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Comments
Oh, mos def. I was meaning in a mileage since, especially over the 4-cyl model.
And I'm with you. There are the BMW diesels and hi-po TDI's coming on board to satisfy the, ahem, fun crowd.
Hey Luckylou -
Make sure you tell the Lexus salesman that you were referred by H.G. Powers... so he can claim his share of the commission. He sure has earned it!
TagMan
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Selling a whole bunch of cars to people who drive on the wrong side of the road doesn't sound like something I would beat my chest over. :sick:
DrFill
From this moment on, I rededicate myself to earning your trust again. I will improve.
Everybody is entitled to one mistake. :surprise:
Munich, I will do better! :shades:
I need to vindicate Mr. H , presently we own two Lexus . The LS430 that my wife drives is not versitale and could use an station wagon instead. No SUV .
The three choices are Audi A6 , BMW 535xi and the MB E Class.
We still have not made a decision on how to proceed.
Concerning Mr. H , he made a very valid point about the Touring Bimmer and the apprehensiveness of BMW offering the wagon.
The 2008 models are just around the pond and my choices will improve.
Like this famous anthropologist used to say " There always is another species "
Lou
For what it's worth, I don't really consider myself smarter than others, just diligent enough to have ground through the numbers. At the time of my second last car purchase, my wife was brain washed by the public media into hating SUV's, so a wagon it had to be. The only wagons available back then were:
1. Audi A4, A6
2. BMW 5
3. Ford Focus, Taurus
4. MB E
5. Saturn L
6. Saab 9-5
7. Volvo V70 and derivatives
8. VW Passat
9. Subaru Legacy
10. some forgettable hatches like the Suzuki etc..
With the size requirement (midsize seating and at least 70cu.ft behind front seats), safety requirement (having just survived a car crash in a BMW 5 series), and cost considerations, the choice was quite obvious. When another vehicle purchase decision came up for the other garage slot three years later, I picked an SUV.
They sure haven't here. I'd pull out. Nothin' premature about that!
DrFill
Oh, absolutely... but sometimes for status or prestige, and other times for fun and excitement, and still others for "smart/intellectual" reasons... there are plenty of reasons. When it comes to Volvos and Saabs, it's often justified as a "smart" or "intellectual" decision... just like you have demonstrated.
It's not a right or wrong thing... it's just typical.
TagMan
DrFill
Also, check the return on investment per unit for Audi as it has tripled to 15% (per unit) in the last several years, while BMW's return on investment keeps dropping.
I just don't see your justification of attacking Audi sales as unsubstantial or as unreal. Sounds bias to me.
Finally, unit sales per Audi dealership are increasing and not flat. Check the figures from AE that show that
LOL...
Of course you realize now that you were framed... the obvious victim of an underhanded, unscrupulous setup if there ever was one.
Your integrity is intact.
TagMan
DrFill
Everytime I have a problem with someone, I will remember your wise words and say, Oh well... "There always is another species."
They call me:
Mr. H
My perks may become a thing of the past.
Good thing Germany is currently a democracy. Things could have really gotten ugly! :surprise:
(CBS4) FT. LAUDERDALE We've come to rely on airbags to protect us in an accident They are standard equipment on just about every new car on the market,
But CBS4 reporter David Sutta found in one case, drivers of a specific Lexus may not be as safe as they think because of an alleged flaw in the airbag system that sometimes disables it.
A class action suit has been filed in Broward County demanding that the car be recalled.
Artie Rosen, of Boca Raton, told Sutta he first noticed the front passenger side airbag system of his 2007 Lexus ES 350 shut itself off about a year ago despite the fact that his wife was in the seat.
"You're driving down I-95 and all of the sudden it's on and all the sudden it goes off," said Rosen. "You just pray that you don't have an accident in that time period. I told my wife she has to sit in the back."
Rosen said when he realized it wasn't just his car doing this, but his wife's too, he went to the Lexus dealership for some answers.
"I've been there over 11 times and they came to my house quite a few times with engineers," said Rosen, "and it still doesn't work. They don't know what's wrong."
Broward attorney Scott Schlesinger, who filed the class action suit against Toyota, said once word got out that he was working on this matter potential clients lined up to have their Lexus ES 350s tested by an engineer he had hired.
"So far each car that we've tested shows the same problem," said Schlesinger.
Schlesinger says according to Toyota's own literature, the Lexus ES 350 includes an upgraded airbag system that weighs passengers; a sensor in the seat is supposed to activate the air bag system if it detects more than 104 pounds.
In Rosen's car, engineers found his airbag system did not turn on until the sensor detected 127 pounds in the passenger seat.
"It's very scary," said Rosen, "you think you have protection and you don't."
Three weeks ago, Toyota issued an internal memo informing their service departments of the problem and instructed them to make the airbag weight sensors more sensitive. It also instructs them to only make the repair "based upon a customer's specific complaint."
"I don't get the sense that they are ready yet to fully acknowledge that it is a problem," said Schlesinger, "I think it's something they are hoping will go away."
In response to this CBS4 Investigation Toyota provided a written response which said "Lexus stands fully behind the design and performance of its front passenger airbag system" and it "meets or exceeds federal motor vehicle safety standards."
In the statement, Toyota also advises that if the airbag system malfunctions, owners should bring their vehicles to a dealership which will "modify the system."
Schlesinger doesn't think that's enough since a person's safety is based on them noticing a single light.
"I hope we can get them to recall the car and fix the car," said Schlesinger. "(They need to) send a letter out and let everybody know, 70-thousand owners of these vehicles that 'hey we've got a problem and we're working on a fix."
For its part, Lexus doesn't think the weight test is fair. They say the computer that controls the airbag system uses more than weight to determine if the system should be enabled or disabled.
Germany's No. 3 luxury carmaker, after BMW and Mercedes, is on a tear, with new luxury models and older models that retain their cachet:
by Gail Edmondson
Audi's (NSUG.DE) hungry-looking front grille is looming ever larger in the rearview mirrors of BMW (BMWG.DE) and Mercedes (DCX). Audi's sporty new models not only are powering faster global sales growth than German rivals but are also rapidly narrowing the profit gap with Bimmers and Benzes, according to results released by the company on July 3.
If the trend continues, by 2010 Audi's operating profit is likely to exceed that of BMW, and two years after that it may well overtake BMW in revenues, says Adam Jonas, London-based auto analyst at Morgan Stanley (MS). "It's all driven by new models," says Jonas, who expects Audi's vehicle sales to grow at an annual clip of 10% over the next three years—roughly triple the rate of BMW.
The recent crop of Audis clearly is surpassing expectations. The company, a division of Volkswagen, has dazzled car buyers with upmarket sporty cars and cutting-edge design ever since the 1998 launch of the iconic TT roadster. But few counted on Audi ever catching or overtaking its larger German rivals. Fast-forward nearly a decade and Audi is successfully wielding the same growth strategy premium-market leader BMW deployed in 2000 to outsell Mercedes. Audi, Germany's No. 3 premium automaker, is on a tear to expand its lineup of high-performance cars such as the posh Q7 SUV and the A5 coupe, and it's employing head-turning design to steal customers from the competition.
Respect for Their Elders
The numbers tell the story. In the first half of 2007, Audi's worldwide car sales rose 9.8%, to 509,079, as revenues rose 12.4%, to $24 billion. Global sales at BMW were up 4.5%, to 730,285, by comparison, while Mercedes' fell 3%, to 591,200. First-half revenues at Audi rose 12.4%, to $24 billion. Mercedes edged up 1%, to $34 billion. BMW releases first-half financial results on Aug. 1.
In a sign of brand edginess, Audi has been able to match a marketing feat that only BMW had been able to achieve. Sales of Audi's older models, such as the A4 and A6 midsize sedans, have continued to grow despite younger competition. Both BMW and Audi defy industry statistics in that regard. Aging car models normally succumb to sharply declining sales after three to four years. You'd expect that to be the case with the current Audi A4, which is already six years old and starts at about $28,000.
Yet Audi managed to sell 162,900 A4 sedans in the first half of this year, up 1.5% over the same period a year ago. And now it is planning to unveil a new-generation A4 in September, which should give it yet more room to run. "It's impressive. Audi has fine-tuned its sales organization," says Commerzbank analyst Albrecht Denninghoff.
Dealerships Go Luxury
In the U.S. market, Audi still trails well behind BMW, Lexus (TM), and Mercedes, but is finally starting to outpace the growth of rivals there too. In the first half, Audi's U.S. sales rose 13%. Audi sales and marketing chief Ralph Weyler says new dealerships there are helping to transform Audi's once-lackluster image in the U.S.
Until recently Audi sold its cars in the U.S. through Volkswagen (VOW) dealerships, which muddled its image by association with a mass-market brand. In markets such as Miami, Los Angeles, and New York, upscale glass-and-steel dealerships have opened, helping to lure buyers with higher incomes. The edgy, minimalist design of the new dealerships exudes upmarket ambience. "The floors are dark gray, setting off the cars like diamonds," says Weyler.
On Course to Be the Best
Audi is not just selling more cars, it's making more money on those cars. First-half earnings zoomed ahead as more expensive models and an increasingly tony brand image reaped higher margins per car. In the first half, operating profit increased 39.5%, to $1.38 billion, and net profit rose 67%, to $937 million. That puts Audi's 6.4% operating margins on a par with Mercedes' long-term returns and very close to BMW margins. Audi's management vowed two years ago to be the world's most successful premium car manufacturer by 2015.
"We are on course," says Audi Chief Executive Rupert Stadler. Stadler, previously the company's chief financial officer, became chief executive when Martin Winterkorn moved in January to head Volkswagen. Now Stadler must show he can ensure an unbroken streak of hot models that make good on the promise.
Gail Edmondson is a senior correspondent in BusinessWeek's Frankfurt bureau.
TagMan
Surprising lack of front legroom in the X5. I moved the seat all the way down and back-the trick for getting the most room-but, still, not very generous. More front legroom in the 2005 X5 I drove.
The X3 is just right-about 5 feet of storage space with the passenger seats down and decent front legroom. Also, no high step-in like with the X5.
However, I have been reading plenty of X3 Steptronic horror stories here and on BMW sites, concerning significant hesitation after slowing down and then giving it gas, which almost caused some folks to have accidents. The complaint is frequent enough to indicate concern. Also, the X3 failed the crash test causing me to take this vehicle off my list.
I asked a salesman whether he had a 535xi wagon for me to check. He said he did, but came back several minutes later and told me it had recently been sold. He told me they should be getting another one in several weeks.
Anyhow, Mr. Otis' oatmeal raisin cookies were delicious, so the visit wasn't a total loss.
They call me ...
MR. H
I am terribly disappointed to learn that about the X3.
However, if a diesel version is offered, the hesitation that is associated with the gas ICE would probably not exist.
Unfortunately, we still don't have solid confirmation of a diesel X3... only rumors of one... which is better than nothing I suppose.
TagMan
One guy got really annoyed as another poster attempted to teach him the proper way to step on an accelerator pedal! :sick:
Anyhow, I found the X3 perfect in size, both outside and in.
The interior is now like other BMWs-boring but upscale.
For me, the X3 is just right. However, I didn't get a chance to drive it, as my time was limited.
I'm not happy about the X3 crash test results-all 3 of my BMWs passed the test.
However, I would surely drive one if between now and next July, a diesel version made an appearance here.
I also plan on re-visiting the dealer when that 535xi wagon comes in. Hopefully, I will be able to drive it. I will post my impressions at that time. When I asked him how sales of the 535xi wagon were going, he told me, "quite well", as he has identified a shift in interest from the X5 to the 535xi wagon.
Like much dealer talk, doesn't mean it's necessarily true.
They call me:
Mr. H
I was just putting the Doc back into his spacey atmosphere with that one.
How's the S6? I'm still enjoying the S8, don't really drive the W12 much. Will be doing so around our first snowfall.
Interestingly enough, none of them have even driven late model Audi's, perhaps haven't even sat in one.
More important, Audi isn't alone. The people that participate in this forum reserve the right to critique any make they feel. However, I think that it is baseless and of no merit when a person can past judgement on cars based on mere speculation.
Tag and I both have driven the LS460. Although we share similar sentiment regarding the car, it doesn't get near as much flack from us as the S-Class or the Audi brand receives around here. Again, you have to know about it to be about it.
Sales, styling, brand recognition, loyalty doesn't mean smack until the person who's cutting check for any of the cars of topic says so.
I drive to A8 models. Why? Because at last check, this is America, and I can darn well do with my money what I please.
It's not the best-seller, no longer class leading thanks to the '07 S-Class, and I can't make it self-park itself. But I won't mistake it for another one in the parking garage of Nieman-Marcus on Saturday. Ditto Tag's Vanden Plas
The sales surge that Audi is enjoying comes with due respect. The company is a global carmaker that has just as much technology as the rest of them. Never have I had to visit the dealership for an unofficial visit of any sort.
This post is to say that for the selected few who have a witch hunt out for the second oldest premium brand sold today, lay off until you've actually done some research to back up baseless stories about "nobody wants Audi's" or "Audi shouldn't hold'em, just fold'em".
Lexus, MB, BMW, Jag aren't without fault. But they're just like any company of any industry: They're run by humans.....
HOWEVER, having said that, multiplying models without a corresponding increase in total sales is not a "deadly metric". Its simply running in place in a difficult environment.
Incidentally, the local Porsche dealer gave me an A4 loaner to use while they figure out my Cayenne. It looks good, nice interior, and I enjoy driving it around town. I think it is a great car for someone in the Northeast to putz around in, especially from November through April.
How long are you going to hold on to it? '04-'05 Jaguar XJs are astonishingly good buys in terms of the amount of car you get for the money. I would suggest going that route...provided you buy a CPO XJ and sell before the warranty runs out. The new XJs are far more reliable than the old ones, but you still don't want to be hit with big repair bills.
On the other hand, if the car has to last into the 100K mile+ range, I'd suggest the LS430 instead.
I'm not sure that they can keep up, when companies like M-B and Lexus are spending millions of dollars a day on R&D. Volvo just doesn't have cash to burn like that. The best they can do is a "slow down!" light on the dash, and a heartbeat sensor.
Lou
As a business person looking at demographics and the economy, I could easily imagine that BMW and MB could be on shifting soil. The aging boomers in a soft economy may not lust much longer for these brands. The new Boston BMW/MB dealer is now faced with factory demands to build two new, separate facilities/showrooms. This may not the time to do that.
I do think that most people will more likely look at the monthly payment and the opportunity costs they are going to incur with a particular option. The opportunity cost concept is easily calculated and understood. (Gee, rather than buy a BMW 5 Series Wagon for 67K, I can buy a XC70 wagon and put 40K into a single state tax exempt municipal bond fund earning 3.5% tax free. Or, I can buy the wife a new Volvo XC Wagon AND myself a decent 23' Mako center console.)
BTW, what is the "15% self employment tax"? I would imagine that most small business owners are subchapter S Corps where everything flows thru to the personal return.
It's both the employee and employer's share of SSI. When you are self-employed, you pay both. And brightness is right about how high the tax rate can go. You don't have to be making anywhere near $200k to see rates close to what he's saying. I know all about it. :mad:
Amen to that brother!
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Firstly, General Motors’ European division reported its highest quarterly profit in 11 years in the second quarter!
Secondly, GM posted a second-quarter profit of $891 million. This is a big comeback from the massive $3.4-billion loss a year ago.
Thirdly, the General has major "green" plans in the works. And the 2008 model year is where it begins... right around the corner!
They will offer mild hybrids as well as one of the most advanced heavy-vehicle hybrids ever produced. GM's 50-state clean diesels will show up by 2010. And General Motors expects to mass produce fuel-cell vehicles within approximately three years!!
I'll be paying closer attention to GM than I ever have before, as I can't help but find myself respecting them a bit more as they actually seem to "get it". We'll see over these immediate next few years if they really do have the right products at the right time.
TagMan
And, it's about time!
As a side note, I really hope the amateur psychotherapy analysis posts don't continue much longer.
Let's continue to talk about the cars and not whether someone is "happy" or not and why, depending on his choice of vehicles. :shades:
Also, since the last time I looked, this thread had the word LUXURY in it. I don't find it appropriate for some folks to constantly remind the rest that we could save a few bucks by buying an alternative brand to a BMW. I have to assume most of us here can afford to buy or lease any of the higher-priced vehicles listed at the top of the thread.
And in closing, anyone who is used to BMW driving dynamics will not be satisfied with a Volvo. Sometimes, you do get what you pay for.
Yeah, I agree... brings back too many memories of that electroshock... which they promised I wouldn't remember after the electroshock. (Ha Ha)
OK, so you agree that GM could very well be on the right track. That's good... and I think it is safe to say that Hemi will agree as well. We may all be on the same page here. Although the Doc may think Toyota can't be touched... we'll have to see where he weighs in on this.
TagMan
I believe the GM catalyst for serious reform could have been when Hyundai emerged as a serious player, GM management and workers were read the riot act. If so, it seems to have worked. They were really approaching the point of no return.
Really? Hyundai? Maybe... but I somehow think that when they realized that Toyota was on their heals, they woke up... and then when Toyota actually took the lead, that's when they hit the panic button.
As you said, it will raise the bar for everyone... and that's a very good point.
TagMan
(I cannot post the 'whistle smily' because all they are only to be downloaded for XPWndows :mad: )
here ya go...
TagMan
I'm about as big a Hyundai fan as I am an Audi fan. They've won a couple of quality awards, and that's great. And maybe that serves as a nudge to their sin-sai, Toyota, and that's fine too.
But without market penetration, and without a market strategy, nor the patience to execute one, Hyundai impress me at all. Buick and Ford have won recent quality awards too. Are they superpowers now?
Their core is weak (Elantra and Sonata are losing sales fast), their whole lineup is new within the last 2 years, and sales are as flat as a pancake. Their models over $25k have modest sales, to say the least. Going up from there isn't very promising. :sick:
Now they want to become pseudo-lux? Sales have leveled off because Hyundai is impatient, and most of their redesigns have gotten lost in the haste. Nissan has made this mistake before, not that everyone learns from the experience of others.
The "I am Luxury, but I'm not" is another faux-paus waiting to happen. When I see an inkling of a plan, that someone else hasn't failed with, let me know.
All I can say is learn from success, not failure. Hyundai is not a serious contender in my book, and that won't change anytime soon.
I wish everyone well.
My advice to you is start drinking....heavily. Life's more fun when you drink. Can't you see the smile on my face?
The Pursuit Continues......
DrFill
I hope your time off is well-spent and that you come back safe and refreshed. Enjoy that Big Apple... it goes 24/7, so remember to sleep it off once in a while (to get those toxins out... ha!)
This place won't be the same without ya'. I'll miss your posts. Have a great trip, and we'll see you in October!!
and... thanks for the "advice"!
TagMan
Safe trip, good time and y'all come back now, hear?
I found out the same thing. Can't get those smileys through to my Apple computer. That's what we get for paying 3 times more than a Windows PC, eh, Jose?
I know. I know. I could have bought a PC from Senegal for $23 and invested the $1800 I would have saved in Swiss debt instruments.
I am bonding so well with the 545i, I may just decide to buy it from BMWFS next year. The car has performed flawlessly with no reliability issues. Low mileage too. The timeless beauty of the Chris Bangle design is really the icing on the cake! :shades:
However, this is not a great financial decision. Buying a vehicle outright is most of the time, less expensive than leasing and then buying the same vehicle.
Definitely an irrational, emotional decision (one is permitted to analyze himself, but not others). We'll see. I have been known to ocassionally change my mind from time to time.
They call me:
Mr. H
BTW, I've never gotten "upset" because some don't appreciate the Audi brand. What was said if you read it correctly was that "you have to know about it to be about it". Some have never sat in any one Audi model as of yet, but can render judgement based on mere speculation, no matter how prejudiced or bias it may be.
Would I preside over a case without knowing the facts? No.
Where did I ever say that any model was a "best" car? Best in class, yes, at one time. Where exactly did I say that any of these cars were rational purchases? I didn't think so.
"Also, do you really think anyone cares what car you drive or the fact that you can find it in a Mall parking lot?" Not even worth entertaining if that's all you got out of that one.
Also, I don't have any "chips" on my shoulder. The chips belong to the select group of people who feel that they have an unlimited swipe card to pass illegitmate judgement upon certain people that drive certain cars all the while getting frustrated when some talk about the car company they're fond of. Criticism is great, especially when it is constructive. Counter-intuitive or "hypocritcal" information spoils the bunch...... What's it gonna be?