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Luxury Lounge

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    2001gs4302001gs430 Member Posts: 767
    You already have your S6? I must have missed some posts here... what color is it?
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    jimbresjimbres Member Posts: 2,025
    LG's suggestion that you enroll your daughter in a rigorous driving course is right on the money. That's probably the best investment in safety that you can make.

    I'd also second circlew's suggestion that she drive sans friends. Studies have shown that the accident rate for newly-licensed teens is higher when the other occupants are also teens than it is when the driver is alone or is accompanied by adults.

    Finally, I'd suggest that you ban all cell phone use - whether or not hands-free - in her car. A new driver simply doesn't have the mental bandwidth to carry on a phone conversation while dealing with all of the stuff that can happen on the road.
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    lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    You already have your S6? I must have missed some posts here... what color is it?

    Yep, I've had it for a little while. Still breaking the engine in, so unfortunately I haven't been able to give it a proper workout yet. In due time :) Mine looks just like this one.

    image
    image
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    louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    If you are interested in some of my other reviews, here you go...

    Pontiac G8 GT

    Acura TSX

    e46 M3 & IS F (very brief review, not in the same format)

    As you can see, I do have my own blog. ;)

    I really only write reviews like these for cars that I have a genuine interest in since I don't get paid for it... The next one coming up should be the new 2009 Acura TL.
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    tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Hyundai seems to know very little about consumer psychology

    Really?

    How many other car companies have grown in our market faster? Do you realize that Hyundai is now the fifth largest auto manufacturer in the world? Do you have any idea how this happened? Coincidence? Luck?

    And, you say they know nothing about consumers... Wow... are you aware of how many consumers Hyundai had to win over to achieve their world ranking?

    Unlike some manufacturers that are falling apart, Hyundai is making strides.

    Hyundai's Superbowl "Think about it" and "Genesis" commercials had amongst the highest "believability" ratings from consumers.

    Here's a sampling, in case you forgot:

    Genesis Ad 1

    Genesis Ad 2

    "Think about it" collection of ads

    Sorry, powders (powers...LOL), but Hyundai is a company that more and more consumers will discover over time... in much the same way you discovered your Rabbit (it is possible to put image and prestige aside, and get a really good car). So... any suggestion that that they don't know anything about consumers is just simply way off the mark... in fact, it's completely off the target.

    TM
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    tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Since I joined this forum I have always appreciated your posts, and when I read you were going for the 135i I knew you would absolutely be amazed with the dynamics of the vehicle! Personally I can honestly say my 550i is the best car I have ever driven or owned, PERIOD.

    There are faster cars, more luxurious cars and more exotic cars... but I wonder if the overall dynamics in the handling and feel of a BMW will ever be beat by a vehicle in a comparable price range.

    So, you hate that 550i, eh? ;)

    Seriously, what a great feeling it is to find a car that satisfies so well.

    Hey, David, don't be a stranger around here!! :)

    TM
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    tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Gee, you and circlew and I are all in the same boat. My daughter will turn 16 next April... yikes, that's only eight more months. I have posted in the past that I have placed a requirement upon her that she must complete the special "Highway Survival" driving clinic that is provided by Jim Russell Racing, at Infineon Raceway in Napa (formerly "Sears Point"). It's about one hour from home, and it will be well worth the fee.

    link title

    Rules of engagement? I like some of the ideas posted here, especially no boys in the car!! We'll figure it out... but safety is definately the top priority. 33% of teens WILL get into an accident!! Yikes!! And according to one study, black cars have a 44% higher probability of getting into an accident than lighter colored cars. So, most likely no black car for her first car.

    As far as what car I'll get her?... it's way too early to know yet. Certainly an A4, like you have mentioned, would be great car. Several candidates she seems interested in are Honda Civic Hybrid, Honda Civic Coupe, BMW 128i Coupe, VW Jetta. I told her we will go to an auto show this winter and look at everything. It should be exciting for her... like a kid in a candy store!

    Well... you are the trailblazer here. We can tap into your experiences with your daughter's driving and learn from them. I'm good with that. :)

    TM
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    tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    LG, I think we've all just been patiently waiting for your "review" of your S6.

    I know that I, for one, would relish in reading all about the car from your hands-on ownership perspective.

    hint... hint... ;)

    TM
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    tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Lou,

    I'm still waiting for your review of the latest M3. (When you test it, however, you probably should NOT bring your checkbook, or you might end up driving one home! And wouldn't that be just horrible?... LOL)

    ;)

    TM
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    louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    I'm still waiting for your review of the latest M3.

    I probably won't do that for a while since I don't have a "genuine interest" in that car. ;)

    Nah, jokes aside, I probably won't do it since that car is somewhat out of my league and I have come to realize that I really don't need a M/AMG/F as my daily driver. I am probably better off save up for a condo/townhouse and later on a weekend fun car like a Z06.

    Right now I am totally satisfied with cars like the IS350, G35 and 335i.

    A 2009 TL review is coming though, you can bet on it.
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    2001gs4302001gs430 Member Posts: 767
    That is one sleek machine. Congrats. Do post your impression of it for the rest of us.
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    hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Do you really think a lot of folks in the USA are going to shell out $42k for a Hyundai?

    So how come Toyota sells certain cars in Japan as Toyotas and in the USA as Lexi even though the vehicles are pretty much the same?
    Because the Japanese shrewdly knew in advance whom they were dealing with-status-conscious, fickle Americans. Do you really think the Lexus LS would have done half as well with the country-club set as a $60-$70k Toyota?

    IMO, Hyundai just made a big mistake with the Genesis. Hyundai is becoming a bit too impatient, aiming for the luxury market. You can't just put some wood in a MB look-alike and achieve instant status. Nobody I know cares a whit about spending more for a MB or Lexus over a Genesis. I wouldn't either. When one enters the luxury realm, high price is expected! Folks who are shopping for luxury vehicles are not looking for fire sales. At the very least, they shop Lexus, MB and BMW and go on up from there as you did with the 911 and as my son-in-law just did with his Ferrari. No Hyundai in his future.... you can take that one to the bank! ;)

    I still maintain, Hyundai should have copied Toyota's great business model in establishing a separate luxury division and patiently, gradually build up the respect for the new luxury brand. What's their hurry? People are banging down the doors for luxury gas-guzzlers?

    PS-Wouldn't an "Hpowers" smell as sweet? :blush: The best excuse so far goes to Tony's "out of practice"! LOL!!

    PS' The Ra___it was supposed to be an interim fill-in. The wife would learn to drive. I pass it on to her. I move on to something else. It is not turning out that way, however. So I will keep it for 2-3 years, then trade it in for a GTI or Scirocco coupe or who knows? I have been known to occasionally change my mind.
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    circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    I'll tell you this, I'd SHELL out $42K for the Genesis 10 times faster than a STS/DTS. Those cars are boxes with wheels and the Gen blows them away in looks alone.

    You think I'm alone? By the end of 2009, you can call me all wet if they do not meet their sales targets.

    Regards,
    OW
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    tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    Well, I finally got to sit in a Genesis today. I still haven't driven one, and I still feel that it's a fine looking car. However, after having actually laid hands on it, they're charging a bit too much for it. Far too much vinyl where there should be leather. It's still nicely put together and quite handsome, but they need to step their game up with the materials used. That's not to say that the thing is garbage. Nothing could be further from true. But I wouldn't pay the $40K their asking.

    They definitely need to work on their sales training. The first thing out of the guy's mouth is that they aren't negotiating on the price. Hmm... Forty thousand for a V6 Genesis or $38K - $39K for a V8 300C? Or even less for a G8 GT. They might want to rethink the pricing structure just a bit. Sadly, the salesman was doing the typical low-end-car sales tactic of treating a new/special model car like it's gold. He didn't even really want to let me get in it. One happened to be unlocked and I hopped in to get the tactile feel. As soon as I got out, he locked the thing!

    Then to add injury to the insult, he asks me if I'm driving a 328i!! A 328?!?!?!? He picked the cheapest BMW he could think of! :mad: (I drive a 550i Sport.) Hyundai's sales staff will be the biggest stumbling block to the success of the Genesis. The next hurdle is either go all leather (and real wood) or drop the price by at least $5K. I still have high hopes for it, though. Maybe next year or the year after, they'll come out with an overpriced genuine leather/wood package. :cry:
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    hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    I do believe that spending $42k for a sedan should provide a bit of entry-level status along with it.
    I mean for that kind of cash, one can drive a Lexus ES fully loaded with ML stereo, nav. and gorgeous wood.
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    circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    I will look into the closes thin out here in NJ for my daughter and I to attend...my wife says I need it far more than her!!!!! :cry:

    Regards,
    OW
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    tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    But it'd still be FWD and just a V6. :(
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    hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Say what you want, the "lowly" 328i as you call it, is so much more fun to drive than your gas-guzzling, overweight 550i.

    BMW should never have engaged themselves in 5 Series, 7 Series or SUVs.

    The one thing BMW learned to do better than anybody for the price, is build perfectly balanced, small driving machines that many of us never would have had a chance to drive without spending a fortune.

    BMW should close all the other stuff down; get back to what they do best: small vehicles. Enough with the run flats already!!

    Take it from one who knows: I had two 3 Series and a 545i. Loved the 3's. Sooo much fun! Disappointed in the driving dynamics of the 545i. Too heavy!

    My current 3000 lb. VW would absolutely run rings around any BMW 5 Series. Of course, the 550i would blow me away at the stoplight. No contest!
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    hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Well yeah! But it would get you into the country club parking lot, admittedly somewhere in the back. Deep, deep in the back! The price to pay for entry-level status. ;)
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    tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    I do believe that spending $42k for a sedan should provide a bit of entry-level status along with it.
    I mean for that kind of cash, one can drive a Lexus ES fully loaded with ML stereo, nav. and gorgeous wood.

    And, you'd still have an entry-level lowly ES. Instead, one could have a top-of-the-line Genesis. Hehe.

    Genesis V6 base price = $32,250.
    Genesis V8 base price = $37,250

    image
    image

    TM
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    tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Disappointed in the driving dynamics of the 545i.

    Oh, baloney. Let's just pull a few of your posts out of the archives, and read your descriptions of your ex-545i. Just glancing at some of them, anyone would think it was the best car ever manufactured. You had nothing but high-end praise for the car and its handling.

    Now, you are saying a Rabbit has made you see the light? image

    I forgive you for these absurdities, knowing darned well that you must be intoxicated from an over-indulgence in your wife's rum cake. ;)

    TM
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    circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    And Hyundai is moving up the satisfaction ladder...WAIT! BMW tied with Lexus??

    2008 American Customer Satisfaction Index

    Rank Make 2008 2007
    1 Lexus 87 87
    1 BMW 87 86
    2 Toyota 86 84
    2 Honda 86 84
    3 Buick 85 86
    3 Cadillac 85 86
    3 Saturn 85 81
    4 Lincoln-Mercury 83 86
    4 Hyundai 83 83
    4 GMC 83 82
    5 Mercedes-Benz 82 83
    5 Nissan 82 80
    6 Volkswagen 81 80
    7 Pontiac 80 80
    7 Ford 80 80
    7 Chrysler 80 79
    7 Mazda 80 78
    7 Kia 80 78
    8 Chevrolet 79 82
    9 Dodge 78 80
    10 Jeep 76 75

    Industry average 82 82

    UoM NQRC Customer Satisfaction Survey

    Regards,
    OW
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    tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    And Hyundai is moving up the satisfaction ladder...WAIT! BMW tied with Lexus??

    All just a bunch of lucky idiotic losers who don't have a clue what they are doing, and know nothing about consumers. ;)

    TM
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    circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    All just a bunch of lucky idiotic losers who don't have a clue what they are doing

    I confess I am one! :D

    Regards,
    OW
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    tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    Say what you want, the "lowly" 328i as you call it, is so much more fun to drive than your gas-guzzling, overweight 550i. ...

    Whoa! Whoa! :surprise: Put the guns back in the holsters, dude! Show me where I said "lowly" about the 328i? :confuse: Sheesh! Did I tear a nerve or something?
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    tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    ABT Sportsline has released its latest for the new 2009 Audi Q5. ABT has added a new exterior design package that gives the Q5 a new front fascia with larger intakes, a new rear fascia with a new rear skirt that gives the Q5 an aggressive widebody look. The ABT Sportsline Audi Q5 rides on 20-inch alloy wheels.

    Power upgrades include a 20-hp upgrade for the 2.0 liter TDI for a total of 190-hp; the 2.0 TFSI engine gets an increase to 240-hp from 211. The 3.0 liter TDI gets an increase of 70-hp to 310-hp.

    Performance has also been enhanced by an ABT’s new brake system featuring 380mm brake disks.

    link title

    image

    I kind of like this look. It was VERY disappointing that the final production VW Tiguan was so terribly diluted from the original concept. So, this Q5 kind of makes up for that.

    TM
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    anthonypanthonyp Member Posts: 1,860
    I was asked by a friend who owns a bunch of dealerships up here in the mountains of N C, about the issue of combining with existing dealership for Hyundai or a seperat one....My impression was that at this time the dealers were struggling and it was too expensive....I think Hyundai couldn`t get enough commitments therefore they will probably divide in the future.......As I purchased a Lexus in the beginning, as I remember, they had a showroom, and a few stalls , and were right next to the Toyota dealer (owned by the same person) who did some of the servicing, but quickly had another building up for Lexus AFTER it was a big success....I remember them complaining on how Toyota did business vs how they wanted to do business..

    On another point, Howard, you made the honorable sacrifice buying the diamond, therefor too much RumCake as I always remember you absolutely loved your INCOMPRABLE BMW, although I have never cared for the rear end...That problem was eliminated for me when my wife got the stationwagon, which is a sports wagon... I`l get a little paractice in Hpowders Hpowders.....Your Friend Tony
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    hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    I'm saying that the 545i was a disappointment compared to either of my two 3 Series.
    I have always liked my of rum cake slices large and my vehicles small.

    The 545i handled like an agile but heavy vehicle. You couldn't take turns with it like you can a 3 Series, 1 Series or Ra____it. What it did have was a lot of smooth, effortless power from a fantastic engine and amazing balance for its size. It also had a driver's window that many times would go up half way and then back down again with no prodding from me. I tried the window several times when totally sober and it still went up half way and back down again.

    For a heavy car, the 545i handled well. When compared to the best of the smaller cars, it loses.

    The Ra____it is a lot of fun to drive as it should be given its 3000lbs, inline 5 and 6 speed Tiptronic. It has no torque steer but does have a bit of body lean. Minor but noticeable. The Ra____it will not be a long-term vehicle for me.

    The new Scirocco, another variation of the Ra____it platform, if it makes it to the US in 2009-2010, should prove exciting. It is supposed to be an enhancement of the 2 door GTI and will take the place of the newly defunct R32. I may trade for that one.
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    oacoac Member Posts: 1,594
    It sounds like you're doing all the right things. Lucky girl getting an Audi for her first car... Is that with AWD or just FWD?

    With the Quattro - best of all worlds...
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    hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Tony, I always loved BMW. You are right! Like I posted already, I felt I was treated rather shabbily by the service people at my dealership, this after 12 years of bringing BMWs to them.

    But, time tends to heal some wounds, and I may decide one day to forgive and forget in the admirable pursuit of no body lean. If I do decide to go back, BMW will have to get rid of those dreadful run-flat tires. I wouldn't be caught dead in a BMW that has them.... unless it is of natural causes. ;)

    Speaking of the diamond ring, my wife has cubic zirconia rings too and one of her favorite tricks is putting on a fake ring and asking me if it is the ring I bought her and vice versa. Having XY chromosomes, of course they all look the same to me.

    One of my favorite tricks is picking up my wife at the mall by parking in a row with one or two other small silver cars. I tell her to find our car. She usually can't. Must be the XX chromosomes! :)
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    hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Okay. Maybe you didn't say "lowly" regarding the 328i.

    I had driven a 2008 328i several months ago and as with all BMW vehicles with inline 6 engines, I found it to have disappointing low-end power. Once at speed, however, I found it to be a very satisfying vehicle.
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    lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    LG, I think we've all just been patiently waiting for your "review" of your S6.

    I know that I, for one, would relish in reading all about the car from your hands-on ownership perspective.

    hint... hint...

    I've been meaning to get to a complete review, I just haven't really had the time. The short version is its very, very good. Yes it's front heavy, but the grip is endless, and it's surprisingly lithe for a big Audi. There's a lot more information coming through the steering wheel than you would expect. It will dance if you want it to, but it's also perfectly happy being a cruiser. The suspension is more than up to the task of handling all that power, which wasn't the case in the last E55 AMG I drove, and it's just as smooth in city traffic as a regular A6, which wasn't the case in the M5 I drove. That car just never calms down.

    I think the S6 is the best looking car in the mid-lux class. The S treatments add the subtle touch of aggressiveness that the A6 needs to make it look fantastic, without making the car look cartoonish or cheapening the styling in any way. The interior doesn't have any of the XF's James Bond tricks, but the materials and switch gear all feel very high quality, which isn't the case in the Jag. When it has a few more miles on it, I'll post more.
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    circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    The S6 is at the top in class-leading style and performance. Best of luck with this outstanding car!

    Regards,
    OW
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    circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    50K units for the Gensesis including the coupe in 2009. Here is some info.

    The bold Genesis sales forecast comes in the face of a seriously struggling industry and record-high gasoline prices. Company officials remain unfazed: Krafcik says Hyundai is gaining prominence among consumers who are increasingly less-skeptical of the brand - and its residual values are among the industry leaders.

    Krafcik says all this, combined with the swirl of rapidly-evolving economic influences in the U.S., has created an "inflection point" of opportunity for Hyundai to launch a BMW- and Lexus-baiting flagship - "the democratization of luxury," as he calls it.

    "Yes, I know - it's probably not the best time to launch a V8," said Krafcik. The good news, he says, "is how darn efficient it is."

    Supporting the point, Environmental Protection Agency fuel-economy ratings for the Genesis 4.6 are 17 mpg city/25 mpg highway - only slightly behind the 18 mpg city/27 mpg highway generated by the V6-powered Genesis.

    Meanwhile, Krafcik confirms Hyundai is bucking the overall U.S. market, tracking to end the year with its highest-ever total market share, which currently is about 3.2 percent. Hyundai now is the market's No. 7 brand in terms of overall sales.

    TM, you are right on the money as usual.

    Here is the entire piece.

    Less Snooty Fare/a>

    Regards,
    OW
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    tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    The S6 sounds delightful. I'll wait to hear more. I haven't personally checked the car out yet, and the last time I visited the Audi dealer was to kill a few early hours on July 4th. Wife came along. I was expecting a big sale with lots of red, white and blue balloons everywhere... but... the place was closed and I was the only tire kicker anywhere to be found. It was eerily quiet. So, we went to Mercedes for no real reason. It was a waste of time. I did learn that the CLK will be replaced and that it's convertible will trail the new coupe by at least a year. I'm guessing a retractable hardtop is in the works, even though the dealer said no. Anyway, I've always liked MB, and still do, but my visit to the MB dealership was surprisingly boring. My wife was semi-interested in the CLK and the SL and SLK.

    So, my visit to the Audi delership will be something I'll look forward to. They did not have many cars on hand, though. And, there were a few new '07 models still hanging around with "sale" signs on them. I'll wait until the new models have rolled in. It will be more fun that way.

    So... you continue to enjoy that S6! Sounds like a particularly excellent combination of spirited driving dynamics and comfortable cruising, all rolled up together in a well-crafted machine. Very nice.

    TM
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    lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    So... you continue to enjoy that S6! Sounds like a particularly excellent combination of spirited driving dynamics and comfortable cruising, all rolled up together in a well-crafted machine. Very nice.

    That sums it up quite well. The S6 is solid as concrete when compared to the LS430, but it's not uncomfortable. The fact that it's unfazed by pretty much everything gives you a kind of confidence behind the wheel that I've experienced in few other cars. In situations where the LS would slip a bit and the VSC light would come on, the S6 just grabs the road like it has claws, and you're off.
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    blckislandguyblckislandguy Member Posts: 1,150
    I just ran a "screen" on cars.com to see what you could get for 45K. It was interesting to see how closely the cars clustered. For 45K a buyer could choose between a MY 05/ 06 S Class or BMW 7 Series. Still only have 45K but want something different? The same 45K or less would buy you an 07 BMW 5 Series, Audi A6 or an A8, or a XJ Jag. Have a hankering for a Range Rover Sport? Lots of 06's for 45K are available.

    My figure of 45K seems to be the sweet spot of used high end pricing. A buyer would get a car with some remaining new car factory warranty or , if not, a factory CPO warranty. With a little patience the car you buy could have less than 20 K on the odometer. The contrarian in the crowd could buy an almost new A8 for A6 money.

    We live in funny times. There really isn't any difference in price among these used high end sedans. Sure, you may have to give up a model year if you wanted an S Class but you could find one with low miles to make up for the loss of a MY. The only disappointment is that for Porsche 911 bargain hunters , anything newer than a 2003 is out of reach.

    On a highly personal note, I think that the BMW 7 Series looks and drives much better and has less social-psychological baggage than an S Class. To my eyes a black or dark blue 7 Series looks great. I could even see myself driving one in the hiking shorts I wear on summer weekends. But a black S Class IMHO looks like you are trying too hard. For those of us in the northeast , its unfortunate that you can't get an AWD 7 Series.

    YMMV
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    tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    This is the scoop...

    Adding to its already distinguished résumé, the Mercedes-Benz S-Class has once again been named the best new luxury car in the Auto Express "New Car Honours." This marks the third consecutive year the S-Class has won the award, a further testament to the luxury sedan's impressive dominance in its respective segment.

    According to Auto Express editor in chief David Johns: "Few cars have reigned over such competitive sectors with such complete authority as the Mercedes-Benz S-Class. To many there simply isn’t a better limousine. Beautifully engineered both inside and out, it’s one of those rare cars that is as good to drive as it is to be driven in."

    link title

    It seems like it's been a while since we've posted about the S-Class, but it deserves the recognition for this award.

    edit: B.I.G., I posted this before I saw your interesting post, and I see your point about the 7-Series as opposed to the S-Class. This post was not meant to counter that point in any way. Actually, I agree with your perspective, and besides, this award is for the current generation S-Class, and not the former generation "used" S-Class that you are referring to. Thanks for the post.

    TM
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    m4d_cowm4d_cow Member Posts: 1,491
    thanks, glad to see someone else having the exact same point as mine on Genesis.

    umm, rum..kake? kayke? :P ohhh, rum cake :P just kidding.

    Genesis itself, sans the whole marketing blunder, is a good car. Wont say I like it a lot, but its decent. However as good as it is, I have my concerns about it's chance for success, considering:
    1. Image. related to people's perception, and its really hard to change, takes time as there's no shortcut to this.
    2. Targeting the wrong market. Hyundai is pushing the Gen to fight Lexus, at this level no Hyundai is currently good enough.
    3. Poor customer service. If Hyundai expect luxury shoppers to stop at Hyundai's dealership, they need to provide that experience worthy of a luxo brand. So far Hyundai doesnt deliver that.
    4. Product quality. Good by car standards, good by near-luxury standards, but mediocre by luxury standards.

    Trying to nail luxury car buyers isnt easy, and Hyundai doesnt have the right cards yet. Point is: the car itself is good, by normal standards, but fighting in the wrong race. Apparently even Hyundai agrees, as the company now put 300, Avalon and Maxima as their potential market competitors rather than Lexus.
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    m4d_cowm4d_cow Member Posts: 1,491
    is to compare Gen with a 98 Lexus GS (admittedly Gen's target). Apart from price, Gen loses big time. Quality: lexus wins, sevice: lexus wins, image:lexus wins, reliability: lexus wins. How can the car stand a chance when it cant even beat a 10 year old model from Lexus?

    Once we put Gen in the right market, comparison is easier to do.
    Interior: good design, appropriate materials for the market, only Avalon has better materials and its arguably bland looking next to Gen's interior. 300c in contrast comes with low rent plastic interior that feels more like plastic toys than real interior panels.
    Style: decent, not as bland as LaCrosse or Avalon but not as extreme as the 300 and Maxima either.
    Performance: as far as I know its about class average, with 300 Hemi the only better one.
    Service: other's customer service is about the same as Hyundai's
    Value: with Avalon asking $35k and Chrysler pushing 40k for 300c, the Gen is right at home.

    Its obvious isnt it? Hyundai is a great alternative in this class, and customers should look again.
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    tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Comparing the two, Lexus LS has lost the "value" card to Hyundai Genesis.

    Lexus will get a taste of their own medicine.

    TM
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    m4d_cowm4d_cow Member Posts: 1,491
    Equus (sp)? LOL. Potential joke material in the future. I drive an Equus = I drive a horse :P Potential jokes aside, I suspect only a few people will ever know what an Equus is, thus few are likely to make fun of it.

    Its hilarious though :P , go for it!!!

    Btw, heres what I came up with on 911, a whopping quote of $58062 for an 06 and $54400 for an 05, both mediumly equipped. The 997 resale value is greater than I thought. Making it worse is its near impossible to find mildly optioned 911 around here (and anywhere else from what I heard). Conclusion: 911 is, unfortunately, out.

    BIG, thanks for the info. Anything you'd recommend?
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    m4d_cowm4d_cow Member Posts: 1,491
    Sorry, I meant to write $68062 and $64400 for the 911s
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    lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    The only disappointment is that for Porsche 911 bargain hunters , anything newer than a 2003 is out of reach.

    I didn't think there was such a thing as a Porsche 911 "bargain" :)

    On a highly personal note, I think that the BMW 7 Series looks and drives much better and has less social-psychological baggage than an S Class. To my eyes a black or dark blue 7 Series looks great.

    The previous gen 7 series post refresh was a pretty good looking car, and definitely looks a lot better than the old gen S-class, which is starting to look ancient. That design hasn't aged particularly well. The old 7's interior though was pretty lousy by the standards of the class. I'd rather have the A8.
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    hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    As if the Genesis wasn't enough, Hyundai has set its sights even higher-working on a vehicle, the "VG sedan", that will be aimed directly at the BMW 7 Series! This vehicle will apparently be classy enough to make it as a step up from ordinary Hyundai to their luxury Equus division. I guess the Genesis couldn't make the cut, so those who shell out $42k will just have to sit on the same hard wooden chairs in the service dept. as those spending $16k on their Hyundai's. Come to think of it, the more I look at the Genesis' interior, the more cheap, hard plastic I see. The Genesis folks should feel right at home at Hyundai's service dept. watching their vehicles' residuals shrink as they wait-just like the other Hyundai owners.

    As for the "VG", Hundai's timing couldn't be better; who would argue that this is not the time for another gas-guzzling, oversized luxo-barge? They call it Equus. Might as well have called it Edsel.
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    tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Wow... That's the same sign I noticed was posted at the VW service dept. when I owned the GTI. I guess now that you own a Rabbit, you'll have to put up with the "common folk". Just terrible. I'm sure those Genesis owners will really suffer with the visits twice a year. Hope you and they like the cheap coffee and donuts... that is, of course, unless one of those previous low-life customers didn't steal them all.

    And, to top it off... in your recent post, you were just complaining about the poor treatment at your BMW dealer!!

    "Think about it", Powders. OMG!... That's Hyundai's ad slogan!.... Hehehe.

    TM
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    hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    I wonder why Hyundai didn't choose the Genesis to be an "Equus"?
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    hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Uhhh....the difference is I made a choice. It wasn't a necessity. If I'm not happy, I could easily go back to those damn run-flats by the end of September.
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    tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    If you really hate those run-flats so much... it's pretty simple to exchange them for some terrific tires. CHOOSE something else. ;)

    TM
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    blckislandguyblckislandguy Member Posts: 1,150
    I agree with you that the old gen S Class is starting to look creaky. But, the surprising thing (and I always go back to the data) is that its relative resale is so strong. I say "relative resale" because the resale is not good for any high end luxo sedan.

    I would have thought that with all the "early adopters" migrating to the new S Class, that the old gen S Class would have taken a hit and be now close to an E Class in resale. Afterall, the same engine is available in an E Class, the S Class hasn't had a great reputation for reliability, there is some negative baggage that goes along with driving one, and so on. This hasn't happened yet. Why? Maybe the brand is that strong? For a lot of people, especially non-car nuts, the S Class, like the IBM PC of 30 years ago, is only way to go.

    Now, speaking of resale, can someone tell me why with the exception of some highly dubious stuff on Ebay, one can't find a used Bentley Continental for under 100K? Wasn't the MSPR only $120 or so, four years ago?
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