Luxury Lounge

search4truth

You are correct. I also remember CR staff praising 3 and 5 on test driving new cars. CR info comes from two sources: from reviews on new products, and from membership owner longer term feedback. CR's problem with BMW (compared to some other luxury brands) is in the latter category.

circlew

Well, judging from the 1-series perspective, there are no special lease or financing offers currently. I understand there are no leftovers for the 1-er since it is a new model and in high demand.

That indicates prices will stay firm in 2009 until availability increases. As for the rest of the line, .9% financing is available now since sales have tanked for the SUV's and 5/7 series.

I would guess finance rates will stay low for the next few months until oil spikes back to $130 BBL as the NE winter hits. Alternately prices should continue to rise necessitating increasing interest rates. On leases, the residuals have dropped, effectively raising prices.

Basically, I agree now is a good time to buy but I'll bet the prices stick on the Lux models that are in high demand.

Regards,
OW

tagman

I received a direct call from my BMW rep offering me a 3-Series for "whatever it takes... Including invoice pricing". He said business was way too slow, and there were too many cars in inventory. Another factor, of course, is that the 3er will be updated for '09, so clearing out the '08s becomes a more immediate priority... they might be less desireable to the prospective buyers, even if discounted... and they will take up inventory space that could be better off being filled with '09s.

TM

anthonyp

Do you use a lemo. service, or a company(your own) car, and what type? Welcome aboard Tony

lexusguy

That being said, for someone my age I find the A8 much more appropriate.

The two full-size lux cars I like the most are the A8, and the Maserati QP. The previous gen A8 was incredibly bland, but Audi really got this one right. The design seems to be aging much better than the prev. gen S-class, and I think it looks better than the new 7.

tagman

The two full-size lux cars I like the most are the A8, and the Maserati QP.

Now that the Maser has the tranny issue resolved, it makes for a much better car.

You might or might not recall this, but you'll appreciate this anyway. A couple of years ago after having been to the local International Auto Show, I wrote a lengthy post about my reaction to the many vehicles I saw at the show. One of the cars that impressed me the most at the show happened to be none other than an Audi S8 which was on display. The car was to die for. In one word... magnificent!

TM

cdnpinhead

"I still can't get over this... Consumer Reports actually loves the 135i!"

Yeah, and they loved the Chrysler LH cars back in the mid '90's, until a year or two later, when they threw them under the bus. They also said good things about the Lincoln LS at the introduction -- a few years later, not so much.

The appliance point of view will win, long term, with the CR crowd.

Maybe the 1-series will retain the CR halo for more than a year or two. Maybe not.

Hide and watch.

tagman

Well... you will notice that I made absolutely no gesture towards warming up to CR, even though they praised my 1er. I stand firm in my opinion of CR.

These were my words... "I still hate CR, and I won't subscribe... even if it ends up to be true that they have come to their senses and given the 1-Series the credit and respect it deserves."

Sorry to those that like the publication... I, for one, do not.

TM

nickq7

I had an 05 A8L and I loved it. If you can get a low mileage A8L now for $20 to $30 k then jump on it. I used to call mine the 'fortress' because she was great in bad weather and made me feel very safe. The Quattro stabilized well when there were big puddles on one side and dryness on the other. Tracking on the highway was dead on, and the steering had a nice feel, not 'freewheeling light touch and no feedback" like some other luxury cars. The movie 'Transporter 2' also helped with the appeal....

laurasdada

After dinner, the wife took the family out to a local Dairy Bar for ice cream. We sat on a bench, them enjoying their "kiddie" sized cones while I gorged myself on a large cup (tub?). Props, it was indeed LARGE!

They sat facing the cows, not I. Too much like looking into a mirror for me, I faced the parking lot/road. Better to check out the cars. As I was scanning the lot, I noted from the left side of the building, a black Audi Q7 slowly entering. As it revealed itself, I immediately flashed to the opening sequence of Star Wars as we watch the underside of the Imperial Battleship filling the screen.

Yes, it was that scary/imposing! Darth Audi!

Chocolate Peanut Butter ice cream. Five scoops, easy. I could do it again. Hello, cows!

esf

Alright, so I went on a three-week trip to California and when I got back in mid-July I was just too lazy to come back to this site because I knew it would be a lot to handle. Now I'm remembering how rewarding it is to post here. So, I'm back.

What did I miss? :P

'08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet

esf

Agreed, the X5's brakes are extremely grabby. You don't even have to push the pedal until you're very close to the stop--when you take your foot off the gas the car slows more than any other I've driven.

'08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet

esf

:surprise: Stunning pix, what camera are you using now?

Here's one I took of the A3 that I am a bit proud of:



'08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet

tagman

...I'm back.

Welcome back. I was wondering where you were.

What did I miss?

LOL! I'll actually give you a very small rundown of SOME of the stuff. This is NOT complete, so I want no test in the morning.

You have missed hpowder's new VW rabbit, which suddenly replaced BMW as the greatest car ever built. And quite a few very good discussions about the potential (or lack thereof) for Hyundai's new Genesis, LG's new Audi S6!!, some interesting posts from blckislandguy regarding current market values of used luxury cars, some interesting posts regarding hybrid developments as well as electric supercars. And, I'm guessing that m4d_cow will be getting some sort of car in the not-too-distant future. Louiswei is still dreaming about his new Corvette ZR1, and it's understandable when you read the tremendous review here on Inside Line. There's little doubt that circlew really needs to get himself a 135i Coupe, and he needs to just do it already!!! Our good friend Tony should definately go to Spain and pay a visit to our good friend Jose! I think he would like that trip, if he could make it.

Back to the 135i... it turns out Consumer Reports loves the BMW 135i!! and... oh yes, Beemer = BMW motorcycle, while Bimmer = BMW car. Discussions about traffic tickets here and there, and that it is indeed possible to have fun and enjoy spirited and intense driving without having to consistently exceed the speed limit.

Hpowders talked himself out of a speeding ticket at 5:38 in the morning. He was going nearly 100 mph in his cwazy wabbit, trying to catch all the BMWs he could find on the interstate, obviously driving in his sleep, before some unlucky cop pulled him over and got a whiff of his rum cake on his breath, as hpowders was screaming, "I know I can catch those BMWs... I just know it!" No!! It didn't happen like that! Actually he was only going a few miles over, and a young cop had nothing better to do, but he did let him go with a warning.

I mentioned that I am thinking about selling my Porsche 911. In addition to that there have been discussions about laurasdada's quest for an XLR, but he has since come to his senses about that, and instead he is going to get an XK or XKR... just kidding laurasdada... we don't know WHAT you are going to get, do we?... other than a rather LARGE tub of ice cream! Also, laurasdada has continued to prove that his writing talents have gone untapped in this world.

And... sadly, Dewey has bid us a cold farewell, suggesting that he might return only when our Gotham City is in the most desperate of conditions. Strangely, it was a cold goodbye, comprised mostly of his muttering briefly about how his desire for a fuel-efficient non-luxury car self-disqualified him from the forum. Let me say that he didn't sound like himself, and my prayers are truly with him and his family up there in Toronto.

However, we have some new posters floating around here, and, that's cool.

Of course, we've been watching the auto industry go into a tailspin, while VW has become the 3rd largest automaker, replacing FoMoCo. :sick:

Fortunately, no one has brought up politics yet, in spite of the bizarre craziness of these two election campaigns. :confuse:

Anyway, where in California did you visit? I hope you got to see some of our best!

BTW, nice pic of the A3!

TM

m4d_cow

Treats cars as mere appliances. Thats exactly what we need though. I agree w/ Jimbres, as much as I dislike the way they treat vehicles (yes TM I agree w/ you too), their cold hard logic approach is worthy when people actually need infos for long term ownership.

btw Tag, you wrote a very convincing piece on XJ. Though I still doubt the car will ever suit younger drivers, I'll give it a try as it wont hurt anyway. I mean you once mentioned the price of $30k for an 05 CPO, which is very very tempting. Its a price even recent college grads can afford, not to mention (from what I read) cheap maintenance and good customer service. I'm skipping long wheelbase though, dont need the extra space (and cost).

Any ideas or recommendations to make the car look younger?

m4d_cow

My shopping list seem to get bigger instead of smaller.... wonder how did that happen? :P

Thanks to newfound bargains on CPOs I'm now officially at a loss :P

m4d_cow

is already on display at my local dealer. I walked passed the showroom on my way to baskin, and I noticed a maroon TL on display. Man its even uglier in person. The rear end on the other hand, looks much better than I thought. Or maybe its because the color is too dark to show the lines? :P
I overheard some sales guys muttering to each other "how the hell are we gonna sell this... this, thing???" "I dunno dude, but boss will grab our necks if we dont."

The only TL I'll consider now is the great bargains on leftover 08s.

tagman

Any ideas or recommendations to make the car look younger?

A gorgeous young blonde in the passenger seat!

My '05 has the '06 chrome wire mesh grill, as well as the factory 5-star chrome rims. A big improvement. The car really looks great.

You can always get the chrome wire mesh grill installed later for a reasonable cost, but it would be better to find a car with rims that you like already installed on the car, as it wouldn't be worth the money to change them later, IMO.

Some colors will look better, as you will discover. I suggest you stay away from BRG even though it's a classic, it's an OLD classic.

Try to get one that is loaded with options, as you will get those options for pennies on the dollar, and they are all well worth it.

TM

m4d_cow

So dark green out, check. what about indigo? Maybe I should consider lighter colors.....
I'll pass on the chrome though, just not a fan.

A gorgeous young blonde in the passenger seat!

You hit the bullseye again!! :shades: Thats the easy part, unless one prefers brunette that is :P

search4truth

Check out a few dealers . . . the discounting have started on 1-series. One of the bigger local dealers just started offering a lease deal of $429/mo for a 135 Convertible, which is the most in-demand of all 1-series variants. The numbers work out to be about $2000 off MSRP using current BMWFS offers. BMWFS is not subsidizing interest rate on 1 series yet, but the 73% or so residual is probably far higher than realistic resale value at lease end. Good luck with your shopping.

BMW is limiting the number of 1-series supply to the US in the first model year in an attempt to maintain price point. That will not continue to be the case in following model years . . . Euro Delivery will also become available. . . although making a special trip just for such a relatively low-priced car may not be worth the time, effort and mushrooming airline ticket cost.

Compared to the luxury models in the BMW line-up, 1 series will probably hold price up better in an economic down turn. . . after all, the actual variable production cost of a 1 series vs. a 5 or 7 is not all that great (nowhere near doubling) because the parts count are not greatly different . . . That's the big logic behind the phenomenom that inefficient carmakers can only make money selling big/luxury cars. That also means, in an economic down turn, there's more profit margin to cut on a high price luxury car . . . which makes it ironicly a good time to buy a luxury car, at the right nicely discounted price of course :-)

circlew

There was a long list of things but blockislandguy did a review of the best luxo's for 45 k and the Jag, Audi and BMW' you could get for that price or under.

What do you think? The auto market will slip further into the red this month and gas prices turned up again due to Gustav.

Regards,
OW

circlew

I am tuned into the A8 now! The discount is amazing and if you don't like it then I don't know what!

Let's see 135i or A8....

Regards,
OW

circlew

Thanks for the insightful post. I've got until december 31st to shop and all of you on this board help tremendously. I am already having fun shopping!

Interestingly, BMWUSA does not even remotely push the 1-series. Instead, it's the X-6 that first pops up!

Regards,
OW

jimbres

The appliance point of view will win, long term, with the CR crowd.

I wouldn't waste my time trying to defend some of CR's picks, but lately I've been thinking that we might be better off in some respects if we approached cars as appliances - at least when we're pondering the financial side of car ownership.

Consider the bonehead (we all know at least one) chained to a ton of negative equity because he trades every other year out of boredom. His excuse is "I'm a car nut", & we chuckle sympathetically because cars are special & it's OK to let them drive a guy into debt. But if we look at them as appliances, sort of, then we see that our friend's behavior is clearly idiotic. How much sense does it make to buy a new microwave oven before you've paid off the old one, which, by the way, still works just fine?

I also suspect that the appliance POV would cool off some heated arguments. Earlier this year, a frequent poster to this forum left in a rage - you could almost see the vein in his forehead twitching - when someone suggested that his favorite car might not be considered a classic 20 years from now. You would have thought that someone had insulted his wife or his favorite brand of beer. Would he have foamed at the mouth like that if the topic of conversation had been front-loaders?

So, yeah, I'm beginning to think of cars as appliances that you wear. Maybe that's because I'm getting cheap as I age, or maybe it's because of all the blender drinks that I've tossed back this summer.

lexusguy

I'm skipping long wheelbase though, dont need the extra space (and cost). Any ideas or recommendations to make the car look younger?

The sportiest, youngest looking and best driving XJ is the XJR, and that's what I would suggest taking a look at if you want the SWB. I happen to like BRG, but the car also looks brilliant in black and silver. It's the wheels that make or break the design, and the 20" Sepangs on the '05 XJRs are the best.

lexusguy

Here's one I took of the A3 that I am a bit proud of:

Very nice work! Do you remember how you set that shot up? I'm curious. Welcome back, by the way.

lexusguy

So, yeah, I'm beginning to think of cars as appliances that you wear. Maybe that's because I'm getting cheap as I age, or maybe it's because of all the blender drinks that I've tossed back this summer.

I still have an online subscription to CR, but I don't use it very much. I agree with them on some things (the M is great, the GS is lousy) and disagree with them on others (the LS460 is the greatest luxury car of all time). CR's reliability ratings are deeply flawed, but unfortunately theirs is still the best system out there. JDpower is all but useless, when things like "excessive window fogging" are considered serious problems.

I just don't see the car as an appliance. There are appliance-like cars absolutely, but when we're pulled towards a certain choice because of the looks, or the sound of the engine, or the smile we get from driving it, that's just not an appliance sort of feeling.

tagman

We don't want to offer conflicting recommendations, so IF short wheelbase, then I agree, although the fuel economy of the XJ's STD. 300 hp engine is truly amazing, and will still reward the owner with a great amount of torque and spirited performance. Whether or not you like BRG, we both know that green cars are often more difficult to resell, and in this case, the OP doesn't want anything that might make the car look "old".

My suggestion, therefore, is to drive both the XJR and the XJ, and see if that XJR's extra power (which is considerable) is worth the real-life sacrifice of the truly stellar gas mileage afforded by the XJ's standard engine.

TM

tagman

I completely agree LG...

No cars as appliances here, thank you very much. I shudder at the idea.

TM

carnaught

Consider the bonehead (we all know at least one) chained to a ton of negative equity because he trades every other year out of boredom. His excuse is "I'm a car nut", & we chuckle sympathetically because cars are special & it's OK to let them drive a guy into debt. But if we look at them as appliances, sort of, then we see that our friend's behavior is clearly idiotic

Are YOU talkin' to ME?

(By the way this "bonehead" leases for 24 months due to my "habit", even though I can afford to buy. Geeez.....)

blckislandguy

I'm also beginning to think of cars as appliances that wear for two reasons. Like you as I age I'm getting cheap. I weigh the opportunity costs of what else I could do with my money.

Moreover, I used to think that as I approached my mid-60's I'd buy One Last Luxo Car to drive off into the sunset. Regrettably, the current high end cars are loaded with electronics and resulting problems. The idea of splurging on a 80K + new high end car and then drving it for the next 10-12 years (say into one's mid 70's) is out-moded and foolish. As I hit 70, I'd have an aging luxo car without a hint of warranty. I feel this way even though I could run the 80K across my firm's books and wind up with a net cost of, say, only 70% of 80K.

So, given this what do I like? New pickups with leather, used high end cars for under 45K, Volvo AWD wagons that I'll be able to get into even when 75, Porsche Cayennes with the V6 for under 50K, etc. etc.

YMMV

theanimal

The two full-size lux cars I like the most are the A8, and the Maserati QP. The previous gen A8 was incredibly bland, but Audi really got this one right. The design seems to be aging much better than the prev. gen S-class, and I think it looks better than the new 7.

I agree on the Maserati QP, but those even used are still out of my price range. Also, as scary as maintenance costs are for the A8, I can't imaging what they are like for the Maserati. That is a sweet car though, hardly ever see one of them on the road.

theanimal

The sportiest, youngest looking and best driving XJ is the XJR, and that's what I would suggest taking a look at if you want the SWB. I happen to like BRG, but the car also looks brilliant in black and silver. It's the wheels that make or break the design, and the 20" Sepangs on the '05 XJRs are the best.

You are right that the wheels can make or break a car. When I was shopping for the A8, one option that I would not drop was the 19" Turbine wheels. The standard 17 or 18" wheels just do not do the car justice and make it look cheap in comparison. Those 20"s on the XJR are very, very sweet looking. Perhaps I will consider a Jag for next purchase, 8 or so years from now after I hopefully drive the A8 into the ground.

jimbres

I just don't see the car as an appliance. There are appliance-like cars absolutely, but when we're pulled towards a certain choice because of the looks, or the sound of the engine, or the smile we get from driving it, that's just not an appliance sort of feeling.

Truth be told, LG, I'm not sure how far I want to push this appliance perspective. My favorite possession is a BMW 330i, equipped, as it should be, with the sport package & a stick, that has given me great pleasure. I've asked my wife to bury me in it - making it clear to her that she should wait until I'm dead before going ahead with this - & she's agreed to honor my wishes, as long as she can bring a date to the funeral.

I'll admit that it's hard to think of my car as an appliance, But if I can't toss out the odd outrageous idea here, where can I do it?

Here's another notion that I've been kicking around: no one who buys a 3-series BMW equipped with an automatic should be allowed to vote or own property. Implementing this would probably require a Constitutional amendment. I'm willing to tackle this if you folks will pay for the booze that I'll need for research & lobbying. I accept PayPal.

carnaught

I guess I rather be ignored. (Back to hibernation mode here.)

Dewey, I'm joining you buddy.

jimbres

Funny you should raise this question. I'd like to keep my BMW for another couple of years, by which time it will be close to its 10th birthday. By then, I'll be ready for an age-appropriate luxury cruiser. I'd like to see what Infiniti has to offer in, say, late 2010.

Having owned a bunch of cars way past warranty expiration, I don't worry too much about repair costs. Experience has taught me that new car depreciation usually costs more than fixing an older car that's done most of its depreciating.

jlbl

Nice brief, TM . Maybe Esf should also know Audi is gaining even more appraisal in LuxLounge by the day. (Notably, most A5 and other muscle Audi I see over here are painted in white, red or blue color.)

BTW, which is the color of your Porsche, TM? Is yours that yellow one you posted a couple of days ago?

Regards,
Jose
PS: Having just came back home from a multi-stage plane trip, I am feeling too lazy to comment on other post/posters; anyhow, I've to say I've found very good looking that XJ in a LG post!

laurasdada

A Rose by any Other Name?

Only viewed 100-81 at this point.

So, if anyone has owned any of the cars on this list, your thoughts?

tagman

What's THAT about?
TM

tagman

Yes, my 911 is Speed Yellow.

Add'l XJ pics previous page or two.

Welcome back... get some rest!

TM

jlbl

I haven't owned all of them, but I have extensively driven a R(enault)4, two 2CV, one Beetle and one 1-Series hatched. Quite a good record of ugly cars, then.

1-Series hatched (118d) was getting on me (and my wife) like an smart ugly puppy.

The Beetle was a mule and not fun to drive at all.

A couple of 2CV were funny; they had the beauty of their age. I mean mine was at lest their third owner-hand, who knows. Each of them were bought to spend the summer together. One was in so bad condition that the front seats had to be replaced by small cattail seats. Yet both ride from Paris to Spain (times were more permissive than presently).

I learned to have a great respect for the R4. Not a luxury :P car but she was strong, capable and simple. Easy to repair. Much better than the 2CV and the Beetle.

Regards,
Jose

jimbres

Why are you leaving? You aren't, I hope, taking this stuff seriously. Or are you?

carnaught

Your comment:

"Consider the bonehead (we all know at least one) chained to a ton of negative equity because he trades every other year out of boredom. His excuse is "I'm a car nut", & we chuckle sympathetically because cars are special & it's OK to let them drive a guy into debt. But if we look at them as appliances, sort of, then we see that our friend's behavior is clearly idiotic...."


seemed to describe me(LOL) and appeared personal.

lexusguy

Porsche Cayennes with the V6 for under 50K

Uh... why?? What's the point of a Cayenne that can't even go fast, which is the ONE thing that it does reasonably well?

jimbres

My friend, I've been online for nearly 20 years - since the days of 1200-baud modems & proprietary services like CompuServe & GEnie - before the Web existed - & I learned early on not to take anything that I see or read online personally. (BTW, does anyone else recall taking great pains to hide $200 worth of CIS charges on the credit card statement from the spouse? You'll get extra credit if you remember TapCIS or OzCIS.)

I'm here to be entertained. It's too early to start drinking & there's nothing good on TV. What I have to say is worth exactly what you're paying for it. If anyone actually acted on my remarks, I'd almost certainly drop dead from the shock of it. If you're satisfied with your approach to acquiring cars, you should certainly stick with it.

I'm sorry if I said anything offensive. That wasn't my intent.

anthonyp

TIVO for you

carnaught

Thanks. Glad we don't discuss politics though..........

tagman

Darn, Jim...You mean all that talk about wasteful spending on cars, by a car nut wasn't about me? :P

TM

pat

(BTW, does anyone else recall taking great pains to hide $200 worth of CIS charges on the credit card statement from the spouse? You'll get extra credit if you remember TapCIS or OzCIS.)

::raises hand sheepishly::

I'll take the extra credit, too. TapCIS is what kept me out of bankruptcy!!

:shades:

rockshocka1

it's never too early to start drinking on a holiday weekend. I remember 14.4 modem being state-o-the art for dial-up, does that count?
Anyway, hitting the A4 launch party Friday on the way to Atlanta for UFC88. Anybody looking for info on this car? can take pics if need to...