Are automobiles a major cause of global warming?

1128129131133134223

Comments

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    They are still melting, only now they are a secondary source of toxic pollution. Yahoo News.

    My links just showed that the people cutting the checks to run the factories don't think it's all about mpg or style or hp. There's a nod there to global warming as well. As long as the scientific journals keep cranking out global warming articles every day about potential climate problems looming over us, some people are going to pay attention and not just make a blanket sweep of the issues under the rug.

    Three textile references in a single sentence - sweet. :shades:
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    Very impressive article, however he pulled his punch at the end when he cautioned that "more study is needed to see if the "speculation is all true or not".

    Sounds like an appeal for more "funding" to me....without anything but speculation to back it up.

    I actually think that some of these guys would attempt to prove that the moon is made of green cheese if someone would just "fund" the "research". It would probably keep them busy for years. ;)

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Forget science funding. The real money is being spent on "Darth Vader public relations".

    Local authors take on climate change deniers (Vancouver Free Press)

    Good article on funding reform:

    Britain's Nobel winner condemns science funding reform (Guardian)

    And here's what happens when you don't fund research:

    Is Russian science healthy? (Physics Today)
  • bpraxisbpraxis Member Posts: 292
    After the Berlin Wall fell in 1989 the displaced communist intellectuals have found a new home in the Green movement where they can attack the high achiever's with impunity. Back to the cave for the masses.

    One average volcanic eruption would create more pollution and warming than the last 100 years of human activity.

    Now if we could just get Al Gore to place a large cork in the next Volcano before it erupts.

    The ingenuity of the human mind will create a pristine environment if we let it. The profit motive is limitless for someone to create a device to scub the atmosphere maybe with a vanilla scent.
  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    One average volcanic eruption would create more pollution and warming than the last 100 years of human activity.

    Well that may be exaggerated a little until some supervolcano like Yellowstone erupts, but certainly all the ongoing volcanic eruptions, especially subterranean, release much more gases than mankind does. Also there is a tremendous amount of organic matter that decays each year. The numbers are that mankind's total emissions of CO2 are a few percent in addition to natural releases.

    In general though you are correct, that people who tend to want centralized control of everyone, are going to look to organizations and causes that allow them to gain control. I believe that many people will use whatever means (embellishing the likelihood of a theory) to get laws passed to gain wealth and power for their political and personal gain.

    It's a version of the thought-process whereby some smart tribe-member realized that he could convince others that he had knowledge of the forces of nature and the gods, and was a witch-doctor. This thus allowed the witch-doctor a place of prominence and no-manual-work life, leeching off others. GW cultists similarly are using the unknown and unproven, to scare and control a basically uneducated (on the changes and power of nature) press and populace, to control them.

    I'm sure you see this genetic flaw in people everyday - people who aren't content with just running their own lives, but have to butt in to everyone else's affairs and try and run other's lives. The words - bully and politician, come to mind.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I was thinking homeowner's association president. :shades:

    Cough China: 10 Million Cars Built cough.

    "Eight models, including BYD's F3 dual-mode electric car, have received production permits, paving the way for China to have 500,000 green cars on the roads by 2011."
  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    I was thinking homeowner's association president.

    Those are amongst the worst. ;) Keeping people from drying clothes on their clothes-lines; making us use more electricity for dryers!
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Gary HAPPY, AlGore huddling with his evil minions:

    Americans No Longer Swallowing Global Warming Dogma

    The deniers making headway? Perhaps.....
  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    Did you see this part of your link larsb?

    "Save the Planet: A new book states that if you want to save the planet, it's time to swap that pet cat or dog for a rabbit or a chicken.

    New Zealand professors Robert and Brenda Vale write in their new book, "Time to Eat the Dog: The Real Guide to Sustainable Living," that keeping a medium-sized dog has the same ecological impact as driving a Toyota Land Cruiser more than 6,000 miles/year. They say a cat causes the same environmental impact as driving a Volkswagen."

    Do you think Cap n' Trade CO2 credits are going to have to be applied to the average American pet owner, with environmental problems like that? :P I can just see fathers all over the country having to explain to their 5 year old sons and daughters, that they can't have a cat or kitten because this brilliant man Al Gore and his friends believe Spot or Kitty are destroying the world. :D
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Eat your dog and get a pig instead. The carbon footprint of a pet dog is equal to my Sequoia.

    All you enviro types with a pet dog are not helping the GW situation.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Obama needs to BBQ that dog they have or just quit babbling about my SUV.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,709
    BYD's got my attention with their new BYD e6 all-electric car that is supposed to deliver an all-electrically-propelled ride getting 249 miles on one charge. Supposed to sell for about $28,000USD. It is to go on sale in about a year from now in the U.S.

    This is from the Company that Warren Buffett has bought 10% of. They have a very bright and committed to success CEO. One would have to be burying their head in the sand to avoid learning about them. Green may be a good thing to this SE Arizona padre. ;)

    AFAIK the BO $7,500 "green car" rebate applies to the 2010 BYD e6.

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I guess you saw the profit that Warren has made on paper with that investment?

    Chinese Automaker Investment Pays Off for Buffett (AutoObserver)

    I still don't know how all those batteries are going to get recharged without making the sky look like a bumper car arena with all the power lines gridding everything up. Until I can charge one off the grid, I guess I'm not going to get too thrilled about eCars.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,709
    Nissan is one Company that is committed to the U.S. market in allaying U.S. carbuyers fears in buying all-electric cars. Phoenix-Tucson is one market that is going to get a whole bunch of charging stations for all-electric carbuyers to use that buy any brand of all-electric car. Truth that be. Very cool and breezy truth that be.

    There will be an outlet for you. Pardon the possible pun. I am very interested in the 2010 BYD e6 but I'm one of those that will wait and watch how others are doing with these all-electric cars before I buy.

    My wife and I have put 45,000 miles on our 2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS since March of 2007. But those are 45,000 gently added-on miles, friends. This car could last us another 8 years...at least. :P

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    24 city tour coming soon, including your neck of the woods:

    Nissan Schedules Leaf EV National Tour, With Test Drive Opportunities (Green Car Advisor)

    image

    (you're giving me great segues for posting site content - keep it up. :shades: )
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,709
    Dec.30th-Jan.5th for a close-up look of the new Nissan Leaf. Phoenix-Tucson would be my ticket, then. Might want to gander a look during those dates, just for a fun-at-a-distance-type-of-a-thing.

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Who in their right mind would go for Cap n Trade if it means giving up a Cheeseburger now and then? Or in Obama's case $100 per lb steaks? This bunch of Loonie Toons get more ridiculous by the minute. No wonder he is distancing himself by not speaking on CC at that meeting in Copenhagen.

    People will need to turn vegetarian if the world is to conquer climate change, according to a leading authority on global warming.

    In an interview with The Times, Lord Stern of Brentford said: “Meat is a wasteful use of water and creates a lot of greenhouse gases. It puts enormous pressure on the world’s resources. A vegetarian diet is better.”

    Direct emissions of methane from cows and pigs is a significant source of greenhouse gases. Methane is 23 times more powerful than carbon dioxide as a global warming gas.

    Lord Stern, the author of the influential 2006 Stern Review on the cost of tackling global warming, said that a successful deal at the Climate Change Conference in Copenhagen in December would lead to soaring costs for meat and other foods that generate large quantities of greenhouse gases.


    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article6891362.ece

    They could cut GHG a lot by denying oxygen to every politician and their lackey scientists.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    .
    Myth of Cooling Globe shattered by AP-sponsored ‘blind’ test

    Researchers claiming to have found the Earth could be entering a cooling cycle may have gotten their facts wrong, according to a recent independent study.

    The Associated Press commissioned a study from independent statistics professors to analyze figures without being told what they represented.

    University of South Carolina statistics professor John Grego, along with David Peterson, retired from Duke University, Mack Shelley, director of public policy and administration at Iowa State University and Edward Melnick from New York University were asked to look at sets of numbers pertaining to climate trends.

    Each professor was given two spreadsheets. One contained annual global temperature changes from 1880 to 2009 obtained from the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.

    The second spreadsheet contained annual temperature changes from 1979-2009 taken from scientists at the University of Alabama.

    After their analysis of the raw data, none of the experts reported a decline in temperatures over time.

    In an October 9 BBC News story, climate correspondent Paul Hudson noted that the warmest year on record was not in 2008 or 2007, but in 1998.

    The story goes on to state that no climate increase has been measured over the past 11 years, although emissions of carbon dioxide continue to rise.

    The BBC story cited experts who claim that although the world has gone through decades of rapid warmth during the 20th Century, the earth operates on natural climate cycles, which man has no control over.

    Additionally, experts have long debated whether the spikes in warming have been attributed to an increase in the Sun’s energy and that warming causes a rise in carbon dioxide levels, rather than the other way around.

    "If you look at the data and sort of cherry-pick a micro-trend within a bigger trend, that technique is particularly suspect," Grego told the AP.

    "The last 10 years are the warmest 10-year period of the modern record," said NOAA climate monitoring chief Deke Arndt. "Even if you analyze the trend during that 10 years, the trend is actually positive, which means warming."

    The independent analysts found that there was no significant drop in climate (temperatures) in the past 10 years.


    So the confusion continues......
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    So the confusion continues......

    Isn't that exactly what the opponents to global warming intended?
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    So the consensus is the warmest year in the last few decades was 1998. The last 11 years have been cooler in spite of the fact that CO2 levels have risen. That to me is conclusive evidence that CO2 is NOT the culprit. If CO2 increases are the cause of GW we should see a warming not flat or cooling. I think the scientists on the UN and US dole are scrambling to keep the money flowing. If CC becomes the non issue that it should be they would all be in the unemployment lines with the rest of the folks.
  • alltorquealltorque Member Posts: 535
    In an October 9 BBC News story, climate correspondent Paul Hudson noted that the warmest year on record was not in 2008 or 2007, but in 1998.

    Let's not get carried away here. Paul Hudson is actually the BBC Weatherman for Lincolnshire and East Yorkshire..........an area that you could lose in most US States. To call him a "Climate Consultant" is stretching credibility more than just a little. Even the local news anchor man takes him to task most evenings over his far from accurate daily forecasts.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    "POPPYCOCK"....

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Which part?

    These were just two spreadsheets given to a couple of math guys who were told "analyze this using statistical analysis and tell us what you find."

    Can't get more unbiased than that.
  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    After their analysis of the raw data, none of the experts reported a decline in temperatures over time.

    The burden of proof is not to prove that the Earth is cooling; the burden of proof is that the Earth is warming; AND that the warming is man-made. ;) I don't see where this link of yours has the statisticians quoted on either.

    I think the article is intentionally ignoring that what was statistically analyzed is not the answer to the question of man-made GHG's and global-warming.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Can you find the official climate thermometer in this picture?

    image

    Read On
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    One point of data among thousands does not invalidate the data.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    That is the point. Iit is a large percentage of the stations that are in question. Any in cities are suspect because of the false heat readings. This is just one example in thousands that are being questioned. You can believe your government is honest. I don't believe them for a minute. Everything they do has a tax agenda attached.

    Why would they change from GW to CC if the weather data did not make them look stupid? So warmer or cooler it is all Man's fault. I ain't buying into the lies. Looks like the UN is backing down on their big climate summit plans also.
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,343
    "...Can you find the official climate thermometer.."

    OOH OOH OOH I can find it...that's it right there hanging over the burning tires. Gee, CO2 levels and soot are off the chart too. The end must be near for the polar bear.

    Send money. :P

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I enjoyed nosing around Watt's site a couple of weeks ago when you or someone linked to it. It's fun to read his posts and then, when you think the guy is Attila the Hun or something, you find out that he has a 10KW solar array on his house, a bunch of CFL’s and timer switches most of his lights.

    And he drives an electric car.

    He's sort of the Anti-Gore. :D
  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    One point of data among thousands does not invalidate the data.

    No, but if that one point passes the standard for what is acceptable as an environment where an official reading can be taken, it does say the standards are awful, and that there well might be many more like that. If you go in a restaurant and see 1 cockroach, you don't suspect there are more and other problems?
  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    I guess the next poll is going to show even lower percentages that GW is real and a problem.

    http://www.usatoday.com/weather/storms/winter/2009-10-29-autumn-snowstorm_N.htm

    Major snowstorms in the middle of the Fall season are certainly not an indicator that there is any warming, and that if there is warming, it is definitely NEEDED. The day when it is too warm to snow where I live, is the day I'll be happy. I would be thrilled if it never got below 32F in the Northeast (sorry skiiers and snowmobilers). A warmup to a nice 65-95F climate would be great.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    From your link

    "DENVER — A slow-moving autumn storm"

    Just a storm. Not climate change-related.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I'm with you. We are running about 15 degrees below normal. I would imagine Al Gore is sending his worshipers out with hair dryers to get the temps up to keep his momentum. Which has all but gotten covered by some of the earliest snow falls on record. We are likely headed for another Ice Age. So keep those SUVs and try to reverse the cooling trend. Probably too late to avoid the Big Freeze coming.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Oh, so it is just a storm when it goes in the face of global warming? When Katrina hit it was caused by GW because Bush did not sign Kyoto. And it was just a storm. A record cold summer and now a record cold fall has got to be figured into the picture. Or do the GW'ers just take those figures out of the equation?
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    We are running about 15 degrees below normal.

    I thought it was 85 there? I was just packing the car.... :shades:
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    No, it's "just a storm" when it's....wait for it...."JUST A STORM."

    Like I have stated before on this forum: neither every little COLD SNAP nor every little HEAT WAVE has anything AT ALL to do with Global Warming/Climate Change/Whatever The Current Nomenclature Is.

    Regardless of whether we EVER determine man's impact on global climate, these things are true:

    1. Storms, unusually hot and/or cold ones, will ALWAYS pop up at odd times.
    2. Every heat wave is not proof of anything.
    3. Every cold snap is not proof of anything.
    4. Every Category 5 hurricane is not IN ITSELF proof of anything.
    5. Every time BumFrick, Idaho, has a few day of below- or above-average temps, THAT in itself is proof of nothing.

    People who come on this board and are fond of posting "Record Low Temps in BLAH BLAH BLAH" and expecting that to score a point with anyone with a brain need to reconsider that tactic. It's old, worn-out, and NOT APPLICABLE.

    I usually post stories about hotter-than-normal temps in an area (weather, not climate) when someone posts about a colder-than-normal temp event, just to balance out the forum.

    Neither of us is making a valid point regarding Man-Made Climate Change when we do that.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    By the time you get here it will be back to our normal 80 degrees. And nothing man does will change it. Only the arrogance of man can believe we have anything to do with the weather or the climate.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Not exactly. This wasn't all that long ago:

    The Great Smog of London (BBC)

    In weather news, Daily High Temperature Tied Atop Grandfather Mountain (goblueridge.net). And it's still "markedly warmer" in North Florida.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Throwing coal in a furnace with no scrubbing is bad news. It has no place in urban areas. Any kind of large fossil fuel burning equipment in dense population will cause a negative impact. The alternative for those in London at the time was freezing to death. Quick death or prolonged death, take your pick, When I went to school near Chattanooga in 1973 I could not believe the black smoke and filthy buildings. It was all new to me coming from CA and AK. Building a coal fired generator out in the middle of Utah, Arizona or Nevada with reasonable scrubbers is still the most economical electric generation. Cap n Trade will make them more expensive and possibly shut them down.

    If the price of electricity and oil continues to rise I would expect more people to heat with wood and or coal. Pick your poison. I have gotten used to clean air since leaving Anchorage and all the wood smoke. I don't want to have the government push us back into the dark ages with their ignorance.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    '73? That's when I moved to Chattanooga. The foundries were getting cleaned up even then, and you wouldn't recognize downtown and the river front today.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I spent 7 weeks in Atlanta going to a Western Union school. I went up to buy antiques in Chattanooga several times. They did have some great Antique warehouses there. Shipped a truck load back to Anchorage and sold them. Just seemed like what I would picture London black and gloomy.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    Well shoot, if there is no relationship between global warming and weather, what is all the fuss about? Let's talk about baseball or something.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Yeah, I bet a lot of white ash and maple trees are dying because of global warming. Better tell the pros to join the rest of the leagues and move to aluminum bats. The ding of October is upon us. :D

    Funny thing, bamboo bats are hitting the market now too.

    You knew I'd find a link, right? A warmer climate means (in theory anyway) that more beetles that attack the ash trees, and the wood grows softer too.

    Baseball Bats and Global Warming (Accuweather)
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    There is a relationship, but it's not as cut and dried as some people try to make it.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,709
    that's funny, my boss and I went to Atlanta about a year ago to go to Sleep Medicine School there. Interesting information, the air seemed clean in Atlanta but man, I thought Seattle had a traffic problem!

    Cars and freeways and congestion at every turn. You know when the hotel shuttle drivers are taking quick, snappy, hurried shortcuts that you're in a large rat race.

    Wouldn't be interested in living there. And the amount of cars in that city is not doing anyone there any good. Long term. GW...from the car's exhaust...need full-scale attack of all-electric transportation there, pronto. :shades:

    Using electrical energy to keep them charged from one of Georgia's coal-powered electrical generation plants, no less. :cry:

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    The largest coal generator to be built in 25 years is going into Illinois. I thought Obama said NO MORE COAL? I still see the option to coal as freezing in the dark. We are still using over 50% of our electricity from Coal. Except in CA where we pay 34 cents per KWH to say we are clean. That in itself will kill the EV market for all but the uber wealthy here. Indiana has a lot of coal and coal generators. I did not think the air was bad. Probably cleaner than San Diego.

    PS
    I think you are getting spoiled out there in Wilcox. I hate heavy traffic. I avoid at all cost.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,709
    what is the answer then for electric generation? Nuclear powered electrical generators? Like we have the money to build those though, right? Yeah, we're spoiled out here. I have a good paying job and my wife works at the same hospital. Both putting 401K money away in preparation for retirement. Going to Tucson is not that bad traffic-wise.

    I must say the city of Tucson street planners have done a pretty good job designing their streets so that traffic moves continuously. Seattle traffic is horrible compared to a city of twice the people, Tucson.

    I don't know of any other automobile propulsion method that will work any better than electrical, though hydrogen is an option with only water as a byproduct. But how to develop those other methods efficiently and cost-effectively is going to be a real problem.

    We need to wean off of dino-oil, though. Seems Portland and San Francisco are in a war right now to build the best all-electrical car infrastructure. Portland's mayor is literally on fire with excitement for electric propulsion. Portland is always progressively thinking, they're going ga-ga over it. :D

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I agree that EVs are a good way to go. Centralize the pollution from whatever form of electrical generation. I just remember 10 years ago when our Costco had two 440 Volt charging stations for the EV-1 from GM. I don't ever remember seeing one use them. They were very expensive systems that would charge up the batteries while you shop. The key is knowing what to gear up for. It would be easy to put in 110/220 volt CC operated stations for charging. The wait time is not short. The Tesla S will have a 440 V charging system when and if it arrives in 2011. Still not sure how many folks would sit in a gas station 45 minutes waiting for their car to charge. That would be a long time for me to shop at Costco.

    My biggest concern is practicality. That always wins out in my search for a vehicle. I have it figured that CA and the Feds will bugger it up some way or another. They will not be denied their gas taxes without a fight. They want to look green without losing any green. The little guy always gets to sacrifice while the elite cruise in their yachts, Gulfstreams and limos.

    PS
    Seattle traffic may be worse than Los Angeles. Both cesspools of the urban age.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    This one can be blamed on man for sure.

    Beijing's first snow of season 'artificially induced'

    BEIJING (AFP) - – Chinese meteorologists covered Beijing in snow Sunday after seeding clouds to bring winter weather to the capital in an effort to combat a lingering drought, state media reported.

    The unusually early snow blanketed the capital from Sunday morning and kept falling for half the day, helped by temperatures as low as minus 2 Celsius (29 Fahrenheit) and strong winds from the north, Xinhua news agency reported.

    Besides falling in the northeastern provinces of Liaoning and Jilin and the northern province of Hebei, the eastern port city of Tianjin also got its first snow of the autumn, the report said.

    "We wont miss any opportunity of artificial precipitation since Beijing is suffering from the lingering drought," the report quoted Zhang Qiang, head of the Beijing Weather Modification Office, as saying.

    Chinese meteorologists have for years sought to make rain by injecting special chemicals into clouds.

    Although the technique often gets results, a drought in the north of the country has continued for over a decade.


    http://ph.news.yahoo.com/afp/20091101/tap-china-weather-beijing-snow-8d4ea94.htm- l
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Start with a $2 million dollar modest home in San Diego and start spending from there. Here is the best example I know of here in San Diego. Dr. Rob Wilder's solar home complete with Tesla Roadster. He also manages a fund that specializes in alternative energy companies. I wonder if he would be interested in buying several 1000 shares in failed alternative energy companies? My advice would be to keep his high paying job at UCSD.

    http://www.teslamotors.com/blog5/?p=48

    http://www.wildershares.com/pdf/Solar%20Power%20for%20a%20better%20Solution.pdf
This discussion has been closed.

Your Privacy

By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our Visitor Agreement.