Are automobiles a major cause of global warming?

gagrice

You see some really filthy people wandering the streets of our cities these days. I am wondering if the bus drivers will carry a Smell-o-Meter?

larsb

of it.

You guys are so full of it.

You trying to keep the old "stinky homeless people are the only riders on city buses" stereotype alive is just a joke.

It's comical, actually.

It's like a bad stand-up routine.

And like most stand-up routines, it's FAR from reality.

ruking1

Perhaps it is you that are divorced from reality. There are folks (in this county) that pan handle enough money to get on the longest bus ride and sleep on the bus as long as possible or until the driver kicks them off for lack of paying the return fare.

gagrice

The homeless are not the only people with poor hygiene. Did you look at that poll taken by the paper. I think it was up to 18k votes with 82% that had encountered people with bad BO on their bus ride. I think that BO could be a GHG and the possible cause of GW. :P

PS
62% are in favor of the law.

oldfarmer50

"...inherently vague..."

If the ACLU doesn't like vague laws that depend on individual perceptions how come they never challenged "sexual harassment" laws that depend ENTIRELY on an individuals' perception? Did you know that LEERING is a crime?

I supose if you can lose your job over body LANGUAGE, you could go to jail for body ODOR. Such is the brave new world we live in.

oldfarmer50

"...I am wondering if the bus drivers will carry a Smell-o-Meter?..."

I could use one of those on my school bus, some of those kids are disgusting.

gagrice

It could be attributed to the water shortage in parts of the USA. Sorry kids no shower this month. We are conserving water. Personally I do not know how people survive without a shower every day. That is more important to me than 3 meals.

oldfarmer50

"...it's FAR from reality..."

I think I mentioned before how when my kids rode public transportation (a few years before they could drive) they found the bus to be full of racists and crazy people. THAT was reality.

However, they never said anything about B.O. :sick:

iluvmysephia1

my wife and I were discussing the usage of bath towels. She mentioned that some people use the same towel multiple times during the week. Umm...they do? :confuse:

I don't know about you guys but I come from the school of hygiene in which we were taught...or I just [non-permissible content removed]umed anyway...that one uses a fresh towel for every bath/shower. And that bath/shower ought to occur once a day. Maybe it's just me on this one, though. I spose the size of a person's family could dictate otherwise on this BO etiquette game, eh? :P

gagrice

What a subject, yet it does have overtones of conservation. Have you been to any hotels lately where they have signs asking you to reuse your towel if staying multiple days? The issue of course is water conservation. Supposedly in some CA water districts, water is only supposed to be served IF the customer asks. I can tell you the tip diminishes if my water glass is not kept full. I drink a lot of water every day and with every meal. NO soda for me.

wda

Most people I know use a towel for about a week. So I assumed most people do too. And a person should be clean when one finishes a bath or shower, so the towel shouldn't get too dirty. If it doesn't get dirty, whats the point of wasting water and electricity to wash it?

stever

All things in moderation. If you bathe too frequently you will remove the natural oils from the skin causing dryness. link

Whose side are you on?

Verizon Is Getting Heat For Sponsoring Anti-Global Warming Rally (Business Insider)

gagrice

I should switch from AT&T to Verizon. Can you hear me NOW!

Oh, I can't I am on the free Pioneer plan with Sprint.

stever

Can you hear me NOW!

Yeah, but I can't see you, between the smog and the fire smoke and the junk the hurricane is blowing around. :P

In case you missed it, BP Finds Large Oilfield in Gulf of Mexico, Could Yield 3 Billion Barrels (Straightline)

gagrice

Yes I read that report on the find. Did not see the size. Too bad they are not digging exploratory wells off the coast of Florida, before the Cubans get to it.

We have not gotten any of the smoke. Some thunder storms today from the Hurricane. Sadly we did not get any rain. Maybe tomorrow. Hanging around 95 degrees, kind of hot and humid. Had to run the AC today at 35 cents a KWH. And those bums are asking for a raise to cover their liability due to causing fires.

Two agencies in CA that are worthless. The CPUC and CARB.

rgould22

Boy are these posts getting way off topic. :confuse:

gagrice

Not sure which post you are referring to. The price of electricity is a direct result of CA believing that man is causing CC or GW. They have passed laws mandating alternatives that either do not exist or are being blocked by other legislators. The fires probably cause more GHG than all the cars in CA combined for years.

oldfarmer50

"...hotels...where they have signs asking you to reuse your towel..."

If you saw what was on the sheets, you'd never worry about a dirty towel again. :surprise:

iluvmysephia1

eewww I think I know what you mean! :sick: :shades:

rgould22

"usage of bath towels" is a little far from "Are automobiles a major cause of global warming".

iluvmysephia1

it is?

gagrice

For the 2009 summer, the average temperature of 71.7 degrees F was 0.4 degree F below the 20th Century average. The 2008 average summer temperature was 72.7 degrees F.

Half truths are not enough. I can tell you that this has been a cool summer in So CA. We have had very few days that the temperature has exceeded the Normal mark. Most of the summer has been well below normal. Same for Precip. We have not had a drop of rain since about February or March. And NOAA says we are above normal. Again their testing and location for test points is very suspect in my mind. Stretching the truth to satisfy their bosses that are tied to the Congress like a puppy on a leash.

http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2009/20090910_summerstats.html

Thankfully Cap n Trade is on the back burner for now. Maybe we can vote out the GW Cult in 2010. Bring back some common sense to the debate.

houdini1

Not by Fire but by Ice....

ruking1

For folks that do not follow programs on THE HISTORY CHANNEL, reference the so called "little" ice age and its far reaching consequences, and the fact we have much more to fear (if you disavow Roosevelts statement, "we have nothing to fear, but fear itself") from harmful sun spot activity, meteors and volcanos.........................

gagrice

US planning to weaken Copenhagen climate deal, Europe warns

Exclusive: Key differences between the US and Europe could undermine a new worldwide treaty on global warming to replace Kyoto, sources say

Europe has clashed with the US Obama administration over climate change in a potentially damaging split that comes ahead of crucial political negotiations on a new global deal to regulate greenhouse gas emissions.

The dispute between the US and Europe is over the way national carbon reduction targets would be counted. Europe has been pushing to retain structures and systems set up under the Kyoto protocol, the existing global treaty on climate change. US negotiators have told European counterparts that the Obama administration intends to sweep away almost all of the Kyoto architecture and replace it with a system of its own design.

The issue is highly sensitive and European officials are reluctant to be seen to openly criticise the Obama administration, which they acknowledge has engaged with climate change in a way that President Bush refused to. But they fear the US move could sink efforts to agree a robust new treaty in Copenhagen.

The US distanced itself from Kyoto under President Bush because it made no demands on China, and the treaty remains political poison in Washington. European negotiators knew the US would be reluctant to embrace Kyoto, but they hoped they would be able to use it as a foundation for a new agreement.

If Kyoto is scrapped, it could take several years to negotiate a replacement framework, the source added, a delay that could strike a terminal blow at efforts to prevent dangerous climate change. "In Europe we want to build on Kyoto, but the US proposal would in effect kill it off. If we have to start from scratch then it all takes time. It could be 2015 or 2016 before something is in place, who knows."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/sep/15/europe-us-copenhagen

We can hope Obama gets his head out of the sand and scraps the whole scam. Maybe someone pointed out to him that Cap n Trade could further destroy our fragile economy.

gagrice

Obama Admin: Cap And Trade Could Cost Families $1,761 A Year

The Obama administration has privately concluded that a cap and trade law would cost American taxpayers up to $200 billion a year, the equivalent of hiking personal income taxes by about 15 percent.

A previously unreleased analysis prepared by the U.S. Department of Treasury says the total in new taxes would be between $100 billion to $200 billion a year. At the upper end of the administration's estimate, the cost per American household would be an extra $1,761 a year.

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/09/15/taking_liberties/entry5314040.shtml

This is not on an escalating scale based on income. It is a direct tax on utilities that will be passed along to the consumer. It will fall mostly on the backs of electric consumers that use electricity generated by coal. Which is currently 51%. Our bills are already astronomical because the state fines utilities that have not reached the mandates on alternative. A little scam cooked up in Sacramento. They mandate alternative energy, then block the building of wind farms and solar energy projects.

gagrice

A solar minimum is when the amount of spots on the sun is at a low and the reverse is true for a solar maximum. The complete solar cycle is about an 11-year process. Perry says the current solar minimum could continue into 2010.

"There's a fair chance it will be a cooler winter than last year," Perry said.

Perry said there is a feeling from some in the scientific community the Earth may be entering into a grand minimum, which is an extended period with low numbers of sunspots that creates cooler temperatures. The year without a summer, which was 1816, was during a grand minimum in 1800 to 1830 when Europe became cooler, Perry said. Another grand minimum was in 1903 to 1913.

Perry said there is anecdotal evidence the Earth's temperature may be slightly decreasing, but local weather patterns are much more affected by the jet stream than solar activity.

However, Perry said snow in Buenos Aires and southern Africa, the best ski season in Australia and a cooler Arctic region are some of the anecdotal evidence for a cooling period.

So, Perry said, sunspots may have a far greater impact on weather than previously thought.

Perry is a proponent of the cosmic ray and clouds theory as opposed to the CO2 global warming theory to explain recent global warming trends.

The cosmic ray and clouds theory was first put forth in the late 1990's by Danish physicist Henrik Svensmark.

In a July 2007 issue of Discover magazine, Svensmark said the theory is simply that solar activity can alter the amount of clouds in the atmosphere, which affects the temperature of the Earth. More clouds mean a cooler Earth because more of the sun's heat is being reflected. Fewer clouds equal a warmer Earth.

Perry says data indicates global temperature fluctuations correlate to a statistically significant degree with the length of the sunspot cycle. Longer cycles are associated with cooler temperatures.

http://www.cjonline.com/news/local/2009-09-20/earth_approaching_sunspot_records

ruking1

And not only that... Where were the GWC'ers when space "debris" splattered Siberia @ an altitude (est 3 to 6 miles up) in 1908 ??link title

It literally destroyed 830 miles of pristine (I woud assume) Siberian forests. It is was totally "naturale", if not a more infrequent occurence.

stever

In the 70's I heard or read something about the lack of clouds in an earlier era (turn of the prior century iirc). The comment was that clouds were so unusual that painters made a special effort to include them in their paintings (otherwise all the old masters stuff would all have cloudless skies for the period in question).

Every time I tried to bring the topic up with an art student or art historian, they looked at me cross-eyed though. :shades:

I suppose some grad student could look at a bunch of art like this and make some suppositions about cloud cover over the decades.

ruking1

Ah are you suggesting someone's PH'D thesis in say .... Art History:

GWC A Comparative Analysis Through The Ages: Modern Interpretive Linguistic Idioms:

YO Leonardo? Da, Da Vinch man.

gagrice

Make mine Monet'

oldfarmer50

Larsb has been taking a ribbing because of his support for public transportation but I was reading in the paper that the light rail system near him has proven to be a success.

It seems the Phoenix light rail was expected to draw 26,000 passengers each day, mostly commuters. In fact ridership has exceeded 33,000 boosted by tourists and week-end party goers traveling downtown.

So in this case it seems public transportation has been embraced by the riding public. Very good.

The article didn't say if the system has broken even on costs. Does any one know that info? Larsb?

ruking1

To be fair, public transportation makes a lot of sense under specfic scenarios. What has totally gotten out of hand (in the majority if not ALL US systems) are the costs to support it and the "corruption" that results; given the fact that a county or municipality is/has been already saddled with it. FARE BOX recovery should be the truest measure of its success or failure. Since it is barely mentioned in most places that is almost critical code for: it has been a woeful failure.

larsb

Oh, no, I doubt it will never break even on costs. It cost 43 million dollars per mile to lay it down. It uses a LOT of electricity.

They need to tie the light rail into a solar array somewhere and start paying for their electricity that way. That would help the operating costs a lot.

In the USA, I don't think the self-sustaining public transit system has yet been created.

But streets and highways are not self-sustaining either.

They still all serve an important purpose in our society.

gagrice

But streets and highways are not self-sustaining either.

Hold on just a minute. If the 70 cents per gallon we pay for gas in CA was used to maintain and build new roads it would more than cover the cost. The state steals that money to pay for all sorts of non highway programs, including mass transit.

Caltrans officials expect the deterioration will continue despite a $20-billion transportation bond measure approved by the state's voters in 2006.

Officials predict that at current spending levels, more than a third of all state highway miles will fall into disrepair by 2017.

"We've got a system now that is getting old," said Caltrans Director Will Kempton. "We used to have a fairly new system. . . . You'd come in from Nevada and you could notice the difference in the roads. California was at the top. Not any more."

Poor pavement contributes to traffic congestion on busy highways because motorists tend to slow down on rough surfaces, Caltrans officials say. Also, rough roads can damage tires, rims and suspensions, leading to breakdowns, which add even more to traffic congestion. Damaged pavement costs the typical motorist from $500 to $700 a year for repairs, according to studies by Caltrans and the American Highway Users Alliance.

Caltrans' goal is to have no more than 10% of the highway system in disrepair at any time. Yet, by 2007, distressed lanes had reached 26% of the state's total highway mileage.

Helping to accelerate the decay is the advanced age of the freeway system. As much as 90% of California's freeway network was built between 1955 and 1970 and had a design life of 20 years, said John Harvey, a civil engineering professor at UC Davis.

Because money available for repairs has fallen far short of the need, Caltrans has been making temporary fixes, such as asphalt patches, instead of using longer-wearing concrete that lasts 40 years. Over the long run, officials say, temporary fixes can end up costing taxpayers twice as much as a permanent repair.

There is plenty of gas tax dollars. They just get tossed into the general fund and wasted on pet projects. Including high speed commuter trains that will more than likely never see the light of day. We need to include the wasted gas tax dollars in the Tea Party agenda.

PS
That is why I own a heavy duty SUV that guzzles gas. Only safe thing to drive.

euphonium

The state steals that money to pay for all sorts of non highway programs, including mass transit.

WA does the same to subsidize the ferries and other mass transit projects.

How do we get state governments to spend the fuel tax collected from road users to be applied 100% to roads?

Ferry patrons only should pay for getting to their chosen island and or remote dwellings that are too far from work for them to drive. :mad:

stever

And shall we make all the bridges around Seattle toll ones?

gagrice

The San Diego to Coronado bridge was toll until it was paid for. They have taken tolls a few times for upgrades and maintenance. Seems fair to me that those that use a special road or bridge should pay. The gas tax is supposed to maintain the roads and bridges. As long as they are all up to snuff the excess could be put into mass transit. It seems like it works the other way around. We have fancy buses and trolleys while our roads are in horrid condition.

houdini1

They need to tie the light rail into a solar array somewhere and start paying for their electricity that way. That would help the operating costs a lot.

I hope you are kidding about that. You want to subsidize a solar array so the light rail, which is also subsidized, won't cost so much to operate? I am glad that you have a sense of humor !

BHAHAHAHAHA !!!!

stever

Long before we had bridges, we had ferries. Why cut the few remaining ferries off at the knees just because some of the more desirable spots still don't have bridges?

And even better question :shades: - what about global warming? What's worse - 1,000 cars driving over a long bridge every day or twenty ferry trips a day belching bunker oil fumes?

gagrice

I was actually on the ferry to Coronado more than I have crossed the bridge. I went every day with my job at Pac Telephone in the 1960s. A much slower more pleasant time for me. I think the ferry was private and profitable.

I thought climate change was on hold until they could find countries to foot the bill. Something about wanting to help Africa reduce their carbon footprint. You know those folks living in mud huts with no electricity or running water. I thought that was the plan by Al Gore. Get US to all move into caves and destroy the evil power plants except near his palace in TN.

houdini1

Global warming? Don't you mean climate change? :shades:

larsb

Solar is only subsidized ONCE then it's done.

stever

Most ferries, since the early days (like, back before the Revolution) were given monolopy rights by the states or local governments. (one NY example)

It's funny that you like them since you don't like waiting around for a bus. Ferries are fun now and then but hours of operation are so limited, they'd be a bit of a pain to depend on. Especially compared not to buses, but compared to the 24/7 availability of bridges.

gagrice

It's funny that you like them since you don't like waiting around for a bus.

I was in my company truck paid by the hour. Then I could get out of my truck and stand up on the upper deck and have a nice ride to the island. Make my deliveries and then catch the next ferry back. Very relaxing. Nothing like riding a stinky city bus loaded with horrid people that have not bathed for a year. The 1960s were very pleasant in San Diego. No GW cult preaching gloom and doom.

stever

Now try it on your own time and not on the clock.

Hey, I bet if we stretch, we can blame the two quakes on GW too:

"But the storm – which reduced visibility to 100 metres in some areas – was part of a series of freak weather conditions that battered Australia: heavy rains lashed Adelaide in the south, where streets flooded.

Then as morning dawned two tremors shook Melbourne. Later in the day hailstones as big as cricket balls pelted parts of New South Wales.

In Queensland, firefighters battled a string of blazes as the unseasonally dry weather stoked the flames." Seeing red: worst dust storm for 70 years sweeps east Australia (Guardian UK).

More notable is that the first few hits about the story didn't reference global warming or climate change at all, although this one does. (Christian Science Monitor)

gagrice

The reason GW was not mentioned is it would come around to slap them in the butt. This is a condition that has happened since forever. There have been dustbowls and droughts since Bible times. Hard to blame them on cars. It could have been caused by all the construction building the Pyramids. That took a lot of heavy equipment. :shades:

Climate changes, cope or die is my thinking. Don't build in a creek bed or a fault line. Stay away from a high probability lava zone. If you live in a flat place expect a lot of wind and nasty storms.

gagrice

Enough is enough. My wife says the gray rough toilet paper they tolerate in the EU is bad news. Hopefully Obama will not sell US out on that essential.

Environmentalists Seek to Wipe Out Plush Toilet Paper
Soft Toilet Paper's Hard on the Earth, But Will We Sit for the Alternative?

"It's like the Hummer product for the paper industry," said Allen Hershkowitz, senior scientist with the Natural Resources Defense Council. "We don't need old-growth forests . . . to wipe our behinds."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/09/23/AR2009092304711_- pf.html

The recycled toilet paper I have seen is slick and you know what that means. :sick:

gagrice

Honda unveils 'Segway-style' unicycle that travels in any direction you want

This is pretty slick for city slickers. Probably less total CO2 than riding a bike. watch the video.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1215741/Honda-unveils-Segway-styl- e-unicycle-travels-direction-want.html

avalon02wh

"...that he holds a doctorate in economics, not in atmospheric science or climatology; that he has never been assigned to work on climate change..."

"In the interview Thursday, Dr. Carlin admitted that his report had been poorly sourced and written."

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/25/science/earth/25epa.html?_r=1

So much for the whistle blower... The last thing we need is economists and their voodoo trying to tell us about climate.