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Many of the bumpers are flimsy and fail to absorb the energy in a crash, leading to damage to the grille, hood and head lights, the institute found.
"There shouldn't be much or any damage in collisions at these speeds, especially to expensive and presumably well-made cars," said Joe Nolan, a senior vice president at the Institute.
The institute conducted a series of four low-speed crashes on 11 2007 luxury vehicles. It found the Infiniti G35, which starts at $31,450, had the highest repair bill at nearly $14,000 in combined damages for the four tests. In one test involving the front-end, the G35's bill was more than $5,000.
The Acura TL and Mercedes C Class racked up more than $11,000 in repairs for the four tests while the tab for the Lexus ES nearly topped $11,000. Damage to the Lexus IS cost more than $9,500.
Only three vehicles sustained less than $6,000 in damage: the Saab 9-3, Audi A4 and Lincoln MKZ. Other damage estimates included $8,224 for the Volvo S60, $7,554 for the Acura TSX and $6,681 for the BMW 3 Series.
Automakers said the tests did not assess the vehicle's safety and only focused on repair cost. They said it was hard for the tests to replicate the low-speed crashes that typically occur on the road.
Nissan Motor Co. spokeswoman Jeannine Ginivan said it was "highly unlikely that anyone would be simultaneously involved in the four low-speed crash modes under real-world conditions." Infiniti is Nissan's luxury brand.
Mercedes-Benz spokesman Rob Moran said the results did not reflect the automaker's "holistic approach to occupant safety. This philosophy influences vehicle design and development even down to the front bumper."
Acura, the luxury brand of Honda Motor Co., said in a statement the TL and TSX sedans were "designed to perform well in real-world situations, and are not limited to specific laboratory tests of bumper performance."
Bumpers are designed to absorb the energy of a low-speed collision and prevent damage to the front-end. But the tests found that many of the vehicles would slide under the bumpers of the vehicles they strike, causing extensive damage.
In other cases, the institute found the bumpers were flimsy or weren't large enough or extend out to the vehicle's corners to protect it from damage.
Serious injuries are uncommon in low-speed crashes, and the institute's bumper tests did not assess passenger safety.
___
Huh????????????????????????????????????????
We might be able to forego the responses of "Huh" with a bunch of question marks that way.
And while I'm here, let me note that your comment about second-class citizens is pretty indiscernible as well. Maybe try to be a bit clearer (without insults of course) so we can have a productive conversation. We would all appreciate it.
Don't you mean websites aren't setup for Safari? Whether you run OSX, Windows, or Linux should make no difference as to whether a page will display correctly or not. Firefox for Mac is the same as the Windows version. Try that. I'm a loyal FF user on my Vista machines, and never have to touch IE for anything, so my identity also hasn't been stolen.
No, indeed the initial press was very good. It was one of C&D's "5-best trucks" several times. Cadillac also did advertise it quite a bit when it was new, back when they were still running the "breakthrough" ads with the Zep soundtrack. I think they stopped the advertising because it wasn't working, everybody continued to buy X5s and MLs. When I said "dud" I meant sales wise, not quality wise, although the initial interior was awful. With the new CTS it seems like Cadillac is finally getting over their old "fix the interior at refresh time" system.
I meant that the XLR was an attempt to make Cadillac into a "serious" $60K+ luxury brand, not that it would compete with the 7 or S. Cadillac still doesn't have a competent car in that area.
No real progress, in fact, the styling suggests decades old.
It makes the Cadillac Escalade feel best in class by comparison, although it definitely isn't.
But at least Cadillac have, within the Escalades 3 model cycles, kept things interesting, enough to make it reign supreme as the "King of Bling".
That grille and the severely underpowered 5.4L V8 certainly do them no favors. And what is it with Lincoln's infatuation with '70s interior cues like those awful square gauges? The MKX is supposedly selling pretty well, for reasons I don't understand.
I also use Firefox. Much faster.
Audi +6%?
Say it ain't so. How does a car company that nobody wants or loves GAIN in sales? This is not suppose to happen. It was not designed this way.
Lexus, -4.9%? Muy Bien. With all of the talk of the LS sales supposedly going through the roof, sales of the IS as fast as they can make'em, and the RX holding it's own, what gives?
Interesting news about Chrysler tho. 8.4 isn't bad but sales weren't that impressive to start with. And some dealers, believe it or not, still have '06's on the lot.
Even with Toyota putting $3k on the hoods of Tundras, 4Runners, Avalons, Camrys, Highlanders, and Corollas and 2k fot the Prius it still was not a good month.
I, myself, refused to join, since any club whose standards are so low, they would enable me to be admitted as a member, I find totally reprehensible.
Dude, I have no idea. But it is extremely irritating.
Memo to Lincoln: It's not working!! Cut and run and give those lingering sales to the Escalade.
300hp to move 6000 pounds won't win any awards. That grille was supposed to have been scrapped back with the Edsel. And to counter the Escalade ESV, Lincoln had the gall to come out with an "L" model. What? Why? The chrome somehow, in a weird way, works for the Escalade, while the Navigator shoul've chosen a monotone applique.
Yeah it has a powerfold third seat. Power-deployable runningboards(so cool in '03, but '07 says next please). Beyond that, it's once-hip THX system will be canceled due to decertification from Lucas(Ford definitely can't pay the man).
With all of that said, why are they wasting assembly line time with it? Just take all of the parts(sans the dashboard and grille) and make an ultra-lux Expedition, a true Limited model.
http://www.pressroom.toyota.com/Releases/View?id=TYT2007080113917
And Toyota IS NOT offering $3000 rebates on the 4Runners, Avalons, Camrys, Highlanders, or Corollas - I don't know where you got such nonsense. The Prius is not offering a $2000 rebate, but up to $2000 in discounts for certain option packages!?!
http://www.toyota.com/prius/index.html?s_van=GM_TN_PRIUS_INDEX
http://www.pressroom.toyota.com/Releases/View?id=TYT2007040454724
http://www.toyota.com/prius/options.html
I understand that neither one of you are particularly fond of Toyota, but please post accurate information when trying to state purported FACTS.
That's downright nasty news. They're missing the boat on that one. My guess is the diesel will come later... after it's first likely debut in the X5 and a 5-Series sedan.
Still... disappointing to say the least.
TagMan
Nobody pays much attention when the Lexus haters post bogus info or twist the facts. It happens so often most of us just ignore it. Please remember that they are DESPERATE!! :shades:
They whine and cry like babies if someone dares say a bad word about BMW or Audi even if based on fact. Then to show their honesty they make up their own facts or lie outright about Lexus. Shameful.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
http://www.edmunds.com/incentives/RebateController?step=1&setzip=75201&tid=edmun- - - ds.n.incentivesindex.incentives.1.1.*#toyota
A $500 rebate is available on the Prius and $1000 on the Tundra for active military ONLY. However, I do know that the $3000 rebate is available on the Tundra to regular retail customers in certain parts of the country.
Interestingly, Lexus is not known to be offering any factory incentives in DFW (according to Edmunds), although Mercedes is offering $4000 marketing support for certain 2007 S-Class models currently in dealer inventory:
http://www.edmunds.com/incentives/RebateController?step=1&setzip=75201&tid=edmun- - - ds.n.incentivesindex.incentives.1.1.*
http://www.edmunds.com/incentives/RebateController?step=2&modelId=100505665&setz- - - ip=75201&state=TX&tid=edmunds.n.incentivesindex.incentives.2.2.Mercedes-Benz*
"When you look at penetration, Dallas has one of the strongest luxury car markets anywhere," said Kirk Frederick, Boardwalk Porsche's general manager. "This town likes flash."
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/classifieds/news/automotive/terrysga- - rage/stories/111406dnbusporsche.31b9d7b.html
We are also home to the most advanced BMW dealership in the world:
http://www.classicbmw.com/history.aspx
Why ANY S-Class needs $4000 in marketing support in such a hot luxury market during its first model year is beyond me. It just couldn't be that some potential customers are considering and subsequently purchasing one of the outstanding competitive sedans, especially not from Lexus.
Yes even I can make a typo once in my life. My personal relentless pursuit of perfection is close but not that close.
You had posted:
understand that neither one of you are particularly fond of Toyota, but please post accurate information when trying to state purported FACTS
Houdini had Posted:
Nobody pays much attention when the Lexus haters post bogus info or twist the facts. It happens so often most of us just ignore it. Please remember that they are DESPERATE!!
They whine and cry like babies if someone dares say a bad word about BMW or Audi even if based on fact. Then to show their honesty they make up their own facts or lie outright about Lexus. Shameful
Wow it amazes me on how such wrath can be triggered by a typo. Amazing! :surprise:
Wow only $4K. What is that a few percentge ponint? That's quite amazing especially for a car that sell for about 28 percent more that a Lexus LS. What is a few percentage points in this case?
The suit claims that the sensor under the front passenger seat of all ES350s does not work properly in some situations, and may fail to trigger the right front airbag in the event of a collision.
The suit further alleges that Lexus has refused to correct the problem. “The defendants have indicated that they do not have a solution for the defect,” the suit said
By equipping their vehicles with the defective airbag occupant classification sensor systems, defendants have breached their expressed and implied warranties in violation of Florida law,” Schlesinger said in his suit. “The defendants continue to sell and lease the defective vehicles despite their awareness of the defect and the dangers posed by that defect.”
Involved are “tens of thousands of vehicles manufactured by the defendants, which are leased and sold throughout Florida and come equipped with dangerous and defective airbag systems,” the suit claims.
At issue is the ES350’s airbag system, and specifically the systems’ airbag occupant classification sensor.
“All of the defective vehicles are equipped with a weight sensor system beneath the front passenger seat,” according to the suit. “The purpose of the sensor is to gauge the weight of the person in that seat.”
When the sensor detects the presence of a passenger, the suit claims, it arms the passenger airbag. But the suit alleges the ES350’s sensors are defective and often do not detect the presence of a passenger.
Involved are “tens of thousands of vehicles manufactured by the defendants, which are leased and sold throughout Florida and come equipped with dangerous and defective airbag systems,” the suit claims.
At issue is the ES350’s airbag system, and specifically the systems’ airbag occupant classification sensor.
“All of the defective vehicles are equipped with a weight sensor system beneath the front passenger seat,” according to the suit. “The purpose of the sensor is to gauge the weight of the person in that seat.”
When the sensor detects the presence of a passenger, the suit claims, it arms the passenger airbag. But the suit alleges the ES350’s sensors are defective and often do not detect the presence of a passenger.
The suit also claims that ES350 owners from around the country have complained about the airbag system, and some of them have filed complaints with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. A number of those complaints were included as exhibits in the suit.
The suit wants Lexus to re-call and re-purchase the ES350s at their full cost; wants full refunds for those people who have leased their vehicles; wants the cars re-fitted with functioning airbag systems; and also asked for compensatory damages for all costs and loss of value.
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LOL,
the prosecution proceedings have begun and I dont even have a lawyer :sick:
A fellow Canadian named Conrad Black was treated more fairly than this---at least he had a team of lawyers during his Chicago trial.
The good news is that those disgruntled Lexus ES owners do have lawyers. (refer to my last post) :shades:
LOL... since when are the Prius and A6 direct competitors?
You crack me up.
Gosh, how many more F150 trucks does nearly bankrupt Ford sell compared to umm... let's see... how 'bout the Toyota Avalon? :P
TagMan
Schlesinger says according to Toyota's own literature, the Lexus ES 350 includes an upgraded airbag system that weighs passengers; a sensor in the seat is supposed to activate the air bag system if it detects more than 104 pounds.
In Rosen's car, engineers found his airbag system did not turn on until the sensor detected 127 pounds in the passenger seat.
http://cbs4.com/consumer/local_story_211124623.html
I will be watching this story closely, and I am sure you will as well.
Sounds like they're gonna need 'em.
TM
So, the passenger needs to weigh 15 lbs. more than he should... Heck that's nothing a few dozen Big Macs with Super-size fries can't fix... and it would be less expensive than that attorney... and a lot quicker, too.
TagMan
Is a little calibration issue the best you can come up with? Goodness, that is right up there with McDonald's scalding coffee!!
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
BTW, I thought CPA's live and die by percentages . . . a few percentage here a few percentage there, before you know it, there goes the livelihood :-)
Once again, you're really reaching here brightness. The A6 is at the very least twice as expensive as a Prius. That kind of thing is going to impact sales. Even the mighty 5 and E which dominate the mid-lux segment sell far less a month than the Prius. As a percentage of Audi's total sales, the A6 isn't doing too badly in the marketplace. It certainly is not the epic disaster that is the Acura RL.
Now, after being caught out, you are squirming and trying to save face. Sorry, nice try, but "typo" does not hold up under scrutiny. :P
Nice catch jcoby!!
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Some automotive mottos one can take seriously and others make you laugh:
"The Ultimate Driving Machine"
"The Relentless Pursuit Of Perfection"
:P
Oh and I do have some Lexus news for you: Lexus LS models are going out the door at prices that are a few percentage points lower price than in Janauary
That decrease may be due to product mix (LWB vs. SWB) or options. But what is apparent is that buyers of the LS460 are willing to spend less on this car.
I already posted the data a while ago in this forum. I can tediously dig it out again if requested to do so.
Based on your doom and gloom predictions of the MB S CLass I would say that the LS in a few years may be as discounted as that Bambi 1 1/2 DVD you can find at Walmart. Ofcourse such doom and gloom predictions are silly and I will admit that my LS prediction are also silly. But if it makes you happy then please go ahead with this silliness about doom and gloom S Class pricing and Audi A6/Prius comparisons.
Apparently my negative Lexus figure was not a typo at all.
It was based on this site which did have a wrong number.
Verdict: I am innocent of any intentions with regards to denigrating the GREAT COMPANY OF TOYOTA. :P
Refer to Aug. 1st 3:54PM Blog:
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Nagoya
Toyota also said its profits got a boost from a weak Japanese yen, which makes its products cheaper in overseas markets
Munich
Despite BMW's record vehicle sales and steady profit in recent years, the world's best-selling premium-car maker is seeing its bottom line increasingly ravaged by a weak U.S. dollar.
What do these two tales have in common. Foreign exchange. In this case the very weak Yen is a wind on Toyota's back and the very strong Euro is a head wind against BMW's face.
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I think it stinks that you were accused of intentionally distorting and completely changing data, and having sinister motives... all in some twisted underhanded attempt to compromise the reputation of Lexus.
How ridiculous and unfortunate. You never even got the benefit of the doubt... from suspicious minds that are supposed to be regular posters with credibility.
I truly believe, Dewey, that it is a bigger reflection of those that made such accusations.
We all make mistakes on occassion, and some of us have opposite views, but intentionally changing data is something I haven't witnessed here... although I have seen varying perspectives surrounding the same data, and that's a normal and acceptable situation.
As far as I'm concerned your integrity is intact... and there should be no doubt.
TagMan
Let's put this in perspective.
This just out from Automotive News:
August 3, 2007
UPDATED: 8/3/2007 11:39 A.M.
TOKYO -- A favorable yen rate was the largest factor pushing Toyota Motor Corp.'s profits higher in the three months that ended June 30.
Hmmmm... the LARGEST factor...
TagMan
Absolutely, but Toyota also grew sales by 15% world wide. To combine sales growth with improved profitability is staggering.
Also, from the previously mentioned article in NY Times:
Toyota said sales also rose from the previous year, by 15.7 percent to 6.52 trillion yen, or $54.7 billion. That was more than G.M.’s best-ever quarterly sales of $54.5 billion, posted in the same quarter of last year.
That's a straight dollar to dollar comparison between GM's best ever quarter and Toyota's best ever quarter.
Also consider that improved profits due to the Yen potentially allow Toyota to improve sales discounts to the customer without having to pay the price for those discounts. What a deal for Toyota, stick to your original profit plan, while reducing prices...
Finally profit is profit. It just adds to the manufacturers ability to sustain growth, invest in new technology, add to the marketing budget, hire more talent etc.
Don't get me wrong, I am for all manufacturers improving their profits- assuming that their good fortune will be passed on in quality improvements.
One of the reasons that I personally attribute to Toyota's recent success is that the "Detroit 3" haven't offered nearly enough of the right products at the right time. This sometimes results in Toyota getting a greater share of the marketplace by default on the part of the "Detroit 3"... IMHO.
Thanks for the additional info.
TagMan
Again, the "typo" is not really the issue, but the actions afterward.
It has good looks, it's a nice practical size, and it has a huge cargo area for its size... best of any of 'em.
I agree you need to drive it... and let me know what you think of the drive.
TagMan