Are automobiles a major cause of global warming?

avalon02wh

I meant to say more nukes per capita in France, but I had a senior moment. :sick:

avalon02wh

Results 1 - 10 of about 32,200,000 for global warming
Results 1 - 10 of about 10,000,000 for Peak oil.
Results 1 - 10 of about 75,400,000 for britney spears.
Results 1 - 10 of about 9,600,000 for swine flu

And over at the oildrum they are talking about putting square pegs in round holes.... it is even related to cars and GCC....
http://www.theoildrum.com/node/5667#more

gagrice

OK, what is your definition of green? I would consider sustainability to be a key part of being green. Fairness...tread lightly....

Living green would be perfect harmony with nature and our fellow man. A utopian concept that is impossible attain.

I cannot think of a group in history that survived in that fashion for very long. Some other group always comes along and kills or chases them off.

For me I try to live a light green comfortable life with as little waste as possible without going to extremes.

oldfarmer50

"....bureaucrats have done a mighty fine job..."

Here in NY the Encon officers (Encon is our version of the EPA) are now manning speed traps on the highways. I guess they figure if they stop enough speeders sooner or later they will catch someone smuggling toxic waste in the trunk of their car.

Of course the extra money from fines has nothing to do with it. :sick: (note sarcasm icon)

oldfarmer50

"...Many believe the Indians lived a very green life..."

If by green you mean that native American peoples didn't until recently drive SUVs I would agree but if you think they somehow treated the environment better than anyone else, I disagree.

Native American villages were basicly large garbage and septic pits (think modern refugee camp). They had neither the time or resources to care for the environment. When a village became too polluted or disease ridden they simply moved to another area and left mother nature to clean up the mess. Frequently, to clear land for crops or to drive game they would set fire to entire forests.

You mentioned not killing more buffalo than they needed. Did you know that the native people would often drive thousands of buffalo off cliffs just to use a few?

The Indians weren't evil capitalists trying to rape the earth. They were poor desperate people living under extreme conditions. They did what they had to do to survive. While their spiritual belief systems paid homage to many earth forces they were no more green than anyone else.

ruking1

This is far from being new news but

..."Californians today are having to re-learn what Native Californians were well aware of in managing the landscape - fire is an integral part of California."... (bold my sic)

link title

Not sure if it reaches the other 49 states or world news but we are currently having ... fires.... The talking weather heads are saying the obvious that unprecedented CQQL (summer) weather is actually helping to surpress factors that would help the fires further along. There is no real word yet on the ratio of naturally "set" (sic) or human set causes either arson or accidental.

stever

Not sure if it reaches the other 49 states or world news but we are currently having ... fires....

I used to paddle with a guy from Boulder Creek so this latest fire caught my eye.

Good link - we've bought plants from Las Pilitas Native Plant Nursery listed in there.

ruking1

California declares emergency as wildfires spread

stever

If you saw my post 6090 in here, you know I can relate....

ruking1

Well yes !!

This natural release of "C02" and unmitigated widespread and WIDE scale emissions from burning has been NATURAL and ongoing for literally thousands of years that we can interpolate.

iluvmysephia1

Yes and the cheap food also causes us to drive more. I find myself frequently going out of my way for Taco Bell's double-cheesy beef burritos which are $0.99. Very addictive

I find that when driving in crowded Tucson and I just have to have a Taco Bell double-cheesy beef burrito, I will drive a few extra miles until I recognize a landmark that takes me to a familiarly-located Taco Bell. The fast-food places have most of us by the shorthairs, GW or not, pollution-contributing or not. Tucson's street-engineering doesn't exactly lend itself to gas-savings. One way's that have to be one-way's and U-turns are used all over the place. It's a city of U-turns.

Delicious and affordable and very addictive, indeed, eh? :shades: I often have them throw an order of Nachos and a caramel-apple empanada in my bag, too, in order to further contribute to artery-sclerosis....sic....ness.

Burp.

oldfarmer50

"...I just have to have a Taco Bell double-cheesy beef burrito..."

Shame on you, polluting the environment in your fancy Lancer while you satisfy your evil carnivore nature. Not to mention that you're taking up extra space as your waistline spreads. :mad:

Fortunately, the fat police will soon be coming to your town. They'll legislate your greasy burritos right out of existence. Many places here in NY are already banning trans fats from all prepared food (unless you are a large corporation, then you're exempt).

Who knows, once we tear down the Taco Bells we might get around to force marching you on a treadmill...all for your own good mind you. :sick:

gagrice

Sadly not all places are blessed with great Mexican food on every corner as we are in San Diego. I cannot imagine eating in a Taco Bell with all the great little Mexican restaurants in our town. We fortunately only have one fast food restaurant, a Carl's Jr and 7 Mexican restaurants. Makes me hungry thinking about it. Maybe I should go have a giant egg, cheese, ham and potato burrito for breakfast.

No beans to avoid any GHG. :shades:

ruking1

...""Greedy, greedy, greedy," Fong said of the union's members"

(one rank and files perspective from an air line union)

As BART strike looms, commuters fume

stever

The proposed four-year salary freeze is a bit much.

ruking1

A billion here , a billion there and the nation wonders why CA is on the brink of bankruptcy??? Yup count me clueless also..... :lemon:

It makes me ask the question, what will be the other 49 states reaction (individually and collectively) when CA asks the FED for AIG/GM type bail out monies?

fintail

A lot of private sector/real world jobs have seen salary freezes for 1-2 years because of the great recession...I see no problem with asking the public sector for likewise.

stever

Widen your horizons (if you can see through the GW haze, soon to be made worse if 320,000 vehicles have to hit the road in the Bay Area Monday morning):

"At least 48 states have addressed or still face shortfalls in their budgets for fiscal year 2010 totaling $165 billion or 24 percent of state budgets. At least 34 states have looked ahead and anticipate deficits for fiscal year 2011."

New Fiscal Year Brings No Relief From Unprecedented State Budget Problems (Center of Budget and Policy Priorities).

California is special but it's not unique, at least when it comes to budget shortfalls.

And a one or two year freeze may be justified, but four years seems to be over-reaching.

ruking1

Our local rag in the process of what investigative newspapers are supposed to do under the first amendment rights (does anybody remember what those are?) had to literally take to court the right to publish the municipalities salary base. It actually got further ugly when they again over massive opposition by the various municipalities unions, they went to court to publish individual classifications !!!

Needless to say, not many make under 100,000 per year. (not including the indirect portion) Now the state commandeered the use of almost 13 M dollars in RDA monies. (paid back later with interest) and the very same managers that are getting the 200,000 ,300,000, 400,000 dollars are heating up the violins.... :lemon:

ruking1

Then at least 48 states continue to ignore the absolutely and utterly obvious. Not for me to get in the way of the will of the majority?...... :lemon:

stever

Citizens demand services and cops, schools, firefighters, libraries and clean air aren't getting any cheaper. There aren't a lot of frills offered over here in Idaho, but even we're busting the budget.

Your tax dollars at work:

Invasive weeds grow with global warming (SFGate.com)

I have an especially good crop of goatheads (puncture vine) this year.

ruking1

Again the most obvious which evidently we have failed to note from HISTORY (more likely continue to ignore) are LOADS of stuff are going to have to go back to plain old AMERICAN volunteerism.

I once lived in a small American town that when the towns (volunteer fire) siren went off, a teacher ( who happened to be a volunteer fireperson, I was in a class at the time) literally RAN out of the building. (we didn't see him till the next day) No one missed a beat.

And no, I was not a foot soldier under General George Washington.

avalon02wh

ENCON you mean DEC right?
http://www.dec.ny.gov/

This is one of those times the end justifies the mean. Should I feel sorry for the speeders - I don't. They are wasting fuel, generating excessive CO2 and being irresponsible. Note the clever tie in to cars and GCC.

I like it. The DEC folks are showing real initiative.

"...someone smuggling toxic waste in the trunk of their car."

Maybe not, but they might just catch a zebra mussel or two hitching a ride.
http://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/32861.html
"Aquatic Invasive Species Eradication Grant Program"

[BNSI] [BNSI]*

* Note the double Bob Newhart Sarcasm Icon.

stever

The local fire department here is a combination department of over 40 volunteers and 30 full-time EMT-I/fire fighters.

Even if they were all volunteers, it costs a lot of money for the trucks, suits, hoses, axes, breathing apparatuses. You can't make those costs go away with platitudes.

We're way off-topic, although I suppose you could budgetary needs in with public health issues like clean water and clean air.

avalon02wh

http://www.co2clock.org/

Not too long before we hit 400 ppm...a few months maybe...

ruking1

Well, let me ask, would it be cheaper or more expensive if those 40 volunteers were each now paid 100,000 plus? Don't forget that fire persons receive full salary when they retire (100%) So really for example to use YOUR example those 30 FT folks are really costing you 60 folks pay with 30 of them not working !!????

stever

Having been rousted a couple of weeks ago by a wildfire that threatened my house and caused the evacuation of 15 households of neighbors (I can see some of those homes from my porch), I'd rather have the entire group of firefighters be full time professionals, at least for structure fires where lives are at stake. Volunteers are well and good, but they have other jobs that demand most of their time.

I'd just as soon pay a bit more in taxes (and thus less in fire insurance), and sleep better at night knowing someone in uniform will wake me up at 5 am if there's a fire. And that person likely isn't your schoolteacher who probably doesn't know my subdivision and probably doesn't have time to take advantage of all the training that firefighters go through.

ruking1

Well it reminds me literally of an old neighborhood's fire department "abalone" scandal, some years ago. Indeed my actual nexus with this fire house: I used to deliver newspapers (11/12 year old boy) to this fire house and literally went into the house EVERY DAY, except Sunday. . Anyway fast forward to the new regime. The station called a stand down and pass off to their dispatch. Seems another house had caught a load of abalone and it was BBQ time. So natch this house went to visit THAT house. Well seems a fire broke out in an apt building on the same block of THIS fire house but on the next street down the block (contiguous) . The upshot is you could have activated a GARDEN hose at the fire house and had water on the fire. So it seems the THAT house also called a stand down and pass off, so the nearest fire truck response had to come from across town which took another 30 mins. Needless to say the apt building was fully engulfed and way before then it was a 5 alarmer. It was so bad that oxymoronically it threaten to take the now silent fire house with it. To make a long story short, these were full time professionals.

Here is an article (obit actually) that mentions it as most would probably think I might be making this stuff up. link title

stever

Yeah, and fire houses have caught on fire now and then too. I'd still prefer the pros to run the fire department.

Of course now, even when they save your house from the fire, it collapses from the acid anyway. :P

Alaska waters acidify at troubling rate (Anchorage Daily News)

"...acidification is happening more quickly and is more severe than in warmer parts of the planet. The cause is absorption of carbon dioxide from the atmosphere..."

oldfarmer50

"...private sector/real world jobs have seen salary freezes..."

At my school they are attempting to freeze the pay of all the workers who earn under $20K a year while giving 4% raises to those earning above $50K a year. Seems they could save more money doing it the other way around.

To stay on topic: We have a Hybrid school bus that costs $20K more and gets 2 extra mpg.

oldfarmer50

"...the end justifies the means..."

I'm less worried about speeders than I am about the potential polluters who could be getting away with murder (environmental speaking) while the environmental officers are doing revenue generation.

oldfarmer50

"...these were full time professionals..."

A small city near me just forced the paid fire fighters to remove the bar from the basement of the fire station. The fire fighters swore that no one ever drank on duty.

ruking1

The Best Used Cars Under $20,000

avalon02wh

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2009-08/nocs-woc081409.php

It would be a bit ironic if warming temperatures destroyed a future energy source - methane hydrates - some of the shallow water resources anyway ...

gagrice

CA could freeze most of the jobs in the public sector for 10 years and the private sector would still be catching up. Civil servants as a whole are over paid and under worked. They should be thankful they still have pensions in their future and lifetime health care.

The state of CA needs to cut about 20% of their employees and get tough on the other 80% to start earning their pay. The tax payers of this state are way over burdened with a totally over bloated state government.

If we cut our legislation in half it would go a long ways in reaching the goals for GHG. That hot Co2 they expel is the biggest cause of GW. :shades:

avalon02wh

http://www.adn.com/24hour/opinions/story/896915.html

"Great rhetoric, but as usual Yu blamed everyone else, particularly the United States, for the world's climate-change problem - even as his own country emits more greenhouse gases than any other nation on earth...."

The author seems to forget that on a per capita basis the U.S. produces far more emissions. The problem with China is that they have over 4 times the population. If they get anywhere near our standard of living/energy use things could get real interesting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population

This one of those issues that will be interesting to watch. I do not see a resolution to this issue.

There is also the issue of:
China’s July Car Sales Rise 70.5%, Most Since 2006
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601080&sid=aos3Nd8AN1LE

gagrice

India is also going at breakneck speed to raise their standard of living. Neither China or India is interested in cutting back on progress. So I agree there is no feasible resolution. If you believe in MM/GW and live at sea level, now would be a good time to think about selling that over priced home and moving to higher ground.

I came close to buying close to sea level on the Big Island. The bank wanted 50% down. Not because of GW. The home is in lava flow zone 1. If you find a place that is perfect with no natural hazards be sure and post. I will check it out.

PS
How much coal energy will it take to provide a refrigerator for all the Chinese and Indian families? Not to mention a car.

stever

I don't think the solutions are going to be incremental but exponential. Stuff like deciphering the human genome takes years and years, until you hit critical mass as it were, and then the little progress chart zooms up off the page.

Take fax machines - the idea was invented in 1846, made practical in 1861, but didn't hit critical mass until the 1980's. The hockey stick went off the map and then mostly died overnight. You can blame Al Gore and his internet for that one too. :shades:

Battery storage is about the only thing related to cars and global warming that's still looks to be in the progress doldrums. But in x years, those Chinese frig's may be running on a 4" solar wafer and emitting nothing. And charging our car batteries.

houdini1

There is a company called eestor or something like that. They have supposedly made a breakthrough on some type of ultra capacitor. It could be a scam though.

oldfarmer50

"...If you find a place that is perfect with no natural hazards be sure to post..."

How about my little farm in upstate NY overlooking the Hudson river? Almost no hurricanes or tornadoes and I'm about 230 feet above sea level so you will have beach frontage when the ocean rises.

In fact the only hazard around here are the cannibals that run NYS government. :sick:

ruking1

Now who would have thought there are shark tanks in Albany?

stever

How far upstate? The NYC food and water riots will get as far as Newberg, easily. :P

Such a pastoral area to have a Storm King Mountain (did they ever get that road reopened along the Hudson there?).

iluvmysephia1

for more on EEStor.

It has the potential to store extremely large amounts of energy in a very small size and weight, that could be packaged into batteries that could propel cars for hundreds of miles. These batteries would have no leakage of current, recharge extremely rapidly, operate over a wide range of temperatures and have an infinite lifetime as they are not subject to degradation as lithium ion batteries are. And if that isn't enough they cost a fraction of what lithium-ion batteries do to produce and depend on a far more abundant natural resource, barite.

http://www.allcarselectric.com/blog/1022286_ceo-of-zenn-motors-eestor-production- - -storage-units-to-be-demonstrated-in-weeks-delivered-in-months

This could be big, large and huge technology input towards effectively running electric cars in a way that benefits the owner/driver as well as the manufacturers. Without thinking about coal-fired electricity energy generation drag-down in action. :sick: Then again, if China doesn't stop producing coal-fired plants to make electricity, what's just so much more evil eminating from U.S. coal-fired plant production? What would Al Gore say about dat? :surprise:

avalon02wh

Back in the 70s they had a bumper sticker in Texas that said: "Drive 70; Freeze a Yankee..."

"Parts of Texas see worst drought on record
The most parched areas of Texas have been wilting in the blistering heat for two years, but only now is it now official: This is their worst drought in recorded history."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32423004/ns/weather/

Will the new bumper sticker be: "Drive 80; Boil a Texan..." They are after all the only state with an 80 mph speed limit. And yes, I am kidding... it would be a bit ironic, however, given their strong anti-environmental stand back then.

Makes a person wonder if extreme climate events like this have an impact on the attitude of folks that live in the drought area as it relates to GCC/GW...

stever

They are after all the only state with an 80 mph speed limit

Utah too.

The Dust Bowl years made a big impact on folks....

gagrice

I think Texans have a legitimate complaint with Left Coast Environmentalists. They like to denigrate the oil and gas industry every chance they get, all the while they are sucking down the fossil fuel they love to hate. Same way Alaskans feel about people from the rest of the USA sticking their nose into situations they are clueless about. Mainly ANWR. A quick fly over of the oil fields in Prudhoe Bay, then onto ANWR will be an eye opener for those that can see. It is the same tundra, rivers and caribou herds. There has been an increase in most wild life since oil was discovered and is being produced. The Caribou use the huge gravel pads built by man to get away from the mosquitoes. There is a symbiotic relationship between the oil business and the caribou herds. Same for the water fowl. A lot less are killed now by hunters as there are more restrictions on the oil leases.

To my way of thinking the only people with a right to complain about TX and AK oil and gas business are those that live totally off the grid. That means no electric, water, sewer, phone, Internet, cars, buses, trains, planes or products that take energy to produce.

houdini1

Good post, I couldn't agree more.

oldfarmer50

"...How far upstate?..."

Far enough upstate that I could swim across the Hudson if I had to. Close enough to Albany and NYC that I can feel their hands in my pockets.

oldfarmer50

"...This is their worst drought in recorded history..."

My state has seen so much rain this summer that they are calling it a disaster area. Any Texan that wants to suck some water out of my fields is welcome.

stever

There has been an increase in most wild life

Not in Prince William Sound where a boatload of Prudhoe Bay oil was dumped. :P

Big ol' Texas is:

#1 in the Emission of Ozone Causing Air Pollution Chemicals
#1 in Toxic Chemical releases into the Air
#1 in use of Deep Well Injectors as method of Waste Disposal
#1 in counties listed in top 20 of Emitting Cancer Causing Chemicals
#1 in Total Number of Hazardous Waste Incinerators
#1 in Environmental Justice Title 6 complaints
#1 in production of Cancer causing Benzene & Vinyl Chloride
#1 Largest Sludge Dump in Country

Someone has to complain - the locals are too sick to. (source)