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Comments
It is hard to mine coal without digging a hole.
Congress is directly responsible for the Exxon Valdez, yet they got off scott free. They changed the rules on double hulled tankers to satisfy those giving them money. The Coast guard dropped the ball as well as the crew. Only Exxon was required to pay the cleanup bill.
California has it all over Texas, at least for air pollution. (The most polluted places in the US) (Helium.com)
Only Exxon was required to pay the cleanup bill. I don't think that's exactly true either (not to mention you're assuming it's cleaned up, but it's not - MSNBC).
What I would like to see with all that gloom and doom GW BS is a relative study back to 1970s. How does the air quality compare to say 1972? When I flew down from AK to LA for my Grandmother's funeral the air was so bad It hurt my lungs to breathe. In the 1960s and 70s California was always covered with a brown haze. Same time period I spent 13 weeks in Johnson City TN. The air in Chattanooga was absolutely black from all the coal furnaces and power generation. Today it gets rave reviews as a great place to live.
Maybe we don't want to go back to the 1990 levels when we had high sulfur diesel in all the trucks, ships, planes and trains. Get those last three on ULSD and take readings in places like LA. My take is people making a living on the environment are just looking for ways to prolong their jobs. We could save billions by dumping a lot of dead weight in those fields alone. Make em get a real job instead of bankrupting America as they are trying to do.
Pick your poison - Houston made #5 for the worst ozone.
I moved to Chattanooga in '73 and lived there for 3 years, and my mom and brother followed me there and are still there. One of the big foundries was still going when I was there but it didn't last too many more years. Way outdated technology.
All that industrial area near downtown (easy rail and barge access) is now a stadium and "clean" industry. The tannery was still going strong when I lived there dumping who knows what into the TN river (a guy I knew there was always giving me leather shoelaces :shades: ).
An old Anchorage friend is stopping by next month on her way to 'nooga. Going to move there for good - I think the downtown electric shuttle buses that run every 5 minutes was a big draw.
Interesting, the same bureaucracy you love to hate is largely responsible for the success you describe. Yes, the good old EPA.
Do you think all those companies would have voluntarily cleaned up their act? The answer is no.
A number of years ago I was in an enforcement program in another state. Often times we would actually get a thank you from the environmental manager for doing an enforcement action. Why? The environmental manager was unable to secure funds or do the right thing when it came to managing the hazardous waste.
Basic fact: most businesses are for profit. There is really nothing wrong with that except they will often try to cut the environmental program to save money. Somebody has to watch over them to make sure the job gets done. It doesn't happen by magic. As a general rule of thumb, 20% of the people/organizations are the problem. That is why we spend billions of dollars to track the idiots that think they should be able to do anything, anytime and anywhere regardless of the impact on anybody else.
Back then people recognized the problem with emissions using science and helped fix the problem with rules, permits and enforcement. The same process is going on today with GCC.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Getting your environmental info from that source is like watching FOX to see if taxes are too high.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
1) Average annual temperatures have not surpassed 1998 (NOAA) (University of Alabama)
2) Average annual temperatures are now trending downward since 1998 (NOAA) (University of Alabama)
3) Ocean temperatures have not risen since 2000 when the 3000 Argo buoys were launched. The buoys even show a slight decrease in ocean temperatures
4) The Arctic ice froze to February levels by December 07, there are 1mm more sq km than before (previous was 13mm sq km) They are now at 1979 levels.
5) The Arctic ice is 20cm thicker than "normal" (whatever that is)
6) All polar bear pods are stable or growing (NOAA/PBS)
7) Mount Kilimanjaro is not melting because of global warming, rather "sublimation"
8) The Antarctic is not "melting", it is growing in most places, the sloughing off at the edges is normal as the ice mass grows
9) The majority of the Antarctic is 8 degrees below "normal" (again, whatever that is)
10) The coveted .7 degree rise in temperatures over the last 100 years has been wiped out with last years below "normal" temperatures (NOAA coolest winter since 2001)
11) Al Gores film was deemed "propaganda" in a court of law in the UK as many points could not be substantiated by scientists
12) It was revealed that some of the footage in Al’s film was CGI. The ice shelf collapse was from the movie “The Day After Tomorrow” (ABC)
13) One of the scientists that originally thought that CO2 preceded the warming has now found with new data that the CO2 rise follows the warming (Dr David Evans)
14) August 2008 was the first time since 1913 there were no sun spots.
15) The Medieval Warm Period was warmer than the 20th century (no SUVs)
16) Many scientists are now predicting 30 years of cooling.
17) The greenhouse effect is real; but our small contribution to it cannot even be measured
18) Several publications, including those that are “warmist” have recently written that the “natural” cycles of the earth may “mask” AGW. Give me a break.
19) 31,000 scientist have signed a petition against AGW!
20) Dr Hansen, of NASA, has already been caught falsifying data twice. He has zero credibility and should not even be listened to.
21) NASA just released a report that it is “the sun” duh />>>>!!!!!!!!
"The planet’s ocean surface temperature was the warmest on record for July, breaking the previous high mark established in 1998 according to an analysis by NOAA’s National Climatic Data Center in Asheville, N.C. The combined average global land and ocean surface temperature for July 2009 ranked fifth-warmest since world-wide records began in 1880.
The combined global land and ocean surface temperature for July 2009 was the fifth warmest on record, at 1.03 degrees F (0.57 degree C) above the 20th century average of 60.4 degrees F (15.8 degrees C).
The global ocean surface temperature for July 2009 was the warmest on record, 1.06 degrees F (0.59 degree C) above the 20th century average of 61.5 degrees F (16.4 degrees C). This broke the previous July record set in 1998. The July ocean surface temperature departure of 1.06 degrees F from the long-term average equals last month’s value, which was also a record.
The global land surface temperature for July 2009 was 0.92 degree F (0.51 degree C) above the 20th century average of 57.8 degrees F (14.3 degree C), and tied with 2003 as the ninth-warmest July on record."
http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2009/20090814_julyglobalstats.html (NOAA)
In the follow the money category, "a study done last year by Ernst & Young says climate change is the number one strategic risk currently facing the insurance industry. That's partly because climate change causes an increase in the frequency and intensity of storms.
The 10 most expensive natural catastrophes in U.S. history have all occurred within the last 20 years. Hurricanes and other severe weather have cost insurers nearly a quarter of a trillion dollars in the last decade."
Insurance Companies May Add Climate Change To Coverage Costs (oh gee, it's from FoxNews - must be a lie... :P )
This puts a damper on that for the moment....:)
The only question is WHY?
And much much more. !!
I really don't think there is much disagreement that so called GW/GC is and has been happening for literally BILLIONS of years. Winter,Spring, Summer, and FALL occur with almost startling regularity. People or cultures who do not acknowledge this are not on the food chain for very longl !? Why the GW ists want to vilify people who do not subscribe with an almost cult like religiousity is understandable one one hand and fathomless on the other.
Alas it has LONG been NOT enough to sound the alarm. EVERYONE ,( with the exception of folks Gagrice talks about in a prior post) is still in the "crowded theater" so to speak.
That's just like saying that the 10 highest box-office movies have all been made in the last 20 years. Does that mean they were the best movies ever or that the highest percentage ever went to see those movies? No. Why? Because a simple statement like that does not point out that ticket-prices have increased many times, and the population is much larger. Somebody's trying to use a fact, to create a false conclusion that natural catastrophes are now somehow more severe.
Using similar logic I'm declaring that the worst loss-of-life due to GW was the shearing of icebergs from the Arctic in 1912. Yes even then manmade-GW was killing people like the guests on the Titantic.
Clinton WANTED "global warming" to be on the agenda. If anything, he wanted them to lie about it if they found otherwise.
The opposite for GWB: he denied it for most of his time. He did NOT want "human-caused" global warming to be a proven fact.
The warming trend did not "go away" when GWB took office.
Sorry steve, you usually come up with good arguments but I have to call BS on you again for that one.
Just off the top of my bald head I can think of several reason why your statement could be true in the absence of GW. Like maybe there are more people living in these disaster prone areas now.
To be fair, a previous poster said that the polar bears were doing fine. I would have to dispute that since I saw a WWF commercial with Noah Willey that showed polar bears drowning (well they were swimming but Noah said they were drowning so I just assumed that they drowned later.) :P
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Today's bear news from the always reliable Times of India:
"This spring was interesting for Derocher and his team. Compared to the last two years, there was more sea-ice and it looked superficially more like it did 25 years ago when Derocher first went there. The big difference was that the ice was not as thick as it used to be. The Arctic is on track to be very close to the lowest level of sea ice seen (2007 was the minimum). "We found a fair number of bears although many were not in very good body condition. We didn't see many seal kills and I suspect that the bears were having a hard time catching seals," he adds."
The bear necessities
This paragraph is a perfect example of the kind of "evidence" used by the GW acolytes. The reason recent storms are more costly is that there is more coastal development every year thus more property to damage! What was the population of Florida 20 years ago? Don't forget inflation.
The media is now stirring the pot by naming every strong breeze that appears in the south Atlantic. I'm waiting for hurricane Al....oh wait, he's already here.
Regards, DQ
The 10 most expensive list was also adjusted for inflation as of 2008.
2008 Natural Catastrophe Review (pdf file)
It would be really difficult to spin that into any kind of data claiming man made Global warming was a cause. The most costly disasters in lives where climate could be a factor happened long before the automobile was invented. After all that is the terrorist tactic used by GW activists to get their legislation passed.
Japan, 1181
A famine wipes out at least 100,000 people.
Netherlands, 1228
Estimate: 100,000 lives lost from the flooding after some dykes broke.
Netherlands, 1287
The Zuider Zee flooded after a seawall callapsed. At least 50,000 people were killed in Holland and more than 500 in England as a result.
China, 1642
Flooding takes about 300,000 lives.
India, 1769
About ten million people lost their lives from a famine in Bengal.
China, 1887
The worst flood in "modern history" happened in China in 1887. The Yellow River overflowed, causing the death of about 900,000 people. (Some reports say it was a million that parished.)
http://across.co.nz/WorldsWorstDisasters.html
Our piddly little hurricanes are not even on the list. Inconsequential in loss of lives. And as pointed out, costly in dollars because of ignorant building standards in the USA. You build in the path of hurricanes your going to suffer damage.
I was looking at a lake home in central Florida a few years back. I did not buy because it was tough to get reasonable insurance. It was a long way from the coast.
Well, the point was that insurance companies are adding global warming risks to their actuarial formulas so they'll have enough reserves to pay future claims.
That means higher premiums for us.
It's somewhat akin to the Pentagon spending more money on figuring out scenarios for dealing with conflicts caused by climate change.
People can deny that anything is happening, but there's two big honking organizations with money and lives at stake that are studying the data and are indeed planning for it.
CA state, despite GLARING and enormously COSTLY infrastructure deficiencies, water supplies, sewer treatment, electrical grid, (no identified sources for natural gas, given that ALL power plants have been mandated, aka required to run off....nat gas) to name a few, does not want to upgrade to handle current to REDUCING population levels, but they want to up grade to allow for ....MUCH MORE GROWTH !!!??? I am sure this revelation comes as a HUGE surprise??!!
Where are the areas slated for THE most growth? Let's see.... those areas that are THE most prone to fire storms, flooding and earthquake, etc.???
To keep the hypocrisy under wraps, massive growth is euphemistically referred to as "SMART" !!!???
Well, that's pretty much the whole state.
So that is a part of this whole picture of cutting GHG. You cannot add more people and expect them to walk to work and not exhale CO2.
Mexican drug smugglers tied to California fire
If nobody reads the article, the upshot is the MJ growers are growing on FEDERAL LAND !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That's happening pretty much everywhere.
They aren't lowering the mill rates though - just the opposite.
More on the Pentagon angle:
"Proponents of climate change legislation have now settled on a new strategy: warning that global warming poses a serious threat to national security. Climate- induced crises like drought, starvation, disease and mass migration, they argue, could unleash regional conflicts and draw in America’s armed forces, either to help keep the peace or to defend allies or supply routes."
NY Times editorial
Hate to break the news on the Pentagon angle, but that is/has been SOP (standard operating procedure) !!?? It has been so for at least 40 years that I am familiar with. (even PRE Vietnam ERA) Unfortunately, CIA and Pentagon assessments did not tip the scales in our favor !! :lemon: They also did not explain the mechanisms and dynamics to how we turned from absolute certain global freeze outs to the current rage (scary movie) of global warming....... :lemon:
The CIA has done yearly assessments since WAY before General Colin Powell was a foot soldier. In fact when global cooling was all the rage, policy study was almost mandatory, literally at the foot soldier level. I see mandatory reading and mantra ing Mao's little red book. They were not known as global cool a cists at that time.
What is coming up on the (Capital) HILL, massive new appropriations????
Weren't the boys in the CIA and Pentagon also sure that Saddam had WMD all-over Iraq?
Maybe these guys have a vested interest in scare-scenarios, like increasing their influence, power and bureaucracy?
My tax assessments has not only stayed the same but we were given a special assessment to cover $18 million that went missing at the town landfill. It was of course blamed on the "previous administration". It's been over a year and nobody has been charged. What a surprise.
I'm sure they'll do a better job with billions of C&T money.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/20447095/detail.html
I got charged by a ~40 pound idiot yearling black bear in Yosemite a couple of weeks ago. On a paved nature trail practically in view of the road no less. Durn bears - that's the one thing I don't miss about living in AK.
He probably mistook you for a liberal and figured you wouldn't be packin'. :P
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Looks like our global warming days are over !! I wonder what the next money grab imaginary threat will be, some sort of tax on breathing? :sick:
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
I was so busy reading Left Wing mag I missed that one. :P
I have stocked up on C&H so that my hummingbirds and Orioles don't starve. Quite frankly Africa needs to get their collective acts together. We have gone in and shown them how to be productive and all they do is steal from the poor and buy guns to kill each other.
About the time of the last natural warming in the 13th century there were plagues that killed millions of people. Maybe that is where the world is headed with HIV & swine flu. If a couple billion die that should make the GW wonks happy. GHG problem solved. :sick:
PS
Our mill rate stayed the same. We still have prop 13 to keep them in line. Though all our other taxes more than make up for it.
How about an 1100 lb grizzly in your camp digging in the trash can? Or blocking the entrance with two little cubs. There was never a shortage of bears either Grizzly or Polar bears. The big white ones stayed out on the ice most of the time.
So you want to climb the tower and swing the MW Dish???
Except when they were hungry..27 polar bears cleaning a whale carcass.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Sadly fish and game killed our two cubs that kept climbing on the tower. At the time there was 47 grizzlies in an area that could only support 3 naturally. They did haul about a dozen down to the Brooks Range and release them. Just like bald eagles most of the bears near people become garbage feeders. Fences and covers did not help much. They were entertaining. I have hundreds of photos.
But how will you charge it when they shut down all the coal plants? Might take a long time if you have to make do by rubbing your feet on the carpet to generate your power.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460