Luxury Lounge

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  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    It'll still sell. Like one of the posters over there said, it's hard to get a Honda/Acura person out of those cars. Honda fanboyism is far stronger than The Force. There's gotta be some special kool-aid or something that's secretly given to the owners. No matter how lack luster or insignificant a car they produce ...cough...RL...cough, it'll still sell in enough numbers for them to continue producing it.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    This is one of those stories that boggles the mind. Someone mentioned the Legend...I remember in my glorious Big 3 Support days while I was enjoying my Mark VII LSC, the Legend was one of the best cars on the road.

    Remind me why some companies let good brands die. I need to be educated!

    Regards,
    OW
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    My 1990 Acura Legend (high school car) is still one of the best, if not the best, car I've ever driven. Even I am driving a Lexus now I still consider myself a hardcore Honda supporter, it really depressed me to see how far Acura/Honda had slipped with the new Accord, TSX and possibly the TL.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    I can tell you that your are not alone. It was noteworthy to see the same level of excitement at the Acura exhibit this year in NY.

    Regards,
    OW
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Member Posts: 5,233
    Still enjoy my '05 TL and find it still to be a handsome design. Just too many of 'em now!

    If the '09 TL doesn't light my fire, on to bigger and better. I'm shallow, an exterior design has to appeal to me in at least some manner before I consider spending my wife's hard earned $ on it. Interior, too is important. Biggest stumbling block for the 3 series for me is the interior (better sans IDrive screen bubbling up from the dash). Nice materials, lackluster (but, I'm sure ergonomically correct) presentation. Of course, doesn't affect the engine and chasis... And runflats, don't like the idea of 'em...yet?

    '21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)

  • anthonypanthonyp Member Posts: 1,860
    Hi Jlbl

    Sorry I didn`t know it was over there...I found it and thanks for the reply...They said that some of the problem was in the northern part of Spain, so it was near you---but luckily not you...

    All the photos you posted were exciting, and it was an era to stand back and be in awe of.....I particularly liked the front seats in the convertable--a roadster--..I think I remember when Mercedes had those rather broad seatbacks that touched across the front seat....They were comfortable, but not anything like the suppor we have today....Things were slower back then---poor roads--so you didn`t slide across the seats as you wern`t going too fast....Take Care Tony
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Member Posts: 5,233
    Not sure if the title is an oxymoron...

    But as folks sung the praises of The Legend, to me, they represented typical Honda style: simple, handsome but somewhat generic (which I think describes the RL and TSX). The prior-gen RL was the box it came in. Acura-wise, the only two cars that, imo, had any real outstanding style were the original Legend Coupe (thank you BMW 635) and the '04 TL. Maybe the NSX, but to me the styling wasn't spectacular. Low and lean, but the rear of the car seemed to be a bit too long, out of proportion...

    I kinda had hoped that the '04 TL would set a styling trend w/Acura, but subsequent models (TSX, RL) did not seem to carry that sense of style any further. Hope the '09 TL is a beauty...

    '21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)

  • anthonypanthonyp Member Posts: 1,860
    You sure know your cars :) I think the Art Deco age is where they come from....When I got to Miami--about four years ago, I really got inteested in the Art Deco era....Alot of that came from France, and of course any thing from France is three times expensive than anything else...Anyway as you showed, the lines on those cars are beautiful...Tony
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    Hope the '09 TL is a beauty...

    Didn't you see the artist's rendering and spy shots?

    Don't get your hope up too high...
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Member Posts: 5,233
    Hey, I've also seen newspapers that proclaimed, "Dewey Wins!" Don't believe everything you read or see in pix...

    When unveiled, it will be what it will be. Que sera, sera. Only then will I pass judgment. Then probably sleep on it and change my mind. And again... :blush:

    '21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)

  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    Spycam: 2009 Acura TL

    Not looking good, dada, not looking good...

    :sick:
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Just when you think you feel the rear end coming out, stay on the throttle and let the ATTESA E-TS awd system do its thing. It'll immediately transfer as much as 50 percent of the engine torque to the front wheels (the torque split for normal driving is 2/98), stabilizing the car without sacrificing speed. ...

    The EVO uses basically the same method. That's another car thats faster than it has any right to be, thanks to the trick AWD system. These cars are about getting around a corner as fast as absolutely possible, not going tail-crazy or necessarily having the most fun. That means letting the computers and AWD system take over.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    My 1990 Acura Legend (high school car) is still one of the best, if not the best, car I've ever driven.

    I remember driving a Legend coupe and being fairly impressed. It was a good looking car, no Lexus SC but definitely not bad, it had nicely weighted steering and was enjoyable to drive for a big FWD coupe. They've never recovered from turning that into the Acura Buick in '96.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    I think the Art Deco age is where they come from...

    Yeah, I love that style. Automakers were just starting to drop the boxy shapes of the '20s and early '30s and embrace aerodynamics, or at least what they thought were aerodynamic shapes. They were wrong of course, but there's just so much grace and elegance in those swoops and curves.

    image
  • jlbljlbl Member Posts: 1,333
    Which car is that one?

    It seems to me as if Citroens DS19/21 had borrowed thereafter her main body silhouette—not the grill however. Oh! My crazy imagination… :surprise:

    Regards,
    Jose
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    I just put the 3rd set of RFT's on this 330xi I lease. The first set were the dreaded BS EL42 wirh bad rubber compound produced in 2006. BMW replaced them with Continental RFT's at 12K miles pro bono and these were flawless. I changed them again with 24K because I would have needed to anyway at lease turn-in so I want good rubber for the last 7 months of the lease. RFT's do not bother me.

    The drive is addicting. What next????

    Regards,
    OW
  • jlbljlbl Member Posts: 1,333
    My experience is limited to about 3500 miles on Bridgestone Potenza RE50A II RFT tires mounted on 335d with sport suspension.

    As I posted in other thread here in Edmunds: '… they are great, both on dry and wet pavement. They are summer tires, yet I drove them a couple of times on mountain-road salted asphalt in freezing weather with still good grip (not that I had asked them too much under such a condition).'

    Regards,
    Jose
  • 2001gs4302001gs430 Member Posts: 767
    Some thing about Acura that never quite fit into my garage: back in 2000, I was looking at the hot new 2001 TL, but I decided to go with a fully loaded accord. Fast forward to 2007, I looked at BMW 3, Infinity G, IS, TL, I pulled the trigger on both the BMW and IS, in spite of the fact that the TL represent very good value in this group of vehicles.
  • 2001gs4302001gs430 Member Posts: 767
    I've just noticed that my RX350 got only about 17 mpg over the winter months no matter what I put in the tank or how I drove the car. In the past few weeks, I easily average about 21 + mpg. These are the life time mpg read out from the car's computer, so with more distance to be driven in warm weather, I believe the mpg will be probably in the mid 20's.
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Member Posts: 5,233
    Choice is good, different strokes for different folks!

    Had I chosen the G over the TL in '05, I'm sure I would have been just as happy as that meant I weighted my criteria differently. Still diggin' my TL!

    But not diggin' the invoice for the O2 sensor that the Evil Wife's RX needs replaced... :sick: Still, cheaper than buying a new car. Or a couple of gallons of gas! :surprise:

    '21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)

  • laurasdadalaurasdada Member Posts: 5,233
    Yeah, the spy shots are not that encouraging...

    Gee, a bit Maxima, CTS, GS w/MB S class wheel arches? Hopefully, it's just great camo and what's truly underneath will be lovely...

    I've never bought the same car 2x anyway, so probably won't matter to me. I'm fairly sure my next ride will be European. Maybe a Euro delivery if the EW sticks to her guns and insists upon going to Paris next year?

    '21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)

  • bristol2bristol2 Member Posts: 736
    Gee, a bit Maxima, CTS, GS w/MB S class wheel arches? Hopefully, it's just great camo and what's truly underneath will be lovely...

    It looks to me like a new Accord with the new 'Acura nose' on the front. Not my cup of tea...

    Maybe a Euro delivery if the EW sticks to her guns and insists upon going to Paris next year?

    Now that sounds fun! Make sure you don't end up in a Peugot by mistake! :surprise:
  • bmlexusbmlexus Member Posts: 755
    Any edmunds forum here where I can talk about LUXURY SUVS only?
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Member Posts: 5,233
    There's actually a Peugeot living in the front yard of the house around the corner from me. One of their last models in the US, was it the 504MI or something as such. Kind of a handsome little devil, Vermont license plates.

    '21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)

  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Which car is that one?

    That's a 1933 Pierce-Arrow Silver Arrow, another one of my favorites. PAs were elite status symbols of their day, comparable to today's S-Class or Flying Spur. Like the majority of US automakers, they didn't survive the great depression.
  • esfesf Member Posts: 1,020
    I haven't driven the X6, so don't ask me. LOL. I have no idea how it compares to my car.

    But why is the ride that BAD?

    It's not terrible, just rough over bumps and potholes. We have a ton of potholes in our area after winter.

    But it will look odd. x5 is made to look good with run flats.

    :confuse: ...They're all tires. It will look the same either way.

    Ok you cleared that no matter how bad the ride quality is should be better than camry at least .

    If compare the x5 with run flats to the land cruiser the ride will be definitely for the X5 correct?


    I have no idea what you're trying to say here.

    ;)

    '08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet
  • esfesf Member Posts: 1,020
    I know, that new 2.0T! It sounds awesome! It makes the 3.2 even more obsolete!!!

    Poor Hondacura... That new TL will be an exaggerated Saturn Aura.

    '08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet
  • esfesf Member Posts: 1,020
    My advice:

    Fire your designers.

    Fire your marketers.

    Maybe even fire your engineers.

    Start over with Acura. Do what Toyota has done with Lexus--make sure everyone who doesn't know much about cars wants one. While you're at it, change the name of the company. "Acura" doesn't scream "luxury" to me.

    Who agrees with this assessment?

    '08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet
  • clemboclembo Member Posts: 253
    Although Acura was "first in" as far as the Japanese companies who went upmarket, they only took an incremental step instead of going the full way like Lexus did. It will be very difficult to change that image now that 20 years have passed.

    It is too bad as I am on my second MDX, a 2008 and it is a terrific vehicle, who knows how they will be doing in a few years when I'm ready to replace it.
  • jimbresjimbres Member Posts: 2,025
    You could always start one.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    Do what Toyota has done with Lexus--make sure everyone who doesn't know much about cars wants one.

    Making cars that people like and that sell in the U.S. is not as easy as you seem to think. If it was some of the insignificant and minor bit players like Audi would take your advice. :shades:

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • bristol2bristol2 Member Posts: 736
    How about just 'define your vision'?

    Let's face it, the current TL is hugely successful.
    The MDX is hugely successful.
    The Integra was hugely successful.

    The RL is a flop.
    The RDX just misses in pretty much all categories (luxury, 'oomph' and mileage - at least it should hit one of those!!)

    The TSX could make some sense if they looked at what made the Integra successful (aspired to be sporty, looked good, affordable, ran like a top).

    I think they could be fine with every model acting as an entry-lux vehicle, everyone likes to bash the TL because it is 'just a nicer Accord', but that clearly has a strong (and large) customer base.
    Every iteration of the 'S' models has to have SH-AWD so they can avoid the torque steer issues.
    Do something quickly about whoever it is in the design team that thinks the squinty nose is giving Acura a strong brand image.
    Don't worry about going head-to-head with the other lux manufacturers.

    Maybe it's a new category 'aspirational luxury' or something (that's why I'm not in marketing) but I agree that if they only want to drag themselves up the luxury food-chain, they will be making a mistake.

    I guarantee you that a large proportion of average drivers who could give a rat's a$% about rwd would happily cross-shop Acura against other lux makers and go for the reliability, 'good-enough' ride and lower cost of an Acura. The only models they wouldn't compete with would be the 7-series/ S-class/ XJ/ LS/ Q45 vehicles. And with the actual sales those models get, why bother?

    What is worrying is when you look at their 'future vehicles' site, they all look terrible..... :surprise:
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    .. Don't worry about going head-to-head with the other lux manufacturers. ...

    ... I guarantee you that a large proportion of average drivers who could give a rat's a$% about rwd would happily cross-shop Acura against other lux makers and go for the reliability, 'good-enough' ride and lower cost of an Acura. ...

    I think they have both those bases covered.
  • bmlexusbmlexus Member Posts: 755
    haven't driven the X6, so don't ask me. LOL. I have no idea how it compares to my car.

    LOL anyway do let us know here when you switch the tires.

    thanks.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Maybe it's a new category 'aspirational luxury' or something (that's why I'm not in marketing) but I agree that if they only want to drag themselves up the luxury food-chain, they will be making a mistake.

    I agree. For years and years at Acura it was all about cars that came loaded and cheap, cheap enough that customers could look past the boring designs, lousy materials, and pedestrian platforms. Acura pricing is now reaching parity with Lexus and Infiniti, and yet the designs are still boring (or ugly), the materials are still lousy, and the platforms are still pedestrian. The plan seems to be to move towards dedicated RWD platforms, but thats at least 6 or 7 years away, and the competition isn't standing still. Acura wants to move out of Saab and Volvoville into the big leagues, and seems to think the brand cachet to do that will just magically appear for them. I don't think so.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    I just saw the current Motorweek show and they showcased the new BMW M3. I have never known MW to not like a car and they thought the new M was fantastic. Then toward the end they said by the way, we would have liked more feedback from the steering. Electric steering? They did not say.

    How can you love a car and not like the steering feel? For me that is one of the most, if not the most important considerations. It is your connection to the car and to the road.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    I don't think the RL is all that bad and apparently neither does Motor Trend. I just found a comparison from 2005 where they compared the RL, M35, A6, Jag S Type, BMW 530i, and Cad STS. They finished in this order:

    1. M35
    2. RL
    3. 530i
    4. A6
    5. STS
    6. S Type

    Now I know that this does not mean much but it does mean that at that time MT rated it above both the A6 and the 530i.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • esfesf Member Posts: 1,020
    It isn't?

    To me, it seems like all you really have to do is get yourself out there. Throw money around, advertise everywhere, make sure your vehicles are suited perfectly to the American market. Audi caters to Europe and Asia, and that's where it gets the bulk of its sales.

    '08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet
  • esfesf Member Posts: 1,020
    I think they could be fine with every model acting as an entry-lux vehicle, everyone likes to bash the TL because it is 'just a nicer Accord', but that clearly has a strong (and large) customer base.

    I'm not a TL basher. I really love the looks of the '08 updated model; it may seem a little overdone that it has huge exhausts and sporty trim on the base model, but on the Type-S it's very fitting. That car is a home run for them, RWD be damned.

    The MDX has also been a big success. The new one is a major step forward but all the good press it's gotten has been overshadowed by the mediocre reviews that the TSX and RL are garnering.

    My wife had an Integra sedan. She loved it.

    I had a '93 Vigor. I loved it.

    Then I got a '96 TL. Hated it.

    Maybe it's a new category 'aspirational luxury' or something (that's why I'm not in marketing) but I agree that if they only want to drag themselves up the luxury food-chain, they will be making a mistake.

    Absolutely, they have to prove themselves first. The NSX was technically a Honda so that doesn't count. They need a flagship, obviously, which is a gaping hole in their lineup. They need a V8--or, more importantly, they need innovative engine choices (think BMW). They need new interior designers. Heck, like I said, they need a whole lot of new stuff.

    I guarantee you that a large proportion of average drivers who could give a rat's a$% about rwd would happily cross-shop Acura against other lux makers and go for the reliability, 'good-enough' ride and lower cost of an Acura.

    But that's not the point. The thing it comes down to is that Acuras are boring (for the most part). Luxury cars should make people excited and make people want to own them. Lexus has that. Audi has that. BMW has that. Mercedes-Benz has that. High-end Jags have that. Cadillac and Infiniti even have it now. No Acura.

    '08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet
  • esfesf Member Posts: 1,020
    How can you love a car and not like the steering feel? For me that is one of the most, if not the most important considerations. It is your connection to the car and to the road.

    Don't you own a Lexus???

    By the way, it's a thing of relativity. Obviously the M3 has better steering feel than 99.9% of the cars on the road. They just want even more. Greedy bastards.

    '08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet
  • esfesf Member Posts: 1,020
    Sure, but now it's not even being included in most comparos. That says something.

    '08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Now I know that this does not mean much but it does mean that at that time MT rated it above both the A6 and the 530i.

    The RL also earned a 10-best from C&D. That, or MotorTrend's comparison hasn't changed my opinion on the car. Only the STS and the GS460 are less appealing to me than the RL. I wont get into all of the RL's failures again, but magazine praise clearly has done nothing for sales.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Then toward the end they said by the way, we would have liked more feedback from the steering. Electric steering? They did not say.

    All of the Motorsport cars use hydraulic setups. The M3 has apparently gotten much softer and easier to drive vs. its predecessor though, maybe thats what they were complaining about. BMW has never matched Porsche in terms of steering feel though.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    But in precision, BMW is on top of the world. Witness the apple apex test. Sure it was a professional driver, but the other sport sedans were equally manned and missed the target...by a lot after many passes! M3 is the scalpel. MW is just saying it's not perfect. Porsche doesn't make sports sedans.

    link title

    Regards,
    OW
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    Why do you think Audi is in business? Do you think their stockholders are ecstatic because their U.S sales barely make a blip on the radar screen?

    Audi's are notorious for not holding up well over time, they are notorious for having perhaps the worst dealer network in the U.S., and corporate wise they are notorious for being unresponsive and cavalier about audi owners concerns.

    This is the audi culture, and not only will it be hard to change, it seems that audi does not want to change. Whether deserved or not I don't know but this is what they have earned over the years here. Their cars look great, but underneath they are very mediocre.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • 2001gs4302001gs430 Member Posts: 767
    Interesting test. Did they try that with the Audi?
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    No...but it would be interesting because with AWD you can control steering with the drift maneuver. I would guess it would not be a one and done thing with the RS4 but I am probably wrong...could be too easy!

    Regards,
    OW
  • anthonypanthonyp Member Posts: 1,860
    I would agree with you about the dealer network , and I sure don`t think the corporate management particularly cares if a person gets car or not....On the otherhand my Audi has been very reliable, and with out a doubt superior to the Lexus it replaced in most regards, if not all....My previous Lexus cars were far superior to the cars they replaced, and Lexus cares about it`s customers, and the dealer network is by far the best of any dealers I have dealt with..I`l have this car another couple of years, but I think I`l look heavily into a hy-bred car the next go around...I wonder what will be coming down the pike?...Tony
  • bmlexusbmlexus Member Posts: 755
    Interesting posts lately. :)
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    I am not yet sold on hybrids or even the new diesels. The up front costs on the hybrids and the combination of up front cost and the cost of diesel on the diesel take all the cost effectiveness away imo.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

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