Luxury Lounge

search4truth

Cars are rapidly depreciating items . . . so they are expenses, not assets, in 5years in tax terms. Think of money spent on cars as expenses, for transportation and entertainment . . . as rent paid to mfr, bank/mfr finacing arm, tax agencies, and repair shops. There was a time, lasted till a few months ago, that you could have leased a 323i, 325i and 328i in 6-9 years, updating every 2-3 years, and still coming out ahead of owning a fully loaded Honda Accord, strictly on monetary terms. Yes, the deals were that good, even if you treat someone else' thoroughbred strictly as an piecef appliance and shopping for the cheapest real cost alone..

search4truth

The majority of 3's sold in the US are automatics. In fact, the majority of M3 convertibles sold in the US were automatics . . . go figure. BMW' corporate marketting magic is in offering something that conjures up the aspiration of sportscars but is really a small family sedan that most people can live with . . . something that conjures up the aspiration of expensive cars but is/was really inexpensive so that most people can afford.

tagman

There was a time, lasted till a few months ago, that you could have leased a 323i, 325i and 328i in 6-9 years, updating every 2-3 years, and still coming out ahead of owning a fully loaded Honda Accord, strictly on monetary terms. Yes, the deals were that good, even if you treat someone else' thoroughbred strictly as an piecef appliance and shopping for the cheapest real cost alone..

No. No. No.

When treated like an appliance, the transportation is purchased and kept for the longer haul. At the end of all those years, the montly payments for the nicer cars would total more than the purchase price of the appliance car, and additionally, there would be no equity from leasing and some remaining equity from purchasing.

We've debated and proved this on this forum in the past. The long-term appliance approach practically always wins from a monetary perspective. Short term changes the equation, and depends upon initial and residual values and lease terms and durations, as well as interest rates, and whether or not the purchase is financed or bought outright. But again, leasing is typically the most expensive way to acquire a vehicle. As this link points out, acquiring a good used car can offer even further advantages over leasing even more so than purchasing a new car.

link title

TM

esf

Wow, I can always count on you, can't I? Totally in-depth. Didn't it expect it to be so thorough! Thanks!

I actually knew LG had ordered an S6, I just wasn't here when he took delivery. That particular beast is still on my list as well, and I do have quite a lot of random car thoughts that occurred to me this summer...

The 135i is amazing. If I could come up with an excuse to get one it would already be in my garage. However, it just doesn't make sense to me. The vert is too small to be used as a true four-seater on a daily basis, too RWD to be used in the winter, and I just wouldn't have any use for the coupe.

I gathered that hpowders had gotten a Dub from reading the last few pages of LL. Interesting choice. I hope he knows that the Rabbit actually gets worse fuel economy than the GTI :P I do like your version of the speeding ticket story

Selling the Porsche? That's how good the little Bimmer is? (BTW, I knew that one, too--forgot where, but not too long ago somebody on a different site was corrected for saying "Beemer.") I'm jealous that you even have a Porsche to sell.

Dada, I'm glad you're not getting an XLR. By all accounts it's mediocre at best. Do you just like the look?

I'm sorry about dewey. I know he was threatening before. Too bad it actually happened--great contributor to this thread.

I also heard about the VW-vs.-Ford thing. Until Ford brings its European lineup here, I won't be feeling anything for it, so I say go VW.

I was in LA seeing my niece and nephew (who had a baby after we left), and then we went to SF, San Diego and even a short stop at the Grand Canyon. It was a fantastic trip. Unfortunately, the memory card with my best pictures on it was missing when I got home :sick:

'08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet

esf

I have noticed that a very cool, very classy color for the XJ is a sort of ice blue. I saw one with your five-spoke wheels and wire mesh grille, and just could not stop staring. Beautiful. I believe this was the color:



Obviously, it looks far better with all the necessary accessories. Not to mention, the '07 update made all the difference. They took away the little strips on the side, made the mesh grille standard and changed the rims. I actually like the '08- too.

'08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet

esf

What's the discount on the A8? I'm considering an '09 myself. Even if the new one is better, I could rest easy knowing I have a true masterpiece. That car is a harmony of subtlety, elegance, luxury, performance, agility, practicality and attention to detail. To top that all off you can have metal tweeters that pop out of the dashboard

I just cannot think of a reason to get any other HELC over it. S-Class? A bit too showy for my taste, not to mention it can't fit in my garage. 7er? Older than the A8, and it shows. Great discounts but not worth it. XJ? Lovely but I see no reason to get it over the Audi. LS? Now that it comes with AWD it's a compelling option but I mulled it over and realized it would give me a headache to drive a car that boring every day.

'08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet

esf

I parked the A3 in the driveway, turned the lights on, set my camera on the ground and took a picture

Really, that's all I did.

'08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet

esf

No cars as appliances here, thank you very much. I shudder at the idea.

This.

The difference between the auto industry and everything else is that cars have evolved beyond appliances. There is so much variety, and so much enjoyment that can be had from driving one... So much personalization that can be done... So invested that a person can become in their car, both financially and emotionally. It would just be incorrect to look at it that way.

'08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet

esf

That's funny, I saw it at the Audi Forum in NYC already...







'08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet

esf

Gorgeous. Truly stunning. Wow. Wow.







'08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet

tagman

Thanks for those great pics.

What a beautiful deep shade of metallic blue! I usually shy away from thinking I'd get a car in that color, but not after seeing your pics.

My Lord, that car is simply magnificent!

TM

2001gs430

The majority of 3's sold in the US are automatics.
Not once the BMW salesman offered me a test drive in a manual 328i/335i. I think it's assumed that customers want the slush box unless requested otherwise.

something that conjures up the aspiration of expensive cars but is/was really inexpensive so that most people can afford
You are bang on with this. Beside having a good brand, there is nothing sporty/luxury about a vanilla 3 series.

2001gs430

Nice pictures. Do you have one with the LEDs on? those looks very menacing when viewed in the rearview mirror.

jimbres

Not once the BMW salesman offered me a test drive in a manual 328i/335i. I think it's assumed that customers want the slush box unless requested otherwise.

No argument. To get a 330i with stick, I had to place a factory order. My sales rep couldn't turn up a single stick 4-door 3-series anywhere in the northeastern U.S.

circlew

So, 90% of BMW's are slush. It ain't that bad because if you know how to use them correctly, they are fantastic. Perhaps less control but extremely satisfying if you open your mind!

Regards,
OW

jimbres

A 3-series with only 2 pedals on the floor is like a beautiful woman who, when she smiles, displays a mouthful of really bad teeth. It's a sad sight.

I've driven automatic 3-series loaners. They're not nearly as much fun.

Although I'm nearly 60, my knees are still good. Eventually, though, they'll go & I'll have to give up the stick. When that happens, I'll probably buy an Infiniti M or G. I just can't stomach the idea of an automatic 3.

laurasdada

Hello, ESF:

The XLR was (is?) an irrational desire. I always seem to have one, one summer I lusted after a Saab Sonnet!. I do like the style from certain angles (mostly profile. It looks fairly wide and poorly proportioned with the top up from the rear and the front end is a snooze), and hard top convertibles have always fascinated me. But, as mentioned, I think that I am moving on. With the G37 and IS HT verts on the horizon, I shall wait... Not to mention the possibility of an '08 XK in '09.

Search4truth (are you a fellow Massachusetts resident? Possibly f.k.a. Bright...?): Have you told us about your rides yet? Any rational/irrational automotive desires? It may just be me, but I'm kinda hoping that the lease/buy discussion fades away quickly, again...

Dewey should return. I don't believe that owning (leasing!) a lux vehicle is a prerequisite for having a passion for cars and a desire to discuss them here.

I think the poet put it best regarding this forum: "Ain't lookin' for nothin' but a good time
And it don't get better than this."

esf

I don't, because it was locked inside the Audi Forum and I didn't ask them to turn it on. However I do have one of an S5 with its LEDs on:



This was taken at the '08 Chicago auto show with my old camera, which IMO you can tell just by looking at it.

'08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet

esf

The XLR was (is?) an irrational desire.

Ah, we all get those, don't we? Especially here :sick:

With the G37 and IS HT verts on the horizon, I shall wait...

These sound like better choices. I prefer the G37 because it has such a sexy exhaust note. However, an XK would be even better if you don't need a rear seat. I know how long you've wanted one.

I agree about Dewey. You don't need to have a luxury car to be here. This is just discussion.

'08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet

tagman

I agree about Dewey. You don't need to have a luxury car to be here. This is just discussion.

Exactly what I expresssed to him when he made his post.! There are no prerequisites of that sort. His contributions were valuable, and whatever car(s) he might own makes no difference to the merits of his opinions.

BTW, enjoying your posts... looks like you have dived right in.

TM

pat

and it seems like a really good time to remind everyone that feeding the trolls is not a wise thing to do.

Thank you for your future cooperation.

laurasdada

Awww, gee Pat. And I can't decide if I should lease or buy one of the pictures ESF posted...

Keep 'em coming, esf. I depreciate, I mean, appreciate it!

laurasdada

This month's C & D outlines some fab ways to spend $25k. One way: Used Acura NSX! I feel a new irrational desire coming on, but I want a targa top...!

Still, not as lovely as the XK. Nor "4" seats. There's that touch of rationality that keeps me from yet turning irrational into reality.

Every time I take my TL for service, I request the NSX loaner. Amazingly, every time I'm ready for the loaner, the NSX had just gone out! Quite a coinky-dinky, don't ya thinky?

tagman

NSX is one car I sometimes kick myself for never buying. Maybe you are on to something here. A used one for $25K? I expected it would be a higher price than that.

Hmmmm.

TM

laurasdada

The $25k price tag were for the first few model years, '91-'94 I believe. Price doubles+ for latter model years, new engine, targa top, fixed headlights...

The mag is in my car at the moment, but also included were used M3, Vette and new GTI and Miata among others.

esf

BTW, enjoying your posts... looks like you have dived right in.



It seems like I'm the only very spastic poster here. I'll come once, maybe twice per day, and reply to every one that strikes me. I always end up with about a half-dozen in a row. It's odd, isn't it?

'08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet

esf

LMAO!



'08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet

esf

You could probably get a later model for $40K-60K. It's an attractive purchase for sure. However, I am currently enamored with the new 911's combination of performance and fuel efficiency. It just keeps getting better, doesn't it?

'08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet

tagman

It just keeps getting better, doesn't it?

It does...

For the '09 911, direct injection is an improvement, as are the improved NAV/Bluetooth features, but when it comes down to it, the only difference that really matters for '09 is the PDK tranny. So... for anyone with a previous manual tranny 997, there's no real significant reason to make any change to the '09, IMO.

But for someone getting their first Porsche 911, the '09 is the best ever.

TM

lexusguy

the only difference that really matters for '09 is the PDK tranny.

It's wonderful that Porsche finally dumped their lousy tiptronic for a transmission worthy of the 911, but why, why, WHY did they keep the cheesy shift buttons on the steering wheel? So previous owners wouldn't have to "adjust" to paddles? What kind of excuse is that? Porsche blew it on that one...

tagman

WHY did they keep the cheesy shift buttons on the steering wheel?

It's to teach those slush box types a harsh lesson for not driving a Porsche the proper way... with a stick!

I agree, though, paddles would be better... most definately.

TM

m4d_cow

"Some posts have been deleted"

Huh? When?

Anyways, being a new poster here I might have missed something, but aren't we getting a bit too extreme here? Why does every poster should have the passion for car approach? If anyone wish to think of their cars as appliances, so be it. It's not like they're gonna hurt us or anything. I myself dont take that appliance approach, just not me. But, and I've said this before about CR, the cold hard logic people here can help when considering a car, when we're emotionally attached leaving us out of our usual reasonable selves, the appliance people will knock your head back to your senses. For someone like me, who's yet to have the luxury to own a few cars at once, this 2 sides approach is necessary

Example, when someone like me, wish to buy an "X" brand, found its a gem to drive, fast, sharp handler. But then the appliances approach crept in, the car turned out fragile, need frequent replacement on parts and cost about $400 for every scheduled maintenance, required every 7k miles. Will that stop me from buying it? Maybe or maybe not, but it's definitely a consideration. On the other hand, an "appliance" guy think of getting an "Y" brand, very cheap to own, but then the "car nuts" told him the brakes are mushy, takes a tank-like 200ft to stop from 60 mph, poor performance. That can turn into their consideration too.

Point is: having players on different sides is useful for both sides of the field you know? Chill, guys, I believe noone's trying to get personal or anything like that.

Btw, from what I see NOONE IN THIS FORUM IS THAT EXTREME. Otherwise everybody here will either:
A) Start selling their homes, maybe a kidney (or perhaps their kids???) to get their hands on Ferraris, Veyrons, ZR1s, etc, you name it :P or...
Forget their dream cars and head straight to the nearest Toyota-Honda or Scion dealers looking for the most economical car they have.

Just my 2 cents...

m4d_cow

Lets move on, shall we? :shades:

Unusual comparison.
My sister and her friends somehow came up with this car-to-people comparo. Pretty funny.
"Think of these cars as, well, hollywood stars .
Infiniti is an athlete, think Kobe Bryant. Not graceful, nor classy, but nevertheless a true performer.
Lexus is best compared to Justin Timberlake, sexy though not so sporty, and older women love him :P
Acura is like Ashton Kutcher. Rarely considered a big hit, but somehow he always finds a way to make us love him.
MB is Richard Gere or Denzel, nowhere sporty looking, but classy and aging nicely.
BMW is a young rock star, David Cook perhaps (who?). So cool, sporty, manly and active looking.
Audi is definitely Brad Pitt. All masculine, full of sensual look, and balanced classy-sporty look.
Jaguar is George Clooney. Aging, but doing so gracefully and still plenty sexy."

I asked "How about American cars?", and she said:
"Err, that Hummer came to mind, that's so Arnold the Terminator. Big and buffed up, all testosterone and zero sexiness.
The only other I can think of is Cadillac, K-Fed (WHO???) or Tom Cruise. Looks good but getting old and trying too hard to be young and hip."

What do you guys think?

m4d_cow

Wow, hey, that's exactly the blue I've been looking for. I like unique shades of blue. So far only BMW came close with Topaz Blue, or is it Monaco blue... and Audi A4 with denim blue. But now Audi come up with this. Great pics, esf.

Hope the blue's offered in other Audis, A5 perhaps?

Oh and rockshocka1, more A4 pics will be very much welcomed and appreciated.

rockshocka1

m4d_cow,

That's the plan, as long as Hanna doesn't throw a wrench into the works Friday...

rockshocka1

I know I'm a rube, but the preview shows everything perfect, then the real deal is all messed up. Help!

pat

Um yeah.

I deleted all of those lovely but waaaay too wide pics. If you post them on your CarSpace page, you can use the automatically generated text to post them here. They'll be resized correctly that way.

Don't worry about it, it happens!

rockshocka1

that's what I did though. put them in an album & copy pasted the link. on the desktop the A4 pics came out perfectly, but the S5 went wide 4 some reason...?

pat

All of them were too wide, not just the S5 and they were all the same width too wide, even though the pic itself didn't take up the whole space for the A4s (if that makes any sense). Maybe the best thing is to just post the link then.

But I don't know why you can't use the CarSpace code under each picture. I've never seen that not work before. :confuse:

laurasdada

I think they done killed our Stories from the Sales Frontlines!

A flurry of stupid posts, not surprised. A bit disappointed...

Maybe, when cooler heads prevail, like Brigadoon it too shall return.

esf

That is the only annoying thing. I love the paddles in my A3.

If I got a 911 I might just be tempted to go for the PDK. Blasphemy, I know, and it is quite a lot of money ($4K!), but I just don't know if I could work with a manual in my commute. It would really be a pain. I'll definitely test drive both (when it reaches dealers), and if I like the manual better I'll save a buck and go for an '08 997 instead.

The other improvement of the newer model is the fuel efficiency. 19/28MPG, on a C4 with PDK, looks very impressive to me. Keep in mind that I wouldn't sell the S4 and the Porsche would be a coupe, strictly AWD, that I could drive in winter.

'08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet

esf

Of course we're not too extreme. That's a pretty simplistic view and while we have to view cars as appliances part of the time, we always lean heavily towards the fun of it. We are car enthusiasts, after all. Someone who regards his car as he regards a washing machine does not have the privilege to say the same!

BTW, I like your posts. You're a great contributor to the forum.

'08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet

laurasdada

Really, how many folks spend half a day Zaino-ing their fridge! But, I suppose you could...

esf

I believe the blue is available on just about every model. It's standard-issue deep metallic blue.

If you really want a unique shade of blue, look no further...



Unfortunately, the Sprint Blue adorning my car is only available on S/RS models, unless you want to pay extra to have it. It really is gorgeous, and this picture doesn't quite capture that. Not my best work.

'08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet

tagman

The only drawback to the manual in the Porsche 911 is that the clutch is relatively stiff, and while that's normally no problem, it sure is a royal pain when stuck in a relentless stop and go scenario of traffic. It can truly give your left leg a painful workout. If you really plan on using it as a DD in heavy stop-and-go commute traffic, the PDK would be a blessing, IMO. Otherwise, the manual is the way the car should be driven.

TM

circlew

What's up with that? Oh well, it's up to the Dark Knight now! The Jokers always win!

Regards,
OW

tagman

That Sprint Blue reminds me of the M3 color, Laguna Seca Blue... do you remember it?

TM

laurasdada

I'll have to guess it was due to a new poster (troll? Possibly deskman?) who just threw malatov cocktails at Mac. Mac responded as we know he can, including some graphic pix of himself in the hospital.

Too bad, it was a fun forum. Hopefully, folks get scolded and it comes back?

pat

Let's not get into other discussions and other members here, it's not really the place.

KarenS, "Lost? Ask a Host for Help!" #2316, 3 Sep 2008 9:58 am.

circlew

In what looks like another double digit percentage drop in YtoY sales in August, GM extends discounts. The ZR-1 included!

The employee pricing program now includes some 2009 models as well as almost every 2008 model. Our favorite is the 2008 Corvette Z06, which after almost $10,000 in discounts becomes even more of a raging performance bargain than it was before.

Lou, are you ready? This is tempting as h...!

Regards,
OW