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Comments
I still think that if Corolla and Camry weren't built here, and stayed Japanese like they used to be, the few problems they do have would be nonexistent. But, that's just me.
It's the sheer volume. In some cases a high demand car means 3 daily shifts, with assembly lines running 24 hours a day. Something has to give.
raremark, "Toyota Camry Hybrid Owners Problems & Solutions" #182, 21 Aug 2007 6:11 am
Well, unfortunately my saga has continued....the car has been in 3 times with the same problem--it will not start, the warning lights illuminate and it says the door is open (and it is not). They have replaced HVS electronic control unit in July and today I have picked it up (after being without the car for 12 days) and they replaced the main body ecm--as a "good will gesture". I am very frustrated and am submitting paperwork to the Ca Dispute Settlement Program--I'm done with this car.
See the awesomeness
Camry owner says "car is fully loaded and great":
I love what you do for me
Camry owner "loving this car so far":
Nary a glitch here
TCH owner says "Wow, this is a great car!"
Awesome!!!
TCH owner calls cars "better than the Lexus I had before":
Go Go Hybrid !!!
You see? Posting links of people who love their TCH is just as pointless as posting one or two or ten dissatisfied customers.
Why don't we wait and see the FINAL OUTCOME of that gentleman's situation before we declare "further erosion" of anything?
I can find plenty, probably hundreds of new car postings from people who have been unhappy with their new cars and have had to take them back to the dealer multiple times.
Pointing out one or two bad apples in a bunch does not make the whole bunch bad.
I imagine the outcome of this customer is a LEMON refund in full. I have not had a vehicle in the shop more than 2 days since I bought a new 1978 Honda Accord. 12 days and you say we should wait to see the outcome. I wonder if it was your TCH in the shop that long how pleased you would be with Toyota.
If I had a new car at a Toyota dealership getting repaired for 12 days, I would:
1. be enjoying my rental car,
2. my kids would be excited to have a different car for a few days,
3. allow Toyota to get the car fixed properly and not bi*ch at them the whole time,
4. understand that EVERY CARMAKER has a problem car now and again,
5. not start a 40+ year grudge against them.
And no, the title of this forum is NOT "Pointing out qaulity issues with the latest Toyota has to offer" at all.
And the title also is also not "post everything bad about any Toyota vehicle that you read about right here."
It is discussing YES or NO in regard to if these "supposed recent quality problems" (even if they truly exist as a category of their own AT ALL which I don't believe) are just a "glitch" in their otherwise sterling reputation as a quality car builder.
This has not been the only complaint that Toyota vehicles crapped out and the dealer did not provide a loaner. I think they know if will take a week or longer to get the parts from Japan and they don't want to be stuck with a rental charge.
If Toyota wants to maintain a reputation for reliability they need to spend some of the $10 billion on QC and customer service training. Stashing it all in the Bank of Japan does little for the issues at hand.
So my answer is "NO", I don't think this is a glitch. I think it is a major meltdown by Toyota. I think we have more than just one difference.
2. There have been far, FAR more "supposedly LUCKY" TCH owners than there have been unlucky ones.
3. Toyota normally does not provide a loaner. Most non-luxury carmakers do not provide that service. Very few do.
4. Cars non built in the USA normally have a little longer wait for parts - it has ALWAYS and will ALWAYS be that way. If you buy a foreign-built car, expect and accept that fact.
5. Major Meltdown. That's a good one !! LOL!! ROFL !!!
1. Be cursing his rental car.
2. His kids would be afraid of his explosive temper and subject to his excessive profanity for days.
3. Harrass Chevroler to get the car fixed properly and bi*ch at them the whole time.
4. Profess that ONLY AMERICAN CARMAKERS have problem cars again and again.
5. Start a grudge against them that would last for generations.
To see that just visit any of the GM basher threads. Toyota is having to face reality. When they built simple appliance type cars they were riding on high reliability. Now with all the complexity, they are facing the same challenges all the other car makers have to face.
I just happen to think Toyota is better.
That doesn't mean the other guys are bad.
Too Bad Gary - you have to take the "they stuck him with a rental he has to pay for" off the Toyota Hater's checklist
LOL
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Thank you.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
To me they haven't even offered to pay for the rented car I had to use in order to get to work
raremark, "Toyota Camry Hybrid Owners Problems & Solutions" #182, 21 Aug 2007 6:11 am
I really hopping Toyota will slow down its growth and improve their quality.
It's a bit unfair, because owners can come here and whine, yet manufacturers cannot defend themselves due to privacy issues.
For all we know it's the same guy in the Real World Trade-in Values thread who got a Camry hybrid and felt buyer's remorse about the color, he could be making excuses or even going sabotage to trade his car for a different color. I've seen more than one Edmunds.com member settle with a manufacturer then suddenly they're the happiest owner in the whole thread.
I have a friend that works for Subaru and in one case the amount of information withheld by a whining customer was laughable. To this day I'd love to hear what he wasn't telling us, but alas, she respected his privacy and did not disclose what he did wrong.
And yes, I'm sure the same thing happens to many GM vehicles. I bet half or more of these problems are due to human error, most likely by the owner himself.
The only thing unfair is buying a car that has problems and getting the runaround from the dealer and MFG. I have no idea what privacy you are talking about. This is not a doctor/patient or attorney/client relationship. I see representatives on Edmund's all the time adding their spin to various issues that owners face. Most of the time making excuses for the cars they sell.
In the case we are discussing two people had the same problem with a 2007 Camry. Another poster tried to say how much fun it would be to have a rental car for the 12 days their car was in the shop. I find that totally unrealistic.
I know what it is like to have a dealer that could care less once they sell the car. I bought a new 1973 Subaru. Within 3 months it had a leaking head gasket. The dealer said it would be 9 weeks before they could get it into the shop. I ended up doing the work myself. Subaru would not even pay for the new gaskets. I had no recourse as the dealer was a gangster and Subaru would not help because I did the work myself.
You can make excuses for dealers and automkers all you like. I will be on the side of the consumer.
You probably heard a general comment from a dealership employee, but not the specifics of one case.
Let's go to an example, though. How many Check-Engine Lights do you think are due to the owner not tightening the gas cap properly? Half? Probably more than half?
People come to these boards to vent about check-engine lights and how "unreliable" their cars are. Do you honestly think they come back to say "oops I'm a doofus and it was my fault after all"?
On the issue of loaners and Subaru, by coincidence our Legacy wagon had a non-linear throttle, so we took it in. The dealer gave us a Mercedes Benz C240 4Matic loaner (I just asked for an AWD wagon). They proactively replaced the entire throttle linkage.
We were kind of bummed that they did this in just 1 day. We'd have been happy to keep the Benz for a few more days. :shades:
Not all dealers are the same, and certainly my experience is not the only positive one.
The customer is NOT always right, that must the be the most asinine myth in retail.
I'm not going to take sides, like you do, instead each case should be judged independently. Until we know exactly what went wrong with that Camry Hybrid we should not conclude it's the dealer's fault.
Now, let's please not go misquoting me. I said "my kids would think it was fun" having a rental car.
I only said I would not curse the dealer and scream from the highest mountaintop, "I'm never buying another car from () again !!!"
Here's a fact: Sometimes new cars have problems that take a few days to fix. Sometimes, those cars have problems that are not fixable.
That is not a good reason, let me repeat, NOT A GOOD REASON to write off that automaker forever and permanently in one's life.
If you stopped buying things from companies who did not make perfect items, at some point you would be forced into living on a deserted island somewhere.
BTW, did you guys see those man-made islands for sale in the middle east that were shaped like the world's continents?
As both yourself and larsb have posted defenses of the dealers and manufacturers, I have to conclude you feel the consumer is usually wrong. You both have made out the car owner's as stupid dolts that are incapable of tightening the gas cap. Not all engine lights are loose gas caps. Our Ford's were computer glitches brought on by fuel that the engine did not like. The Ford shop had a diagnostic computer that required a reset of the onboard computer to clear the "engine light".
I don't know about you. If I had a new car that kept having an engine light come on and all the dealer did was reset it and I was out the hour or two taking it in more than once to fix it, I would be on whatever site was available letting others know the car was not reliable.
Your unwavering devotion to the automakers is unbelievable. I would suspect that both of you were paid to come on here and spin every problem into owner error, if I did not believe that you are just fanatics for Toyota.
I wish I believed in any automaker on the planet. At this time I just don't believe any of them are good enough to own without an extended warranty. That is a sad indictment.
Newer cars have a light or a message appears on the IC saying gas cap loose.
No thats not true I had a 1998 Mazda 626 and I brought it in for a recall in 1998 and the dealer that I bought the Mazda from also sold and still sells Toyota well they were more Toyota's than Mazda's in that service garage in that dealership that day when I was there so don;t say that Toyota's vehicles back than didn't have their problems.
Gary, you did the work yourself why would Subie pay for the gaskets when you took the problem into your own hands and did the work yourself? Subie had no obligation to reimburse you for the headgaskets that you bought in my opinion.
You think vehicles are that problematic that you have to buy an extended warranty these days? I don;t know about that.
The other time was on my current Acura. A few years back, Honda had those issues with the V6 transmissions so when I bought the Acura, I figured it was a good piece of mind to buy it in case. Well, I've got almost 100k on it now and I have yet to use the warranty. Thought about it once when the Audio controls on the steering wheel were acting funky and when the rear wiper motor siezed (because the wife turned it on after a heavy ice storm) but I haven't because if I don't use it, then I get 100% of the cost back. It also makes a good bargaining chip at resale.
So, I don't find it necessary to spend the cake on a warranty that may never get used. Which is a good thing!
Please we are talking about Camry;s here I mean what is so complex about a Camry I mean Toyota has been building Camry;s for years.
On the flip side Toyota aren't reliable out of the box like they used to be in reference to first year of new generation bodystyles ala 02 and some 03 Camry having body integrity problems(sqeaking and rattling) and the 07 Camry;s problems. It just takes Toyota awhile to work out the bugs on new models because Toyota isn't selling just appliance cars anymore like you said before. Toyota offers a car in every single segment that you can offer a car in nowadays.
Cars go up in price every year I mean the sticker on my dads 93 Mitsu Eclipse was like 13K now an 2007 Eclipse is stickered at 19K-20K well equipped I mean prices on cars go up every year. Even Hyundai's have gone up in price in the past couple of years since they are not dirt cheap anymore.
Well it was that or be without a car for 9 weeks. It cost me a little over a hundred bucks for the gasket set. It cost Subaru and Continental Motors lot of bad publicity.
I guess you go along with some of the others here, thinking the dealers and automakers rather than the consumer should be given the benefit of the doubt. Sorry we just have to disagree.
Couldn;t Subie have paid for a rental car for you or something while Subi was waiting on your headgaskets to come in? As for 1973 and Subie and Continental Motors getting bad publicity I wasn't even around in 1973. I mean this was 1973 and you had a Japanese Car I'm sure back then I;m sure it was really really hard to get a part for a Japanese Car. I mean my Dad used to own his own rental car service in the late 80's and people who he lended out cars too they had Japanese Cars at the time that needed parts and they would have to wait for parts to come in in a few cases thus they had to rent a car from my Dad.
"I guess you are along with some of the others here, thinking the dealers and automakers rather than the consumer should be given the benefit of the doubt. Sorry we just have to disagree."
I;m not sideing with the dealer or the customer but you did the work yourself. I would have made Subie just reimburse me for my rental car if push came to shove.
I have to conclude you feel the consumer is usually wrong
I didn't say that, in fact I specifically said we have to wait and see what the final resolution is before we make any conclusions. You are jumping to conclusions, that's up to you, but don't assume that I do the same thing. We don't know either way.
you are just fanatics for Toyota
Actually I founded the Subaru Crew. Get it straight, man!
cooterbfd wrote:
Newer cars have a light or a message appears on the IC saying gas cap loose
Proof that the automakers felt this happened often enough that it was worth investing in this improvement. They would not spend the money for nothing.
Another one is the Maintenance Reminder, a light that comes on to remind you to change the oil.
Sadly, yes, it was necessary. At the very least worth the investment to add that feature.
lemko wrote:
a man who was cussing up a storm because the lower grille on the front of his new Camry kept popping out
Again, that's jumping to conclusions. What was wrong with it?
For all we know that man slammed the hood with a wrench on the grille and broke it himself. We don't know why it broke. I seriously doubt a grille would fall out all by itself given there are probably 4 to 6 fasteners for it. Surely that is human error.
Or do you actually believe all 6 fasteneres failed by themselves? Seriously, gimme a break! :P
Either that, or suffer bad publicity for trying to gouge a customer 40-50 bucks to read the code, and tighten the cap.
In your opinion. If you ask me, I think Toyota had pretty much caught up by the early 70s with their Corolla, Corona, pickup, and Land Cruiser lines.
I was at the Henry Ford Museum today in Dearborn and both a 1966 Corona sedan and 1983 Accord sedan (the very first one built in Ohio) were on display -- interesting in that I saw NO Mustangs or Falcons -- but there was an '81 Escort. Go figure!
Toyota first came to the U.S. in 1957 via the Toyopet Crown - a car that looked like a 5/8 scale 1954 Plymouth. They couldn't keep up with American highway speeds as valves snapped-off and transmissions siezed. They left the market in 1959 and returned in 1961. I'd say their first big success in our market was the 1965 Corolla.
No thats not true I had a 1998 Mazda 626 and I brought it in for a recall in 1998 and the dealer that I bought the Mazda from also sold and still sells Toyota well they were more Toyota's than Mazda's in that service garage in that dealership that day when I was there so don;t say that Toyota's vehicles back than didn't have their problems.""
I will bet dollars to donuts that dealership sold at least five Toyotas for every one Mazda, so it only stands to reason that on the service side there would be at least five Toyotas in for every one Mazda...and remember, most of the cars in a dealer's service garage are there for routine maintenance, not repair.
I generally agree with the sentiments expressed: Toyotas were over-engineered until the mid-90s, when Toyota's massive cost-cutting campaign got its full head of steam. I don't expect today's Toyotas to have the incredible longevity of the 80s and (some) 90s Toyotas, but I do hope Toyota can regain its footing as far as (iron-clad in my experience) reliability out to the 150K mileage point. Using the customers to beta test the new models is NOT the Toyota way, and they know that.
But I do also think a lot of the recent "issues" have been overblown in reports, starting with the Camry transmission thing, which affected a few hundred cars and required only a programming tweak. The kind of stuff that Toyota is deservedly ashamed of IMO include not one but TWO recalls for steering knuckles for the Tundra, affecting hundreds of thousands of vehicles when all was said and done, and the problems with the steering in the Echos and Priuses, which also affected more than a quarter million cars worldwide. Are these types of quality problems just "glitches"? Time will tell, but I'm glad that Toyota is screeching to a halt (or at least executing a massive slowdown) in the rollout of new models, to get quality problems back under control.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
How do you know that? Have you counted the number of cars by contacting all owners of 2007 Camrys? Or a random survey might be adequate if it asks the right questions to get info from the owners who don't realize the shift/lag they experience is normal and think their car is okay.
>programming tweak
Has that actually cured it for both 4 cyl and 6 cyl? for being a simple programming tweak it sure took a long time to show up and be implemented? I think wwest has it nailed.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
A decade later or so the Accord became the best selling car.
Actually lemko, the Corona came before the Corolla in the US market: 1966 Corona vs. 1969 Corolla (as I recall).
Never thought about the Ford family's grudge against Iacocca. Amazing to be in this fabulous museum with no Mustang in sight.
It's absurd to have a Ford museum without it's most important model from the 2nd half of the decade.
In the 1970s, people weren't comparing a Corolla or a Corona to an Impala or a Cutlass Supreme. Detroit's intermediates and full-size cars - at least the ones built in the early and mid-1970s - lasted longer and were more immune to rust.
The Toyotas did have better workmanship, but this is not the same as better reliability.
People did compare the Japanese competition to the Vega and the Pinto, and there it was no contest. From that solid base, Toyota and Honda grew, and the rest is history.
Or maybe someone can shed some light on this statement:
Even Toyota, which has been growing rapidly in North America and recently surpassed Ford at No. 2 on the U.S. sales list, expects that its sales in the region will be about flat for the remainder of 2007. Carter said the company has seen a falloff in traffic at its dealerships, particularly because of ongoing problems in the California market.
Toyota losing sales?
Sales at Ford Motor Co. (F), Toyota Motor Corp. (TM) and Chrysler all showed declines, as housing market woes, high fuel prices and financial market volatility take a toll on consumer sentiment.
You are slipping....
It can't be easy to buy a new car when you can no longer keep up with your mortgage payments.
Maybe GM is just building better vehicles. That is a possibility. Though not much out there impresses me from any auto maker.