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Appreciate the clarification & the update. Sounds promising re the Audi service department. Also good to find out there is more than one salesperson. Michael was the lone figure on the premises when I was there. Their inventory was disapointing to me as well. When I go there next for test drives, I'll bet there still will be no 4.2 A6 or A8 SWB. So, I'll drive smaller engined A6. Then, to get a feel for the 4.2 I'll have to drive the A8L, which will also have to represent the SWB in my mind?
Tom Heater was the rep we had at BMW & seemed plenty personable, although we weren't ready to negotiate, as we told him up front. We'll ask for him when we go there next. I think it'll be a lot easier to buy off the lot at BMW vs ordering based on the packages we're considering. Ordering seems a certainty if we decide on an Audi.
If we go w/a (two maybe?) BMW, & decide to lease, perhaps I can bend H's ear...
Thanks again
Is that for real?
That's 10,560 gallons per mile! ... a single trip of 100 miles would require 1,056,000 gallons... that's over one million gallons!
A 500-mile trip would need 5,280,000 gallons... over 5 million gallons!
How much fuel can the ship possibly hold?
TagMan
DrFill
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
As an idea, if you want to save 37K of pre-tax (if you are a lobsterman, pre-tax and post-tax are the functional equivalents) money or 49K of W2 money consider a Volvo. (Help me out here, Briteness, isn't 37K pre tax the equivalent of say 49K after-tax for most readers of this board?) Specifically, take a look at the NEW '08 XC70 Volvo this fall for 40K . This will give you much better foul weather performance, more ground clearance, better OEM tires, more room, less to go wrong, and equally good cabin appointments without i Drive.
OR, look at the '07 Volvo R wagon for 300 HP and much of the all weather performance of the XC70.
Sorry, houdini, but someone gave you bad info. After a little research, I believe I've got the real answer...
The QM2 gets 0.00753 mpg.
BTW, that is the equivalent of 40 feet per gallon... not the 6 inches you were told... 80 times more efficient than your source told you. Time to have a little chat with your source?
link title
TagMan
PS. Just thought I'd irritate you with a couple more of those "cute" emoticons. :P
Actually I was just curious so I made all that up to see if I could get someone to do the research for me! Thanks!
I apologize for my wimpy little emoticon.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
I had another laugh. I believe I read somewhere that a Volvo was being suggested over a BMW equivalent. Most amusing!
For what AWD wagons do, the Volvo is better for significantly less money. Again, the 5 Series wagon has little room for Home Depot runs or husky prep school kids. Certainly you wouldn't want to strap a Christmas tree to the roof of a 67K anything. Moreover, do you really want to have to worry about ground clearance, hunks of ice in the parking lot, essentially summer tires, and twin turbos (!) with a new 5 Series wagon?
thank you for your opinions. Now its my turn to express my opinions.
For what AWD wagons do, the Volvo is better for significantly less money.
At least you are half right. It costs significantly less money than a 5.
Again, the 5 Series wagon has little room for Home Depot runs or husky prep school kids
Our 5 series touring does extremely well for our Home Depot runs and our slender prep school kids are very comfortable.
Certainly you wouldn't want to strap a Christmas tree to the roof of a 67K anything.
Fortunatley we have a 20 year old synthetic Christmas tree.
Moreover, do you really want to have to worry about ground clearance, hunks of ice in the parking lot
Our 5 series touring had no ground clearance issues during the worst snow conditions in Toronto. No issues whatsoever in a parking lot.
, essentially summer tires,
No issues with our tires. We have no inclination whatsoever in buying snow tires since our touring wagon is one great snow beast without one.
twin turbos
My only regret is that our touring wagon does not have twin turbos like my BMW335i sedan.
Oh and may I add one very minor point and it is this point why we bought the 5 Series Wagon. It was the best driving wagon compared to other wagons when we bought it. Oh and let us not even discuss the driving dynamics of some of the SUVs I test drove (--if anybody belives the Porsche Cayenne is a performance vehicle well then I guess ignorance is bliss)
The Volvo wagon lacks the panache of a Bimmer but has more of what I think people really need in a wagon. Especially those that don't live in a metro area (e.g., Toronto) and/or those who go into work early or stay late . (I don't think of financial types as going in before the roads are plowed or staying much after the market closes in the afternoon.) Specifically, it has more ground clearance, better all weather traction because it is more FWD biased until you are in the deep stuff, more interior room, more agressive OEM tyres (i.e., the Pirelli Scorpion--read the reviews on TireRack.com), much safer turn and stop lights (if you are ever behind a Volvo wagon at night or in the rain you are very aware of the signal lights because they are in vertical stack that goes all the way to the roof), standard fog lights, etc. The Volvo XC is truly meant to be driven in all weather and all conditons.
Additionally, I would feel very concered about using a 67K Bimmer for the kind of duty cycle a typical Volvo wagon is used for: runs to Home Depot, parking in an long term airport parking lot, parked for three days at the Island Ferry parking lot, the drive home at 7:00 PM in the middle of a January snow storm, tag sales, auctions, etc. I would be also concerned for dents, scratches, etc. Since most BMW's are leased I would be concerned about the lease turn-in inspection of the wagon. ("Gee, Mr. Lessor, the cargo area carpet is stained where someone dropped a bottle of red wine, the roof shows a scratch that someone buffed out, and one interior fender liner looks like someone went skiing in an Eastern Township Ski Area late one spring and never got all the mud washed out.)
I'm happy you closed by mentioning the Porsche Cayenne. IMHO there is nothing, absolutely nothing, better for a high speed, winter Boston to Montreal banzaii run. I can leave my office at 5:00 PM and be at the Ritz on Sherbrooke Oest in time to enjoy Friday night in Montreal. I've done it numerous times and love it. (I always pack a down jacket, gloves, ski hat and work boots though in case I have to "step out", as Vietnam era fighter jocks would say, some night in cell-phone challenged, rural VT.)
All that is great, but the XC70 is going to weigh more than the S80, and with just 235hp, its going to be a slug. Driving a slug is not fun. What about highway merging, or passing on a two-lane road? Is a car that does 0-60 in 8+ "safe" for that?
You are correct. The BMW 5 Series Touring remains supreme in its segment. By the way, it has plenty of room for stuff. Equipped with the 20 way adjustable comfort seats and leaving out the NAV, you have the smart alternative to an upscale SUV. As to it costing almost $70k, I believe many of us posting here can handle that as a buy or lease. If we couldn't, we'd be posting on the Kia thread. :P
By the way, Dewey, the 535xi Touring that I will be looking at WILL have the twin turbos.
The problem will be finding a demo to drive when all the dealer has is sedans and SUVs. Will have to make some phone calls.
Now, back to my research ... zzzzzz. :shades:
parking in an long term airport parking lot, parked for three days at the Island Ferry parking lot
Apparently your needs for a wagon are very differnent from our needs ( I say our needs since it is mainly driven by my wife) and as a result of this you and I are never going to agree on whatthe ideal wagon is. We do live in downtown Toronto , we take a cab to the airport and we have no need to park my car at a Ferry parking lot. Our 5 series suits our needs fine.
Oh yes and I can boast about our synthetic Christmas tree without shame due to my anonymous identity here.
My Twin Turbo Envy is not half as bad as it would be if I did not own a 335i. :P
you`l love it, especially with the extra power...On one of the trips to Florida, I really think the seat is more comfortable than the a8, and if not , you couldn`t proove it by me...Some stretches --if you are lucky--, and there is no traffic around, it is just effortless loping along well over a hundred...AS for space inside, my wife has alot of stuff she just seems to like to carry around with her all the time, and the pull up cover is nice to keep it covered up...i`m not sure is someone doesn`t live back there
"My client was obviously suffering from an acute case of twin-turbo envy!"
The 335i sounds just about perfect ... of course ... you might want to trade that in for a Hyundai Elantra. It can hold more stuff, you know.
Do you have a 5 Series wagon?
What bothers me is there is absolutely no "S" in SUV ( that there is must be one of the biggest successful lies perpetrated on the American public). I have yet to read any SUV review praising rear visibility. Think about it: isn't it absolutely insane to spend all this money on a Cayenne or X5, only to discover you can't see behind you without a rear-view camera? Not a very secure feeling!
If I go for more rear space and want to still keep the excellent visibility, mpg and handling, I believe the 535xi Wagon is an excellent choice.
Like I said, the problem will be finding one at any BMW dealer. It would most likely have to be a special order. I would assume I could drive a 535i sedan and pretty much conclude the wagon would have a similar feel to it.
I may have to call a lot of BMW dealers in Florida and NY to find one that I can drive. NY sounds more likely, as the wagon only comes with AWD.
I have given up on BMW interiors. Soooo boring!
The perfect vehicle for me would be a 5 Series decked out with an A8 interior.
Regards,
Hpowders
I assume the new one would have the extra hp. like three hundred....If it does, then it should be very peppy, and i can assure you the driving is fine, but probably not like your present car--but way good enough--What does the Mercedes station wagon have in the way of extra stuff...i think I remember they had a back floor that slid out for easy loading, and that may be nice if you wanted to get a bike back there....Personally I think they are all very expensive so I have been watching which way you go, as I am sure you will get best price no mattter what....You know they may have the diesel in the Mercedes station wagon?? Tony ps not that I would wish you to get the fuel on your hands---and I am sure it would be way too slow for you but who knows..
I do not like Volvos.
Did I mention I do not like Volvos?
TagMan
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
I do not like Volvos.
Volvo doesn't really have anything "class leading", but the S80 is pretty good. Most of their other cars are pretty old and will be replaced soon. The S40\C70\C30 definitely could be better, but Volvo does deserve credit for making arguably the best looking folding hardtop convertible.
I usually agree with you, but not this time.
Even with its faults, the 335i convertible still gets my nod... if it's a 4-passenger coupe you are referring to.
If we're talking 2-passenger, then it's the SL550 that gets my attention.
Either way, it isn't the Volvo.
TagMan
If we're talking 2-passenger, then it's the SL550 that gets my attention.
The 335i isn't bad, but the roof is slightly awkward looking. I don't like the SL's huge rear deck\big butt look. IMO, the C70 preserves that classic coupe look better than any other.
I live today because of a Volvo. Almost 3 decades ago it was a blessing that my parents owned a Volvo during a highway accident.
Volvo's reputation for safety still exists today. And that in itself is a worthy distinction.
Despite that I still love BMWs more. :shades:
The safety gaps between auto marques has narrowed during the years. Now safety is a priority for many firms other than Swedish firms. That is why Volvo is becoming less relevant than they were in the past.
Anyways talking about auto safety
The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) rattled the automotive world on Oct. 5 by announcing that side airbags that protect people's heads are reducing driver deaths in cars struck on the driver's side by an estimated 37%.
So are side airbags the seat belts of the 21st century?
Seat belts -- also humble and unsexy -- weren't required by law a few decades ago, and wearing them was not commonplace. Today, side airbags aren't always standard -- and as the safety bar ratchets ever higher, cars without them are lagging in safety ratings.
7 of the Least Safe Cars 2007 According to IIHS
Chevrolet Cobalt
Ford Focus
Toyota Corolla
Mazda 3
Saturn Ion
Suzuki Aerio
Suzuki Forenza
One car you will never find in the above list are Hondas since most of their important safety fearures are not options.(even for their cheapest base price Honda Fit)
Tagman I guess you were the one who said: "I love Hondas"
Well with a Honda you're safe enough without a Volvo.
DrFill
At this time I would also like to thank ?Tagman for his posting of the `links`.....Tony
So are side airbags the seat belts of the 21st century?
That isn't too surprising. For the last couple of years or so the IIHS has been testing small cars with and without side airbags, and often the same model without side airbags will fail and with side airbags will do fine.
Honda's safety record lately has been very impressive, as has Subaru's. The problem that Volvo has is that safety devices in cars have advanced beyond crumple zones and airbags. Volvo can't compete with something like Mercedes' Pre-Safe system.
OMG, it is wonderful to learn that a Volvo was instrumental in saving your life in a highway accident. That's fantastic! It is certainly understandable why you might have a special place in your heart for them.
The past is one thing and the present is another. Volvos are no longer the unique champions of safety that they once were, and nowadays they present no special redeeming qualities any longer, IMO.
The Volvo's style is as boring as I can imagine. Nowadays, I believe that Volvos are, in part, marketed by over-hyping their safety and essentially preying on some people's fear of driving and having traffic accidents. There is also a marketing appeal to the intellect... reinforcing the Volvo buyer's self perception of being perhaps a bit smarter than non-Volvo drivers, which is a bit bogus, IMO.
At this point in time, I simply don't like Volvos. I agree with Lexusguy that the Volvo hardtop convertible is one of their better designs, but as I posted, I'd take a 335i convertible or a Mercedes SL550 over any Volvo any day.
And, yes, on a seperate note, I did recently mention that I like Hondas... I don't recall saying I love them (although I suppose I could have), but I do like them in general... certainly not all of their cars, but I like the company and many of their products.
Again, I am very glad that your life was spared from tragedy and I wouldn't want to diminish in any way the significant role that old Volvo had in saving your life... I just have to be honest that at this point in time, I just plain don't like them.
TagMan
That it is too large to park , too big for the garage , that the exterior paint is too dark for Florida, as well as the black interior.
Honey , what do you think I should drive ?? Hehehehehehehe
Well, Sweetheart we need something smaller but with room for our Rotties
Honey, would you do the research for me ? Yes, of course.
Honey, can I pick the color ?? Yeeessss , Sweetheart.
Honey, I would like to drive a station wagon. No problem Sweet.......
Honey, I think I would like the Multi-Countour Seat , the Head-Up Display, the All Wheel Drive, the Night Vision , the HD Radio , the Logic 7, the Park Distance Control and of course those Twin Turbooosss and a few other things, like the IPod and USB adaptor.The Premium Package would be nice. Of course the Navigation with Real Time Interface.
But But Honey ....... I mean Sweetheart ......... Do you know what I ........?
Honey , yes dear, you can pick the color .
But they seem to have squandered that part of their reputation in the last decade or so. Seems a shame.
I thought it was self explanatory.
What is your question ?
Lou
But they seem to have squandered that part of their reputation in the last decade or so. Seems a shame.
Pat - You are so correct... and I agree that it seems a shame.
Here's an example of yet another problem with Volvo as recent as last Thursday. Although this is a minor technical recall, it is extremely recent and illuminates the present-day nature of ongong issues with Volvos.
Volvo recalling 42,000 XC90 models in the US
Volvo said Thursday that it will be recalling 42,000 2005 XC90 models due to potential short circuits in the battery. Recalled cars will be checked to see if they are safe and will provided with stickers to owners oo how to avoid risk of short circuit.
There have been no reports of short circuiting in the vehicles, Volvo Cars spokeswoman Maria Bohlin said.
The jack crank handle is incorrectly placed in the trunk of the XC90 next to the battery and if the two come into contact, it can cause a fire.
Bohlin declined to say how much the recalls will cost the company.
link title
TagMan
What happened to take Volvo from their reputation of bulletproof reliability they earned in the, what, 80s to early 90s?, to where they are today?
The name Ford could be the easy answer! IMO, Volvo has been asleep (more like in a coma) at the switch, relying on their old reputation instead of keeping up with the competition. Decades ago, Volvo was pioneering safety, but in recent years Mercedes, Lexus, and even Honda and others have taken the torch away.
I wonder what will happen if/when Volvo is sold.
TagMan
Lucky you! ...errr... I mean Lou!
Mine would weigh in at "only" $60k, a bit less "well-equipped."
How to down size your vehicle by up sizing your budget! LOL!!
link title
TagMan
I spent many hours reading most of the posts here at Edmunds, which for the most part are extremely educational.
I would like for my wife to drive a Station Wagon AWD , instead of a SUV. But can't decide
which brand to go either Audi , BMW or MB .
Her present form of transportation is a 2006 Lexus LS430 , but because of ours large pets we need the space.
Even after all the readings , and test drives we can't make our minds. The LS is not lease.
You are right Pat . My previous post is not explanatory but I hope is entertaining.
Lou
I don`t think you could go wrong with any of the three---and just my opinion, the bmw will be less of a presence than the mb...For some reason here in South Carolina, the mb wagon with the mesh grated seperator for pets is a status symbol for those who own a country place (plantation), and of course the bmw is for those who love a car....I`m just not sure about the Audi, and for some reason never even considered it...Maybe Hpowders will give it a look? Anyway `good luck` tony
If she's big on interiors, bet she likes the Audi!
If she likes the cushy Lexus ride, I'm sure she would favor the MB.
If she likes needless complication, then the 2008 BMW wagon is for her. Here are some examples:
1. The iDrive comptroller would probably frustrate her as it does most folks, even though it gives you control over a vehicle's functions like never before.
2.BMW messed around with the Steptronic transmission where you need to make an unusual move to put the vehicle in "reverse" from "park", pushing the shifter forward instead of backward.
3.The turn signals are unnaturally complex.
4.BMW forces you to ante up $1k for "comfort access" to avoid the hassle of putting a card in a slot and then pushing a button to start the car.
I don't like what BMW is doing to complicate things. Pretty soon, one will have to take a course as a prerequisite to driving one.
But I get plenty of perks staying with BMW, so I will most likely get my 4th BMW a year from now. And once you drive the darn thing, they have you hooked and they know it.
I would say if my wife was coming from a Lexus LS 430, any BMW is to be avoided. I would get her the MB wagon.
The '80s Volvos are like M-Bs of the same era, tough as nails and unstoppable. You still see them on the road. Volvo's problems are somewhat parallel to Mercedes' actually. The '99 S80 really began their slide downward. While they finally got some style, Volvo became obsessed with computerizing every aspect of their cars, and those early computers were notoriously unreliable.
I'm not sure how much of it was Ford's fault. Volvo did need financial help at the time of the buyout. They couldn't afford to develop their own small car, so they based the old S40 on a Mitsubishi design and the results weren't good. The S60 was actually designed before the S80, but they needed the higher profit margins from the S80 and launched it first. Also, unlike Jag, Ford pretty much kept their hands off of Volvo's day-to-day affairs. The P2 platform that rides under the S60, old S80 and V/XC70, and XC90 was purely Volvo developed, as were the 2.5L 5-cylinders and 2.9L 6-cylinder.
Platform sharing is actually helping Volvo, rather than hurting them. The new S80 which is based on Ford global architecture is much better than the old one. Volvo doesn't have their own V8, so Ford's connection with Yamaha was definitely a help there. Mazda is much better at developing sporty platforms than Volvo, so the new Mazda6 based S60 should be much more competitive than the old one, if Volvo doesn't screw it up that is. The Mazda3 and Focus are some of the best handling small cars in the world, and yet the S40/V50/C70 which are based on them are just mediocre.