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Thanks for the co-sign :mad:
I don't know If you caught my GM post of a couple weeks ago, but it was very interesting to say the least.
What I like about everything is that, unlike Ford, GM is revitalizing every brand they own.
From paltry Chevy's to mack-daddy Cadillac, I'm impressed. There is much work still left to be done, but the momentum is there to do it. And that is what counts.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
I happily drive a BMW. Yet here in Europe Audis currently outnumber BMWs and MBs except in the A1 category. As different from the USA, Audi is more popular than other German cars. I prefer BMW because of their driving qualities but I can understand my friends, acquaintances and other people who rather drive Audi, here, there and everywhere. My love does not interfere with the appreciation of other's perfections.
Jose
I'm not sure I would use GM's mild hybrids as ammo for how green they are. The reviews I've seen of the Aura and Vue green line have been pretty negative, C&D called the Vue "cheap hybrid, cheap car" and in Edmunds comparison, the Aura got absolutely trounced by the HSD based Altima and Camry.
That said, I agree that GM is in much better shape than they've been in awhile, certainly they are doing far better than both Ford and Chrysler right about now. Ford is so close to doom that they've even had to mortgage the trademark for their logo, and I think Chrysler still has some of those "sales bank" '06s sitting on lots somewhere. "Come in for a test drive, get a free Commander! Or two!"
GM is doing a decent job of juggling its many brands, but some are in better shape than others. Chevy needs the Impala and Camaro before they'll be a strong force again, as for the Chevy version of the Outlook/Acadia/Enclave, is that really necessary? Does GM really need four versions of the same car? Isn't this the kind of thing they were trying to stop doing? All they'll need then is a Pontiac, Saab, and Cadillac version, and they'll have a straight flush.
Pontiac is probably in the worst shape of all of GM's brands. Saab at least now has a slightly more competitive 9-3, and they're getting a better (Vue based, I think) SUV and a new 9-5. For the moment at least though, Saturn has better European cars than Saab does. Pontiac still has that "rental king!" image though, which tends to happen when all you have to offer are rebadged Chevys. I'm not sure the G8 can help. Pontiac already tried the transplanted Holden idea, and it didn't work, even with a name like GTO. The G8 also has invisible styling, and an invisible name to go with it.
The new CTS is the strongest product Cadillac has had in decades, but there are still issues with Cadillac as well. GM has pushed back the replacement for the SRX, I'm not sure they know yet what to do with that dud. Cadillac also needs something to compete with the S, 7, and LS before they'll really be taken seriously. The XLR didn't do it.
Yes I do think that Pontiac is way past time for a revival. The '04-'07 GTO didn't muster the cut. The G6 is already long in the tooth. The Grand Prix is so horrible that it should be relegated to rental fleet only. The Torrent, why?
Issues like those makes me wonder sometimes. Then I read stuff from Lutz and his envision for the brand. The Soltice was first, and a nice stab it was. It won't run off the Euro's, even GXP trim, but it's a welcome addition.
The whole G8 thing, I wish there was a better name. True enough the car it's based on is already for sale. But this time, that car just went on sale, unlike the Monaro Coupe-based GTO that was old from the start. I do like the architecture of the chassis and car as a whole, as is the powertrain. At least Pontiac isn't scared to offer a manual with the top V8 powertrain, unlike many other makes.
Cadillac? Well as pimpish as the Escalade is, it pales in comparison to the fresh design of the GL and sophistication of the Q7, RR, and even the old LX. A little more development would've been nice, altho as usual, Cadillac promises updates. They're finally going to combine the STS and DTS into one model since the CTS is basically a 5-Series sized car, with the interior room to go with. It has been said that these cars will be Zeta-based as the Sigma platform isn't anymore strectable pass the STS format. The DTS will in turn move up to LS and XJ price levels and content. How that turns out remains a mystery, although there are plenty of Cadillac customers who won't have it any other way other than Cadillac.
There is much work to be done at GM as a whole. They finally got the interiors under control, but some of the designs are still not import-best yet. But I'm convinced that they're on the right track, and with the best talent, they may one day have people talking GM again.
Technically, I've never left, as my Corvettes are still GM's after all. And judging from these cars, quality has improved dramatically.
Ah, you're my arch nemesis now! You're getting the R8. Super cool. A law collegue of mine opted to get his deposit back off of a Porsche Turbo Cab and get an R8 instead. I think it is one of the best super-cars to come in a while. I saw a white w/white sideblades yesterday. OMG, how gorgeous!
I was trying to justify buying one, but I'm really enjoying the XKR believe it or not.....
Very glad to see you brought up the Corvette... because I hadn't seen LG reference it in his reply to my original post on General Motors. LG really made a number of very good points as did you, particularly about Pontiac and the troubles with that division.
TagMan
- others didn't sit in an Audi before they dismiss it?
- others didnt know the "fact"? -> whatever that is
- Audi best in class? at one time? when? says who?
- which part of this post below is constructive? and not hypocritical??? pretty subjective and biased to a bystander
Pretty amazing, sometime you read things. cannot resist.
And so this post is to say what? It basically reiterates what I posted.
BTW, I've never gotten "upset" because some don't appreciate the Audi brand. What was said if you read it correctly was that "you have to know about it to be about it". Some have never sat in any one Audi model as of yet, but can render judgement based on mere speculation, no matter how prejudiced or bias it may be.
Would I preside over a case without knowing the facts? No.
Where did I ever say that any model was a "best" car? Best in class, yes, at one time. Where exactly did I say that any of these cars were rational purchases? I didn't think so.
"Also, do you really think anyone cares what car you drive or the fact that you can find it in a Mall parking lot?" Not even worth entertaining if that's all you got out of that one.
Also, I don't have any "chips" on my shoulder. The chips belong to the select group of people who feel that they have an unlimited swipe card to pass illegitmate judgement upon certain people that drive certain cars all the while getting frustrated when some talk about the car company they're fond of. Criticism is great, especially when it is constructive. Counter-intuitive or "hypocritcal" information spoils the bunch...... What's it gonna be?
That's absolutley fantastic! I can hardly wait to learn about your experience with the R8.
It's great that someone on this board will have first-hand information and feedback.
I'm not about to give up on my Carrera S Cabriolet, but let me tell you that an R8 represents the only single car out there at this point in time that could tempt me enough to do so.
Congratulations. Hope the wait doesn't kill you... I'd be chomping at the bit!
TagMan
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
The only cars I will be seriously checking out in 2008 will be from BMW and Acura. However, I just may drive a new Accord ... late at night ... though the back door ... so nobody can see me.
I wholeheartedly disagree with you Howard.
Stick with that Senegal PC for $23
Invest $1800 for a BMW option
And forget that Swiss debt instrument. :shades:
I dont like the A4 and A6. Drove both and didn't like them.
The A8 or S8 or S4/S6/S8 or RS4 or RS6--I dont know I never driven them nor do I intend to. Here in Canada BMW M series equivalents are priced far better than those Audis and personally I would rather drive a BMW anyways.
I saw a 335i Coupe on the road today. I let him beat me. My good deed for the day. Anyhow, the "335i" on the back was so sharp and beautiful. A great job!
However, the "look" of the Coupe is not for me. Looks like something out of Star Wars.
BMW would take an immediate hit.
Ford would immediately rise after selling Volvo and soon after that it would fall again and hit a new low and then keep on falling to new lows. Ford is dead money. Those Ford scions who live on Ford dividends will soon have to sell their yachts and cancel their club memberships.
True. But then again remember Rover. :sick:
In fact I'd rather drive my BMW335i over the new BMW M3 and put the money I saved in those Swiss Debt instruments or maybe even an expensive Apple computer that is not able to download those snazzy icons.
What RR does is beef up BMW's upscale image. Rover? I think not.
I have had a lot of trouble with websites not being setup for Apples. Quite annoying, but at least my identity hasn't been stolen.
your new and improved icon arrived DOA in this forum.
Wish you more success in your next post. :P
Personally, beyond the 335 Coupe, there is little there for me to like. But this is not to say that I dislike the BMW as a company. In fact, very few are run this efficient.
I personally owned a 760iL, and after a few months, opted to give it up as it just did not appeal to me. Ditto the 5 and 6-Series, although I know they are class worthy.
Fair enough. Any BMW bigger than the 5 series does not interest me.
By the way there were only three luxury marques that had recorded positive US sales growth in July compared to last year. Guess who they were?
July 2007/2006 Sales Growth
Winners
BMW +26 %
Audi +6 %
Porsche +5%
Losers
Acura -17.7 %
Jaguar -40.7%
Infiniti -5.9%
Lexus -4.9% :P
Mercedes -10.3 %
Volvo -3.6%
Saab -7.5%
Non-Luxury Loser
Toyota -4.5 % :P
Actually it arrived and initially posted just fine... jlbl got a glimpse of it and replied with a smile... but later I accidently killed the little guy. I tried everything to resuscitate that little whistler, but in the end, I was too late.
There will be a special service tomorrow for any other smileys that want to pay their respects.
TagMan
On behalf of Apple computers I have to say that though my PowerBook G4 felt from the desk to the wooden floor one year ago, it runs all right to date. Solid as a BMW Series 5. My PB G4 has just got a bumped corner, which is like an ugly scare on a warrior face: it shows the greatest past :P. It is only because of that I forgive it its being abandoned by the mass computer world.
Jose
If coming to Europe, may be you will leave luxury car brands while journeying and try instead to hire a luxury bike for € 5 per week or € 10 per year (:confuse:). This can be done in Seville, Gijón, Córdoba (Spain), Lyon, Paris (France), or Vienna (Austria). You may as well rent a luxury car and put the bike on (or inside), to show how fit is your state of mind.
Regards,
José
:shades:
We got a Lincoln Navigator to hold a couple of couples and luggage.
What a piece of junk. Plastic handles with paint wearing off, seats that should have been luxurious were hard and felt small, switch-pieces were cheap-o.
No wonder FoMoCO is in trouble. If this is the best they can do they have no chance.
BTW, also felt sluggish while glugging down gas and maneuvered like a barge. I get that it is a truck-based SUV, but this was ridiculous!
A 5 Euro bike was way beyond my budget back then. But the next time I go I will definitely consider pedalling.
If Ford can sell cars with European "fit and finish quality" at low US prices then they will remain in business.
Will it happen? NO! Unfortunately it will never happen and the onslaught of continued Ford cost cutting will cheapen Ford quality even further and as a result will continue to reduce their US sales volumes.
A Death Trap story is unfolding at Ford (specifically with Ford cars not their pickups) .
Assuming the vehicle continues to be a gem:
I would probably offer $30k around May 1, 2008 and wait to hear a counter-offer from BMWFS by the middle of June, 2008 (up to $31k). If nothing by that time, they can keep the 545i and I would move on to one of my already thoroughly researched choices. My turn-in date is August 1, 2008.
... GM has pushed back the replacement for the SRX, I'm not sure they know yet what to do with that dud. Cadillac also needs something to compete with the S, 7, and LS before they'll really be taken seriously. The XLR didn't do it.
The badge engineered Monaro was a failure for 2 reasons; 1) The name. The GTO legend is bigger than the reality. The GTO is remembered as an aggressive, road burning, snorting monster (nevermind that it looked at the taillights of about anything with a HEMI in it back then, but that's another discussion), and the Monaro was simply NOT the car to bear the GTO badge. It's one of the most nondescript cars on the road. IMO if they had named it just about anything other than "GTO," it would've been successful. It was a great car, but it was no legendary GTO. Not even (classic) GTO clubs liked it.
The SRX is simply underrated and overlooked. I haven't read any bad press about it. The problem is, there is very, very little press about it to begin with, and Cadillac doesn't advertise it at all. I don't know if I'd go so far as to call it a "dud," though. They have upgraded the interior for '08 and it's one of the best Cadillac interiors ever. The new CTS' interior is based on the SRX' interior.
The XLR. :sick: Now that's a real piece. It certainly wasn't meant to compete with the S, 7, or LS, though. I'm guessing you probably meant the DTS. I read in one of the rags that we'll be getting a new BLS built on a shortened CTS chassis to compete with the 3-series, the CTS will finally be going head-to-head with the 5-series, and the STS will be stretched a bit to battle the 7, S, LS while the DTS will finally be put out of it's misery.
Back to the XLR, I think it should be dropped and the ETC (or call it STC) reborn on a CTS chassis to be a serious competitor to the 6-series and SL.
Some Models Offer
Little Protection
In Minor Collisions
Many drivers assume expensive luxury cars are better-built than lower-price models. But they may be surprised by how poorly bumpers protect the cars from damage in minor collisions.
Damage to the rear of the Infiniti G35 totaled $4,035 after an impact of six miles per hour.
They may also be surprised by the cost. Of 11 luxury cars tested recently by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety, a research group financed by the insurance industry, four sustained more than $10,000 of damage in a series of four collisions at speeds of three and six miles per hour. The worst-performing car racked up nearly $14,000 of damage.
Unlike the high-speed crashes simulated in the insurance group's other tests, bumps at little more than walking speed rarely damage cars beyond repair and cause relatively few injuries. However, they happen so often in parking lots and slow-moving traffic that most drivers have been involved in such accidents, have come close or have at least witnessed them.
The total repair cost for damage from four impact tests -- on each car's front and rear bumpers and front and rear corners -- ranged from $5,243 for the 9-3 from Saab, a unit of General Motors Corp., to $13,983 for the Infiniti G35 from Nissan Motor Co.
Over the past few decades, changes in design and regulations have led to changes in bumpers. Once prominent steel structures that hung on the front and rear ends of cars, they have become less obtrusive in the last 25 years. Indeed, it has become difficult to tell where the car ends and the bumper begins on many models as bumpers have retreated behind plastic covers that blend into the vehicle's shape.
That blending, which often helps a vehicle aerodynamically, is part of the problem during minor collisions, the Insurance Institute says. Low, rounded bumpers often allow one vehicle to slide under another during a collision, causing costly damage to headlights, hoods and fenders. In the crash tests, frontal fender benders generally caused the most expensive damage, ranging from $976 for Volkswagen AG's Audi A4 to $5,486 for DaimlerChrysler AG's Mercedes-Benz C-Class.
In the rear-end crash test, the Audi performed best, with damage costs of $918, and the Infiniti was worst, at $4,035. In front-corner collisions, Ford Motor Co.'s Volvo S60 fared best, with damage of $543, while the Infiniti had the most expensive damage, at $3,544. The rear-corner test did $669 of damage to Ford's Lincoln MKZ, while the Audi A4 topped the list at $1,899. Other cars in the test group were BMW AG's 3-Series, Honda Motor Co.'s Acura TSX and Acura TL, and Toyota Motor Corp.'s Lexus IS and Lexus ES.
The cost of fixing the damage has increased over time and resulted in higher insurance claims. The average insurance payment per claim for collision coverage rose to $4,241 last year from $2,860 in 1996, according to the Insurance Institute.
Drivers involved in minor bumps in these luxury cars face the costly combination of flimsy bumpers and expensive parts. In front-end crashes, many bumpers weren't wide enough to protect headlights, especially in corner impacts. As a result, headlights were damaged in 15 of the 22 tests, and complex headlight assemblies on some cars can cost $800 to more than $1,000.
According to the Insurance Institute, damage to the Audi A4 in the rear-collision test was limited to the bumper cover, but the cover costs nearly $800 and then has to be installed and painted.
Wall Street Journal
This just out from Automotive News...
For U.S. automakers, July was the darkest month in the 102-year history of the automobile business in the United States.
For the first time, foreign manufacturers controlled the market. The import-badged cars and trucks captured 51.9 percent of the market, leaving only 48.1 percent for the domestic brands of General Motors, Ford Motor Co. and the Chrysler group. A year ago, the domestics had 52.0 percent of the July market.
In raw numbers, the score was: Imports, 679,523; Detroit 3, 629,569. The domestic brands still hold the lead for the year to date. Seven-month market shares were 51.4 percent for the Detroit 3 domestics and 48.6 percent for the import-badged brands.
Still, sales weren't great for the imports, either. Auto sales wilted for just about everybody in July. For the month, total sales fell 12.4 percent.
Withered by high fuel prices and blistered by consumers strapped for cash because of rising mortgage rates, five of the big six automakers lost ground in July. Only Nissan eked out a small gain.
Not even Toyota Motor Sales U.S.A. Inc. and American Honda Motor Co., which seem to always prosper in good times and bad, could buck the July drought. Both jacked up their incentive spending, but suffered sales declines anyway.
As usual, the news was the worst for the Detroit 3:
-General Motors: down 22.3 percent
-Ford Motor Co.: down 19.2 percent
-the Chrysler group: down 8.4 percent
I personally think that General Motors could be the first of the Detroit 3 to rebound... particularly as upcoming new models start to become more in line with consumer expectations... and I think Chrysler might be second to rebound, and I expect it will be a very rough ride for Ford.
TagMan
Just thought I'd reiterate this for those posters that continue to bash Audi.
"In the rear-end crash test, the Audi performed best..."
TagMan
link to R&T link to EGM
TagMan