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Comments
Even their SUV/CUV looks like the iconic wagon with a slight "lift kit" treatment.
Some iconic designs are OK, Porsche being a good example, but the Volvo looks are tired... comatose... IMHO.
Maybe you don't think Ford has hurt Volvo, but why buy an automobile company only to neglect it? Not enough money to infuse? They've let Jaguar die, and I don't see anything happening at Volvo to get all that excited about. And now, Ford's got financial issues... if they sell Volvo, what would happen?
Even from a hypothetical perspective, what could ever be done to inject some adrenaline into Volvo?
TagMan
We both love the Audi A6 interior, the comfort of the MB , the BMW still a toss up.
Is a matter of plusses and minuses and $$$$.
We might venture for the first time into the waters of leasing.
With all the information here at Edmunds , I am leaning into leasing for 3 years and paying the full amount up front. Any advice will be welcome.
Thank you again
Lou
Lou, I don't get it either.
Almost makes me want to get off the wagon!
PS: Unlike some, I "got" your post the first time I read it.
WHY ... WHY ... was I born with this gift??? :P
Now back to my crossword ... 3 letters for great German car company. Racking my brain! :surprise:
TM
Suggestions?LS430 or XJ8 or?? in the full size 04-05 with under 30,000 ,miles (still have some warranty left) catagory what would be the best pick
The price of a used Jag is considerably low compared to when new, so you are in a good position to take advantage of that... you can almost always find an incredible deal on a used XJ.
Because of the value that you can get with the Jag, and the reliability that is associated with the new generation XJ, the Jag is a reasonable choice. There will be little things that can be picked on... such as a few items that are made of plastic, but overall, the craftsmanship is superb with top materials.
The Lexus will get you a cushier ride with numb and disconnected steering, but it is rock solid in its dependability. The leather quality isn't as good as the Jag, but with care, it should last nearly as long. The Lexus will most likely have a good navigation system and a better audio system, although depending upon how equipped, many Jag XJ models have navigation, voice command, Bluetooth... even the possibility of a DVD rear-seat entertainment system.
Lexus will offer the quieter ride, although both are very quiet.
There are Lexus fans on this forum that would argue in favor of the LS430, and I would not disagree that you can't go wrong with the Lexus. And some will put down the Jag, but I know from a personal ownership experience that the new generation of Jaguar XJ can be a satisfying and trouble-free experience. Others on this forum do not like the Lexus at all, so you might need to filter through the opinions. Mostly, I have seen very objective feedback given to questions like yours.
After driving both cars, if you like the feel and driving dynamics of one more than the other, than perhaps that's your car. If it's more about looks, then whichever one makes your pulse quicken is the one to get. It's going to be your car, and ultimately you should be OK to get either one.
A warranty of some sort is always a good idea, and knowing the service history of the car is also important. Once you think you have found your car, you should get a diagnostic service check done on the vehicle... money well-spent, IMO... to be sure everything is like it should be.
Good luck, and keep us posted on your progress.
TagMan
I don't really know too much about the Jag but it would be far below the LS on my radar screen.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
IMO the Volvo of the 21st century is Honda. Honda today is primarily known for being safe, environmentally friendly, durable and reliable with the bonus of not being premium priced like Volvos. Honda does not view safety as a luxury or option and I say kudos for Honda for equipping their lowest priced Fit with safety features that are lacking in even far higher priced cars.
Makes me wonder if Professorial types will trade in their Volvos for Hondas?
Mazda3 and the Focus have the same platform as a Volvo S40/V50/C70?
YIKES! What a disaster when you consider both the Mazda 3 and Focus were ranked the least safest cars by the Insurance Institute (IHS).
So much for Volvo safety. :sick:
I find it kind of funny that Porsche recently claimed that they will never build a diesel because diesels are too heavy. Interstingly Porsche now is thinking of a far heavier hybrid drivetrain.
Go figure :confuse:
Low volume cars rarely are lease bargains. But I know from my experience that you can get a pretty good cash deal bargain.
Mercedes working on engine that will combine petrol and diesel
Reuters
Published: July 30, 2007, 00:01
Frankfurt: Mercedes-Benz is working on a new kind of four-cylinder engine that combines features of petrol and diesel motors to generate 238 horsepower while using less than six litres of standard petrol per 100 km.
The premium brand of DaimlerChrysler plans to roll out the new 'DiesOtto' engine "in the medium term", the world's fifth-biggest carmaker said last week, eager to polish its green credentials as pressure builds to reduce the emissions that contribute to global warming.
Using less than six litres of fuel per 100 km is the equivalent of getting nearly 40 miles per gallon.
"This figure by no means relates to a small or compact car, but to a vehicle the size of the current [Mercedes-Benz] S-Class, with the level of comfort and safety that is typical of a Mercedes," a company statement said.
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The move reflects efforts by carmakers to make petrol and diesel engines more efficient and less polluting to ensure they remain in broad use even as alternative drivetrains such as hydrogen fuel cells arrive.
DiesOtto - the name combines the German words for diesel and petrol engines - envisions an engine with a displacement of only 1.8 litres, turbo-charged for high performance and using petrol direct injection to boost efficiency. The idea is to use a spark plug to ignite the fuel/air mixture when starting the engine or at high speed. At low and medium speeds, however, the combustion process works more like that of a diesel engine, which does not use spark plugs, it said.
Volkswagen is working on something similar and has said it plans to roll it out by the middle of the next decade. It already offers a technology with its 1.4 litre TSI petrol engine that unites a mechanically driven supercharger and a turbocharger.
The engine, which is currently offered with the Golf GT Sport compact, has 168 horsepower.
link title
I enjoy your sense of humor.
Antsy , me. Ooooh 3 letters ! ! !
So now I should say... WE like Honda!
TagMan
But, no one has discussed relative value with an eye as to what wagons really do. As an airport runner, soccer mom chariot, summer vacation vehicle for a family, foul weather alternative to an SUV, long haul 25MPG crusiser, Volvos, particularly the V70 series, offer good value. The XC is priced 30K pretax less than an E Class or 5 Series Wagon. While HGPowers may be correct that most people on this forum could handle 70K for a new Bimmer AWD wagon, that misses the point. For the kind of things (and frankly the kind of driver who usually drives them) the Volvo wagon is asked to do, it is a good fit at a decent price. I see no advantage to spending 40K or so (post tax) more for a German wagon.
Yes, Dewey. If the 535xi Touring is still my number one pick in mid-2008, I will buy it rather than lease it, although I absolutely hate doing that.
What do you mean by good cash deal instead of leasing ?? Can you please explain ?
What percentage off the MSRP ??
We are leaning toward a wagon either a BMW 535xi or the E320 MB .
Any input will be most welcome.
Thank you
Lou
Could you explain why buying would be preferably to leasing ??
What constitute a " good deal " ??
Within a 100 miles radius we have at the most two BMW dealers but one of them is less than 25 miles away.
If we pay the leasing in full for 3 years , do you think we could get better numbers ??
Thank you
Lou
that is excatly what I was looking for in comparisons.I have RX330 that my wife loves,not perfect(only one Lexus dealer in state and they wack ya hard for service ex $175 for oil change) but she likes it better than the Explorer she had so I suspect the LS will be reliable as well.This is going to be a 50th b day present for myself
That Jag does have the "look" but I was concerned that I would be at the only Jag dealer in the state service desk and had the "why so much cheaper?".I was actually toying with a No Nav LS (not something I would use) so the Jag's lack of bluetooth,Nav Dvd is no loss to me.Looking for a nice ride,lots of leather and wood and not spending my days playing games with service writers.
I have been checking the carfax and of course going one owner,no accident only cars.The CPO is tempting on those LS's but I think the added cost (most of the 04-05 sold through Lexus dealers ar 5-8K more than the highend used car dealers)and still having the regular warranty for at least a few months and 20,000 miles will be sufficent.
Bottom line it seems I can get a 04XJ8 for $25-30 with 18-30,000 miles and a 04 LS430 same miles for $30-34.Is the reliabilty of Lexus worth the extra money over the Jag.It may not be.Then again the resale may be better with the Lexus.
What is best way to check out these dealers?I found in Maryland (none up this way) that get low mileage luxury units but except for carfax/feedback what else do the net buyers do?
again thanks for excellent feedback on my post
Regards,
Jose
As has been previously posted, there is no big demand for this wagon thanks to the popularity of the X3 and X5. Therefore, no big inventory surplus to unload.
Also, the last thing BMW needs is a slow seller coming right back to them in 3 years! So BMWFS jacks up its interest rate on this wagon to discourage leasing it.
BMWFS would rather have you BUY IT!!
If you come at BMWFS with an all cash offer or with a promised loan in hand for invoice or even slightly less, you can come away happy.
To summarize, BMWFS want to sell you the wagon and will deal fairly with you for it. They do not want you leasing it and having it returned to them in 3 years so they will offer you a very high interest rate to discourage it.
Call it "consumer manipulation." :shades:
FRANKFURT (Reuters) -- First-half net profit at Volkswagen's premium unit Audi rose 67 percent to 679 million euros ($926.9 million) after a rise in revenue to record levels, the company said today.
CEO Rupert Stadler said the company had established a sound base for strong results in the second half of the year as well.
"We will end 2007 with record figures, not just for vehicle sales and production output, but also for the key financial ratios," he said in a statement releasing the interim report.
The company aims to sell 1 million units next year and eventually boost deliveries to customers to 1.5 million vehicles by 2015.
Last year, Audi brand sales rose to a record for the 11th consecutive year, gaining 9.2 percent to 905,188 vehicles.
TagMan
From what I understand, representatives from Tata Motors are already in London trying to iron out a deal.
Tata Motors is India's largest passenger automobile and commercial vehicle manufacturing company. I was surprised to learn that it is also the world's 5th largest commercial vehicle manufacturer.
I wonder what effect Tata Motors would have on Jag and LR.
TagMan
Resale values won't be a significant enough issue with either car. The Jag has taken most of its big hit already. And you will pay more for the Lexus up front. In the end, you'd be fine with either.
With regards to style and appearance, I am partial to the Jag, of course... but I think most of your personal friends would tell you the same thing.
Consider that if you were to keep either of the cars for quite a while, which one would retain classic styling... the Jaguar, without a doubt. The LS430, while a handsome car, isn't generally recognized for its styling, while the LS460 which has replaced the LS430, has thankfully provided some improvement in that department.
And, just in case it matters to you, the fuel economy will be better in the Jag as well, due to its all-aluminum body.
Again, you should be fine with either choice. Good luck.
TagMan
When you have to leave the country to get prosperous news, you got issues!
DrFill
In my area it looks like the premium for a CPO from Lexus is only about 3K, but I would be hard pressed to find a nice 2004 LS in the KC area in the $30-34 range, even without nav and non CPO.
I am just more comfortable buying from a good Lexus dealer, which we have here. Very easy to work with. I have bought two there so far and each time it was a good experience.
Your next step is simply to find a couple of good cars and test drive them. See if you can keep them overnight so you can really get a feel for each of them. Good luck and keep us posted.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
I honestly have to say that I am not in the same league as you .
I did not see that rational but holy molly you are absolutely correct . Now it makes sense.
No wonder, here in Florida seems that no dealers have 535xi wagon in their inventory.
Toward the end of June I spoke with the BMW internet manager close to my home ( 25 miles ) , he said if I order the 535xi wagon now I should get it by Christmas. SIX MONTHS
Now I understand , do not order a wagon. " Consumer Manipulation ".
I will skip getting a Bimmer altogether and get instead the redesign Lexus LS 460.
Thank you again
Lou
What about THAT, Mr. H.G. Powers?
TagMan
DrFill
In fact maybe it wasn't a great cash deal considering it was a demo. The percentage discount off MSRP was in the low teens.
And this deal was based on Canadian MSRPs which are significantly higher than US MSRPs. And please dont ask me about invoice pricing since BMW invoice pricing is not publicly disclosed in Canada. :lemon:
So you are interested in a LS460? I guess HP can be quite persuasive in talking people into buying Lexuses. Keep up the good work HP.
I could never figure out the reason why people keep on buying Volvos or Saabs :confuse:
Until now :surprise:
Good to know there is some Honda solidarity here. :shades:
In fact Honda is such a sensible company that sometimes it can be too sensible for its own good.
Honda is so sensible that they are still pondering on why a V8 is required when a V6 is good enough (not even on a pickup). So sensible that they dont want to waste money on a RWD Acura sedan platform.
And far too sensible to price the exotic NSX back in 1990 at exotic prices (it was a relative steal of a bargain back then ).
Having said that, I know for sure you meant nothing by that comment.
Nah, that's your way of handing out congradulatory kudos. :P
You can't ignore the resurgance of Audi here in the States, doc. You're in the car biz, so you should've seen it coming. Audi will have 1M units or more next year because, as you put it, they're building cars people want to buy.
The new A4 and it's 3 variants and A5, the expansion of the Q7 lineup, a new A8 in the last quarter of next year, a freshened A6, a possible appearance of the A7 just in time for it's new Munich rival, the CS(whatever the heck they're going to call it).
You want to place a friendly wager on it Philip?
I've been buying Accords to commute back and forth to the city everyday since the 1990 model. It's just a joy to see a company build cars that people actually like to come back to a buy again and again.
Will be getting the '08 just as well if the diesel is readily available and depending upon it's performance.
And yes, the NSX was a relative bargain in '90. A reliable, easy-to-drive-as-a-Civic, easy to obtain and maintain supercar? Who'd thunk it?
They fell flat on they're face as the new one doesn't seem to garner much more attention than the S60, which is 6 years old. And stuffing a V8 into it just made things worst, especially since it performs where the German and American V-6's start at.
Doc,
a very good prescription indeed. But that can be done with an Audi too. :P
I dont think the diesel Honda with a 2.2 l diesel will be a great performer but it will definitely be a frugal fuel saver. I am interested in the diesel Accord more for its frugality and am interested in a BMW diesel more for its frugal fuel efficient high performance.
Swap the word Audi in that sentence with MB then I wouldn't laugh as hard. Make the word BMW/Lexus/Infiniti/Acura then I'll stop laughing.
Until now
LOL.
In one of my recent posts I mentioned the way they market Volvos (and Saabs) is to reinforce the idea that the Volvo (or Saab) buyer is smarter than the non-buyer (of Volvo (or Saab)).
That kind of advertising/marketing has a strong appeal to the buyer that likes to have a self-perception of himself/herself as being an intellectual.
Therefore they see it as a "smart" idea to acuire a Volvo or Saab... whether it really is or isn't doesn't actually matter because the buyer has figured out how to rationalize and legitimize and intellectualize the acquisition.
Go figure.
TagMan
Mr. H
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
"Hpowders": alias: "H.G.Powers" : alias "Mr. H" has convinced a fellow poster NOT to get a BMW and got him to choose an LS 460 instead!
For this serious mea culpa, I can lose my Florida posting license!
Oh... the humanity!!!
I never thought I'd see this day! :sick:
Nah, that's your way of handing out congradulatory kudos.
Take a bow, Hemi.
I hope you can hear applause from across the pond. :surprise:
When the Audi lineup can outsell the Lexus RX, I'll owe you a hearty handshake! :P
DrFill
Uh oh... maybe I'd better get out of Dodge for a while. :surprise:
TagMan
I knew Lexus was a magical company, but 960,000 RX's in one year? Good Lord, they must have the pace of Noah to create and sell that many.
I hope you meant to phrase and word that in a different way, please tell me you did.
And aren't the RX sales, e'hm, down this quarter? Darn those Koreans!!!!!!