Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to learn more!
Options
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
I'd also second circlew's suggestion that she drive sans friends. Studies have shown that the accident rate for newly-licensed teens is higher when the other occupants are also teens than it is when the driver is alone or is accompanied by adults.
Finally, I'd suggest that you ban all cell phone use - whether or not hands-free - in her car. A new driver simply doesn't have the mental bandwidth to carry on a phone conversation while dealing with all of the stuff that can happen on the road.
Yep, I've had it for a little while. Still breaking the engine in, so unfortunately I haven't been able to give it a proper workout yet. In due time Mine looks just like this one.
Pontiac G8 GT
Acura TSX
e46 M3 & IS F (very brief review, not in the same format)
As you can see, I do have my own blog.
I really only write reviews like these for cars that I have a genuine interest in since I don't get paid for it... The next one coming up should be the new 2009 Acura TL.
Really?
How many other car companies have grown in our market faster? Do you realize that Hyundai is now the fifth largest auto manufacturer in the world? Do you have any idea how this happened? Coincidence? Luck?
And, you say they know nothing about consumers... Wow... are you aware of how many consumers Hyundai had to win over to achieve their world ranking?
Unlike some manufacturers that are falling apart, Hyundai is making strides.
Hyundai's Superbowl "Think about it" and "Genesis" commercials had amongst the highest "believability" ratings from consumers.
Here's a sampling, in case you forgot:
Genesis Ad 1
Genesis Ad 2
"Think about it" collection of ads
Sorry, powders (powers...LOL), but Hyundai is a company that more and more consumers will discover over time... in much the same way you discovered your Rabbit (it is possible to put image and prestige aside, and get a really good car). So... any suggestion that that they don't know anything about consumers is just simply way off the mark... in fact, it's completely off the target.
TM
There are faster cars, more luxurious cars and more exotic cars... but I wonder if the overall dynamics in the handling and feel of a BMW will ever be beat by a vehicle in a comparable price range.
So, you hate that 550i, eh?
Seriously, what a great feeling it is to find a car that satisfies so well.
Hey, David, don't be a stranger around here!!
TM
link title
Rules of engagement? I like some of the ideas posted here, especially no boys in the car!! We'll figure it out... but safety is definately the top priority. 33% of teens WILL get into an accident!! Yikes!! And according to one study, black cars have a 44% higher probability of getting into an accident than lighter colored cars. So, most likely no black car for her first car.
As far as what car I'll get her?... it's way too early to know yet. Certainly an A4, like you have mentioned, would be great car. Several candidates she seems interested in are Honda Civic Hybrid, Honda Civic Coupe, BMW 128i Coupe, VW Jetta. I told her we will go to an auto show this winter and look at everything. It should be exciting for her... like a kid in a candy store!
Well... you are the trailblazer here. We can tap into your experiences with your daughter's driving and learn from them. I'm good with that.
TM
I know that I, for one, would relish in reading all about the car from your hands-on ownership perspective.
hint... hint...
TM
I'm still waiting for your review of the latest M3. (When you test it, however, you probably should NOT bring your checkbook, or you might end up driving one home! And wouldn't that be just horrible?... LOL)
TM
I probably won't do that for a while since I don't have a "genuine interest" in that car.
Nah, jokes aside, I probably won't do it since that car is somewhat out of my league and I have come to realize that I really don't need a M/AMG/F as my daily driver. I am probably better off save up for a condo/townhouse and later on a weekend fun car like a Z06.
Right now I am totally satisfied with cars like the IS350, G35 and 335i.
A 2009 TL review is coming though, you can bet on it.
So how come Toyota sells certain cars in Japan as Toyotas and in the USA as Lexi even though the vehicles are pretty much the same?
Because the Japanese shrewdly knew in advance whom they were dealing with-status-conscious, fickle Americans. Do you really think the Lexus LS would have done half as well with the country-club set as a $60-$70k Toyota?
IMO, Hyundai just made a big mistake with the Genesis. Hyundai is becoming a bit too impatient, aiming for the luxury market. You can't just put some wood in a MB look-alike and achieve instant status. Nobody I know cares a whit about spending more for a MB or Lexus over a Genesis. I wouldn't either. When one enters the luxury realm, high price is expected! Folks who are shopping for luxury vehicles are not looking for fire sales. At the very least, they shop Lexus, MB and BMW and go on up from there as you did with the 911 and as my son-in-law just did with his Ferrari. No Hyundai in his future.... you can take that one to the bank!
I still maintain, Hyundai should have copied Toyota's great business model in establishing a separate luxury division and patiently, gradually build up the respect for the new luxury brand. What's their hurry? People are banging down the doors for luxury gas-guzzlers?
PS-Wouldn't an "Hpowers" smell as sweet? The best excuse so far goes to Tony's "out of practice"! LOL!!
PS' The Ra___it was supposed to be an interim fill-in. The wife would learn to drive. I pass it on to her. I move on to something else. It is not turning out that way, however. So I will keep it for 2-3 years, then trade it in for a GTI or Scirocco coupe or who knows? I have been known to occasionally change my mind.
You think I'm alone? By the end of 2009, you can call me all wet if they do not meet their sales targets.
Regards,
OW
They definitely need to work on their sales training. The first thing out of the guy's mouth is that they aren't negotiating on the price. Hmm... Forty thousand for a V6 Genesis or $38K - $39K for a V8 300C? Or even less for a G8 GT. They might want to rethink the pricing structure just a bit. Sadly, the salesman was doing the typical low-end-car sales tactic of treating a new/special model car like it's gold. He didn't even really want to let me get in it. One happened to be unlocked and I hopped in to get the tactile feel. As soon as I got out, he locked the thing!
Then to add injury to the insult, he asks me if I'm driving a 328i!! A 328?!?!?!? He picked the cheapest BMW he could think of! :mad: (I drive a 550i Sport.) Hyundai's sales staff will be the biggest stumbling block to the success of the Genesis. The next hurdle is either go all leather (and real wood) or drop the price by at least $5K. I still have high hopes for it, though. Maybe next year or the year after, they'll come out with an overpriced genuine leather/wood package.
I mean for that kind of cash, one can drive a Lexus ES fully loaded with ML stereo, nav. and gorgeous wood.
Regards,
OW
BMW should never have engaged themselves in 5 Series, 7 Series or SUVs.
The one thing BMW learned to do better than anybody for the price, is build perfectly balanced, small driving machines that many of us never would have had a chance to drive without spending a fortune.
BMW should close all the other stuff down; get back to what they do best: small vehicles. Enough with the run flats already!!
Take it from one who knows: I had two 3 Series and a 545i. Loved the 3's. Sooo much fun! Disappointed in the driving dynamics of the 545i. Too heavy!
My current 3000 lb. VW would absolutely run rings around any BMW 5 Series. Of course, the 550i would blow me away at the stoplight. No contest!
I mean for that kind of cash, one can drive a Lexus ES fully loaded with ML stereo, nav. and gorgeous wood.
And, you'd still have an entry-level lowly ES. Instead, one could have a top-of-the-line Genesis. Hehe.
Genesis V6 base price = $32,250.
Genesis V8 base price = $37,250
TM
Oh, baloney. Let's just pull a few of your posts out of the archives, and read your descriptions of your ex-545i. Just glancing at some of them, anyone would think it was the best car ever manufactured. You had nothing but high-end praise for the car and its handling.
Now, you are saying a Rabbit has made you see the light?
I forgive you for these absurdities, knowing darned well that you must be intoxicated from an over-indulgence in your wife's rum cake.
TM
2008 American Customer Satisfaction Index
Rank Make 2008 2007
1 Lexus 87 87
1 BMW 87 86
2 Toyota 86 84
2 Honda 86 84
3 Buick 85 86
3 Cadillac 85 86
3 Saturn 85 81
4 Lincoln-Mercury 83 86
4 Hyundai 83 83
4 GMC 83 82
5 Mercedes-Benz 82 83
5 Nissan 82 80
6 Volkswagen 81 80
7 Pontiac 80 80
7 Ford 80 80
7 Chrysler 80 79
7 Mazda 80 78
7 Kia 80 78
8 Chevrolet 79 82
9 Dodge 78 80
10 Jeep 76 75
Industry average 82 82
UoM NQRC Customer Satisfaction Survey
Regards,
OW
All just a bunch of lucky idiotic losers who don't have a clue what they are doing, and know nothing about consumers.
TM
I confess I am one!
Regards,
OW
Whoa! Whoa! :surprise: Put the guns back in the holsters, dude! Show me where I said "lowly" about the 328i? :confuse: Sheesh! Did I tear a nerve or something?
Power upgrades include a 20-hp upgrade for the 2.0 liter TDI for a total of 190-hp; the 2.0 TFSI engine gets an increase to 240-hp from 211. The 3.0 liter TDI gets an increase of 70-hp to 310-hp.
Performance has also been enhanced by an ABT’s new brake system featuring 380mm brake disks.
link title
I kind of like this look. It was VERY disappointing that the final production VW Tiguan was so terribly diluted from the original concept. So, this Q5 kind of makes up for that.
TM
On another point, Howard, you made the honorable sacrifice buying the diamond, therefor too much RumCake as I always remember you absolutely loved your INCOMPRABLE BMW, although I have never cared for the rear end...That problem was eliminated for me when my wife got the stationwagon, which is a sports wagon... I`l get a little paractice in Hpowders Hpowders.....Your Friend Tony
I have always liked my of rum cake slices large and my vehicles small.
The 545i handled like an agile but heavy vehicle. You couldn't take turns with it like you can a 3 Series, 1 Series or Ra____it. What it did have was a lot of smooth, effortless power from a fantastic engine and amazing balance for its size. It also had a driver's window that many times would go up half way and then back down again with no prodding from me. I tried the window several times when totally sober and it still went up half way and back down again.
For a heavy car, the 545i handled well. When compared to the best of the smaller cars, it loses.
The Ra____it is a lot of fun to drive as it should be given its 3000lbs, inline 5 and 6 speed Tiptronic. It has no torque steer but does have a bit of body lean. Minor but noticeable. The Ra____it will not be a long-term vehicle for me.
The new Scirocco, another variation of the Ra____it platform, if it makes it to the US in 2009-2010, should prove exciting. It is supposed to be an enhancement of the 2 door GTI and will take the place of the newly defunct R32. I may trade for that one.
With the Quattro - best of all worlds...
But, time tends to heal some wounds, and I may decide one day to forgive and forget in the admirable pursuit of no body lean. If I do decide to go back, BMW will have to get rid of those dreadful run-flat tires. I wouldn't be caught dead in a BMW that has them.... unless it is of natural causes.
Speaking of the diamond ring, my wife has cubic zirconia rings too and one of her favorite tricks is putting on a fake ring and asking me if it is the ring I bought her and vice versa. Having XY chromosomes, of course they all look the same to me.
One of my favorite tricks is picking up my wife at the mall by parking in a row with one or two other small silver cars. I tell her to find our car. She usually can't. Must be the XX chromosomes!
I had driven a 2008 328i several months ago and as with all BMW vehicles with inline 6 engines, I found it to have disappointing low-end power. Once at speed, however, I found it to be a very satisfying vehicle.
I know that I, for one, would relish in reading all about the car from your hands-on ownership perspective.
hint... hint...
I've been meaning to get to a complete review, I just haven't really had the time. The short version is its very, very good. Yes it's front heavy, but the grip is endless, and it's surprisingly lithe for a big Audi. There's a lot more information coming through the steering wheel than you would expect. It will dance if you want it to, but it's also perfectly happy being a cruiser. The suspension is more than up to the task of handling all that power, which wasn't the case in the last E55 AMG I drove, and it's just as smooth in city traffic as a regular A6, which wasn't the case in the M5 I drove. That car just never calms down.
I think the S6 is the best looking car in the mid-lux class. The S treatments add the subtle touch of aggressiveness that the A6 needs to make it look fantastic, without making the car look cartoonish or cheapening the styling in any way. The interior doesn't have any of the XF's James Bond tricks, but the materials and switch gear all feel very high quality, which isn't the case in the Jag. When it has a few more miles on it, I'll post more.
Regards,
OW
The bold Genesis sales forecast comes in the face of a seriously struggling industry and record-high gasoline prices. Company officials remain unfazed: Krafcik says Hyundai is gaining prominence among consumers who are increasingly less-skeptical of the brand - and its residual values are among the industry leaders.
Krafcik says all this, combined with the swirl of rapidly-evolving economic influences in the U.S., has created an "inflection point" of opportunity for Hyundai to launch a BMW- and Lexus-baiting flagship - "the democratization of luxury," as he calls it.
"Yes, I know - it's probably not the best time to launch a V8," said Krafcik. The good news, he says, "is how darn efficient it is."
Supporting the point, Environmental Protection Agency fuel-economy ratings for the Genesis 4.6 are 17 mpg city/25 mpg highway - only slightly behind the 18 mpg city/27 mpg highway generated by the V6-powered Genesis.
Meanwhile, Krafcik confirms Hyundai is bucking the overall U.S. market, tracking to end the year with its highest-ever total market share, which currently is about 3.2 percent. Hyundai now is the market's No. 7 brand in terms of overall sales.
TM, you are right on the money as usual.
Here is the entire piece.
Less Snooty Fare/a>
Regards,
OW
So, my visit to the Audi delership will be something I'll look forward to. They did not have many cars on hand, though. And, there were a few new '07 models still hanging around with "sale" signs on them. I'll wait until the new models have rolled in. It will be more fun that way.
So... you continue to enjoy that S6! Sounds like a particularly excellent combination of spirited driving dynamics and comfortable cruising, all rolled up together in a well-crafted machine. Very nice.
TM
That sums it up quite well. The S6 is solid as concrete when compared to the LS430, but it's not uncomfortable. The fact that it's unfazed by pretty much everything gives you a kind of confidence behind the wheel that I've experienced in few other cars. In situations where the LS would slip a bit and the VSC light would come on, the S6 just grabs the road like it has claws, and you're off.
My figure of 45K seems to be the sweet spot of used high end pricing. A buyer would get a car with some remaining new car factory warranty or , if not, a factory CPO warranty. With a little patience the car you buy could have less than 20 K on the odometer. The contrarian in the crowd could buy an almost new A8 for A6 money.
We live in funny times. There really isn't any difference in price among these used high end sedans. Sure, you may have to give up a model year if you wanted an S Class but you could find one with low miles to make up for the loss of a MY. The only disappointment is that for Porsche 911 bargain hunters , anything newer than a 2003 is out of reach.
On a highly personal note, I think that the BMW 7 Series looks and drives much better and has less social-psychological baggage than an S Class. To my eyes a black or dark blue 7 Series looks great. I could even see myself driving one in the hiking shorts I wear on summer weekends. But a black S Class IMHO looks like you are trying too hard. For those of us in the northeast , its unfortunate that you can't get an AWD 7 Series.
YMMV
Adding to its already distinguished résumé, the Mercedes-Benz S-Class has once again been named the best new luxury car in the Auto Express "New Car Honours." This marks the third consecutive year the S-Class has won the award, a further testament to the luxury sedan's impressive dominance in its respective segment.
According to Auto Express editor in chief David Johns: "Few cars have reigned over such competitive sectors with such complete authority as the Mercedes-Benz S-Class. To many there simply isn’t a better limousine. Beautifully engineered both inside and out, it’s one of those rare cars that is as good to drive as it is to be driven in."
link title
It seems like it's been a while since we've posted about the S-Class, but it deserves the recognition for this award.
edit: B.I.G., I posted this before I saw your interesting post, and I see your point about the 7-Series as opposed to the S-Class. This post was not meant to counter that point in any way. Actually, I agree with your perspective, and besides, this award is for the current generation S-Class, and not the former generation "used" S-Class that you are referring to. Thanks for the post.
TM
umm, rum..kake? kayke? :P ohhh, rum cake :P just kidding.
Genesis itself, sans the whole marketing blunder, is a good car. Wont say I like it a lot, but its decent. However as good as it is, I have my concerns about it's chance for success, considering:
1. Image. related to people's perception, and its really hard to change, takes time as there's no shortcut to this.
2. Targeting the wrong market. Hyundai is pushing the Gen to fight Lexus, at this level no Hyundai is currently good enough.
3. Poor customer service. If Hyundai expect luxury shoppers to stop at Hyundai's dealership, they need to provide that experience worthy of a luxo brand. So far Hyundai doesnt deliver that.
4. Product quality. Good by car standards, good by near-luxury standards, but mediocre by luxury standards.
Trying to nail luxury car buyers isnt easy, and Hyundai doesnt have the right cards yet. Point is: the car itself is good, by normal standards, but fighting in the wrong race. Apparently even Hyundai agrees, as the company now put 300, Avalon and Maxima as their potential market competitors rather than Lexus.
Once we put Gen in the right market, comparison is easier to do.
Interior: good design, appropriate materials for the market, only Avalon has better materials and its arguably bland looking next to Gen's interior. 300c in contrast comes with low rent plastic interior that feels more like plastic toys than real interior panels.
Style: decent, not as bland as LaCrosse or Avalon but not as extreme as the 300 and Maxima either.
Performance: as far as I know its about class average, with 300 Hemi the only better one.
Service: other's customer service is about the same as Hyundai's
Value: with Avalon asking $35k and Chrysler pushing 40k for 300c, the Gen is right at home.
Its obvious isnt it? Hyundai is a great alternative in this class, and customers should look again.
Lexus will get a taste of their own medicine.
TM
Its hilarious though :P , go for it!!!
Btw, heres what I came up with on 911, a whopping quote of $58062 for an 06 and $54400 for an 05, both mediumly equipped. The 997 resale value is greater than I thought. Making it worse is its near impossible to find mildly optioned 911 around here (and anywhere else from what I heard). Conclusion: 911 is, unfortunately, out.
BIG, thanks for the info. Anything you'd recommend?
I didn't think there was such a thing as a Porsche 911 "bargain"
On a highly personal note, I think that the BMW 7 Series looks and drives much better and has less social-psychological baggage than an S Class. To my eyes a black or dark blue 7 Series looks great.
The previous gen 7 series post refresh was a pretty good looking car, and definitely looks a lot better than the old gen S-class, which is starting to look ancient. That design hasn't aged particularly well. The old 7's interior though was pretty lousy by the standards of the class. I'd rather have the A8.
As for the "VG", Hundai's timing couldn't be better; who would argue that this is not the time for another gas-guzzling, oversized luxo-barge? They call it Equus. Might as well have called it Edsel.
And, to top it off... in your recent post, you were just complaining about the poor treatment at your BMW dealer!!
"Think about it", Powders. OMG!... That's Hyundai's ad slogan!.... Hehehe.
TM
TM
I would have thought that with all the "early adopters" migrating to the new S Class, that the old gen S Class would have taken a hit and be now close to an E Class in resale. Afterall, the same engine is available in an E Class, the S Class hasn't had a great reputation for reliability, there is some negative baggage that goes along with driving one, and so on. This hasn't happened yet. Why? Maybe the brand is that strong? For a lot of people, especially non-car nuts, the S Class, like the IBM PC of 30 years ago, is only way to go.
Now, speaking of resale, can someone tell me why with the exception of some highly dubious stuff on Ebay, one can't find a used Bentley Continental for under 100K? Wasn't the MSPR only $120 or so, four years ago?