Are automobiles a major cause of global warming?

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Comments

  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Ah! CA even before it was a state had perpetual battles over H20. Still so. LA LA land would go back to the desert if not for NOR CA water RIGHTS theft... ;)

    Well in olden times (BCE) they used to fight about H20 and NaCL....

    During the hey day of the Roman Empire, they would pay folks in the military partially in salt. This gave rise to the phrase... worth his salt....
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    We probably should start a buyer's remorse discussion around here. That's pretty normal human behavior.

    One thing about taking months (years, even) to buy a new car (guilty), is that you get to savor the anticipation for a long time.

    And then enjoy an even bigger let down. :shades:
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Once you save for the first cash car purchase it is easy from then on out. You get to save all the interest in an account for your next vehicle purchase. Once a car is paid for it no longer emits GHG. :blush:

    Pay cash and save the planet.
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,343
    I heard on the news this morning that the price of solar panels has gone down 40% in the last year or so.

    I hope he didn't put the more expensive ones on his roof. :)

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    If Solar ever becomes competitive with commercial power it will be a good deal. Currently the lease deal larsb has is probably the best deal. Still not competitive with our 13 to 35 cent per KWH tiered pricing. I did check them out for San Diego. Their own calculator showed a yearly loss for me with their installation. I like the concept of leasing as I am not convinced they will last close to their warranty. And those companies come and go with the wind. As long as the lease frees a person from responsibility for the repair maintenance of the panels it should be a safe investment. I would assume the cleaning would be done by the home owner. Depending on the dust in the area and birds the panels will require regular cleaning with warm water and dish soap. Then dried to maintain a good level of energy generation. Once a month should be sufficient in low dust areas.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    I didn't. My lease payment for the panels is $38 a month.,,,,:)
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    My total maintenance requirement and costs will be to hose the panels down TWICE ANNUALLY.

    :)
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    You are so gullible. That will not remove the baked on bird poop. Most PV manufacturers recommend washing with warm soapy water. Then drying with a clean cotton cloth that will not scratch the panels.

    Their calculator estimates my lease at $65 per month with no money down. That is my current electric bill for about 6 months of the year. The bill jumps up drastically for 2 or 3 months in the summer. Last year I averaged just under $100 per month. Thankfully I don't have an EV to kick it into the stratosphere each month.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    My roof does not have a lot of bird poop, thus neither will my shiny hot solar panels. Pigeons spending much time on concrete tile roofs in Phoenix end up with blistery feet....
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Arizona Solar Power
    Panel Cleaning Service

    We will clean power panels with no abrasive cleaning solution and towel dry. Prices range by height of the ladder needed to reach the roof. Call for a free quote.

    Arizona Solar Power Panel Cleaning Service is the best choice when it comes to having your solar PV system cleaned. There is no other company that leaves a long lasting impression on PV glass. We use the latest technology specially made for PV modules. No one in this field offer a cleaning technique as profound as ours. We are striving to become Arizona's leading solar PV panel cleaning provider. With experienced technicians that perform high quality workmanship to give your system a lustrous shine.

    When your system is soiled, it's not performing at its peak efficiency. This means for larger systems, they would loose a greater amount of energy. That means more money spent on local utility power.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    That's a good one Gary..............I have a "panel cleaning service" already, namely my 13-yr-old son....:)
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    That is good. Teach them young how to work and they will not cost you money the rest of your life.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Arizona Solar Power Panel Cleaning Service is the best choice when it comes to having your solar PV system cleaned.

    Another good example of the economic growth possibilities that will be gained by embracing green tech. Fighting global warming is going to save our economy. :)
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,343
    "...$38 a month..."

    That sounds like a good deal. What percent of your regular electric use does it replace?

    I always liked the idea of solar in the southwest with all that sun. It's a less obvious choice here in the northeast where some months are 60% cloudy.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    My "total hybrid payment" which includes the solar lease payment and electricity usage will be $74 a month in the first year, and the lease portion goes up by 3.5% per year.

    ( Electricity payment is only that high because I have about $17 I pay the electric company as a "service fee" each month regardless of electricity usage. Without that fee, this would REALLY put a dent into my costs. )

    So the hybrid payment will go up about $3-$4 per month each year. By 2021 it will be about $120 a month.
  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    Another good example of the economic growth possibilities that will be gained by embracing green tech.

    Sounds like a minimum wage job, if it isn't being done by an illegal alien, or mentally challenged worker-program.

    That job will almost be as good as the people who will pickup and dispose of the dead birds that'll get killed by the windmills. :D
  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    I have a "panel cleaning service" already, namely my 13-yr-old son....

    You should check your local and state laws as they may not look too kindly on you telling a 13-yr old to climb a ladder and go on the roof. If he falls, your guvmint and/or insurance company may not be happy with you.
  • eeeoeeeo Member Posts: 9
    Why did we have global warming in prehistoric times? Must have been the Neanderthals discovering fire...boy this Earth sure would be better if there were no humans. According to the enviro-weenies, man is the cause of everything bad...
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    While this might sound like a good natured ribbing, the fact is it can be financially and DEADLY serious.

    A long time friend who is an architect, has owned his own business for years and in hs/college did construction work to pay his way through college, fell off a roof. (It actually makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand up decribing this).

    Uphshot is he literally shattered one of legs (lower portion). Upshot after many doctor and hospital visits, needed titanium parts and pins. When he goes through an airport they detain him even with Xray and doctors note in hand. He was a lifetime athletic person, golf, tennis, hiking, biking, and now can barely drive an automatic transmission car.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    I'll make him stand on the top ( meaning if he were to slip, he falls into the solar panels and stops himself) and wear a safety harness and of course I will be supervising 100% of the time.

    I'm not going to put my kids in harm's way - never have. They were the only kids in the skating rink wearing wrist guards.

    My daughter is also 10 and a half and still sits in a booster seat because she's still shorter than 4 foot 9 inches, which is where the car seat experts say they need to reach before getting off the seat.

    'Preciate the warning anyway....:)
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Indeed I think the "enviro-greenies" have the perspective totally bas ack wards. If you look at the scientific history of the earth, it has been almost totally VIOLENT and deadly, punctuated by small accents of relative peace. The Sahara Desert was once a marsh. link title It didn't get that way because a bunch of Berbers cooked their food with camel dung. Needless to say, the assumption is the planet is totally verdant with so called natural balance, if not for man mucking it up. Nature, if folks really haven't noticed does most of the mucking up.

    To state the obvious the topical history of CA are (MASSIVE) state fires on the order of every 5 years, that literally consume a majority of the state. MAN/WE unnaturally supress the fires and for mostly logical (to us anyway) reasons. So when you hear of those Hollywood stars places like Malibu Canyon, CA, " burn baby burn" is the NATURAL order of things, as perverse as that may sound. I am sure they worked a deal with agencies like FEMA to have government/s rebuilt at taxpayer's expense. Now this of course can be seen as "perverse".
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Not too many people who are taken very seriously think the the Earf's climate does not of course go through "natural changes."

    Everyone with a half a liter of education knows that.

    What the climate change dispute today boils down to is this:

    "The warming is happening. Are man's activities making it worse? If so, what can be done?"

    That is the 64 Trillion Dollar Question, to which NO ONE knows a definitive answer.

    And until we DO, the debate will rage on.

    Oh, and all you Cali folks better start lobbying for reduced CO2 levels:

    California to see more deadly heat waves
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    "Oh, and all you Cali folks better start lobbying for reduced CO2 levels:

    California to see more deadly heat waves "

    Your last two sentences make my points almost exactly !!!???

    This is absolute BS in light of what even you have said above.

    ..."Everyone with a half a liter of education knows that. "....

    No problem really, just give me the $ 64 T.
  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    "The warming is happening. Are man's activities making it worse?

    You or whomever you're inferring saying this, is presuming that a warming climate is "bad". Since the climate changes naturally, we know it is EITHER going to be warming or cooling. Now I can make the case of how bad cooling would be for the globe.

    I and many people would rather see a warmer Earth, then a colder Earth. The only thing that lives under glaciers are bacteria, and that's exactly what covered Canada and the northern U.S. not so long ago. Goodbye glaciers, hello sunny, warm days, and fun at the beach. :D
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    The ice worm lobby will be knocking on your door in a couple of hours.

    And yes, there really are things known as ice worms that live on glaciers. Who knows, they may hold the cure for cancer. :)

    Chena Hot Springs' normal population is 29.

    "More than a thousand people turned out for the Renewable Energy Fair at Chena Hot Springs this weekend to consider the challenges and opportunities for Alaska.

    When it comes to renewable energy, there's not much of a better setting than Chena. It accurately reflects this year's theme "Sustainable is Attainable." (KTUU)

    1,000 people show up in the middle of nowhere in a Big Oil state to talk about wind and solar. Encouraging. The lure of the hot springs probably helped a little. :)
  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    I can show you millions of people who have moved from northern U.S. states to states like CA, FL, TX, AZ and so forth, who also have a preference. :P

    ice worms that live on glaciers. Who knows, they may hold the cure for cancer.

    They don't have hands ! ;)

    Nothing against renewable energy. In fact I think there are way too many hurdles setup against it. Maybe now that Ted Kennedy's view won't be disturbed, we may get that project in Nantucket Sound going again.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Trying to worm out of the discussion eh? :shades:

    Turns out there's nothing new under the sun. Fax machines are well over a 100 years old. Turns out tidal power and solar power tech is too. Let's see, the first commercial fax was sent in 1861 and it hit critical mass in 1980ish. So we're ripe for solar hitting critical mass.

    A Short History of Bright Ideas (Sierra Magazine)
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Being as how we are on the everything old is new again, how about the phrase "LONG ISLAND EXPRESS". Or how about the Hurricane of 1938?

    pg 40

    There certainly were not 255.7 M passenger vehicles...... nor 3,029,822,000,000 miles driven in a year. (11,849 miles average per vehicle)
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    People used to ice skate on the TN river at Chattanooga too. Then it became a big coal burning foundry town for a long time and the river quit freezing. :)
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Lets see ice skating on the TN River @ Chattanooga pales in comparison to 3,029,822,000,000 miles per year?
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Times they are a changin'. Paradise may be lost with 255 million cars. At least you can't blame it on Mr Peabody. Gotta love John Prine.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyPTIOJuWws
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "Then the coal company came with the world's largest shovel
    And they tortured the timber and stripped all the land
    Well, they dug for their coal till the land was forsaken
    Then they wrote it all down as the progress of man."

    I'm real partial to his duets with Iris Dement.

    "Over there is where I bought my first car
    it turned over once but then it never went far...."
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    But wait.... build it and they will...come !!?? ...

    "In 1989 China had about 90 miles of freeway - in 2008, China had about 40,000 miles of freeway. Compare that to the United States Interstate System, with a total length of 46,837 miles."... link title

    So not much longer till 255.7 M passenger vehicle fleet in China?
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I have mixed emotions about coal. I like electricity and without coal about half of US would be in the dark. As long as we have people blocking Nuclear, Solar and Wind the future is coal. The cleaner the better. We do have a lot of coal in this country.

    Here is Paradise with Iris Dement:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQVpLTbO-QI
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Reality is a hard pill for some people to swallow. My suggestion is move to higher ground if you are worried about rising oceans.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Even the global warma cists who live in global warming creating cities, don't believe global warming is such a big deal....Report: San Jose to grow by 400,000 residents

    Not to pick on San Jose, but I am sure other big metro area cities such as, but not limited to : San Francisco, Seattle, Portland, Boston, Wash D.C., Atlanta, San Antonio, etc project similar growth.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    It is amazing. They are rationing water and still handing out building permits like there is no tomorrow. It has slowed down some with the housing slump. But there are new homes around me being built.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Why Higher Oil Prices Haven't Saved the Solar Industry

    Or why:

    1. a $30,000 each IRS/STATE/LOCAL tax credit/s

    2. installation permit fees waived

    3. power companies to maintain and upgrade the equipment

    4. no increase in property taxation due to solar installation

    5. no changes to property titles due to installation

    6. no restrictive CC&R's due to solar installation

    7. no taxation on solar equipment purchases



    MIGHT make SOLAR cost effective against normally generated electricity and gas.

    Otherwise,... it is not even a thinly disguise raise in energy taxation.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,709
    yep, I agree.

    I have mixed emotions about coal. I like electricity and without coal about half of US would be in the dark. As long as we have people blocking Nuclear, Solar and Wind the future is coal. The cleaner the better. We do have a lot of coal in this country

    I have come to accept the fact that even if we do try and sneak some eco-friendler methods of making energy/electricity than coal-fired plants making electricity for our needs, the Chinese with their amazing economic growth will drown out these efforts on the Big World View of things.

    So, that may as well be our future. Coal-fired electricity plants making electricity to help make our all-electric cars and then coal-fired elelctrical plants to draw energy from to re-charge said vehicles. It's...umm...inevitable and cheaper in the Big Boy Picture of Worldwide Propulsion methods of things.

    Global Warming? Like I say, just mix in with all of the other polluters...I...mean producers and call it good.

    I mean, if the 2006 Pittsburgh Stealers can pull off a total referee-thrown Super Bowl 40 win over the Seahawks and the rest of America, then why not dream large and wide? Rothelschild admits the football never made it over the end zone on that run, huh? There's many more bad calls I'll go over with anyone willing to listen to me about it. Lost Wages and bought-off ref's will be the end of pro sports in this country.

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    That's this year. Wait five more. It's not standing still.

    And guess who the leader in solar adoption is?

    Well, it still may be California, but New Jersey is in second place and rising fast. And we're not talking a spot known for endless sunny days.

    "Worldwide, the top solar country is cloudy, windy, Germany, which receives less sun than the rain-besotted state of Oregon. And the reason that Germany, on a national level, and New Jersey, on a state level, are surprising leaders? It's because they both have passed laws that help encourage the growth of the solar industry and encourage people to use solar power. "

    New Jersey's solar boom: The battle between old and new energy (AOL)
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    I passed on the passive solar heating on pools. I almost could not believe (@ the time) those folks could do a sales presentation with a straight face!!?? FF to 2009, how many of those passive solar companies have survived?

    Essentially I have been waiting 35+ years. ... When I lived in Miami, it literally rained sunshine 10 mo out of the year and the other 2 months... whatever (sun, rain, sun, hurricane season, sun , rain.... ;) . A solar electical unit could have easily run the A/C !!! Almost any thing but SUMMER was heavenly ! There is nothing new in the waiting. If I wait too long (not to be dramatic) I can end up dead, hopefully due to old age and natural causes. So even if I was WILDLY optimistic and didn't care about the cost of installation, government regulations at ALL levels STILL prohibit me from installing one. So the issue is (STILL) absolutely MOOT.

    So for example, almost anything in CA almost literally is required to be built under a PUD. (planned unit development), you will see movement with massive tax credits and the ability for the PUD to be largely off the grid, back up BY... the grid. Untill then...zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz..... No current or future large scale new projects like 500 unit apt projects are either required to have or plan SOLAR !!!!!! This is more than telling.

    Also it really gets down to KWH (kilowatt hour) cost. It is literally all over the map. Larsb says 03 cents per KWH hour in AZ. CA is @ .11+ cents to .44 cents per KWH. I am for buying AZ generated electricity and bee lined here. !!!! It is amazing for as positive as the article you posted was, not a peep about NJ's cost per kilowatt hour.

    Also next to nobody compares the cost to something like oil (per barrell) gal of RUG to PUG and/or D2. I did one against D2 and SOLAR even at 3x the cost of D2, it was ZZZZZZZZZZZ's ville !!??
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    With all the MAJOR problems our country has, what is so amazing to me is the time and money spent by our politicians on the tiny little problems that may not even be problems.

    1. Possible global warming
    2. Making sure carbon dioxide is a pollutant
    3. Trying to prosecute patriots retroactively
    4. Haggling over the 9-1-1 memorial
    5. Carbon credits
    6. Card check
    7. Printing everything in 10 languages

    The list is endless...and meaningless.

    Why can't we get just one good Presidential candidate who will espouse some of the things that are important and will help save the country.

    1. A fair and simple tax system
    2. Term limits
    3. Tort reform. You sue someone and lose, you pay their defense costs.
    4. Fight wars to win
    5. Politicians found guilty of serious crimes while in office...life without parole.

    That will do for a start !!

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Well in todays convoluted way of communication that would would be complexly simple. ;)

    AKA we like it simply complex :lemon:
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,588
    You can't get that candidate because in a defective two party system, the same interests control who becomes a candidate for either side. Some people want the cost of doing business to be so high in the western world that even more is moved away to aid in the consolidation of wealth.

    And to address the political whine...."patriots"? Cheney and his gang of chickenhawk coward war-mongers are as much "patriots" as Sarah is a Nobel-winning economist or Barry is a four-star general. Please. American justice has operated in an ex post facto world of hypocrisy for decades. Nailing this scum to the wall is nothing to cry about. And regarding the wars...fight them for the US, not for its parasitic experimental state.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Let me get this straight. In the name of cutting GHG and using less energy our brilliant Congress mandated the use of CFL Bulbs that are only made in China. The State of CA has mandated Solar energy to replace fossil fuel generated electricity. And China has become the major supplier of solar energy cells. When will our government start mandating solutions that will put our citizens back to work instead of costing US jobs?

    Sadly the US once on top of the PV market is now a bit player. 5 of the 10 largest suppliers are now from China. US, Japan and Germany being the biggest losers.

    http://www.pvsociety.com/article/316017-U_S_China_Taiwan_Gain_Ground_in_Solar_Ce- ll_Market.php

    This Congress even took our condom manufacturing business and gave it to China.
  • autowriteautowrite Member Posts: 226
    How much wasteful machine pollution goes into stamping auto bodies in North American IUnited States, Canada & Mexico)? A mechanic at a Ford dealership said that the supplied steel comes from Japan. So North America is not wasting energy producing it. One thought to ponder is that all North American vehciles (American, Canadian & Mexican) are all Japanese due to their steel source.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    That is a marvelous idea for all those so unfortunate in having to depend on mass transit. I still have nightmares of my one trip around Oahu in the city bus. Every sort of human creature came on the bus. I was on the around Island trip of about 4 hours. Many of the dregs of society would stagger on and fall into people's laps. Or fall asleep over on the shoulder of some poor soul that just did not know how to handle the situation. Arrest them, fine them and dip them into a disinfectant bath. Second offense send them out to break big volcanic rocks into small ones.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    It is really hard to understand, as they have open and public showers right on Wakiki !!??
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