Luxury Lounge

circlew

I hear ya. It looked good to me.

Regards,
OW

circlew

I get where you are coming from. The Tii will probably look the part as standard fare compared to this mod.

The wheels do look good to me!

Regards,
OW

laurasdada

I believe that there is an exception to that pronunciation rule:

The Thurston Howell the Third Exception: "Luvvy, please fetch my beeemer..."

Bimmer just wouldn't sound right coming from TH III...

tagman

Those are indeed nice... but the OP was more interested in THIS car... LOL.













Ooops... how'd THAT happen?

TM

tagman

Bimmer just wouldn't sound right coming from TH III...

Laurasdahhdahh... He'd say "Bimmahh". :P

TM

pat

Actually, in all of his flamboyant pretentiousness, I do believe he'd say Beee-maaah with no clue what he should be calling it. Don't you think he'd have been one of those who merely wear the car?

tagman

link title

Thanks to my recent VW GTI purchase, and especially our Mr. H.'s cwazy wabbit purchase, VW is now the 3rd largest automaker in the world!!!

BTW, Mr. H... Hyundai is number 5 and closing... hehehe!

TM

tagman

No doubt about it! You've hit the nail on the head. LOL!

Wonder what Gilligan would have said? :confuse:

TM

tagman

Sorry, Lou, but you'll have to scratch this off the list. j/k

Actually, my friend, you'd be better served with the ZR-1 anyway... at least IMHO.

I was looking forward to seeing this halo car make it to production, though. Oh well, everyone is tightening the belt nowadays. Heck, I keep trying to tighten the belt, but my darn waistline seems to be fighting back more and more lately.

link title

TM

tagman

Here's the Genesis review from TTAC...

link title

TM

laurasdada

"Wonder what Gilligan would have said?"

Gilligan: Gee, Skipper! Do you think The Professor could make a Beemer out of these coconuts and vines?

Skipper: Gilligan! (Skipper swats Gilligan with hat) That's Bimmer!

Chris Bangle: Hmm, we'll need much bigger coconuts for the proper rear end design...

Ginger: Did someone say Bimmer?

(And insert your own Ginger retort to Bangle's comment...!)

Tag: That was I, my dear. As in 135... Maryanne is out test driving it... The name is Man. Tag Man.

Harlem Globetrotters: Why do we keep ending up on this desert island???

louiswei

That's pretty terrible news but I'll bet that two days later there will be another report saying that the LF-A is on schedule as planned.

Until I hear something official from Lexus/Toyota I'll just take it with A LOT of salt.

pat

ROFLOL!!

Excellent!!

tagman

Dah Dah,

I really have no adequate words to reply to that post. One of your funniest yet! If you lived out here, I'd insist on having you over for steak and beer!

Best regards,

TM

tagman

Lou,
That really IS terrible news. I am disappointed as well.
TM

laurasdada

Hmmm. If one was to add ZFX to their beer, would the buzz arrive sooner and last longer?

If only I could use my "wit" for profit, the wife might actually believe my thoughts had merit and might listen to me!? Nah, not bloody likely...

lexusguy

Here's the Genesis review from TTAC...

That's actually their second Genesis review. JB's earlier review of the V6 is significantly less flattering, and more in line with my feelings on the car.

"...Hyundai has reprised its role as the firm that can build the most generic car on the road. Just like the XG350 that my ashtray-throwing friend lambasted, this is without doubt Hyundai’s best car yet. But it’s not special. Without the right or indeed any luxury brand logo, it will make for a tough sell. And a questionable buy."

Link

lexusguy

I was looking forward to seeing this halo car make it to production, though. Oh well, everyone is tightening the belt nowadays. Heck, I keep trying to tighten the belt, but my darn waistline seems to be fighting back more and more lately.

I was curious to see the production LF-A as well, but I'm not really surprised. This would've been way too expensive (the initial targets were closer to Ford GT pricing, not $250K) and I don't think there were able to make it as fast as it needed to be.

The rumor mill also says that the GS-F has either been put on hold, or killed off as well. Lexus is significantly changing their focus away from chasing AMG, towards hybrid powered efficiency.

tagman

I think it's safe to say, LG, that the V8 Genesis is the one to keep our eyes on.

TM

tagman

Not ever seeing the LF-A will really disappoint me, but I shed no tears over not seeing a GS-F.

TM

blckislandguy

Like a lot of people I love the way that the internet makes information available to everyone. Take for example comparing cars. A week or so ago, I reported on what a screen of used high end sedans with an asking price of 45K or less showed. I used Cars.com as the data base. Lots of nice cars could be had for 45K. Most only a year or two old.

Here is another screen. This one is for the contrarians in the crowd, again using the easy to use Cars.com data.

1) BMW 7 Series standard wheel base. The 2006 and newer 750iL's (long wheel base) cars seeming are all in the low to mid 50's on Cars.com. BUT, if you look carefully you'll find the standard 750i sedans beginning at 45K even with a BMW CPO! This is good news because the 750iL back seat to my eyes is cavernous and only if you have a new wife with young kids would you ever use it. Moreover, the short wheel base car must be a lot more nimble and fun to drive. Note that this price difference is greater than the original MSRP difference between the long and short wheelbase. (Sure, maybe the 750iL's come loaded up with useless stuff like "soft close" doors but do you really want to pay for that?)

2) Audi A8. A late model A8 can be had for the price of a the same MY A6. This is a good car but a weak brand. Anyone who goes up to Vermont every winter weekend to go skiing couldn't do any better than doing it in an A8. For the price of an A6.

3) The XJ is long in the tooth and due for a makeover. The cars run flawlessly and have won JD Power awards like there is no tommorow. But their resale is awful. For those of us that don't have to have a German car, a used XJ is your way to save 20K! Full disclosure: I think that Tagman may have mentioned this a couple of years ago.

On a related note , this months Car & Driver has a nice piece on the "Best Car, New or Used, for $25,000". In the article they include a 1999 E55, a 911, a Vette, etc. Nice article. I always thought the the car mags catered too much to the manufacturer's by only comparing new cars. C & D has broken some new ground here.

circlew

I actually did your screen myself after you brought it up. Excellent way to get into a great car at a hude discount. Granted they have some miles but the brands you mentioned will return value at $45K that was not apparent as long ago as last year.

Good stuff and has me thinking for sure!

Regards,
OW

search4truth

Check out the hard numbers in this latest article from Newsweek on luxury autos:

http://www.businessweek.com/lifestyle/content/aug2008/bw20080825_862083.htm

Here is the list of the 10 America's most-leased cars, and their lease count as per centage of vehicle "sales" :

BMW 7 series . . . 85.3%
Saab 9-7X . . . 82.2%
Audi A6 . . . 74.1%
BMW Z4 . . . 70.7%
MB E-Class . . . 70%
Range Rover . . . 69.6%
BMW 6 series . . . 68.6%
Audi A4/S4 . . . 68%
BMW X3 . . . 67.3%
Jaguar XJ . . . 65.8%

Now you know the truth when the next marketting guy tells you that those European luxury cars are worth their MSRP's because most cars are bought by real buyers paying those prices. Keep in mind that those numbers are 2008 through August 10th, which already include a period of drasticly reduced lease incentives since May time frame; the ratio was probably even more lop-sided in 2007 and before, when the assertions were made. BMW's occupy 4 out of the top 10 slots.

m4d_cow

as the term beemer and bimmer are considered the same around here, maybe its because there are no bmw motorcycles sold here.

Dada,
I'm so out of words, LMAO

m4d_cow

and now X1. As the X3 is already positioned as compact SUV, how will BMW place the X1???? Does it mean BMW will create a new segment called, uh....., sub-compact SUV??? :confuse:

Ohhh, wait a minute, I get it, BMW NEVER use the term SUV, its SAV, so its sub-compact SAV, which makes sense now cuz even in the form of X3 BMW really missed the U in "suv". :P :P

TM, I tested the active steering in the 05 530. It was terrible, as the ratio keeps changing. I lost the feel of linear control I like. No matter how helpful the active steering is, I just cant find myself liking it. I'm old fashioned I guess

search4truth

X1 is a hatchback. It's much lower than X3 and X5. X3 compares in size to CR-V and previous generation RAV4. X1 is the size of Matrix. If gas prices stay high (may well be the case), having a glorified hatchback about that size may not be a bad idea if BMW can come up with a good engine for marketting purpose . . . the current I6 displaching 3 liters won't get above 25mpg combined cycle even for a car that small . . . that would be a real problem when Lexus turns out a dressed up V6 RAV4 turning in 24mpg combined cycle with 30mpg for hybrid, with interior space significantly greater than X5. Infiniti EX is not doing well because people realize that if the gas mileages are just as bad as SUV's, why not get an SUV; on the other hand, why jack up the car if the interior space is no better than a subcompact car/hatchback, which would have better handling.

search4truth

"I believe G35 come closest to matching BMW, with braking even surpassing 3er's. But the feel is different, for instance: with the 3 you can brake gradually, smoothly and still stop at, say 100ft."

That was the case with many generations of earlier 3's, but not the case with the latest offerings. It is a pity that almost all carmakers now worship at the alter of test strip numbers, linear brake modulation be damned.

search4truth

I always felt that the V10 stayed on the shelf for too long and became obsolete during the "to be or not to be" exercise. Turbo V8 and/or Hybrids seem to be much more logical approaches nowadays for a low volume halo car. Having a dedicated foundary and parts bin hanging around for the V10 doesn't seem to make much sense.

search4truth

Yes, I too noticed that the V8 luxury cars are getting killed on the secondary market. It's tempting to pick up one, just for a "family limo" :-) On the other hand, I can't help wondering just how much of that original price in the primary market was real to begin with. After all, a brand new R-class can be had for $500/mo, and it's on the same platform as S-class, only with the wheelbase stretched even longer and height raised to that of the Rolls-Royce and Maybach (the latter of which is also on the S-class platform, with a huge dose of price markup for little investment on MB's part, so MB claims).

tagman

TM, I tested the active steering in the 05 530. It was terrible, as the ratio keeps changing.

Firstly, what was the standard ratio of the 530? 'Cause if it was already adequate, then the Active Steering served less purpose! As far as the ratio changing, at any steady vehicle speed, it doesn't just offer one ratio one moment and then another the next. The same speed always delivers the exact same ratio. Any ratio changes are only in specific relation to the speed of the vehicle... so it's intuitive, after adjusting to it... which is necessary... otherwise it feels weird. If you travel very fast, the ratio slows down to eliminate twitchiness. When you go slow, as when cornering for example, the ratio is more responsive.

I can't speak for the '05 530. I don't know what it was like. Maybe it was bad. Nor do I know how much of a test you gave it, as it takes a while to acclimate to it.

TM

tagman

Thanks for the data. And, welcome to the board. I'll look forward to more posts from you. Not that it is any kind of prerequisite, but are you driving or planning on driving a luxury or performance car that might be of interest? And, where are you located, if you don't mind?

TM

2001gs430

So this appears to confirm how BMW used to add values to its products without appearing to be a value player in the eyes of the general public, unlike Lexus .

circlew

Perhaps, but not anymore as residuals dropped like a lead anchor! It's Premium Pricing All The Way in 2009 whether you lease or buy.

Regards,
OW

tagman

Perhaps, but not anymore as residuals dropped like a lead anchor! It's Premium Pricing All The Way in 2009 whether you lease or buy

No, OW... Unless it's a high-demand vehicle, if you buy in '09, you will likely be in a position to negotiate a very good discount.

TM

circlew

OK. We will see.

Thanks,
OW

lexusguy

The XJ is long in the tooth and due for a makeover. The cars run flawlessly and have won JD Power awards like there is no tommorow. But their resale is awful. For those of us that don't have to have a German car, a used XJ is your way to save 20K!

I've been saying around here for quite awhile that the XJR is the best used luxury bargain on the market. You can spend way less than $45K, and still get a current gen, full-size 400hp luxury car. You've got to love that. Heck, you can even go nuts and get a Super V8 Portfolio under your price limit.

tagman

I've been saying around here for quite awhile that the XJR is the best used luxury bargain on the market. You can spend way less than $45K, and still get a current gen, full-size 400hp luxury car. You've got to love that. Heck, you can even go nuts and get a Super V8 Portfolio under your price limit.

I also have posted at length, numerous times, about the benefits of an '04 and newer XJ Vanden Plas. '05 is the best choice, IMO, and the Vanden Plas provides the highest level of luxury to the XJ line, aside from the more-expensive limited Portfolio. The XJ Vanden Plas offers the longer wheelbase version and many exclusive features.

I still believe that an '05 XJ Vanden Plas is an amazing bargain. I have one, and it's advantage over the XJR is the incredible fuel-efficiency of the XJ Vanden Plas, and it is nothing short of shocking. The huge car weighs in at only slightly more than a BMW 3-Series due to its aluminum construction, and it's HP is also equivalent to the BMW 135i and 335i Twin-Turbo engine, delivering more than 300 HP, with tons of torque as well. And, we all know that 300+ HP in that weight category is terrific. So... the performance is already unquestionably much more than adequate for a luxury car, yet delivers mpg well into the mid-upper twenties on the freeway and upper teens around town. That's amazing! Practically Lexus hybrid level gas mileage! The XJ's reliability is also tops. Mine has been 100% perfect so far! Not one single problem.

I hate to part with it, cause what could I ever buy anywhere even NEAR it's selling price?

It has nearly every feature that a luxury car should have, including two built-in headrest monitors for rear passengers enjoyment. My son particularly likes to watch movies in the back seat, because I occassionally need to take him for lengthy drives. I feel like his chauffeur. Jaguar's voice-recognition is amongst the best as well, as the system learns, remembers, and recognizes the driver's voice, resulting in almost zero voice-command errors which plague many other cars with voice command.

Definately consider the '05 Jaguar XJ, XJL, XJR, and, IMO, especially the XJ Vanden Plas as a luxury vehicle that can be practically stolen!

TM

tagman

There's a rumor that Consumer Reports has just published some very favorable remarks about the BMW 1-Series. Supposedly, they have given the 1er their top rating, and have officially blessed the car with CR love and praise.

I can't verify any of this because I still hate CR, and I won't subscribe... even if it ends up to be true that they have come to their senses and given the 1-Series the credit and respect it deserves.

TM

theanimal

I too considered the 04/05 XJ as it really is a great bargain. Only problem is I am in my later 30's and I thought the car was just too 'old' for me. The other car that is a tremendous bargain is the 04/05 Audi A8L (aluminum as well to boot). I believe it has even more room than the XJ, but has a bit more driving dynamics, as well as Quattro for all weather traction. Same as the Jag, I wouldn't do an 04 as it's a first model year, but I did go for a loaded out 05 last month for a low $30K price range, certified to boot. That is a ton of car for the money, and I feel that you really can't go wrong with either one of these cars as a purchase.

tagman

Excellent treasure hunting!

I agree the XJ appears dated, 'cause it is. But, I'm willing to overlook that for all the car offers, and consider it's appearance to be "classic".. LOL.

TM

jimbres

As a long-time subscriber, I can confirm that the October issue rated the 135i first in a group of what CR referred to as "sporty cars". An excerpt follows:

The 135i has exceptional handling, with well-controlled body motions during cornering. This is complemented by quick, communicative and well-weighted steering. When pushed on our track, it was stable, with tenacious grip, although understeer was more pronounced than we'd like. It breezed through our avoidance maneuver with the highest speed in this group.

Despite its very good cornering, the 135i doesn't beat you up with a stiff ride. It's taut but supple. The car is somewhat choppy at low speeds but steadier and more absorbent as speed increases. Overall, the ride is very good for this class.

To keep the price down to $37K, CR ordered a 135i coupe without leather or most other options. I would assume that their test car was not equipped with active steering. CR criticized some of the controls as "needlessly complex and frustrating" but otherwise loved the car.

m4d_cow

But still demand respect whereever it goes. And I havent heard anyone saying XJ looks too old. Most say, classic, a bit dated, but still classy.
Then again, for someone my age I'd probably feel too young to drive one.

tagman

Thanks, Jim... that's amazing to me, coming from CR. Some understeer is a common discovery, usually made when the car is being pushed harder than it really should be pushed... but then again, the 135i begs to be driven hard. As with most reviews, they like the steering. I can tell you point blank though, that as nice as the standard steering might be, it is in all honesty a slow ratio. That said, if there was no Active Steering available, I'd still be more than grateful to have the car without it. But, given that there is an option... I really do prefer it, but only after becoming acclimated to it.

I still can't get over this... Consumer Reports actually loves the 135i!

Well, that pretty much tells me it's time for me to go buy a clipboard.

TM

m4d_cow

Might as well get the 1er 5-door hatch here.

I got the impression of mini-X6 instead. BMW is pushing its luck way too far this time. As far as I know the 1-er is considered a niche car, more fashion statement than value. Hows that gonna work out with x1? I'm confused :confuse:

tagman

TM

theanimal

When I said the XJ looks too 'old', I didn't mean dated. I meant it is too 'mature' for a person of my age, mid-late 30's. To me, just the Jaguar name itself is geared towards an older driver. I do not know anyone who drives the lower level Jaguars, but I know lots of people who drive A4's and A6's.

I do think the XJ is a very attractive car. My mother drives a 2002 XJ, and while the new one has a nice resemblance, I do find the 04+ models to have a more muscular stance. That being said, for someone my age I find the A8 much more appropriate. I just mentioned to my wife the deals that can be found on the XJ's and maybe she should consider it as her next car. Her reply to me was, "How old do you think I am?" Regardless of the deal, I'm not going to fall into that hole...

Enjoy your XJ though, that car is a beauty.

jimbres

I still can't get over this... Consumer Reports actually loves the 135i!

You really shouldn't be surprised. Back in 2001, when I bought my 330i, CR tested a 3-series sedan & praised it effusively. A year or two later, CR called the E39 5-series the best sedan on the market at any price. CR's test staff values great driving dynamics as much as anyone who frequents this forum.

I know that many of you dislike CR because it treats cars as if they were appliances. That's exactly why I wouldn't buy a new car without first reading CR's review. My wife & I pay cash for our cars & expect to keep them for at least 8 years. We don't want infatuation to drive our decision making. For me, CR is the cold shower that keeps me from doing something stupid & expensive. Before I write that big check, I want to be sure that I can live with my choice for years to come. I don't want to decide 6 months later that I made a terrible mistake that I simply can't put up with any longer. Reading car reviews that are written in the same language as tests of front-loading washing machines helps prevent that.

search4truth

Thank you for the welcome mat. I don't drive much nowadays, as I'm chauffered around about 7-8 thousand miles a year. Was considering a 135 for track use, until finding out that the car's turbo cooling is inadequate for extended high performance driving.

search4truth

Depending on what you mean by "general public." The bought and paid for marketting folks insisted that discounting did not exist, so did the fake accountants. The real general public was quite clueful about the discount as evidenced by the 70% lease rate, compared to the industry average of 20% range.

search4truth

Very much agree. Prices are what they are, including all the heavy discounting, because of supply and demand. The discounts were/are necessary to reflect market clearing prices. Wild pronouncements about dropping discounting cold turkey are just silly. For example, GM's recent fake price raise can not possibly stick. 2008 and 2009 are going to be a tough years for the auto industry. Luxury cars that effectively sold for less in the booming years are going to drop like flies if the subsidies are removed and prices raised in tough time.