

The 335i is in high demand. You would be hard-pressed to pick up a new one, loaded, for less than $50K. You could try, and if it works, lucky you, but I wouldn't count on it.

Is the S4 a limited supply model or a mainstream one like the 335i?

You would be surprised at how many S4's are usually at my dealer. S5 is a different story, but the S4 is not an incredibly exclusive car. You won't see as many as you see 3 Series, but you could definitely go to your Audi dealer today and pick up a B7 for $45K with little negotiation. You did say late-model 335i, right?

Now, before you come out with a rebuttal, I'd like to say this argument is officially over, because it isn't going to go anywhere anyway.

'08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet

houdini1

I also agree on the ES. They sell a ton of those things and should just leave well enough alone. It is what it is.

bmlexus

You would be surprised at how many S4's are usually at my dealer. S5 is a different story

LOL S5 is a different story, why is the S5 taking so long if someone orders 1 I have heard anywhere from 4 to 10 months :confuse:

lexusguy

LOL S5 is a different story, why is the S5 taking so long if someone orders 1 I have heard anywhere from 4 to 10 months

The S5 in this country is a very niche market product. The G37 and 3 coupes probably outsell it what, 10-1? 20-1? Audi just isn't going to have loads of them around.

louiswei

You don't. You have a Lexus IS350.

If I can afford it which one would you think I'll pick, M3 or IS350? Wait, never mind, I'll pick the IS F...

The 335i is in high demand. You would be hard-pressed to pick up a new one, loaded, for less than $50K.

Yeah right...

I went for a test drive in a BMW dealership in metro Atlanta, the sales quoted me a fairly loaded 335i sports for $1k off MSRP. Keep in mind that this is without any negotiation and back when the 335i was red hot. I am pretty sure I'll be able to get $2k off easily with little negotiation by now.

but you could definitely go to your Audi dealer today and pick up a B7 for $45K with little negotiation

Yeah, but I was talking about the next gen S4.

louiswei

Forbes top-ten most expensive luxury cars to repair (over five years)

1. Audi A8: $1,640
1. Mercedes-Benz G Class: $1,640
3. Jaguar XK: $1,629
4. Land Rover Range Rover $1,600
5. Mercedes-Benz CL Class: $1,540
6. BMW 7 Series $1,529
7. Audi Q7: $1,400
8. Land Rover LR2/LR3 $1,360
9. BMW M6: $1,300
9. Porsche Cayman: $1,300

Source; Autoblog

Really, there is no surprise entry here, maybe except the Cayman.

tx_buzzard

The 335i and 135i are selling real well here in Houston, although the biggest seller is the 5 Series. I bet Escalades sell really well there in Atlanta... am I right? :shades:

jlbl

Ha Ha, following the link to Autoblog I've found 3 nice tracks to follow further:

link title

link title

link title
(Kovalainen skipped without injuries. :surprise: )

Regards,
Jose

louiswei

Actually the 3-series are all over the place in Atlanta, most of them are the lower trims like the 328i and 325i. I wasn't saying that the 335i isn't selling well, I was just trying to make a point across that the 335i is not a limited model thus there are plenty of rooms to negotiate.

tx_buzzard

Point well taken. However did you see where there is going to be a price increase June 1st? $400 on the 335i.

louiswei

Price increases are all over the auto industry, Lexus has just announced its, the IS250/350 will see an increase of $300 begins June 1st.

Weak dollar? I think so...

bmlexus

Kovalainen skipped without injuries

Its already been 1 week. but he is ok

Just 1 thing he doesn't remember anything about the accident :surprise:

bmlexus

link title

It does have a kind of AUDI R8 feeling

louiswei

That's a very well executed photoshop job.

"it's a rendering. here's the original photo they lifted the background from:

link title "

bmlexus

thanks this site has lots of pics

jlbl

Just 1 thing he doesn't remember anything about the accident

Brain concussion, I suppose. I suffered it once while skiing ten years ago. I collided with a snow boarder. I wake up an hour after and I still do not remember what happened in the meanwhile plus half an hour before the collision. Images and remembrances not related with the accident kept popping out in my mind for one or two days. Amazing. I had read about that, but it is amazing when you feel it by yourself.

Kovalainen's crash was impressive. Did you see it? A tire blow on a long straight portion of the track, and there he went recto over the gravel and facing the side protection. The car ended covered in pieces of rubber. Though he did not remember anything, he was conscious when retired on the stretcher.

Regards,
Jose

bmlexus

I collided with a snow boarder. I wake up an hour after and I still do not remember what happened in the meanwhile plus half an hour before the collision. Images and remembrances not related with the accident kept popping out in my mind for one or two days. Amazing. I had read about that, but it is amazing when you feel it by yourself

Well its good to know you were ok.

These type of accidents can change your life.
Kovalainen's crash was impressive. Did you see it? A tire blow on a long straight portion of the track, and there he went recto over the gravel and facing the side protection.

Yes I did see it. I watch every single race. I am a F1 fan.

laurasdada

tx_buzzard

Certianly... any info on the car?

esf

Yeah, but I was talking about the next gen S4.

I know, but you were also referring to an M3 or 335i that is far into its life cycle (somewhere around '10 or '11), so it's only fair to compare to an equally dated S4.

I still stand by my statement that the S4 hits the sweet spot. There is room between the 335i and M3. Audi has found it.

'08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet

tagman

Certianly... any info on the car?

Thanks to Laurasdada for bringing this to our attention. I'll assist and provide you with the info on your next car, tx_buzzard... LOL...

BTW, I hope your finances are in good order... as you will soon see...

1957, Mercedes Benz 300SL roadster
Exterior color Fire Red
Interior color black
Mileage 41,300
Price $638,800.00 :surprise:

W198 chassis 300SL roadster, DB354 Fire Red with black leather, 240hp 3.0l in-line 6 cylinder engine, 4 speed manual transmission, factory Rudge wheels, manuals, luggage, black soft top, well preserved 1990s restoration, matching numbers, same owner since last 40 years, ready for drive or show.



Here's the website:

link title

Let us know when you acquire this!!

TM

lexusguy

Ugh, not in that color. A classic Benz has to be silver.

tagman

Ugh, not in that color. A classic Benz has to be silver.

Shhhhh.

Tx buzzard is about to buy this car.

TM

jlbl

Then Tx buzzard has to ride all of us piled on the beauty.

Regards,
Jose

houdini1

I wonder what the original MSRP on this car was? Anyone know?

Is there a good web site to look up this info?

circlew

I think the original price was in the $12,000 range for this model.

Regards,
OW

louiswei

There is room between the 335i and M3. Audi has found it.

They kind of have to because a top of the line A4 can't compete with a sports 335i in terms of performance.

laurasdada

Like a man, I try not to judge a car by its color...

While the Mercedes' owned by my parents were indeed silver, this particular car in this particular color offends me not. I actually find it rather stunning and should anyone here be feeling especially charitable...

Yes, copleymotorcars.com is worth an occasional visit just to see what's on hand. The owner has a speial place in his heart for Land Rover and MB.

Driving home last night, a Pearl Gray XKR 'Vert was being test driven approaching me. Oh, my...

laurasdada

Thanks for the assist, Tag.

Maybe it's a typo, should be $63,800? If so, it would be in my garage tonight!

EDIT: It was a typo. The price is now $640,000. Darn inflation!

tagman

Just announced earlier today...

2008 International Engine of the Year awards announced...

And the grand winner is not surprisingly an engine from BMW, just like it has been for the last three years going back to 2005. The Bavarian automaker's 5.0L V10 won the award that year and in 2006, and BMW's luscious 3.0L twin-turbo inline six-cylinder engine won it in 2007 and has repeated its performance by winning the International Engine of the Year Award again for 2008. We get it, BMW makes really good engines.



TM

circlew

I hope the Lexus folks aren't too offended by this great news! The I6 is a real sweet engine which happens to be the best one I've ever had the experience with. Smooth, powerful and economical...but, alas, no dip-stick!!!!!!

Regards,
OW

2001gs430

Nissan TT V6 in the GT-R is probably going to take this title next year. Wait, no dip-stick, how do you know when to add more oil once this engine is out of warranty. Old engines can burn oil...

circlew

Electronic sensor tells you when oil is low...also tells you when to change the oil. Data is kept in the key fob sensor for service data/dates/miles...they stick the fob in a docking station and get the readings stored in the key fob chip.

Regards,
OW

2001gs430

What if the sensor malfunctioned and/or you don't have access to the key fob docking station/computer. I guess you can stop by the dealer every other week for an oil check

houdini1

Wait, no dip-stick

I think BMW decided that one dip stick per car was enough!! Sorry, I couldn't resist!!

lexusguy

We get it, BMW makes really good engines.

Congrats to BMW. The 35i engine is indeed a brilliant piece of engineering, more so than the 5.0L V10 IMO, which isn't great on torque compared to the AMG 6.2L V8, and also has oil guzzling problems if I remember correctly. I am very interested to see how Audi's answer to the BMW engine turns out.