"Just wanted to point out that I don't have a complex about my truck. I am very confident in my truck purchase. If the transmission falls out tomorrow, I still will have no regrets. It would be the only one of many Ford trucks that would have had any problems during my ownership."
You have been royaly spanked and humiliated on the "frame torque" issue. Anyone with an iota of common sense engineering immediate saw through your smokescreen of babbling, incoherent posts. Now your tactic is to ignore me. That's certainly alright by me. If "ignorance is bliss" cory is in nirvana!
Glad you found a way to amuse yourself, because "your" posts are only here for our pure humor. Just say the word Tundra and we all are amused for the day!
import robbie.Doesnt.Know.Trucks.*;
public class robbieHasNoIdea; {
if (word == tundra || robbiewellwenbaum) { output += " Laugh Real Hard "; } else if (robbiewellwenbaum == questionsAnswered) { output += " Miracle just happened "; } else { output += " Robbie Wellwenbaum is too stupid to answer and is all mouth ";
return (to.Intelligent.Conversation);
}
What is really funny is that you are too stupid to see how humorous your own posts are.
I think you spend too much time standing at attention. Your brain is lacking oxygen.
"You have been royaly spanked and humiliated on the "frame torque" issue."
do you realize that you're the ONLY one who feels this way? i have not seen anyone else post anything about cory having flawed logic. no one else has challenged (in a civil and scientific manner) what cory has explained about torque applying to the cross-members in a very minimal fashion - that torque is essentially negligible. like i've said in the past, i'm not a mechanical engineer, but i have taken engineering courses that closely relate to this topic and what cory has stated is exceptionally logical to me. further, it makes a lot more sense to me than, "Anyone with an iota of common sense engineering immediate saw through your smokescreen of babbling, incoherent posts." that statement comes across to me as dodging the issue. i like to think i have an "iota of common sense engineering" and to me, what cory posted was neither babbling or incoherent. that's just my honest assessment.
i do appreciate your civil response to post #25. no, i don't think you could persuade me otherwise. but, if you care to explain your position, using OBJECTIVE data and with the assumption that you're comparing a comparably equipped, fully functional Tundra vs. Silverado, i'd love to see what you have to say. as i said before, there are two reasons why i stipulate fully functional. one, if anyone buys a lemon of either vehicle, of course it's a worthless comparison. two, you have what you claim is a flawless (except for the clock position) tundra, and i have what i consider a flawless silverado. so let's talk about those...
timothy, i replied to your similar post in 2168. bear in mind...as you are trying to be humorous (i assume) be careful of criticizing a situation when you're really not contributing to a solution...
rob, over on 2168, post #143, you stated: "I will admit that chevy and dodge are equal with good and bad points. The Tundra is superior to both in quality, fit-n-finish and overall utility."
by quality, i'm assuming you mean that you're more likely to buy a non-lemon tundra than you are a non-lemon chevy. a point that we'll most likely never agree on...so drop that one. same with fit-n-finish...don't think we'll ever "come to jesus" on that one either.
but overall utility is one that's worth discussing. in your opionion, how does tundra have better overall utility than the big 3?
Yes, the intent was humor and, I hoped, the step-back-a-minute-and-take-a-deep-breath that seems to have happened -- at least the flames seem to have receded for the moment. I have nothing else useful to anyone to contribute right now.
I have watched and, yes, participated in, such angry exchanges in other topics (over in Vans mostly) and found them almost entirely counterproductive. However, the experience helps me to understand how easy it is to get dragged into such endless arguments.
This and like forums over here were actually useful to me when I was recently considering which pickup to buy. I am Japanese design/quality/reliability biased, but really like the F-150. The discussion swayed me away from the Tundra for several reasons including the lack of serious/valid complaints about the F-150 (other brand adherents can be counted on to bring those up if there are any!), the not-quite-full-size of the Tundra, and the interior space differences. I am now happily driving a left over, but new 1999 F-150 Supercab XLT conversion truck. So, the discussion was helpful to me outside of the tedious, small-point or ego-based arguments (no offense, but I think you know what I mean). Sometimes you just can't really win, because the other person (and maybe we, ourselves?!) will never give in -- instead searching for some thread of correctness to cling to.
On on the awards. The Tundra is MotorTrend's Truck of the year. 4 Wheel & Off Road Magazines 4x4 of the year. JD Powers #1 rated truck in vehicle quality based on fewest defects.Also Toyota's standard powertrain warranty is 5 years or 60,000 miles. Toyota thinks they are building a well made product. Chevy, Ford, and Dodge only have a 3 year or 36,000 mile standard warranty. What do they know about the way they build cars that that you should?
Well, I think that those people who insist that their favorite truck is the best even if it loses the transmission is not showing something objective. All vehicles whether they are "foreign" (if that could be said about Toyota anymore) or "domestic" (if that could be said about Dodge anymore... they were taken over by MB) have good points and bad points with the vehicle. Without getting into specifics, let me illustrate an example of what would constitute a "better" truck than another. If truck "A" blew a transmission, and truck "B" has rattles, than, it would be fair to a good number of people to say that truck "B" is better, all other things being equal. Deal with the BIG issues first before going to the small ones. Much like filling that jar with big rocks before pouring the gravel, sand, and water in... Also, there is no use in comparing quality of past vehicles, especially when they are a DIFFERENT vehicle. That is unfair to the manufacturer and basically condems them to having not evolved their products. I'm sure the Chevy owners wouldn't want the S-10 quality problems to be put on the back of their Silverado's problems. Long Term quality is also relative to the overall vehicle, and one can not accurately anticipate what the LT quality issues with a vehicle may be, even if other vehicles by the same company do well. Bottom line is, because of that restraint, you have to compare features, specifications, customer satisfaction, and, most of all, go drive it and see for yourself. I wonder how many Chevy owners have driven a Ford or a Dodge or a Toyota and vice versa. And one last thing... just because a lot of people buy them, doesn't mean that the product is the best... it MAY be, but, more often than not, it is because it is what most people can afford... otherwise, we would all be driving MB, BMWs, Lexus, etc. Look at the big things first. HP, Torque, rear-axle differential, 4WD to 2WD options, interior room and comfort, gas mileage, and, how it does in REAL life. I can't tell you the number of times I've driven a car that has less hp and torque, but, does better than a car with more either because of weight, the power distribution curve, or a host of other factors... Just my $.02, but, I would like to see if anybody is up to the challenge of taking a step back from what they own or love and REALLY letting it measure up to the competition. It is honorable to see your own flaws and mistakes and one can often better correct them and deal with them when one does that... so why can't that be done with things like vehicles? I think it will help you get a better purchase. What I see in some of these posts are a lot of cognitive dissonance... people wanting to reassure themselves that their purchase was the best one. There is no shame in being analytical.
Good post. One other thing to consider is what one will be using the truck for. If you frequently carry loads of gravel or lumber, a deep bed is called for. If you have a work crew to haul around, cab size is paramount. If you do a lot of off roading, ground clearance will weigh heavier in your decision of what is best. I think this "use test" is missing in most of these discussions.
For my uses, the Tundra is far superior. I tow a 4200 pound boat, haul fishing poles and batteries, store rifles and shotguns or a dog in the back seat, carry enough lumber to build a tree stand once or twice a year, and hopefully, put dead deer in the bed. I drive off road enough to justify a 4x4 and must be able to drive when the weather is bad. I have a strong preference for smooth, quite rides. I want plenty of cup holders for coffee and Gatorade. I want an audio system that holds multiple CDs but don't want to give up storage space. I want something that I can lease for three years and know that I wont have to do anything but oil changes to keep running. I rarely have more than two people in the truck
Basicly, I want a Land Cruiser with a bed. I found it in the Tundra.
Just a comment. All the brands have the 36 month bumper to bumper. The Toys longer warranty is just power train. The power train extended warranties, at least on Fords, is a few hundred dollars at most. It's when you get to the more extensive coverage is when it gets kinda expensive. I just put the new Ford warranty that covers everything but wear items on my '97. Including the surcharge and $0 deductible it was $850(dealers cost) I didn't check but I'd bet the powertrain would have been around $2-300.
Hyundais must be best, they have a 100,000 mile warranty.
volkswagens and (i think) saturns too. i know when my wife was looking at a used jetta, it had 40k miles on it, but 7 years or 60k of warranty left. maybe the saturn is 6/60, i can't remember...
cliffy, sounds good, man. my reasoning for buying my chevy? biggest thing was the big extended cab. i knew that if i was getting a pickup that cost that much money, i'd have to be able to keep it for awhile. so, room for kids became the issue. not sure if it was propaganda or not, but i remember reading somewhere before purchasing my chevy, that the 'rado ext cab was the only full-sized ext cab truck that will hold a child seat on the rear bench. not sure, i'm sure i'll get some replies on that one. besides that, i wanted a big, powerful engine to haul the boat i daydream of getting (after i pay off my truck of course) and to haul lumber, brick, etc when i get a house next year. reliability was next. i've owned domestics and imports. gmc never let me down. nissan did - three times (it's now gone - for another gmc). i learned to drive in a honda civic, and that was a great car. god knows i beat the snot out of it! fuel economy was a biggie. chevy was best there too. great gas mileage for a 5.3L. next was style and "curb" appeal. didn't like the "big rig" look of dodge. really didn't like the "taurus with a bed" look of ford. tundra looks like a ford with different badges to me... chevy has that classic look to me. i liked it. overall size wasn't an issue. my truck will probably rarely see the inside of a garage. the interior of the chevy was perfectly appointed for me. everything was in the right place. fit nice and looked nice. lots of little niceties like drl disable, automatic headlights (that can also be disabled), tow/haul mode, abs, 2nd gen airbag, and passenger airbag that can be disabled if you don't like the person next to you! plenty of aux power outlets for radar detectors, cell phones, etc. ergonomically, i'd say it's perfect for me. center console is cavernous. great sound system (though i may invest in a powered bazooka tube for a little more bass in the future). got it for $365 over invoice. delivered to my home. and...prob'ly the biggest disqualifier for the toyota was that it was still in it's first year of production. a personal no-no for me. chevy was in year 2 and the '00s i test drove at the dealer were great. so i ordered one just the way i wanted it. all in all, a truck that was perfect for me, and has yet to let me down (11k miles and counting)...
In regards to utility. My dream truck would be a crew cab with an 8 foot bed but only as long as a regular cab shortbed. It would be quiet and powerful, use no gas and turn on a dime. I know that's impossible and there are compromises to acheive the best mix of both for your needs. The Tundra definitely fit my needs and wants best. If the chevies I looked at had driven well without defects, I would have been more inclined to have bought one. I understand you don't agree with me that the 2000 Silverado's have lots of problems, but personally I think they do. That's my OWN conclusion from talking to owners, reading posts and driving brand new Silverados. That doesn't mean My conclusions are yours and I fully support your right to make up your own mind as I have mine. Also, if my Tundra transmission fell out tomorrow, it would make a huge difference in my perceptions of it's quality, unlike some blind big-3 loyalists! P.S. My 2 year old has a large carseat that we use in the back without any problem
I think you're right on VW. Mitsubushi too??? Try getting power windows, heater cores, wheel bearings or anything not internally lubricated repaired under a "powertrain" warranty.
In answer to the question on towing, the Tundra is excellent. With a 4200 pound boat and trailer, it is very stable even at highway speeds. I can maintain 75 to 80 MPH with the overdrive off and the RPMs are right about at 3000. Acceleration is fine and there is minimal sway. Mileage sucks but that is to be expected. I get 10 MPG on long trips with speeds ranging from 45 to 80 and only mild hills.
The truck is a 4x4 and I have never had a problem pulling it from steep or wet ramps. I can live without a limited slip differential. In all honesty, I don't really see the purpose for that feature but I know this will generate an argument.
I think your last post is what you felt but it's why you get attacked. The big three owners have been saying Toy has its share of problems(past rust issues and head gaskets. Current vibrations and loose rear door latches) and you ignore them but you hear about Big 2 problems and they all suck. I actually like the Tundra even though on my test drive it had problems. But at up to $31,000 I could never justify that truck. Now at near invoice AND Toy incentives and a selling price of near $25000 it's worth looking at.
Still, a $500 over deal on a Super Duty 4X Crew Cab (full four doors), V10, XLT, 5 speed was under $29,000.
Toyota is pretty liberal with what it considers powertrain. Aside from the obvious stuff, the book specificly tells you it covers the oil, water and fuel pump, seals, gaskets, front hub and bearings, CV joints, and everything else connected to turning the tires. All this coverage is for 5/60K
I count my lucky stars for having no major problems with my Toyotas. But I've seen them die and sent to the great hi-way in heaven after passing it around my family. We tend to pass down older vehicles to the younger members of our family! ha! They can't afford new ones yet.
In fact I think the way you use (abuse) your vehicle has something to do with them lasting longer.
As far as I know we've only had to unfortunate vehicles. My grandma's Corsica blew up. Good thing nobody was hurt. And my aunt's Corvette just didn't work right. She managed to get it replaced. She buy's a new Vette every year anyway.
i just wanna echo what cliffy said and tip my hat to youbetcha...who was a catalyst in the whole thing. congrats to all on, i think, almost ten whole civil posts in a row!!! woohoo! pat yourself on the back.
bama - this is what i meant by "ideological differences". i changed my name, i'm changing my tone...
rob...you and i feel essentially the exact same way about two different vehicles. it's THAT simple. LOL!!!
So let me get this straight. The Ford gets bad gas mileage and the Dodge gets average gas mileage??? Since when was bad better than average? You'll be hard pressed to find anyone who truly thinks that a Dodge gets better mileage than any other truck, even the Tundra. Dodge's are gas hogs. They consistently get significantly worse mileage than the EPA rating. I'll pick apart some of your other points later, well according to my opinion. Good post overall, though.
I can agree that the Toyota is a good truck and has it's place in the market. If it didn't, nobody would buy it. I fully agree with Cliffy1 for the first time. He stated what I think all the big three owners have stated with much dissention from the Toyota crowds. People buy what they like and what works best for their need, but none of us can claim our trucks are any more reliable than another. It is a mechanical device and man made. It will break unexpectedly and inevitably at some point. In spite of what someone posted, I don't have blind loyalty. My point with what I said about if the transmission fell out tomorrow, I would not regret my purchase, was to point that I have had so many Fords that had no problems, I am due to have one that does. Like I said before, all truck makes will have problems eventually. That said, why not stick with the truck make that I like the best, fits my needs the best, has been the most reliable for me, and is best priced for what I get (in my opinion).
Just because a Toyota owner disagrees with my truck choice doesn't make either truck a bad truck. I only started in on the Toyota crowd because I tire of hearing about how much better the Toyota crowd thinks their trucks are in quality and how poor quality they think the domestic trucks are.
what would you buy - a Lexus or a Hyundai? Now I know that since the Tundra is a new model, it does not have a track record, but and this is a big BUT, Toyota as a manufacturer has a much better reputation for reliability than Chevy. Maybe someday Chevy will be mentioned in the same breath with Toyota but it will take years.
Im not big on those damn awards i just quoted a magazine article. Those magazines are totally based on opinions (motor trend 4 wheeler). But as you stated toyota only has 3 awards right? Silverado has 25? Big difference dont ya think?
It doesnt say which awards. Its a magazine advertisement with the new 2500 HD (tims future baby) playing in the mud and it is refering that the 1500 won 25 awards and this truck will continue that tradition.
looks like some good info here. thanks again for all the objective input. for those interested, i'm going to get a line-x utr spray-in this afternoon. i'm taking a digital camera and will take as many "in-process" pics as they will let me. i'll post them sometime tomorrow and let you all know where they are.
inhaling that stuff will get you higher than any beer. And don't get any on that camera...but you know that one already...and watch the hand on the tailgate...
Well, I will say this about awards... all the awards in the world won't prevent your vehicle from breaking down, getting killed or wounded in an accident, etc. What matters is how the vehicle performs in real life over a duration of time and what the opinion of those who use them are. Many awards are granted based on a one time appearance, some trip through the Rocky Mountains, or in some kind of race/obstacle track. Now, in the software industry, companies award themselves and create publications, reviews, etc. to back it up. There is software out there that gets hundreds of awards each year... but, how does that matter? I think reviews are more useful. Real-life experiences are the best. You see the good and the bad with those. As for Toyota being better than the BIG 3, I have to say that in terms of the psychology instilled in workers and their manufacturing responsibility, Toyota and Honda are second to none. I can say that after many years of study and many plant visits. However, in terms of trucks, I don't think that there is any FULL size competitor for the BIG 3, so, it would be hard to "assume" that the Toyota is somehow superior... especially given the track record of the BIG 3 trucks, which, to date, are far superior to that of their own cars. However that doesn't mean that the Toyota truck is garbage either... it just needs time to see how it performs in the real world and to see what difficulties, if any, will appear in the next several months or couple of years.
fyi, i've averaged just over 15, with highs of 18.5+ and two lows of about 12.5. both the lows came on tanks where at least 3/4 of the time was 4-hi...
I get consistently 16.5 with a mix of back roads and highway driving. When towing, I get exactly 10. I have yet to do a highway trip without the trailer but my guess is I would end up somewhere near 18. This is with a V8 automatic 4x4.
Comments
come on over to my site...he's afraid to come there anyway!
- Tim
"Just wanted to point out that I don't have a
complex about my truck. I am very confident in my
truck purchase. If the transmission falls out
tomorrow, I still will have no regrets. It would
be the only one of many Ford trucks that would have
had any problems during my ownership."
If "ignorance is bliss" cory is in nirvana!
import robbie.Doesnt.Know.Trucks.*;
public class robbieHasNoIdea;
{
if (word == tundra || robbiewellwenbaum)
{
output += " Laugh Real Hard ";
}
else if (robbiewellwenbaum == questionsAnswered)
{
output += " Miracle just happened ";
}
else
{
output += " Robbie Wellwenbaum is too stupid to answer and is all mouth ";
return (to.Intelligent.Conversation);
}
What is really funny is that you are too stupid to see how humorous your own posts are.
I think you spend too much time standing at attention. Your brain is lacking oxygen.
"Are too!"
"Am not!"
"Are too!"
"Am not!"
"Are too!"
"Am not!"
"Are too!"
"Am not!"
"Are too!"
"Am not!"
"Are too!"
"Am not!"
"Are too!"
"Is not!"
"Is too!"
"Is not!"
"Is too!"
"Is not!"
"Is too!"
"Is not!"
"Is too!"
"Is not!"
"Is too!"
"Is not!"
"Is too!"
"Is not!"
"Is too!"
"Is not!"
"Is too!"
"Is not!"
"Is too!"
"Is not!"
"Is too!"
"Is not!"
"Is too!"
"Is not!"
"Is too!"
"Is not!"
"Is too!"
"Is not!"
"Is too!"
Very edifying....
do you realize that you're the ONLY one who feels this way? i have not seen anyone else post anything about cory having flawed logic. no one else has challenged (in a civil and scientific manner) what cory has explained about torque applying to the cross-members in a very minimal fashion - that torque is essentially negligible. like i've said in the past, i'm not a mechanical engineer, but i have taken engineering courses that closely relate to this topic and what cory has stated is exceptionally logical to me. further, it makes a lot more sense to me than, "Anyone with an iota of common sense engineering immediate saw through your smokescreen of babbling, incoherent posts." that statement comes across to me as dodging the issue. i like to think i have an "iota of common sense engineering" and to me, what cory posted was neither babbling or incoherent. that's just my honest assessment.
bco
bco
i replied to your similar post in 2168. bear in mind...as you are trying to be humorous (i assume) be careful of criticizing a situation when you're really not contributing to a solution...
my $0.02
bco
"I will admit that chevy and dodge are equal with
good and bad points. The Tundra is superior to both in quality, fit-n-finish and overall utility."
by quality, i'm assuming you mean that you're more likely to buy a non-lemon tundra than you are a non-lemon chevy. a point that we'll most likely never agree on...so drop that one. same with fit-n-finish...don't think we'll ever "come to jesus" on that one either.
but overall utility is one that's worth discussing. in your opionion, how does tundra have better overall utility than the big 3?
bco
I have watched and, yes, participated in, such angry exchanges in other topics (over in Vans mostly) and found them almost entirely counterproductive. However, the experience helps me to understand how easy it is to get dragged into such endless arguments.
This and like forums over here were actually useful to me when I was recently considering which pickup to buy. I am Japanese design/quality/reliability biased, but really like the F-150. The discussion swayed me away from the Tundra for several reasons including the lack of serious/valid complaints about the F-150 (other brand adherents can be counted on to bring those up if there are any!), the not-quite-full-size of the Tundra, and the interior space differences. I am now happily driving a left over, but new 1999 F-150 Supercab XLT conversion truck. So, the discussion was helpful to me outside of the tedious, small-point or ego-based arguments (no offense, but I think you know what I mean). Sometimes you just can't really win, because the other person (and maybe we, ourselves?!) will never give in -- instead searching for some thread of correctness to cling to.
Peace. And I really hope there is Peace! :-)
I would like to know some opinions on this. Toyotas trucks haven't shown a great reliability record. strange that they only have stats up to '95.
What do they know about the way they build cars that that you should?
Without getting into specifics, let me illustrate an example of what would constitute a "better" truck than another. If truck "A" blew a transmission, and truck "B" has rattles, than, it would be fair to a good number of people to say that truck "B" is better, all other things being equal.
Deal with the BIG issues first before going to the small ones. Much like filling that jar with big rocks before pouring the gravel, sand, and water in...
Also, there is no use in comparing quality of past vehicles, especially when they are a DIFFERENT vehicle. That is unfair to the manufacturer and basically condems them to having not evolved their products. I'm sure the Chevy owners wouldn't want the S-10 quality problems to be put on the back of their Silverado's problems.
Long Term quality is also relative to the overall vehicle, and one can not accurately anticipate what the LT quality issues with a vehicle may be, even if other vehicles by the same company do well. Bottom line is, because of that restraint, you have to compare features, specifications, customer satisfaction, and, most of all, go drive it and see for yourself. I wonder how many Chevy owners have driven a Ford or a Dodge or a Toyota and vice versa.
And one last thing... just because a lot of people buy them, doesn't mean that the product is the best... it MAY be, but, more often than not, it is because it is what most people can afford... otherwise, we would all be driving MB, BMWs, Lexus, etc.
Look at the big things first. HP, Torque, rear-axle differential, 4WD to 2WD options, interior room and comfort, gas mileage, and, how it does in REAL life. I can't tell you the number of times I've driven a car that has less hp and torque, but, does better than a car with more either because of weight, the power distribution curve, or a host of other factors...
Just my $.02, but, I would like to see if anybody is up to the challenge of taking a step back from what they own or love and REALLY letting it measure up to the competition. It is honorable to see your own flaws and mistakes and one can often better correct them and deal with them when one does that... so why can't that be done with things like vehicles? I think it will help you get a better purchase. What I see in some of these posts are a lot of cognitive dissonance... people wanting to reassure themselves that their purchase was the best one. There is no shame in being analytical.
For my uses, the Tundra is far superior. I tow a 4200 pound boat, haul fishing poles and batteries, store rifles and shotguns or a dog in the back seat, carry enough lumber to build a tree stand once or twice a year, and hopefully, put dead deer in the bed. I drive off road enough to justify a 4x4 and must be able to drive when the weather is bad. I have a strong preference for smooth, quite rides. I want plenty of cup holders for coffee and Gatorade. I want an audio system that holds multiple CDs but don't want to give up storage space. I want something that I can lease for three years and know that I wont have to do anything but oil changes to keep running. I rarely have more than two people in the truck
Basicly, I want a Land Cruiser with a bed. I found it in the Tundra.
Hyundais must be best, they have a 100,000 mile warranty.
bco
sounds good, man. my reasoning for buying my chevy? biggest thing was the big extended cab. i knew that if i was getting a pickup that cost that much money, i'd have to be able to keep it for awhile. so, room for kids became the issue. not sure if it was propaganda or not, but i remember reading somewhere before purchasing my chevy, that the 'rado ext cab was the only full-sized ext cab truck that will hold a child seat on the rear bench. not sure, i'm sure i'll get some replies on that one. besides that, i wanted a big, powerful engine to haul the boat i daydream of getting (after i pay off my truck of course) and to haul lumber, brick, etc when i get a house next year. reliability was next. i've owned domestics and imports. gmc never let me down. nissan did - three times (it's now gone - for another gmc). i learned to drive in a honda civic, and that was a great car. god knows i beat the snot out of it! fuel economy was a biggie. chevy was best there too. great gas mileage for a 5.3L. next was style and "curb" appeal. didn't like the "big rig" look of dodge. really didn't like the "taurus with a bed" look of ford. tundra looks like a ford with different badges to me... chevy has that classic look to me. i liked it. overall size wasn't an issue. my truck will probably rarely see the inside of a garage. the interior of the chevy was perfectly appointed for me. everything was in the right place. fit nice and looked nice. lots of little niceties like drl disable, automatic headlights (that can also be disabled), tow/haul mode, abs, 2nd gen airbag, and passenger airbag that can be disabled if you don't like the person next to you!
bco
P.S. My 2 year old has a large carseat that we use in the back without any problem
In answer to the question on towing, the Tundra is excellent. With a 4200 pound boat and trailer, it is very stable even at highway speeds. I can maintain 75 to 80 MPH with the overdrive off and the RPMs are right about at 3000. Acceleration is fine and there is minimal sway. Mileage sucks but that is to be expected. I get 10 MPG on long trips with speeds ranging from 45 to 80 and only mild hills.
The truck is a 4x4 and I have never had a problem pulling it from steep or wet ramps. I can live without a limited slip differential. In all honesty, I don't really see the purpose for that feature but I know this will generate an argument.
Still, a $500 over deal on a Super Duty 4X Crew Cab (full four doors), V10, XLT, 5 speed was under $29,000.
In fact I think the way you use (abuse) your vehicle has something to do with them lasting longer.
As far as I know we've only had to unfortunate vehicles. My grandma's Corsica blew up. Good thing nobody was hurt. And my aunt's Corvette just didn't work right. She managed to get it replaced. She buy's a new Vette every year anyway.
bama - this is what i meant by "ideological differences". i changed my name, i'm changing my tone...
rob...you and i feel essentially the exact same way about two different vehicles. it's THAT simple. LOL!!!
bco
In spite of what someone posted, I don't have blind loyalty. My point with what I said about if the transmission fell out tomorrow, I would not regret my purchase, was to point that I have had so many Fords that had no problems, I am due to have one that does. Like I said before, all truck makes will have problems eventually. That said, why not stick with the truck make that I like the best, fits my needs the best, has been the most reliable for me, and is best priced for what I get (in my opinion).
Just because a Toyota owner disagrees with my truck choice doesn't make either truck a bad truck. I only started in on the Toyota crowd because I tire of hearing about how much better the Toyota crowd thinks their trucks are in quality and how poor quality they think the domestic trucks are.
If we are all past that, now we can talk trucks.
Ryan
Ryan
may all your beers be cold and bottomless...
bco
Dean
Who won??? Take a wild guess.
First place goes to GMC
Sorry tundra guys maybe when you make a bigger truck (3/4 ton) you can be included
Ryan
As for Toyota being better than the BIG 3, I have to say that in terms of the psychology instilled in workers and their manufacturing responsibility, Toyota and Honda are second to none. I can say that after many years of study and many plant visits. However, in terms of trucks, I don't think that there is any FULL size competitor for the BIG 3, so, it would be hard to "assume" that the Toyota is somehow superior... especially given the track record of the BIG 3 trucks, which, to date, are far superior to that of their own cars. However that doesn't mean that the Toyota truck is garbage either... it just needs time to see how it performs in the real world and to see what difficulties, if any, will appear in the next several months or couple of years.
truck (3/4 ton) you can be included"
I didn't make my Tundra...maybe some of the Tundra builders own Tundras. Naw, they probably all drive chevy Silverados!
Let's make a new topic:
Any owners work at the plant where their truck was made?
You are making no sense
Ryan
I know what i said why wouldnt that make sense toyota doesnt have a 3/4 ton truck
Ryan
just gettin good again. please don't mess it up.
...red
truck (3/4 ton) you can be included"
My comment on the above post was that it sounded as if we make our own trucks. That thought led to the idea for a new topic:
"Do any owners work at the factory that built your new truck?"
bco