Luxury Lounge

tagman

LOL. No need to worry. And, you are right about the appearance of BMW. Except for an occassional bump in the road, they look terrific. Especially in comparison to a Lexus.

IMHO.

TagMan

hpowders

the best looking Lexus is the RX. Not only the best-looking Lexus but also one of the few really good-looking SUV's out there, IMO.

Totally non-functional, however with those ridiculously wide rear wheel wells creating such a narrow storage area.

And while I'm at it, wassup with the lack of thigh support for the driver's seat?

tagman

I thought you recently posted that the IS was your fav.

TagMan

hpowders

Yes! The IS is also quite nice. The RX and IS lead the Lexus pack.

My neighbor has a new maroon LS 460 and it is disappointingly bland-looking from the back. Sure doesn't look expensive.
At least the LS 430 looked high-class.
What were they thinking? :surprise:

drfill

A MT would make the IS350 a bit faster, but it would not make the car handle any better, so true performance enthusiasts would most likely still gravitate towards the 335i and G35/7 anyway.

True, but handling can be fixed. The wrong transmission can't.

And just because a car doesn't have the telepathic handling like a BMW doesn't mean the car isn't worth buying. Handling doesn't sell big here in the States. Never has.

Let's be real. There aren't that many true drivers left in America. Seriously. :surprise:

DrFill

drfill

If only this were true:

As for Lexus with sticks, the bottom line is they tried and people are just not buying it, the IS300 was a good example. I certainly would hope Lexus will include a MT for the IS350 during the mid-life-upgrade so the so-called enthusiasts will have one less thing to bash about. But at the end of the day, Toyota/Lexus are out to make as much profit as possible, not to satisfy enthusiasts' wishes.

Lexus didn't try. The IS didn't get a stick for more than a year. Many had already defected to the G by then.

My only issue with Lexus is they stacked the deck against the manual. They want to really mess with Mercedes, not BMW.

Infiniti wants to sell sticks. The G35 coupe is MORE powerful with a stick! That's dedication.

DrFill

drfill

Regarding Lexus style vs BMW style, BMW had a chance with the 7, and dropped the ball. The LS is MUCH better looking. Inside and out. Not even close.

The only BMW that turns my head is the 5.

And if you want my attention, there are better ways to get my attention than red guages. White or blue works for me.

A redhead perhaps? Maybe not in my dashboard.

DrFill

drfill

That wasn't my point, but thank you for asking.

If Lexus was really behind the stick, the 350 would have it.

That's my point.

I'm not spending $35k on a 200HP Six. It's just not happening. Not even from Lexus. The 2.5 is not competitive, IMO. I can get a 300HP+ G for the same money.

It's good for the secretary crowd, doh.

DrFill

houdini1

Okay, I am not bashing anyone or any car, just thought this was interesting.

1. BMW 3 series
2. Mini
3. Jeep Wrangler
4. Prius
5. Miata

The 5 are listed in no particular order as I remember the cars but not the order they were in. I read this under weird news. I have to admit that I like a couple of these myself!!

dewey

This from Weird News?

Not weird at all! At least 4 of the top ranked autos are also top ranked among most auto journalists. Apparently sexual orientation does not affect good choices in cars.

The 5 are listed in no particular order as I remember the cars but not the order they were in.

Despte the above fact your list puts the 3 series on the highest tip of Brokeback Mountain?

tagman

houdini,
Stop reading gay news immediately. :surprise:
TagMan

houdini1

I kind of drew that same conclusion. I think I put the 3 series first because it is the one I like the best of those listed...so don't get your panties in a wad.

tagman

I'm not spending $35k on a 200HP Six. It's just not happening. Not even from Lexus. The 2.5 is not competitive, IMO. I can get a 300HP+ G for the same money.

Makes sense indeed. As I posted, there is a Lexus with manual transmission... perhaps not one to get excited about. And isn't it interesting the way the article made it out to be something quite special?

My own personal opinion of Lexus and manual transmissions would be best described this way... getting a good manual tranny vehicle out of Lexus is like dealing with a black hole.

TagMan

houdini1

No, what got me thinking about this was a few posts back when you came out of the closet with praise for Lexus!!

tagman

No, what got me thinking about this was a few posts back when you came out of the closet with praise for Lexus!!

LOL. I'm just glad Porsche wasn't on the list!

TagMan

tagman

Here's a pic of what Toyota has up its sleeve. Originally shown in '05 at the Tokyo show, it now seems Toyota thinks its time has come.



Comments, anyone?

TagMan

tagman

In a couple of more years, Hyundai will offer a diesel in its wildly popular 7-passenger Veracruz SUV.

Here's the story:

Hyundai to offer diesel engine in the US


TagMan

tagman

Perhaps this one has been posted, but just in case, here's another nice pic of the upcoming BMW 1-Series coupe.



And a thumbnail of the rear:



TagMan

drfill

My opinion is I want Toyota to build the RSC and FR3 concepts.

I don't like that one.

DrFill

tagman

My opinion is I want Toyota to build the RSC and FR3 concepts.

OK, Doc, so everyone knows what the RSC is... here are a couple of pics:





And here's what the FR3 is:





The big consideration here is that Toyota has no known plans as yet to produce either of these, but may actually produce the FSC.

TagMan

louiswei

1. BMW 3 series

Oh god, I am so happy that the 3er beats IS on this list...

:P

tayl0rd

That RSC is a mix of the Toyota RAV4 and the Isuzu (or Mitsubishi) Vehicross.

topspin628

I was looking at 05-06 cpo S classes and trying to make the math work out. Some help please? I usually lease but CPOs don't lease out well. So, if one were comparing a 60 K 5 series or E Class, the lease would be around 900 per month tax in the payment for 36 months and 15,000 miles per year. You'd have to finance the 55-60 K CPO car, pay all of the tax (not just on your payments) and probably put in some service money (new tires? brakes- not a certainty but should be budgeted). So let's est monthly payments at about 1700 per month with interest. At the end of the 3 years (without service) you paid in about 29 K more than for the lease and you have a 5 year old car that's probably worth maybe 30K? So if my numbers are close and please correct if not, you would wash
out but you would have the risk that the car could be worth less and you would most likely have had to put in 1-2K for repairs of wear items not covered by the cpo warranty. So I'm guessing that to buy the 60K cpo S class is a more expensive prop than to lease a new 60K E class. I would welcome and clarification and correction. If so, then, cpo selling and leasing needs to change a bit for me to take part

houdini1

LOL! Yes, you don't always want to win!!

houdini1

Hmmm....that thing is butt ugly. Looks like a giant Honda Civic on steroids or a squashed Sienna mini-van.

But put a nice new clean diesel in it and I would love it!!

hpowders

Hey Dewey:

How many times has the 3 Series been ranked best by C&D? Is it 16 consecutive years now?

Many gay people are extremely trendy and have an acute sense of style. They find the 3 Series extremely "cool." Nothing wrong with that. It's a compliment.

Everybody in the know realizes the 3 Series is among the world's best vehicles.

Now we know it is among the world's most trendy. The compliments never stop. Heh! Heh!

BMW rocks!

jlbl

I do not like the rear end. May be because I am used to, but I prefer the hatched look.

Jose

drfill

I think it is a steroidal xB, and the interior had a leather sectional lounge sofa. Straight pimpin'! :shades:

The Ultimate xB.

And the valet would give me a sweet spot in the RSC. Hummer who?

DrFill

houdini1

Agree with you on the FR3. I was referring to the FSC.

dewey

There are very few absolute truths in our world but at least there is an obvious one:

The BMW 3 series is universally accepted as the benchmark sport sedan.

The above truth is the one and only truth that mainstream and alternative lifestyle groups can agree upon. Even the conflicting powers in the Middle East can cohesively agree that the BMW 3 series is numero uno.

dewey

Yeeech!!!

No offence to DrFill but I must say the FSC is a beauty when compared to the RSC which looks like a cute guppy that just overdozed on steroids. That small pimped up gangsta looking wagon called the FR3 is horrific (although it may attract high school kids). Those pictures makes me yearn for those dull conservatively styled Toyotas.

Doc now I can understand why you dont like BMW styling. :P

tagman

The BMW 3 series is universally accepted as the benchmark sport sedan.

Absolutely. Anyone that doesn't agree with this is out of touch with reality.

TagMan

pat

My reaction was the same as yours. I was beginning to think I was off-base, but thanks for validating it! :shades:

dewey

Thanks for your confirmation. Now I can cancel my optometrist appointment regarding new Rx glasses.

dewey

According to Edmunds InsideLine a biturbo V8 7 series has already been spotted at Nurburgring. This car can potentially produce 500HP or more.



link title

tagman

My reaction was the same as yours. I was beginning to think I was off-base, but thanks for validating it!

Yours and Dewey's response is certainly not off-base, IMO. When the Doc mentioned that he preferred those vehicles, I was a bit surprised, so I posted the pics for everyone on the forum to see what those vehicles actually looked like.

Of course, I never meant anything personal to the Doc, but those concepts are much too weird for my taste as well.

There are times when I truly question Toyota/Lexus designs, and I wonder if it weren't for the quality/reliability CR data, would Toyota/Lexus really sell so well?

TagMan

louiswei

Lexus, IMO, has the best design currently among the luxury manufactures. I wasn't a fan, as matter of fact, I hated Lexus' old design scheme with a passion. However, I have gone to the dark side after Lexus started to apply "L-finess" to all its sedans.

tagman

Lexus, IMO, has the best design currently among the luxury manufactures. I wasn't a fan, as matter of fact, I hated Lexus' old design scheme with a passion. However, I have gone to the dark side after Lexus started to apply "L-finess" to all its sedans.

We read about "L-finess" all the time. Can anyone tell me what "L-finess" is exactly? Is it a Japanese rendition of Chris Bangle's designs? LOL.

TagMan

houdini1

A vehicle custom made for Mad Max.

Pat, we hardly ever hear from you any more. Please chime in with your thoughts more often.

louiswei

I believe L-finess is exactly the opposite of the Bangle design. Bangle is notorious in using busy lines but L-finess is big on keeping the surface as smoothly as possible.

I can't see any BMW iteration in the current Lexus models. No doubt BMW cars are the champs in performance but at least to me they are not the best candidates to rip off from style-wise (inside and out).

tagman

I can't see any BMW iteration in the current Lexus models.

You've got to be kidding. Take a good look at the side view of the LS and tell me again it isn't Bangled. Many reviews of the LS have mentioned it as well.

No doubt BMW cars are the champs in performance but at least to me they are not the best candidates to rip off from style-wise (inside and out).

Goodness, Lexus isn't the only comppany to rip off the Bangled look. Credit where dredit is due... and BMW gets design leadership credit when it comes to the Bangled look.

TagMan

louiswei

When you say Bangle look if you meant the butt then I'll agree with you. However, I don't see many other manufactures ripping off Bangle's design except that Bangle Butt. Maybe the BMW has design leadership in your book but I personally wouldn't rank it so high. Also, what's up with those interiors (well, except the X5's)? Urg...

Haven't seen any reviews of LS mentioned that it has Bangle influence. Well maybe except the Bangle Butt.





Sorry, I just don't see it.

tagman

link title

I don't want to get into a big argument over this, but it is well-known that BMW had set a "Bangle" design trend, and that Lexus was a follower as well as others.

The similarity is quite obvious to me and others... sorry you can't see it.

TagMan

louiswei

I don't know who you meant by the "others". If you mean the lady who wrote that article and other BMW die-hards then well...

I think BMW sets the tone style-wise in the luxury segment in the late 90s and early 00s. That's precisely right before Bangle came in and screw it up. However, the new BMW concept CS is the best design I've seen for the last 5-7 years and guess what? Bangle is not the chief designer of that car.

hpowders

how come BMW sales are up through the roof since Chris Bangle took over?

Apparently hating Chris Bangle's glorious designs is a minority view that can't be backed up with tangible concrete data demonstrating that BMW has suffered since Chris Bangle took over. The buying public continues to buy the 3 and 5 Series. They don't seem to be too repelled.

Anybody can say something about anything, I guess.

tagman

I don't know who you meant by the "others".

link title

"The new-for-2007 Lexus LS also bears some resemblance to the BMW 7 Series."

TagMan

louiswei

how come BMW sales are up through the roof?

1. BMW does make awesome cars performance & mechanical-wise.
2. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
3. It's a BMW, people will buy it just for the name.

hpowders

I disagree with you. If Bangle was the "screw-up" you proclaim him to be, people would have abandoned BMW in droves. Who wants to be seen in an embarrassment? The Pontiac Aztek is a case in point.

A car not only has to perform well, but look good too!

BMW happens to be going through the biggest sales spurt in its history since Bangle took over, and other manufacturers have tried to climb aboard the parasitic gravy train by attempting to copy the Bangle designs.

Chris Bangle was on to something exciting and different: big, bold, sexy designs that the other auto manufacturers can't seem to stop imitating.

Not bad for a "screw-up!" :shades:

jlbl

What C Bangle has done is a true break-forward in design. Loved or hated, he has settled a new trend for others to follow it :surprise:. And you can easily recognize his style.

Regards,
Jose

louiswei

Let me re-phrase...

Chris Bangle screwed up the BMW design in my book.

Ya happy?

Man, and I thought Yankees fans are annoying...

:P